Guild Wars 2

Recently came back to the game and mentioned that I like to use hammer on my Guardian. Voice com got real quiet, “Don’t you mean mace?” was the reply. “Uhh, no I mean 2 handed hammer. Ya’know, kinda like Gallagher.”

Well that didn’t go over well at all. Apparently attempting to do damage as a Guardian is a cardinal sin if you want to participate in GvG. I was simply instructed to re-roll a warrior if I wanted to smash things.

This will not do gentlemen. This will not do at all. This game attracted me because of Anet’s attempt to stray away from these restrictive role classifications in the first place.

So you tell me, denizens of the forumscape, what has to happen for my hammer to be an acceptable tool for dealing with these conveniently shaped watermelon like invader heads.

You can still use it…. just not as a primary damage tool. At least not these days I guess. It’s good for ringing in people, stopping stomps and rezzes and a decent blast finisher and immob. /shrug. People have just pushed Guardians into their specialty, which is heavy defense and support type. Although I have seen guards 1vX and kill people very easily, so do whatever you want, is my opinionated answer.

I think you should just change your guild. Not only your guildmates seem to have a severe lack of knowledge about how the hammer works (and btw, Guardian Hammer damage is HIGHER than Warrior Hammer DPS), but they also have that unpleasant mob mentality. There are plenty cool people in this game, roll with those

i think hammer has always been in a good place since the very first bfuf it got after official release. still is. still love it. still smashing people with it.

it might not be the highest DPS weapon a Guardian can wield, but it is by no means far off. and to a certain extent, pick weapons that suit your build, or vice versa and work with that.

Kadin.2356:

Recently came back to the game and mentioned that I like to use hammer on my Guardian. Voice com got real quiet, “Don’t you mean mace?” was the reply. “Uhh, no I mean 2 handed hammer. Ya’know, kinda like Gallagher.”

Well that didn’t go over well at all. Apparently attempting to do damage as a Guardian is a cardinal sin if you want to participate in GvG. I was simply instructed to re-roll a warrior if I wanted to smash things.

This will not do gentlemen. This will not do at all. This game attracted me because of Anet’s attempt to stray away from these restrictive role classifications in the first place.

So you tell me, denizens of the forumscape, what has to happen for my hammer to be an acceptable tool for dealing with these conveniently shaped watermelon like invader heads.

Your guildmates are the people stopping you from using the Hammer, not the game. I’ve seen people use the Hammer for DPS and that number 2 skill seriously kicks some kitten tail I’ll tell you that.

In the end if you want to play Hammer DPS then play Hammer DPS. They can’t stop you. If they want someone for heals or buffs then maybe THEY should re-roll. I don’t understand why people can’t just let others play as they want.

who the kitten has been telling you that? o_O

If your guild doesn’t want you to run hammer, then don’t run hammer. You should have known you would be expected to run what the guild expects you to run, just how I don’t like runing a boring glamour build on my mesmer for guild raids but I do it anyway because it helps the team.

If you want to “play how you want”, then don’t do anything which requires groups so you don’t have to be held to standards.

This depends on what you are doing, both are slow weps, but hammer does bring more burst to the table. i can do a 4k mighty blow, and im running bunker, mace is nice(imo better for 1v1 bc of the lack of cc) … in a group, in terms of zerg busting or larger groups fights then hammer is just boss, immobilize on it is insane and ring of warding is just excellent, so why would it not be great for killing folks?

colesy.8490:

If your guild doesn’t want you to run hammer, then don’t run hammer. You should have known you would be expected to run what the guild expects you to run, just how I don’t like runing a boring glamour build on my mesmer for guild raids but I do it anyway because it helps the team.

If you want to “play how you want”, then don’t do anything which requires groups so you don’t have to be held to standards.

So there’s the rub right there. The mentality that Guardian DPS doesn’t meet “standards”. Is this reality? or just unjustified pigeonholing.

I know the knee-jerk reaction to this is “of corse this is false” but if guard DPS is being frowned upon then perhaps some changes need to be made? We shouldn’t supplant any of the other DPS options, but I’d at least like it to be a recognized, viable, alternative.

guardian dps is one of the highest assuming the same buffs are applied (including warrior banners… meaning your group needs at least one warrior). It is only the solo dps that isn’t great because guardians have very little offensive utilities.

Kadin.2356:

colesy.8490:

If your guild doesn’t want you to run hammer, then don’t run hammer. You should have known you would be expected to run what the guild expects you to run, just how I don’t like runing a boring glamour build on my mesmer for guild raids but I do it anyway because it helps the team.

If you want to “play how you want”, then don’t do anything which requires groups so you don’t have to be held to standards.

So there’s the rub right there. The mentality that Guardian DPS doesn’t meet “standards”. Is this reality? or just unjustified pigeonholing.

I know the knee-jerk reaction to this is “of corse this is false” but if guard DPS is being frowned upon then perhaps some changes need to be made? We shouldn’t supplant any of the other DPS options, but I’d at least like it to be a recognized, viable, alternative.

It’s nothing to do with DPS, it’s to do with the other guardian weapons being more useful. Staff for empower and line of warding and greatsword for pulls. Then there’s mace/shield for healing, knockback, projectile absorption and protection. Hammer offers you a blast finisher which other classes can do and CC which you can do on other weapons. Staff, mace and GS symbols can set up ret bombs as well.

If it honestly is that they think guardian DPS is lacking then the OP can either either choose to educate and sway them, suck it up or leave the guild.

hammer is one of the best aoe weapons (staff and hammer being the ones we have, gs is a burst aoe that heavily depedns on cool downs and basically for noobs) in the game, dps wise, since it can keep aoe up 24/7 and probably the only weapon i would even consider investing in symboltraits for, in wvw ofc.

Its also our best burst weapon and even as a bunker you can hit for 6k aoe if you know what you are doing.

But it requires a person that actually knows how to play it. Very few do.

I wouldnt play a single zerg vs zerg and not go hammer and/or GS/staff, its as simple as that.

Either swap guilds to a guild that:
Knows how to play and can appriciate what the hammer is, one the best melee aoe weapons in the game, in zergs.
Understand that wvw isnt competitive and dont give a flying kitten about builds

Or that you stay in the guild and conform.

in short we arent forced to play a certain setup but some players needs specific weapons to play certain setups.

This depends on what you are doing, both are slow weps, but hammer does bring more burst to the table. i can do a 4k mighty blow, and im running bunker, mace is nice(imo better for 1v1 bc of the lack of cc) … in a group, in terms of zerg busting or larger groups fights then hammer is just boss, immobilize on it is insane and ring of warding is just excellent, so why would it not be great for killing folks?

This ^^

While in GvG it is important to run a spec that gels well with the entire raid make-up, dismissing the hammer seems a very odd decision.

It has far more raid utility than a gs, superb frontline aoe dps and effective CC that either breaks the momentum of the opposition or forces them to blow their stability, as well as a reliable source of blast finishers…and then there’s the symbols…

edit: Didn’t see that Birdo had basically said this already ;-)

Brutaly.6257:

(gs is … basically for noobs)

Ouch Brut, that hurt to the core, man.

@OP, I think most people here have given some good responses. I tend to play how I want to and luckily, I’m in a guild that’s quite supportive of that. I’d suggest you ask your guild to (politely) deal with your hammer preference.

If you’re talking PvP then I dunno. Hammer is a decent CC weapon but it’s pretty crap for DPS, especially given that people can basically just walk out of its area of effect. It’s like trying to DPS with staff ele in PvP; you do huge damage when Lava Font connects but nothing when it doesn’t.

Your guild thinks a weapon with a 5-second cooldown blast finisher, an AoE immobilize, a stomp-interrupt and an area-denial skill is bad for GvG?

Building a guardian for high damage output in GvG is questionable. The low base hitpoints on the class versus the kind of focused damage an enemy guild is likely to output makes that a risky proposition. If I were attempting to set up a GvG squad I’d want my guardians to be in fairly tanky gear. But the skills on the hammer are well suited to organized group combat regardless of the stat combination you’re using.

In order for 2h hammer to be valid dps. It has to hit harder hands down. It’s slow and doesn’t have a condition or damage over time effect. So that will make it fall short in every area. It’s almost at the point of not even being worth it in pvp too.

Because you don’t kill as many people as you used to with it. I use hammer to smack people off things and CC. That’s about all it gets burn in nowadays for me.

Guard Hammer tries to do everything while actually accomplishing little.
It has some control but on such short durations and long CDs that it’s unreliable.
DPS is far below Sword and even GS.
The whole autoattack-taking-millenia-to-land design fail is an hard limit imposed on this weapons that detracts from its usefulness – I personally don’t juse hammer just for this reason.

Until they improve its usefulness (by either improving the effects or decreasing CDs) and remove the design flaws from it, I wouldn’t really recommend it.

As cool as it is, Anet has forgotten Hammer just as it has forgotten Guardians in general.

If you want to smash things roll warrior? Yes because Warrior AA with a hammer offers protection. Warrior hammer has a blast finisher on kitten CD and warrior hammer has a launch…

Guard hammer is amazing and good for support and DPS.

Mepheles.2087:

You can still use it…. just not as a primary damage tool. At least not these days I guess. It’s good for ringing in people, stopping stomps and rezzes and a decent blast finisher and immob. /shrug. People have just pushed Guardians into their specialty, which is heavy defense and support type. Although I have seen guards 1vX and kill people very easily, so do whatever you want, is my opinionated answer.

That’s the kind of stupid crap that ruins mmorpgs. I played my ranger in PvP today and got roflstomped by a guardian that was wielding a hammer. Do what you want to do. Build the way you want to build… because eventually, you’ll understand the hammer’s mechanics so well that you can make your own build and people will flock to you and ask you what your build is.

Trust me, I’ve seen this done in WoW before. I played a Pally tank, a druid tank, and a shaman healer. Every single time I went into a dungeon with any of those characters, I would get criticized. At the end of the dungeon, they all added me to their friend’s list and wanted to know what build I was using. One of my builds got so popular that it was number 1 on some class build website for a very long time – I’d say close to a year.

I’m not sure what guild told you that, but when my guild is doing GvG’s, (really not bragging about myself, more about Hammer Guards) I get quite a few pm’s telling me to hurry to wherever (since I pretty much only play Guardian). Hammer Guardians are awesome, Guardians in general are awesome. Mace is fun and pretty good, but I use that more for PvE/Dungeon stuff… Hammer can go anywhere lol

Been to many GvG on SoR and most of the Guardians were using Hammer or GS depending on their role.

Kadin.2356:

Recently came back to the game and mentioned that I like to use hammer on my Guardian. Voice com got real quiet, “Don’t you mean mace?” was the reply. “Uhh, no I mean 2 handed hammer. Ya’know, kinda like Gallagher.”

Well that didn’t go over well at all. Apparently attempting to do damage as a Guardian is a cardinal sin if you want to participate in GvG. I was simply instructed to re-roll a warrior if I wanted to smash things.

This will not do gentlemen. This will not do at all. This game attracted me because of Anet’s attempt to stray away from these restrictive role classifications in the first place.

So you tell me, denizens of the forumscape, what has to happen for my hammer to be an acceptable tool for dealing with these conveniently shaped watermelon like invader heads.

GvG is not casual play. You don’t just go out and run whatever you want like in other game activities. If you want to GvG you accept that you will have to alter your build and play style to go along with your team’s strategy. I am not saying it is a good stategy, because it doesn’t sound like it is, but for GvG you subscribe to your team’s strategy or don’t participate. GvG isn’t really ideal for selfish players.

All of that said, you probably need to find a new guild, because yours obviously sucks. There is a place for mace/shield+staff healing guardians and hammer+gs guardians in GvG.

interesting how some people still think hammer does little DPS or accomplishes little. don’t get me wrong, i loev the GS and there are situations where i’ll pick GS or sword or whatever else over hammer. but to say hammer is not worth it? in various situations? i beg to differ. : ))

the AA being slow (which is a fact) might be a personal preference thing for someone to hate or embrace it. but to say it’s less effective because of that is stretching it, imo.

You can use it as a good damage tool.. Traited right you can hit squishies for like 5k easy on 2. It’s still viable people who say it isnt just don’t know what guards are capable of. I have a dps guard and can 1v1 almost any class except a good mes.. they usually win 1v1s if they are skilled.

Don’t let them tell you how to play. Play how YOU want to play and kitten the rest bro!

akamon.2769:

interesting how some people still think hammer does little DPS or accomplishes little. don’t get me wrong, i loev the GS and there are situations where i’ll pick GS or sword or whatever else over hammer. but to say hammer is not worth it? in various situations? i beg to differ. : ))

the AA being slow (which is a fact) might be a personal preference thing for someone to hate or embrace it. but to say it’s less effective because of that is stretching it, imo.

I wanted to show them the maths on the actually damage difference but I think things get complicated since this thread appear to be more about GvG where the assumption of every single symbol tick will hit the target becomes… a little more optimistic

timidobserver.7925:

GvG is not casual play. You don’t just go out and run whatever you want like in other game activities. If you want to GvG you accept that you will have to alter your build and play style to go along with your team’s strategy. I am not saying it is a good stategy, because it doesn’t sound like it is, but for GvG you subscribe to your team’s strategy or don’t participate. GvG isn’t really ideal for selfish players.

I think it was noted earlier, it should be a two way street. He should have to drop his entire build just for them, and they should have to carry what they see as weight. (Even though, as you said, Hammer is a viable choice.)There’s probably a compromise or an explanation that should make both parties happy here.
And with most guildies you expect some sort of camaraderie, understanding , and guidance out of them, not forum style berating for a preferred build. (In which case I’d agree he might want to start looking for a new guild, but I don’t know how close and established he feels in this one.)

Even then, I’m not 100% willing to say GvG would be completely free of casual play. You’ll never be legends, but I’m sure casual people have found a flow and enjoy just playing it.

I wasn’t aware this game even had such a thing as GvG.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I wasn’t aware this game even had such a thing as GvG.

Yeah, I’m finding that terminology at present confusing as well. Are we talking guilds facing other guilds in WvW?

Galtrix.7369:

Mepheles.2087:

You can still use it…. just not as a primary damage tool. At least not these days I guess. It’s good for ringing in people, stopping stomps and rezzes and a decent blast finisher and immob. /shrug. People have just pushed Guardians into their specialty, which is heavy defense and support type. Although I have seen guards 1vX and kill people very easily, so do whatever you want, is my opinionated answer.

That’s the kind of stupid crap that ruins mmorpgs. I played my ranger in PvP today and got roflstomped by a guardian that was wielding a hammer. Do what you want to do. Build the way you want to build… because eventually, you’ll understand the hammer’s mechanics so well that you can make your own build and people will flock to you and ask you what your build is.

Trust me, I’ve seen this done in WoW before. I played a Pally tank, a druid tank, and a shaman healer. Every single time I went into a dungeon with any of those characters, I would get criticized. At the end of the dungeon, they all added me to their friend’s list and wanted to know what build I was using. One of my builds got so popular that it was number 1 on some class build website for a very long time – I’d say close to a year.

I never said it was bad, I just said people will want you to run what they think is more helpful, rather than what is more fun or independent. Which is why I could never do 5v5 or GvG because I like what I like. Like I said, I’ve seen guardians roll people but that’s not enough to convince most people

Lord Rheios.4152:

timidobserver.7925:

GvG is not casual play. You don’t just go out and run whatever you want like in other game activities. If you want to GvG you accept that you will have to alter your build and play style to go along with your team’s strategy. I am not saying it is a good stategy, because it doesn’t sound like it is, but for GvG you subscribe to your team’s strategy or don’t participate. GvG isn’t really ideal for selfish players.

I think it was noted earlier, it should be a two way street. He should have to drop his entire build just for them, and they should have to carry what they see as weight. (Even though, as you said, Hammer is a viable choice.)There’s probably a compromise or an explanation that should make both parties happy here.
And with most guildies you expect some sort of camaraderie, understanding , and guidance out of them, not forum style berating for a preferred build. (In which case I’d agree he might want to start looking for a new guild, but I don’t know how close and established he feels in this one.)

Even then, I’m not 100% willing to say GvG would be completely free of casual play. You’ll never be legends, but I’m sure casual people have found a flow and enjoy just playing it.

There is no two way street. It is no different than insisting on playing point guard on the NBA team put him in their line up to to play center. He has the option to simply not play if he doesn’t like it.

He doesn’t have to drop anything for anyone. No one is forcing him to GvG with them. If he wants to run with a GvG group, he needs to use their builds and strategy or least theorycraft some statistically and strategically viable alternative and sell it to them. He doesn’t get to just run what he wants because he wants to.

All of that said, out of principle, I would leave any guild that insisted that hammer guardians should not be allowed to GvG. Most of the leading GvG guilds run at least a few hammer guardians. The guardian should not be geared for max damage, but using the hammer in general should be fine.

You are only as pigeon-holed as you think you are.

Stice.5204:

Your guild thinks a weapon with a 5-second cooldown blast finisher, an AoE immobilize, a stomp-interrupt and an area-denial skill is bad for GvG?

Building a guardian for high damage output in GvG is questionable. The low base hitpoints on the class versus the kind of focused damage an enemy guild is likely to output makes that a risky proposition. If I were attempting to set up a GvG squad I’d want my guardians to be in fairly tanky gear. But the skills on the hammer are well suited to organized group combat regardless of the stat combination you’re using.

I think the problem is they are comparing it to the hammer/lb warrior setup. The guardian hammer variant isn’t even close to the amount of damage/control the warriors setup can put out. The mace on the other hand brings good aoe support for the guild.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1nr45y/the_new_meta_hammer_warrior_how_do_you_kill_it/

Hammer is a completely amazing weapon for a team, immobilize with coordinated focus fire = kills, punt = kills and saves, ring = draws stability and creates kills big time, constant area retaliation blast finishers are very helpful esp when outnumbered…

Hammer is a godly WvW weapon for any kind of skilled Guardian with guildmates who know what they’re doing.. I think it’s the hardest weapon to use effectively and when you master it it’s probably the best overall but of course in combination with certain weapons depending on build.

Immobilize means you can’t dodge, means your team can coordinated burst, people in a ring also aren’t gonna dodge much usually, this stuff alone makes hammer so important for serious group play Guardians.

I use hammer in my fullest healing builds, the damage isn’t as important as the group utility if you master it.

Kadin.2356:

Recently came back to the game and mentioned that I like to use hammer on my Guardian. Voice com got real quiet, “Don’t you mean mace?” was the reply. “Uhh, no I mean 2 handed hammer. Ya’know, kinda like Gallagher.”

Well that didn’t go over well at all. Apparently attempting to do damage as a Guardian is a cardinal sin if you want to participate in GvG. I was simply instructed to re-roll a warrior if I wanted to smash things.

This will not do gentlemen. This will not do at all. This game attracted me because of Anet’s attempt to stray away from these restrictive role classifications in the first place.

So you tell me, denizens of the forumscape, what has to happen for my hammer to be an acceptable tool for dealing with these conveniently shaped watermelon like invader heads.

You are correct, of course, but damage specs have rarely been a realistic option for the Guardian, and when they were, they were instantly nerfed.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I wasn’t aware this game even had such a thing as GvG.

Not sure if srs or being deliberately obtuse.

No, Anet does not have an official GvG “mode” in the game, but players have created it on their own in WvW, and have been doing it since release. RG was one of the more well-known “pro” GvG guilds, at least before their dissolution.