Guild Wars 2

Understanding the roles other power classes play.

Warriors are somewhat more resilient, mobile, and are basically 100% dependant on their Rampage to burst down targets.

Mesmers have incredibly strong bursts, mobile, team portal utilities and resilient through distortion and stealth.

Assuming you have a 5th slot because the other two are taken by a mixture of Ele, Thief or some type of bunker support… why not hamguard as the 5th filler?

Hamguards do exceptionally well against Mesmers and Thieves considering we have a raw dmg burst potential of 7k and you will only have that 1 window of opportunity to burst down a Mesmer. No other class, other than Thief or mesmer, can instant teleport and output this much burst damage on a single target in a 1200 radius. Add that in conjunction with other focus target dps and the Mesmer is toast. The biggest downside is our mobility but it’s quite alright if you’re a hair behind everyone else. By the time your team needs that burst, you’ll be there.

I understand Absolute Resolution is tough to leave behind but let’s be honest, it’s not going to offer more support than Indomitable Courage unless you’re against heavy condi classes. If you’re running with a self sustaining group, it’s definitely not going to offer a significant performance boost.

TL;DR
That’s my argumentive reasoning as why hamguards should be a 5th pick for team comps. My question is, why don’t we see many of them in tpvp? I’m a bit surprised, I don’t see more running around considering their strong burst potential.

edit
I know they’re not popular in solo play because people are utterly uncoordinated and you’ll likely be the only one on the same target. I was speaking in tournament tpvp play only.

If you base all your burst on JI with hammer you’ll be a sitting duck for 36 sec.

I mean it’s really fun to JI midcast of a mighty blow with unscathed contender, retribution and 15 might but if the targets survives (the damage isnt even that high) you’ll get kited verry easily.

Imo hammer is better at support than dps in a CC heavy tanky build

Mostly because you’re wrong about DPS warriors. I play Guardian and Warrior a lot. The current Greatsword/Hammer Warrior does not rely on Rampage. Rampage is just a cute way to guarantee your kill or get massive amounts of Stab and CC. Backbreaker/Earthshake → 100 blades is how I get most of my kills. Currently DPS Warrior is just better in every way than the Medi Hammer build of the last Meta.

I was doing my best to excerpt info from this Warrior thread in the pvp forums:

Even if Mes took a hit in the damage and sustain departments they would still be a better choice to bring on your team over a War. In fact, even MediGuard brings way more team support while also doing great damage and having great sustain.

Judging from the previous ESL tournaments, Warriors wouldn’t be a thing without Rampage. They say Hamguards would offer more support to allies while also offering moderate amounts of damage but I don’t play warrior, I can’t make that assumption.

I was just curious as to why there aren’t more Hamguards running around. I would think they’d make a strong 5th, all things considered.

We don’t see much of them because GS was buff and Hammer was nerfed.

Because the Hammer is slow and less bursty than GS and the traits that make Hammer good are inconveniently placed.

Saiyan.1704:

Understanding the roles other power classes play.

Warriors are somewhat more resilient, mobile, and are basically 100% dependant on their Rampage to burst down targets.

Mesmers have incredibly strong bursts, mobile, team portal utilities and resilient through distortion and stealth.

Assuming you have a 5th slot because the other two are taken by a mixture of Ele, Thief or some type of bunker support… why not hamguard as the 5th filler?

Hamguards do exceptionally well against Mesmers and Thieves considering we have a raw dmg burst potential of 7k and you will only have that 1 window of opportunity to burst down a Mesmer. No other class, other than Thief or mesmer, can instant teleport and output this much burst damage on a single target in a 1200 radius. Add that in conjunction with other focus target dps and the Mesmer is toast. The biggest downside is our mobility but it’s quite alright if you’re a hair behind everyone else. By the time your team needs that burst, you’ll be there.

I understand Absolute Resolution is tough to leave behind but let’s be honest, it’s not going to offer more support than Indomitable Courage unless you’re against heavy condi classes. If you’re running with a self sustaining group, it’s definitely not going to offer a significant performance boost.

TL;DR
That’s my argumentive reasoning as why hamguards should be a 5th pick for team comps. My question is, why don’t we see many of them in tpvp? I’m a bit surprised, I don’t see more running around considering their strong burst potential.

edit
I know they’re not popular in solo play because people are utterly uncoordinated and you’ll likely be the only one on the same target. I was speaking in tournament tpvp play only.

It’s simple. The meta shifted. Has nothing to do with their shortcomings.

You guys can make as many technical excuses as you want but the fact is, the only reason why the meta shifted is because 1) the patch landed and buffed other professions 2) People figured they’d final try condi guard 3) There are currently no DPS guardians with hammer on any competitive team so people are going to make excuses for why it doesn’t work when it actually still does.

medi guard has really high cds. thats why you need to bring down targets quick before your cds run out. Hammer guard got a nerf with the remove of glacial heart while other classes gained sustain (ele, mes, sa thief, necro and bunker guard). But they also got dmg increase (mes and thief). I guess thats the reason why its out of meta

anti.2964:

medi guard has really high cds. thats why you need to bring down targets quick before your cds run out. Hammer guard got a nerf with the remove of glacial heart while other classes gained sustain (ele, mes, sa thief, necro and bunker guard). But they also got dmg increase (mes and thief). I guess thats the reason why its out of meta

They added Glacial heart back in. It’s no longer a slow.

I don’t know the specific reason why high-level teams aren’t running them, but I’d suggest that there are a couple factors at play:

1) As others have stated, the Hammer Meditation build received a mix of buffs and nerfs this patch, while many other builds across various professions received straight offensive and defensive buffs. This just naturally makes it less appealing in the new meta, even if the build itself still works fine.

2) Bunker Guardians have found their way back into the meta, so the support that the old Hammer build offered to teams (e.g. Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage) is no longer something exclusive. If my understanding of the previous meta is correct, bunker builds fell out of favor due to the prevalence of “bruiser” builds like Shoutbow and Cele Ele, which could hold a point while also dealing considerable damage and winning 1v1 fights. Bunker Guardians essentially needed their team to babysit them and kill opponents who engaged on the point, while Bruiser builds were more self-sufficient and only needed help when multiple enemies engaged simultaneously. Teams still wanted the support that Guardians provided, however, and so the Hammer Meditation build became part of the meta as a bursty, resilient teamfighter that could hold its own while helping its allies. With bunkers back in the meta, however, there’s more access to Guardian support and less demand for the original niche the Hammer Guardian filled.

3) Hammer Guardian has even more competition in this meta as a burst build, and personally, I feel like there’s a lot of overlap in the role that Hammer Guards and Mantra Mesmers fill. Just to outline some of the ways that Mantra Mesmers compete with/edge out Hammer Guardians:

-Mantra builds also possess the ability to teleport in from long range and CC targets, but unlike Hammer Guardians, they’re not dependent on their teleport to compensate for broadly-telegraphed attacks. Hammer Guardians sometimes have a hard time bursting efficiently without JI, which is only up every 36 seconds, while Mantra builds have non-telegraphed options for controlling targets and only a 24 second cooldown on Blink.

-Mantra builds’ main AoE burst combo recharges in 12 seconds, while Hammer Guardians generally can’t go off more than once or twice per minute thanks to cooldowns on JI and Shield of Wrath. Mantra builds can also just burst harder than Hammer Guardians, since besides the incredible damage modifiers they have access to, their higher HP gives them the option to run a Berserker’s Amulet instead of Marauder’s, and they have more consistent Fury uptime (permanent, so long as they keep hitting people below 75% HP).

-Mantra builds have more blinds and better condi cleansing than Hammer Guardians. Most Medi Hammer builds can’t take Vigorous Precision anymore, but Mesmers still have access to their version of the trait, and they have healing on their Shatters in addition to the cleansing/blinding. Never mind all of the CC/Stealth/Invulnerability, and that they can trait to summon Illusionary Defenders when they successfully dodge. The Guardian’s sustain is still strong, but the point is that Mesmers don’t need to run glassy to achieve better burst.

-The Mantra Mesmer can’t provide Stability for its team, but it can still provide plenty of safe stomps for its team with Blinding Dissipation, Distortion/Inspiring Distortion, Portal, Chaos Storm, and its instant-cast CC. It also provides a bit of healing for its team via Inspiration traits.

-Mantra builds generally have better mobility than Hammer Guardians, since Blink is ground-targeted and on a shorter CD than JI, and Portal is always an option for the Mesmer.

Anyways, that’s my take on it. It’s not that Hammer Guardian is a bad build just because Glacial Heart is competing with Absolute Resolution now, but it’s become easier for other builds to offer the same things as the Hammer Guardian while being more specialized in their roles.

Saiyan.1704:

They added Glacial heart back in. It’s no longer a slow.

its in virtues traitline now instead of valor. The trait cant compete with absolute resolution. so basically they removed it from hammer dps guards

@Soryuju.8164

Thanks for that well said explanation.

Anti.9156:

its in virtues traitline now instead of valor. The trait cant compete with absolute resolution. so basically they removed it from hammer dps guards

I sometimes feel that our weapon traits are misplaced in the wrong lines, particularly hammer. It should have been put in either Zeal or Valor.