Guild Wars 2

I don’t think there is much to say.

We are the only class without a condi spec trying to cut it in this condi meta….and failing miserably

We used to counter condi specs, but not anymore
SPVP is severely nerfed. We can no longer fight on point or in team fights
Pve we have pathetic dps and no real purpose or reason to bring in a raid. For the first time since this patch I no longer felt compelled to play a guard in raid anymore (I have 460 LI so I raid regularly )
DH was massively nerfed in wvw as well. Making long bow worthless and forcing me off virtues

This patch is just said. It pushed our class off 2 game modes and it DID NOT FIZ any prevalent problems, like spirit weapons

I just don’t understand how they can handle guardian so terribly.

Like, ok, you want to nerf True Shot again for the 3th time, sure, but allow us to move while channeling it as a counterbuff.

Just a small example, it doesn’t take much to throw a few perks here and there.

Buff Guardians or Riot!!

It’s sad when the viability of a class all but disappears. Guardian/DH is a very fun class/spec, it makes me wonder what ANet has in store for the class, because right now, we are bottom-barrel, we don’t offer enough of anything really (DPS/Buffs/Support/Utility) to be considered for anything, and are currently seen as a anchor around group’s throats in most if not all content.

They need to increase our base-dps on most weapon setups, the skills that have had their effectiveness nerfed, need a counter nerf to level out the restrictions put on them. Because at the moment, what makes us dragon hunters, has been ground down to dust, and we’d be lucky to hunt dragon flies right now.

Odokuro.5049:

We’d be lucky to hunt dragon flies right now.

Dragonflies. You reading this Karl?

Can I get Irenio on Guardian please? He turned Ranger/Druid from a selfish class to the ultimate support, while the exact opposite happened to Guardian.

I wish I could say that I saw this coming and tried to tell people we had very little to offer to group play, oh wait, I did. I was told by dozens of people that guardian was in a great place and didn’t need any mechanics to distinguish themselves in groups. So as much as I love guardian, we’ve screwed ourselves by being compaciant.

The sad thing is that any buffs to Guardian’s supportive aspects will come solely through the next elite spec and people will be too focused on the shiny new toys to care.

To be honest, most of the nerfs they did to guard were aimed at pvp. In pvp, it honestly didn’t get less competitive in a non esl level since pretty much everything except rev got nerfed in some way. As far as pve raids are concerned, the problem there is that other classes got indirect buffs to their dps and dh got none, leaving it behind, but it didn’t get nerfed because dh didn’t run lb in raids. In wvw, well there i don’t know but i presumed dh were just running stab there and that’s it.

Did you just assume my character’s tier?

I admit the nerf to pvp/wvw guard were harsh but we were in a good place so I guess it would be unfair to think we can only go up. For the most part in pve we were untouched, we still do the dps we were doing before. The OP is right however, our burn build does not stack up to other classes condi spec and since condi is the new meta guard needs some love there.

As someone said earlier make us a true support spec with adequate dps like the druid or give us selfish high dps specs. As of right now there is no reason to bring a guardian to a raid or high lvl fractals with druids and mesmers in the meta.

Hanth.2978:

As someone said earlier make us a true support spec with adequate dps like the druid or give us selfish high dps specs. As of right now there is no reason to bring a guardian to a raid or high lvl fractals with druids and mesmers in the meta.

well i know every game have buffs and nerfs over time and some classes are fotm based on buffs they take, but honestly, to keep you out of raiding or high lvl fractals is a little bit unacceptable to me and happens only in gw2.
I just never see that in any other game that i ve played, and i m not talking for the retaliation problem that guard had.
In general in gw2 if you re not in the “so called meta” you re forced to just roaming in pve maps or wvw just for fun cause even in some dungeons they dont want you at all….
I’m so dissapointed of this method, and anet have full responsibility for this, cause of failed class balance.

It’s not even our viability I’m mad at. It’s the absolute travesty of letting guardian, that was touted as the support more than any other class, became the selfish class that it is today. And not only that, it doesn’t even do it right, because it exchanged support for mediocre dps.

Kuya.6495:

To be honest, most of the nerfs they did to guard were aimed at pvp. In pvp, it honestly didn’t get less competitive in a non esl level since pretty much everything except rev got nerfed in some way. As far as pve raids are concerned, the problem there is that other classes got indirect buffs to their dps and dh got none, leaving it behind, but it didn’t get nerfed because dh didn’t run lb in raids. In wvw, well there i don’t know but i presumed dh were just running stab there and that’s it.

The other classes got some very direct buffs, with rev and ele being the most extreme examples. It’s pretty obvious they said “let’s give a condi build to those classes”.

Guard was already in need of buffs before the patch, and after it, everything else was buffed, putting us deeper in the dirt.

It would be appreciated for some sort of response from a dev or staff member, because Guardian/DH is NOT in a good spot right now, when a class/spec is seen as a trash-tier throwaway, no one wants them in groups for raids/fractals/dungeons ect. Then something has to be done, please, help us thrive again.

We need help, we need respectable DPS, and specs/utilities that are seen as an asset to a team and not a loss.

Odokuro.5049:

It would be appreciated for some sort of response from a dev or staff member, because Guardian/DH is NOT in a good spot right now, when a class/spec is seen as a trash-tier throwaway, no one wants them in groups for raids/fractals/dungeons ect. Then something has to be done, please, help us thrive again.

We need help, we need respectable DPS, and specs/utilities that are seen as an asset to a team and not a loss.

Something will be done, it’s called Firebrand. And worst of all, if Firebrand proves to be a good party player, most of the complaints here will be silenced, as if having a good spec on a trash class is anything more than a bandaid.

I wouldn’t really worry about condi because that seems to be where the new specialization is going. I also wouldn’t worry about pvp just yet. Where guard does need some adjustments is in pve raid scenarios. Either a dps buff or some added utility.

when i hit 800 damage on zerker bzerker and i have arround 2400 power…. and i get 2k+ auto atack on my armored guardian because im not playing a ded brain spam build….

i dont mind to be outplayed, but when people hit over 10k several times or burst me Textiletrough shelter or condi pressure my 30k hp(anti condi build) in a few seconds, where i can clean a condi per second while i have blocks….and i have alot of them…

And i cant defend not protect team, unless i play lame JI+trap spammer…. kill target before it lays eggs…

@Kuya.6495, if they increase damage on guardian/Dh expect other classes to get boosted, issue with guardian is that is a class that gets outdated way to fast, when Anet makes it on pair with other classes they end buffing some of the other classes all over again.

Anet is already awfull at skill balance do their skirtt gimmicks to look cool, more power creep would not be a good thing, power creep is already easilly achived.

As utilities, they reduced the CD on consecrations, ive been playing with them, they dont impact much on the game of the support, even WoR dont work since all Anet made necessary for WvW is AOE/cleave spam and that dont get reflected.

When a guardian buff happens mean other classes will receive better buffs… sooon.
When some idiot guardian uses Hallowed Ground while fithing full encro groups… and get a ton of fear and other condis that u barelly have time to cleanse….

Lots of sacrifices, class is good to kill bad players or leech from combat….

Use staff 1 and collect bags.

Junkpile.7439:

Use staff 1 and collect bags.

been doing that since release ^^

Maybe that’s what the balance team does. They are using their guardian once a year every Halloween to farm labyrinth and find the class to be in an excellent spot.

i dunno man im still doing fine with symbolic marauder DH since patch. Was using Longbow meditrapper build but moved to symbolic after the LB nerf.

Odokuro.5049:

It would be appreciated for some sort of response from a dev or staff member, because Guardian/DH is NOT in a good spot right now, when a class/spec is seen as a trash-tier throwaway, no one wants them in groups for raids/fractals/dungeons ect. Then something has to be done, please, help us thrive again.

We need help, we need respectable DPS, and specs/utilities that are seen as an asset to a team and not a loss.

I agree that Guardian damage needs to be brought higher in line with other classes if were not going to be able to buff like chrono’s and druids. We do push out about 30k dps though and with that kind of damage output we always find spots for them in our raids and fractals. Like qt and others before have said, don’t play with class kittens. Every class if played correctly has the goods to down any boss in any encounter in the time allowed.

isnt DPS, damage per second???… 30k per second… yeah right. :}

Saiyan.1704:

Odokuro.5049:

We’d be lucky to hunt dragon flies right now.

Dragonflies. You reading this Karl?

I doubt it. The thief forum takes up the whole of lunch time!

Aeolus.3615:

isnt DPS, damage per second???… 30k per second… yeah right. :}

29.3k, to be precise. I think it’s fair to call that 30k :P

CptAurellian.9537:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt DPS, damage per second???… 30k per second… yeah right. :}

29.3k, to be precise. I think it’s fair to call that 30k :P

on small hitboxes.
On large we re at 34.6

Ah, right. I always tend to ignore large hitboxes.

dps is good.
Problem is…let’s say lfg…

It’s more than lfg, it’s an attitude thing among large parts of the GW2 community when classes that are less than 20% below the golem’s No. 1 class are regarded as “trash tier”. I can’t remember the good old WoW times being that extreme (no clue what it looks like today) and I definitely know that the Wildstar community wasn’t that ridiculous. Wildstar raids were at least an order of magnitude harder than the ones in this game, btw.

I believe our problem is that guardians is that we don’t terribly have much to offer that someone else doesn’t offer better. We don’t top dps. We have crap for buffs minus aegis, and people shouldn’t be getting hit anyways. If they do, druids have more than enough heals. Our heals are mediocre. We could tank, but there are better choices. Same with kiting, roaming, etc. We simply need something unique to offer or at least something more significant. Perhaps a change to aegis.

we just need a dps buff and be less selfish and we will be ok

Seteruss.4058:

we just need a dps buff and be less selfish and we will be ok

As a dps spot.

Because if guardian is to perform in any other role, we need heavy buffs and/or a broken elite spec.

Seteruss.4058:

dps is good.
Problem is…let’s say lfg…

^^This. Ignore LFG and find a guild that raids. Once you get to know your new guild and they get to know you it’s not a problem. Among friends 30k guards/rev’s etc are welcome, most important thing is just learn the mechanics.

Hanth.2978:

Seteruss.4058:

dps is good.
Problem is…let’s say lfg…

^^This. Ignore LFG and find a guild that raids. Once you get to know your new guild and they get to know you it’s not a problem. Among friends 30k guards/rev’s etc are welcome, most important thing is just learn the mechanics.

Agree on that.
But many guilds may ask you to roll a condi build on some alts or something.
Not happening at mine but i know some situations..

No, lfg is not the problem. Nobody owes you a favour to carry you. Of course you can get in a guild and weight them down, but that doesn’t mean the class needs to remain in a terrible state.

Wait, a bit confused here as I haven’t ran into this issue people seem to be having. Are you Guardians actually being denied spots in groups for high level fractals and raids, or are you just saying this is going to happen because you feel Guardian sucks now? I haven’t seen any “No Guardians” lfg posts and haven’t had any troubles getting in a PvE group, so I’m just curious if this is actually happening to anyone right now.

Also, in WvW aren’t Guardians still part of the zerg meta? Didn’t think they were ever part of the roaming meta, so not sure why people are upset over that. Not to mention, it’s not unusual at all for a class to be meta in WvW zerg but not roaming, and vise versa.

As for PvP, still not seeing this condi meta everyone is swearing exists. Also still not having issues with condi builds. Been playing Symbolic DH since last season (never liked Medi Trapper) so I am still new to Guardians, but I still have condi clear for days and I can still do great in matches (granted we’re in the off-season). Maybe it’s just because I played Necro/Engi/Ranger before coming to Guard and I never got into the whole Medi Trapper meta, but I just don’t see the issue in PvP right now. The class still seems to perform great.

I would prefer if in terms of pve raiding, they would buff base guardian’s defensive contributions. More means of damage reduction and mitigation that don’t buff guardians in pvp and wvw.

I really don’t want them to just do a dps buff.

I really don’t care for small hitboxes thing, cause everywere else we’re good.
I know in past we had some troubles with retal at fracts but no more , and if they add that condi thing in expac, build diversity will be absolutely fine .
I can’t change my main class nor i don’t want. I have already a rev a ranger an engi and a necro all full to asc and all have (except ranger) map completion and everything , but i ’ m stuck to guardian for good.

oT posts optimal builds and rotations as far as they can figure out (which, not to try and diminish them, is pretty quality).

However, and despite oT giving a small blurb that evidently wasn’t well read, every class can deal viable dps. Viable dps is a much lower number than optimal dps, because if you truly wanted optimal dps there wouldn’t be a discussion about which classes you should take, the highest numbers can easily be seen.

Viable is a relative thing, because we are not talking about a single boss and not every group goes for a speed run.

The thing is, though, the only reason to take guardian as it is, is because you can’t be bothered to wait for another class. It’s not like there’s any shortage of dps players, and guardian is not the optimal choice. So, while you will find groups to play with, even on lfg, and fractals are a lot more casual, that doesn’t mean for one second that guardian is not underperforming.

And they are underperforming with a power dps spec, which is the biggest crime here. We got shafted hard with HoT, we practically didn’t get an elite spec. The bow was nerfed to uselessness even for the game modes it was used in, because it was barely ever used in pve to begin with. And with our elite spec, we can’t compete with the dps of base classes, classes that got great elite specs on top of it.

How is guardian not bad compared to ranger that does more dps than DH as base and has an amazing support spec? How is DH not bad compared to Tempest that is supposed to be a support spec and is the best healer in the game, but also does the most dps in both power and condi?

Saying that guardian can still get in groups doesn’t make it better. The class has problems and needs dev attention. But when other classes were getting new skills and traits, we got signet buffs among an ocean of nerfs.

RabbitUp.8294, power creep, other classes are better at the onlu thing that matters in the game, DPS, beign Guardian a defensive gameplay with will conflict a bit with the DH, so players have to relly on 2 traps gimmickness with power creep momments. plus meditations.

AWFULL SKILL design was another factor for the DH… still DH migth be awfull or even guardian due the gimmicks superiority of other classes that can be tanky and do a alot of output damage…
But that is what this game is about so Anet will never balance the game like some mmo companies try to balance theirs, all players need to play is what is more effortless to play, this is Anet mentality of strategie and metas.

As far as suggestions are concerned, i think as a start, anet should consider making strength in numbers a 10% reduction in all forms of damage for party members in range, and Protector’s Strike into a channeled block (IE: it doesn’t end when it blocks an attack, but rather continues to block all attacks within the radius for a set duration of time. Think warrior shield 5 meets well of precog.) Also speed up of symbol of faith.

The way I see it, protector’s strike could be used similar to how mesmer’s use distortion to help allies in raids avoid damage. So PS could be used for VG green circles and for stuff like Deimos. It might need a range increase though to make it practical to use. Not sure it needs its duration increased. Mesmer signet distortion only lasts 1 second i think, and mace block already lasts 3 seconds if not interrupted.

There are so few mechanics that blocks/aegis work on, it’s depressing.

Anyway, your idea is a good one.

Here’s my take on it:

Protector’s Strike last 2 1/2 seconds
Blocks all attacks on you for the duration, and pulses aegis to allies in range when you block an attack (1sec internal cd)
And it works like DD’s Bandit’s Defense, if you block an attack, you unlock the flip skill that damages all enemies around and grants protection.

Kill the condi meta

RabbitUp.8294:

Protector’s Strike last 2 1/2 seconds
Blocks all attacks on you for the duration, and pulses aegis to allies in range when you block an attack (1sec internal cd)
And it works like DD’s Bandit’s Defense, if you block an attack, you unlock the flip skill that damages all enemies around and grants protection.

That would be a reasonable rework, indeed.

Aegis has priority block over Protector’s Strike. So we’ll be lucky to pull off 2 Aegis proc applications.

On average, we’ll pull off only 1 aoe aegis on every Protector’s Strike usage.

If there’s multiple hits, removing our aegis to hit PS and apply multiple Aegis applications, an Ally’s aegis doesn’t stack so it would look as if he only had 1 Aegis. He would need to be near the Guard taking numerous hits at once, for numerous Aegis to get reapplied.

This is a similar placebo affect Defender’s Dogma has with Permeating Wrath. A hit after a block to proc a F1 activation does no good if my F1 (3 hit) charge is already full. I’d have to apply numerous hits while also get hit numerous times to notice the increased burn stacks.

I didn’t make it clear, but I didn’t mean for the guardian to get aegis, only the other allies in range. And it’s just meant to be a bonus against aoe attacks, not the main draw of the ability.