Guild Wars 2

…why are my healing skills worser than warrior healing skills? Come on, lower DPS – fine, but lower healing(+ significantly lower HP)? Really? I´ am a guardian…

I am on lvl 37 right now and have troubles to beat more than 3 mobs(lvl 35) at the same time. I have a warrior and a elementalist on lvl 80 and I didn´t have any problems to get map completion with both of them, but somehow I really struggle with my guardian.

Any advices for me? Any usefull builds/skills/traits?

I really hope this class will show me some love on lvl 80, otherwise I ll just get back to my easy mode zerk warrior

Because Guardians aren’t Warriors.

How do you have lower healing? If you mean passive, afk healing then yes. But you do have a heal skill you know. You also have protection, aegis, easier access to regen, along with a host of defensive utilities.

It was a struggle for me leveling my first guard too, but after doing the second one I learned that during the leveling process you need to focus more on negating the damage rather than healing through it. Below lvl 70-ish healing power scales really badly in most situations. Use skills like signet of judgement, retreat (for the aegis as well as speed boost), possibly some racial skills depending on which race you chose, and most importantly, get accustomed to using those virtues. Always saving them for those “OS” moments isn’t always a good plan. The first elite I always got was renewed focus. It’s invaluable while leveling up. The weapons you use play a big factor too. While any weapon can perform the job just fine on paper, it might not be the weapon for your specific playstyle. Try another one or a different combo, see if it works any better for you. Lastly, the reason those other classes seem easier, is they are dps based. this game, sadly, is based off of dps. So when gearing throw in some dps stats. The faster you burn it down, the less time you have to try to jump through hoops to survive. I hate that the game works that way and hopefully changes are coming to remedy that, but for now it’s what works. Doesn’t mean you have to go full zerker, but you might be too timid on the dps and it’s making things harder for you.

Once you’ve hit level 40 put 15 points in Radiance and 5 points in Virtues.
Then use F1 against each foe and you’ll burn them, blind all nearby foes, inflict Vulnerability and gain Might; after the foe has died you can do it again.

Use staff for open PvE; it’s good for tagging and has a speed buff.

You’re comparing a level 37 guardian to a level 80 warrior?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You’re comparing a level 37 guardian to a level 80 warrior?

He compared the level 37 guard to where his war was at when at level 37

Like other posters have said – it’s all about damage mitigation than the healing potential that makes the Guardian.

Look at them from a different perspective – their healing, compared to other classes, may be weaker, but they’re options for blocking and preventing all damage is much, much greater, and that’s where their greatest defense lies.

You need to use your blinds.

Wall of reflection for ranged mobs.

I would aim for 0/15/30/20/5 build.

The 15 radiance and 5 virtue and 15 honor are your priority traits.

After that it don’t matter.

Run meditations when solo, ah in a group.

Weapons don’t matter much. I pumped up condition damage and ran sword/torch and mace/focus using burns to level. Just strafe around mobs burning them.

Also would use gs – ji to mob symbol, chain, ww, virtue of justice, chain again, leap -swap – mace2, mace 3, focus 4, mace chain… things dead and you took no damage… pop stand your ground if you expect cc. Idea here is to keep the blinds running.

Warrior’s defensive power comes from having high base stats and powerful regen that costs them the ability to burst heal. Guardian’s defensive power comes from defensive boons, multiple sources of HP regeneration, and access to burst healing (most easily gotten through 15 points in honor). Due to guard requiring more investment to be sturdy, he’s not going to be as tough right out the starting gate like warrior is since the warrior’s defense all comes naturally.

Gaurdian has the beast healing capability in game, with the dodge roll heals+dual energy sigils, but you need +healing on gear for it.
There is no real problem with the guardian class, it’s really balanced very well, all builds have a clear weakness that can be used against it. other classes sadly, are out of balance. It’s also mainly contributed to the ability to use precision toughness condition damage gear. the equivalent which is not available in game for guardian would be a precision toughness healing gear set, we would be just as op if it existed.

clint.5681:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You’re comparing a level 37 guardian to a level 80 warrior?

He compared the level 37 guard to where his war was at when at level 37

Not unless he leveled that warrior in the last couple months he isn’t. Before the Healing Signet change warrior regen was a joke.

Even so, warriors have more passive defense and (a little) less active defense (especially party wide) than guardians do. Which seems back asswards to me but I don’t work for Anet so what do I know.

Sannhet.8745:

clint.5681:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You’re comparing a level 37 guardian to a level 80 warrior?

He compared the level 37 guard to where his war was at when at level 37

Not unless he leveled that warrior in the last couple months he isn’t. Before the Healing Signet change warrior regen was a joke.

Given that Healing Signet isn’t the best open world heal anyway, it’s irrelevant that it used to be worse. It’s hard to think of any leveling fights that take more than 20-30s and most are far shorter, so you should be using Healing Surge.

Sannhet.8745:

Even so, warriors have more passive defense and (a little) less active defense (especially party wide) than guardians do. Which seems back asswards to me but I don’t work for Anet so what do I know.

Why? It’s not like guardians do less damage than warriors.

Yaki.9563:

Given that Healing Signet isn’t the best open world heal anyway, it’s irrelevant that it used to be worse. It’s hard to think of any leveling fights that take more than 20-30s and most are far shorter, so you should be using Healing Surge.

It’s relevant in a comparison. Which this is.

Yaki.9563:

Sannhet.8745:

Even so, warriors have more passive defense and (a little) less active defense (especially party wide) than guardians do. Which seems back asswards to me but I don’t work for Anet so what do I know.

Why? It’s not like guardians do less damage than warriors.

Can’t tell if troll or just misinformed. Guardians do more theoretical DPS than warriors do, but it’s much more likely to not be optimized – 1-2 hits of WW miss almost every time. Which isn’t to say they aren’t close, but…

Even so, since you’re asking my opinion, it’s more of a design problem to me: Guards are supposed to be more the sustained damage attrition class (said by Anet themselves) with more passive/sustained defense, and warriors are supposed to be the more burst damage all-in class (said by Anet themselves) with strong burst defenses that are CD gated. Their current iterations are not fitting with the original design scheme.

Which isn’t an issue in and of itself, but it bothers me.

Sannhet.8745:

Yaki.9563:

Given that Healing Signet isn’t the best open world heal anyway, it’s irrelevant that it used to be worse. It’s hard to think of any leveling fights that take more than 20-30s and most are far shorter, so you should be using Healing Surge.

It’s relevant in a comparison. Which this is.

Yaki.9563:

Sannhet.8745:

Even so, warriors have more passive defense and (a little) less active defense (especially party wide) than guardians do. Which seems back asswards to me but I don’t work for Anet so what do I know.

Why? It’s not like guardians do less damage than warriors.

Can’t tell if troll or just misinformed. Guardians do more theoretical DPS than warriors do, but it’s much more likely to not be optimized – 1-2 hits of WW miss almost every time. Which isn’t to say they aren’t close, but…

Even so, since you’re asking my opinion, it’s more of a design problem to me: Guards are supposed to be more the sustained damage attrition class (said by Anet themselves) with more passive/sustained defense, and warriors are supposed to be the more burst damage all-in class (said by Anet themselves) with strong burst defenses that are CD gated. Their current iterations are not fitting with the original design scheme.

Which isn’t an issue in and of itself, but it bothers me.

Thats because they changed it when warriors kept complaining they had no sustain like guardians do. Guardian lacks burst damage, but anet probably will not give it to them.

Problems:

Warriors can deal Heavy damage while maintaining good survivability due to their high HP pools, passive regen and all around Logan butt thuckery.

Guardians can deal Heavy damage while our survivability falls dramatically the more we focus on dealing damage.

Warriors will always deal great damage and I go no problems with them having some sustain but being able to sustain better than the Guardian which is supposed to really be the ‘sustain king’ is questionable.

Guardians are well balanced and the main problem is that we don’t really have a ‘Meta’ unless you want to go on about the Healaway guard which couldn’t kill a disabled fly.

Make sure you’re using updated armor and weapons as well. It’s a good idea to upgrade your armor with master equipment (greens) every 10 levels or less.

tanshiniza.8629:

Problems:

Warriors can deal Heavy damage while maintaining good survivability due to their high HP pools, passive regen and all around Logan butt thuckery.

Guardians can deal Heavy damage while our survivability falls dramatically the more we focus on dealing damage.

Warriors will always deal great damage and I go no problems with them having some sustain but being able to sustain better than the Guardian which is supposed to really be the ‘sustain king’ is questionable.

Guardians are well balanced and the main problem is that we don’t really have a ‘Meta’ unless you want to go on about the Healaway guard which couldn’t kill a disabled fly.

Healway can kill more builds than builds that can kill healway.

Guardian helps sustain others better than warrior does, gives group stability, and has wards.

tanshiniza.8629:

Problems:

Warriors can deal Heavy damage while maintaining good survivability due to their high HP pools, passive regen and all around Logan butt thuckery.

Guardians can deal Heavy damage while our survivability falls dramatically the more we focus on dealing damage.

Warriors will always deal great damage and I go no problems with them having some sustain but being able to sustain better than the Guardian which is supposed to really be the ‘sustain king’ is questionable.

Guardians are well balanced and the main problem is that we don’t really have a ‘Meta’ unless you want to go on about the Healaway guard which couldn’t kill a disabled fly.

It’s not really clear what you are saying is a problem. I don’t see how what a warrior does makes what a Guardian does a problem. If you like what a warrior does, you should play it. Then your problems are solved.

I don’t even agree we don’t have a Meta … we most definitely do. I think the problem for me is that even with the variety the profession presents, it’s very limited by the Meta. I’m not even convinced that’s a Guardian problem. I think that’s a game development direction problem.

What I’m hoping to impress upon people is that their angst is misguided, directing them to suggest ineffective solutions.

If you’re a Guardian and you’re having trouble beating even 5 mobs at once…. I really don’t know what to say.

This char could literally take on champions on it’s own even at level 37 and you can’t kill 3 mobs?

What build are you using anyway?

Dirame.8521:

If you’re a Guardian and you’re having trouble beating even 5 mobs at once…. I really don’t know what to say.

This char could literally take on champions on it’s own even at level 37 and you can’t kill 3 mobs?

What build are you using anyway?

5 mobs? I was killing 20 mobs or 3 champions at the same time when I was lvl 5. Naked.

Obtena.7952:

It’s not really clear what you are saying is a problem. I don’t see how what a warrior does makes what a Guardian does a problem. If you like what a warrior does, you should play it. Then your problems are solved.

I don’t even agree we don’t have a Meta … we most definitely do. I think the problem for me is that even with the variety the profession presents, it’s very limited by the Meta. I’m not even convinced that’s a Guardian problem. I think that’s a game development direction problem.

What I’m hoping to impress upon people is that their angst is misguided, directing them to suggest ineffective solutions.

Sorry for the terrible post I was half asleep at work when I wrote this and put it across completely backwards. So let me try this again now I’ve had a coffee.

I don’t really think the Guardian in itself has any real problems and the Warrior is in a far better place than what it was for the last year but I think they’ve done a little too much.

Naturally some classes lean further into certain areas so support/defensive utilities for example when it comes to the Guardian. We are still the better Team player than the Warrior and will always be a vital part of a PvP group.
I do expect warriors to be the superior Juggernaut of destruction since that is and always will be their focus as such.

They did go a bit too far and put them a tier above all the other classes when looking at Sustain/Damage since other classes have to give up a larger amount of their sustain to truly dish it out. I don’t see it as game breaking but it’s something that should be toned down a little to allow for a more even match up.

I’ve played for a year and 90% of my game is on the Guardian and I love the class and I do not under any circumstances wish to change class to a Warrior or any other profession for that matter. I like what the Guardian does and that’s that.

I play in WvW and that is where the Warrior is meant to be the most ‘lethal’ at the moment, I haven’t had much of a problem but you do notice little things that don’t seem quite right. As balance goes it doesn’t really exist so there will always be something that has an edge and people have to point it out otherwise nothing will be done at the end of the day.

God bless Coffee and I hope this clarifies the point I was attempting to make.

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

SchuMidas.4782:

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

If you’re speaking with regards to PvE then it’s just one of those things. Warriors are the damage dealing Juggernaut types however with the correct set-up for a Guardian you won’t actually be that far behind him over the length of a fight since Warriors have good burst damage but we have the greater sustained DPS.

If you’re talking about WvW then dodge and he can 25K the air while you stare at him from a moderate distance.

SchuMidas.4782:

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

you need to understand what dps means.
big damage numbers dont matter.

if your warrior deals 25k 100b, that means he deals like 7,142k per second.
a guardian easily beats that with autoattacks only.

and if you want to compare warrior autoattack vs guardian autoattack, guardian autoattacks are stronger.

NoTrigger.8396:

SchuMidas.4782:

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

you need to understand what dps means.
big damage numbers dont matter.

if your warrior deals 25k 100b, that means he deals like 7142k per second.
a guardian easily beats that with autoattacks only.

and if you want to compare warrior autoattack vs guardian autoattack, guardian autoattacks are stronger.

This is probably correct. It’s really difficult to model DPS in GW2 because combat is so fluid and so many things can effect it (like how often you have to dodge or how the terrain can make certain skills more or less useful), but the best theorycrafting and testing we’ve managed to come up with so far suggests that warrior and guardian sustained DPS is roughly equal assuming both are using a maximum DPS builds under optimal conditions.

So basically, do not get hung up on Hundred Blades. Your guardian’s DPS is about the same.

oh mistake^^. not 7142k, its 7,142k

tanshiniza.8629:

SchuMidas.4782:

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

If you’re speaking with regards to PvE then it’s just one of those things. Warriors are the damage dealing Juggernaut types however with the correct set-up for a Guardian you won’t actually be that far behind him over the length of a fight since Warriors have good burst damage but we have the greater sustained DPS.

If you’re talking about WvW then dodge and he can 25K the air while you stare at him from a moderate distance.

It’s actually the other way around. Guardians have better burst skills on their GS (WW, Symbol, Binding) while Warriors have better sustain on their axe auto versus the guardian’s sword.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

tanshiniza.8629:

SchuMidas.4782:

in max berzerker build lv 80 warrior can do 25k damage
while guardian can do 8k

soo…. yeah go figure

If you’re speaking with regards to PvE then it’s just one of those things. Warriors are the damage dealing Juggernaut types however with the correct set-up for a Guardian you won’t actually be that far behind him over the length of a fight since Warriors have good burst damage but we have the greater sustained DPS.

If you’re talking about WvW then dodge and he can 25K the air while you stare at him from a moderate distance.

It’s actually the other way around. Guardians have better burst skills on their GS (WW, Symbol, Binding) while Warriors have better sustain on their axe auto versus the guardian’s sword.

I don’t think you understand what a burst skill is so I will explain.

Burst Skill: A singular skill that allows for maximum damage in the shortest period of time possible for example 100B and WW. In this case 100B is superior hands down in terms of damage.

DOT Skill or Damage over time: A Skill that continues to deal damage over an extended duration and in most cases is used as Bonus damage to the damage you yourself are dealing directly. For example Symbols on a Guardian.

CC Skills: Skills that cause detrimental effects to the enemy either causing reduced mobility, inability to active skills or a combination of the two. For example Binding Blade as this allows for the enemy player to be pulled to the Guardian and knocked down for a short period.

Warriors auto attack on Axe is good however Guardians Sword Auto is still superior and also the Axe takes away the Burst skill of the Greatsword so it isn’t really any better.

You can go to PvP lobby and try everything out then come back again if you think I am wrong.

To throw in some numbers my Warrior hits for 12K Hundred Blades in comparison to the 4K on WW for my Guardian. Both have exactly the same set-up in terms of statistics.

NoTrigger.8396:

oh mistake^^. not 7142k, its 7,142k

You made another mistake too:

It should’ve said just 7,142 damage. What you said would = 7,142,000 damage, unless you meant that for the funnies.

what? you make me crazy^^

i mean 7142. seven thousand one hundred and forty two

tanshiniza.8629:

To throw in some numbers my Warrior hits for 12K Hundred Blades in comparison to the 4K on WW for my Guardian. Both have exactly the same set-up in terms of statistics.

These are not really comparable numbers, though, because the Hundred Blades channel takes 3.5 seconds while Whirling Wrath executes in 1 second. If they did the same damage Whirling Wrath’s DPS would be much higher.

Stice.5204:

tanshiniza.8629:

To throw in some numbers my Warrior hits for 12K Hundred Blades in comparison to the 4K on WW for my Guardian. Both have exactly the same set-up in terms of statistics.

These are not really comparable numbers, though, because the Hundred Blades channel takes 3.5 seconds while Whirling Wrath executes in 1 second. If they did the same damage Whirling Wrath’s DPS would be much higher.

Guardian DPS is higher however singular skill Burst damage is much greater for the Warrior. I won’t deny as a burst skill I prefer Whirling Wrath but by the definition of a Burst skill the Warriors deals more ‘in this single moment’ damage.

Burst Skill: A singular skill that allows for maximum damage in the shortest period of time possible for example 100B and WW. In this case 100B is superior hands down in terms of damage.

Per second WW does more damage which is the DPS but as a singular Burst skill 100B does more. Difference Between looking at the Burst and the DPS of something.

Another factor to consider is with Power WW increase by a coefficient of 2.8 where as 100B increase by a coefficient of 4.4 so they get more damage the more they invest compared to the Guardian.

This games all scenario based though so things will be dodged etc but when you look at just the straight up definition Hundred Blades wins out as the higher singular damage burst skill.

Also just noticed you said if they did the same damage. If my whirling wrath could hit like a Warriors Hundred blades I’d be dropping 5 people every 8 seconds. Besides it doesn’t deal the same damage so that part is irrelevant.

tanshiniza.8629:

Stice.5204:

tanshiniza.8629:

To throw in some numbers my Warrior hits for 12K Hundred Blades in comparison to the 4K on WW for my Guardian. Both have exactly the same set-up in terms of statistics.

These are not really comparable numbers, though, because the Hundred Blades channel takes 3.5 seconds while Whirling Wrath executes in 1 second. If they did the same damage Whirling Wrath’s DPS would be much higher.

Guardian DPS is higher however singular skill Burst damage is much greater for the Warrior. I won’t deny as a burst skill I prefer Whirling Wrath but by the definition of a Burst skill the Warriors deals more ‘in this single moment’ damage.

Burst Skill: A singular skill that allows for maximum damage in the shortest period of time possible for example 100B and WW. In this case 100B is superior hands down in terms of damage.

But it’s not a “single moment.” As I said, Hundred Blades takes 3.5 seconds to channel. It’s actually one of the longest skills in the game, and locks you in place while executing it. It’s so long that you have to be careful about using it in dungeons or the target might force you to cancel the channel by doing something you have to dodge.

Calling Hundred Blades “singular burst” is really kind of dubious when any other class could get off about 3 skills during its channel time. It’s really not as good of a burst as people think.

Stice.5204:

tanshiniza.8629:

Stice.5204:

tanshiniza.8629:

To throw in some numbers my Warrior hits for 12K Hundred Blades in comparison to the 4K on WW for my Guardian. Both have exactly the same set-up in terms of statistics.

These are not really comparable numbers, though, because the Hundred Blades channel takes 3.5 seconds while Whirling Wrath executes in 1 second. If they did the same damage Whirling Wrath’s DPS would be much higher.

Guardian DPS is higher however singular skill Burst damage is much greater for the Warrior. I won’t deny as a burst skill I prefer Whirling Wrath but by the definition of a Burst skill the Warriors deals more ‘in this single moment’ damage.

Burst Skill: A singular skill that allows for maximum damage in the shortest period of time possible for example 100B and WW. In this case 100B is superior hands down in terms of damage.

But it’s not a “single moment.” As I said, Hundred Blades takes 3.5 seconds to channel. It’s actually one of the longest skills in the game, and locks you in place while executing it. It’s so long that you have to be careful about using it in dungeons or the target might force you to cancel the channel by doing something you have to dodge.

Calling Hundred Blades “singular burst” is really kind of dubious when any other class could get off about 3 skills during its channel time. It’s really not as good of a burst as people think.

How about we just go with this.

Guardian has the greater DPS when compared to a warrior and call it a day cause I hate lengthy explanations and I’m also not all that bothered by who does what I just like factual information.

Also since combining skills to deal the greatest damage possible came into the equation given the right scenario (this doesn’t include vulnerability stacks or might etc and baring in mind it all crits) a Guardian can deal 20,000 damage in the space of 1/4 of a second. Situational but still doable.