Guild Wars 2

First off, you should find a good group/guild to play WvW with. Preferably on that’s in contact with the server’s leadership. I’ve found it’s incredibly boring alone and following the zerg on any class. In a coordinated group, it’s amazingly fun though. You’ll have a purpose besides “follow the zerg” and you’ll be able to take advantage of target calling, etc.

Second, (here’s the long part) all of your weapon sets are useful in WvW.

Staff can be used to escort Dolyaks due to the speed buff.

Staff and Hammer can be used to clog up gates and small corridors to allow ballistas and friendly AoE to kill incoming enemies.

Hammer and Shield (SoA) can be used to knock enemies off of walls/siege weapons.

Scepter (#3), Staff (#5), Hammer (#5), and Shield (#5) can be used to keep enemies from entering their tower/keep portal to aid in defense.

Shield (#5) and Wall of Reflection can be used to protect siege weapons and allies.

Scepter and Focus can be used to attack enemies and siege on top of enemy walls or enemies trying to get into your towers/keeps.

GS and Sword can be used for decent damage at close range and gap closers.

Even Mace can be used to give allies manning siege weapons regeneration.

I’ve posted this in another thread but I think you’ll get more use out of it:

For the most part, WvW play is party/squad/zerg battles. In those situations, I use Scepter/Focus as my annoyance set and spam Scepter #1, Scepter #2, and Focus #4. When you see a low target, Scepter #2, then Scepter #3, then weapon swap, then Sword #2, then Sword #3, and finally spam Sword #1. I rarely even run a utility snare as it’s not needed but you can add something like Bane Signet or Signet of Wrath to keep them close.

In keep/tower defense situations, you should be on a siege weapon or protecting siege and incoming allies with Shield of Absorbtion and Wall of Reflection. If a gate/wall looks like it will go down, you should switch at least one of your weapon sets to Staff or Hammer to take advantage of a Ward.

In keep/tower attack situations, you can be on a ram/siege golem or you can be on dolyak/foe watch. When I do dolyak/foe watch, I spam Scepter #1, Scepter #2, and Focus #4 on foes on top of walls and/or foe siege. When you see someone trying to get in, use Scepter #3, then weapon swap, then Sword #2, then dodge in front of enemy (towards their portal), then Shield #5, then Sword #3. If they’re not dead by that point, the fellow players on your server weren’t helping you enough. If a foe gets into the keep/tower, that’s another defender they have to man siege and drop AoE on your head so your allies should be helping you here.

tl;dr: Using the correct weapon set for each situation is very, very important in GW2. Also, finding a good group/guild is very important for fun WvW play.

Thanks man, that is exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for! I just need to learn this class a little more I guess.

Guardians aren’t ranged at all.
So they have to play it that way.

Or get a fix.

Quick trick on the scepter for keep defense (or general WvW’ing), sneak up on the target and spam Orbs of Wrath. As the projectiles are about to hit the target, use Chain of Light to make sure they’re immobilized for the consecutive Orb of Wrath hits. Use Smite right after Chain of Light. My orbs crit for around 2-3k on lowbies. So if 3-4 hit the target, it’s enough to kill it.

Play with a group because the Guardian is neither viable solo, since everybody can outrun or kite you to death, nor is he decent in zergs because the Guardian is the only profession in this game that severely lacks any decent, viable and most important fun ranged combat.

Quite honestly, you will not achieve anything unless you have a fortune to spend on siege weapons/arrow carts to make up for your design flaws. Don’t listen to the guys claiming you can support. Guardian support is pressing a couple of buttons a couple of tims in a minute while spending the vast majority of the time waiting for your cooldons to refresh. You can support, but it is boring as hell and not rewarded at all so it is pointless for you, unfun and a waste of time since there is nothing to gain for you.

Stick to spvp until they finally realize how ridiculous it is to be the only profession in this game with lame, unfun and not viable ranged weapons and finally give the Guardian something like a rifle.

Don’t fool yourself. The only thing to learn is that the Guardian is beyond inferior in ranged combat and doomed to either spend a fortune on war machines or spend the majority of the time standing there like an idiot, while the other, not flawed classes are doing something fun. Go ahead. Try an awesome support build like the self proclaimed pros suggest you. See how much you gain, how many badges you will get. Pay attention to how much time you’re spending just waiting for your cooldowns to refresh. Then try an alt, Go for a Warrior. Watch how you get buried in badges for shooting people. Enjoy always having something useful to do while waiting for your cooldowns to refresh…but heck, you don’t even need them.

I sincerely don’t think you’re the problem. The problem is the Guardian’s design, that is obviously not made for large scale pvp viability.

@shedim: Just because you won’t take the time to learn your profession outside, don’t taint others’ perception of it. Classes are supposed to be about personal play style more than anything else and if you hate the guardian’s play style so much maybe you just picked the wrong class to play.

Guardian is a wonderful profession in WvW and any commander/leader on a map wants as many as he/she can get on his/her side. They’re too amazing where it counts in WvW.

kousei.5914:

First off, you should find a good group/guild to play WvW with. Preferably on that’s in contact with the server’s leadership. I’ve found it’s incredibly boring alone and following the zerg on any class. In a coordinated group, it’s amazingly fun though. You’ll have a purpose besides “follow the zerg” and you’ll be able to take advantage of target calling, etc.

Second, (here’s the long part) all of your weapon sets are useful in WvW.

Staff can be used to escort Dolyaks due to the speed buff.

Staff and Hammer can be used to clog up gates and small corridors to allow ballistas and friendly AoE to kill incoming enemies.

Hammer and Shield (SoA) can be used to knock enemies off of walls/siege weapons.

Scepter (#3), Staff (#5), Hammer (#5), and Shield (#5) can be used to keep enemies from entering their tower/keep portal to aid in defense.

Shield (#5) and Wall of Reflection can be used to protect siege weapons and allies.

Scepter and Focus can be used to attack enemies and siege on top of enemy walls or enemies trying to get into your towers/keeps.

GS and Sword can be used for decent damage at close range and gap closers.

Even Mace can be used to give allies manning siege weapons regeneration.

I’ve posted this in another thread but I think you’ll get more use out of it:

For the most part, WvW play is party/squad/zerg battles. In those situations, I use Scepter/Focus as my annoyance set and spam Scepter #1, Scepter #2, and Focus #4. When you see a low target, Scepter #2, then Scepter #3, then weapon swap, then Sword #2, then Sword #3, and finally spam Sword #1. I rarely even run a utility snare as it’s not needed but you can add something like Bane Signet or Signet of Wrath to keep them close.

In keep/tower defense situations, you should be on a siege weapon or protecting siege and incoming allies with Shield of Absorbtion and Wall of Reflection. If a gate/wall looks like it will go down, you should switch at least one of your weapon sets to Staff or Hammer to take advantage of a Ward.

In keep/tower attack situations, you can be on a ram/siege golem or you can be on dolyak/foe watch. When I do dolyak/foe watch, I spam Scepter #1, Scepter #2, and Focus #4 on foes on top of walls and/or foe siege. When you see someone trying to get in, use Scepter #3, then weapon swap, then Sword #2, then dodge in front of enemy (towards their portal), then Shield #5, then Sword #3. If they’re not dead by that point, the fellow players on your server weren’t helping you enough. If a foe gets into the keep/tower, that’s another defender they have to man siege and drop AoE on your head so your allies should be helping you here.

tl;dr: Using the correct weapon set for each situation is very, very important in GW2. Also, finding a good group/guild is very important for fun WvW play.

Perfect! I really don’t see why all these people in the guardian forums cry and cry about our class being nonviable! sure I don’t have a permanent ranged aoe option, but I do have Tome of wrath! ToW is godly!!! I get so excited when i pump 20 people full of aoe dmg, burning and weakness and cripple. Sooooo good. I love the scepter but yes i would greatly enjoy something like a rangers longbow or warriors longbow. But i am fine with out it. The only Time i feel kittened in that aspect is when I’m attacking or defending a fort/keep/tower, I can’t drop constant hard hitting aoe on their heads.

The point of the Guardian is to be the most awesome esstential class in WvW.

It does this in spades.

1-2 well played support Guardians can be the difference between victory and defeat even in a 20 vs 20 battle.

Staff : healing symbol with trait, AoE swiftness, AoE orb damage/heal (this can hurt like hell), Line of Warding is godlike and has MANY uses (try and use it on a keep entrance point and see how that enemy attempting to flee inside likes it).

GS : AoE pull and damage, extremely useful to catch some enemies or damage a bunch

Shield : bubble and protection !

Scepter : range and a root, can be useful, not the best range option, but it serves its purpose

Hammer : who never banished someone down a mountain? Ranged root on people fleeing, Warding for mass AoE or like Staff

Mace : healing, protection boon.

Sword, Focus & Torch : hehe… hum, yeah ok.

This is my usual build in WvW.

Guardians can turn around entire battles.
Only problem is that they don’t get tokens for it, haha

Keelin.5781:

Guardians can turn around entire battles.
Only problem is that they don’t get tokens for it, haha

Yes, that’s the biggest problem with playing Support right now. You make a huge difference, yet you get absolutely nothing. Even when I make sure to hit a bunch of people three times, I generally don’t get many bags or I simply forget about them. The loot system in WvW is a mess and I hope they’ll improve it soon.

I’m getting tired of all the self proclaimed pros telling me to l2p, Guardian is fine in WvW and I should reroll. The lack of ranged weapons occasionally shows up in pve, but it’s negligible. You don’t haveany issues in spvp as a Guardian, but WvW is a whole different story. This profession has severe flaws in WvW because of the lack of viable ranged weapons and the ultimates simply not fitting the class. You can sugercoat it as much as you want but it won’t change anything.

Dear TE, feel free to try WvW with your Guardian. If you encounter issues or situations where you don’t feel viable or you’re not having fun just don’t fool yourself lvling that things are going to change once you hit 80. Just have a look at how many players are complaining about the Guardian’s lack of ranged weapons. I doubt every single one of them is a noob who should l2p or needs other clowns to tell him how the game should be played and how to enjoy the game. The whole GW2 mindset was repeatedly described as everybody can play his profession the way he wants to, as far as I recall correctly. If so many people can’t play the Guardian the way they want to, what does this tell you?

@shedim: You’ve got an entire thread of people saying how amazing the guardian is in WvW and this isn’t the first thread. ANET said that every class would be able to do everything but they didn’t say ever class would excel at everything. They’ve always said that professions weren’t the normal ones and that they were built to cater to different play styles. The more you post the more I think you’d be much happier on a warrior.

I’m willing to bet that most people complaining about the guardian didn’t take the time to play through the classes during beta or first week to find the one that fit them. GW2 is a new take on classes but a lot of people still locked into old archetypes. For example, they see guardian, go “look a paladin”, and never put any more thought into their class selection. They expect it to be the tank when the warrior is MUCH better at traditional tank and then insist ANET change it when it’s their own fault for not researching their class selection.

@kousei: For me, personally, I didn’t roll a a Guardian because it looked like a “Paladin” or because I expected a tank. It was because Arenanet themselves said that this was the profession for people who liked healers.
And in WvWvW it didn’t exactly deliver on that.
Can Guardians make a difference in WvWvW? Yes, certainly. But you’re only rewarded for 50% of our skillset.
Are Guardians viable in WvWvW? Probably, yeah, but only in a rather narrow niche.

Guardians can’t shoot people on or from the top of keeps. That’s about it. I admit this irritates me at times, but I also know that zerging a keep without siege weaponry is an exercise in futility anyway. You’ll spend 20-30 minutes slowly watching all your people get arrowed to death, then eventually have to retreat.

Anyhoo, does it still feel a bit lame that guardians can’t do one of the things that all the other classes can? Yeah. Is it a game changer? Nope. And they DO need to offer rewards for support during zergs. This patch focused a lot of dungeons, so I’m hoping they’ll work on WvW for the next one.

Oh, and yeah wandering around alone in WvW is kinda lame. You generally just run into a group of 5-50 people and die (or run away and try to find a way around…and then die in a similar situation somewhere else). So if you can even get a small group of folks to regularly go with, it’s worth it. You don’t have to go join a 1k member guild or anything, just make some friends or nag your RL friends into playing.

Edit: And I figure the reason we don’t have a rifle/longbow/whatever kind of ranged weapon is because Wall of Reflection is probably the best skill in WvW, period. If they gave us a more viable ranged weapon that could zerg/defend keeps well, they’d probably take our WoR away.

Add a bow as a weapon for guardian, Fixed

Maybe add a trait that allows Guardians to summon spirit weapons onto keeps? The health on them would have to be lowered to compensate, but it’d be fun to play a “minion master” Guardian when defending.

Ynna.8769:

@kousei: For me, personally, I didn’t roll a a Guardian because it looked like a “Paladin” or because I expected a tank. It was because Arenanet themselves said that this was the profession for people who liked healers.
And in WvWvW it didn’t exactly deliver on that.
Can Guardians make a difference in WvWvW? Yes, certainly. But you’re only rewarded for 50% of our skillset.
Are Guardians viable in WvWvW? Probably, yeah, but only in a rather narrow niche.

If I recall correctly, they said Guardians were for those that liked to support and defend their allies. In fact, the original line they had on the site which has since been taken down was: “I’ll guard you. Let them come through ME first!”.

Finally quotes work for me! lol

shedim.8504:

I’m getting tired of all the self proclaimed pros telling me to l2p, Guardian is fine in WvW and I should reroll. The lack of ranged weapons occasionally shows up in pve, but it’s negligible. You don’t haveany issues in spvp as a Guardian, but WvW is a whole different story. This profession has severe flaws in WvW because of the lack of viable ranged weapons and the ultimates simply not fitting the class. You can sugercoat it as much as you want but it won’t change anything.

Dear TE, feel free to try WvW with your Guardian. If you encounter issues or situations where you don’t feel viable or you’re not having fun just don’t fool yourself lvling that things are going to change once you hit 80. Just have a look at how many players are complaining about the Guardian’s lack of ranged weapons. I doubt every single one of them is a noob who should l2p or needs other clowns to tell him how the game should be played and how to enjoy the game. The whole GW2 mindset was repeatedly described as everybody can play his profession the way he wants to, as far as I recall correctly. If so many people can’t play the Guardian the way they want to, what does this tell you?

@OP,

The guy quoted above is doing it wrong. While guardian has no meaningful range specs there are many different thing that you can do at any point during WvW.

Its a great WvW class that many guilds are critically short on. The amount of utility that it brings to the table is ridiculous and that’s why a lot of guilds are having their players roll them as alts.

Either Anet needs to add a good ranged weapon option to Guardians, or they need to start rewarding money and drops to people playing a support role. The way things currently are is a problem.

AnubisXy.5713:

Either Anet needs to add a good ranged weapon option to Guardians, or they need to start rewarding money and drops to people playing a support role. The way things currently are is a problem.

This I’ll agree with but it’s a completely separate issue than “is the guardian viable in WvW”. It used to be fine but it feels like they nerfed badge drop rates…

I’m a Guardian and I love doing WvW with my guild or with randoms I encounter along the way. I wouldn’t go out there trying to take on people alone because of how I play, but the things we can do DOES make a difference out there. I use the Scepter and Sword with Torch for off hand.

With the Scepter, I can chain opponents (#3) for others and/or myself and continue hitting them (#1 or #2 or even #4). Most of the time I chain them for players who are closer to them to finish them off. I can hit opponents from the keep wall (#1 or #2) or from the ground aiming high at the keep wall. I have 2 Spirit Weapons on me that helped me out quite a bit lately by destroying the enemy when I’m down so I can rally.

I use the Sword as a mix for closer combat or when all of the Scepter abilities are pretty much on CD. I’m spec’d for burning.

Some notes for Guardian (in WvWvW):

- Pulling people of walls with Greatsword pull (not as good as Scorpion Wire, but still possible).
- Reflecting insane amount of damge by putting Wall of Reflection in front of a sieged gate.
- Covering a retreat with numerous skills.
- Spamming healing (either mace or staff) with a friend Guardian at the gate, making sure everyone survives quite a bit longer.
- Being sturdy and thus being able to survive sticky situations, like rezzing a friend in need or doing a risky tactical charge (fearing foes, motivating friends).
- The staff. Is great. Huge area of effect, doesn’t require a target or LoS. In very laggy fights I use the Staff as observation device. Sometimes enemy players do not appear to you even if you’re right in front of them. Using your Staff auto-attack will reveal damage values for each person in front of you. Even if you don’t see the target, you do see the damage. Great way to know how many people there are in front of you.

Supporting, like critics said, something you can do non-stop. There’s some cooldowns. But I personally like that a lot, it gives me the time to observe the battle, to coordinate with my friends, to keep an eye on the situation. (People with siege-weapon duty tend to have a narrow-view.)

To those that say Guardians are only good fun when you get a siege-weapon in your hands. I like operating a siege-weapon, but normally I try leaving that to someone else. Tactically placing a Wall of Reflection every 24 seconds (trait it!) does way more than some guy pewpewing from a wall.

And on rewards: I let guildies with DPS classes pay for the siege-weapons. And I’m not to keen on rewards, I’ll get them eventually and that’s good enough for me.

Oh and shedim, it’s true that Guardians are not strong at range or in inflicting damage. But, to me, that means you rolled the wrong class. It looks like you try to convince people to hate the Guardian, like you are trying to deny their enjoyment, because you can’t get it.

Oh and really the last note.
Well said, kousei, every single post (in this thread).

kousei.5914:

@shedim: You’ve got an entire thread of people saying how amazing the guardian is in WvW and this isn’t the first thread. ANET said that every class would be able to do everything but they didn’t say ever class would excel at everything. They’ve always said that professions weren’t the normal ones and that they were built to cater to different play styles. The more you post the more I think you’d be much happier on a warrior.

I’m willing to bet that most people complaining about the guardian didn’t take the time to play through the classes during beta or first week to find the one that fit them. GW2 is a new take on classes but a lot of people still locked into old archetypes. For example, they see guardian, go “look a paladin”, and never put any more thought into their class selection. They expect it to be the tank when the warrior is MUCH better at traditional tank and then insist ANET change it when it’s their own fault for not researching their class selection.

So what? You’ve got entire threads complaining about the Guardian’s lack of ranged weapons, him having issues in WvW, his elites being kinda meh or people suggesting to finally give the Guardian rifles or bows.

What I absolutely dislike about this community is the elitist attitude of some people here. Do you honestly think I didn’t bother reading the class descriptions or picked a profession only because it might look similar to classes from other mmos. I rolled Guardian because I didn’t enjoy the warrior. While the Warrior is a great profession, it’s unfortunately very boring and bland to play as well. The Guardian on the other hand is more challnging, more fun because of combo fields and the support abilities. There’s nothing more boring in mmos than hanging in the back rows ans spamming heals or support spells and I am glad the Guardian’s support is based around being right in the middle of the fight. This is why I absolutely hate the tomes. Imho they are a step backwards, since they efftively turn you from a fun, creative combo field/boon/tactical use of utility skills supporter into something that Anet didn’t want in their game: Healbots. Allright, one tome can AoE nuke until everyones’ ears start bleeding from 20 seconds perma “Feel my wrath! Feel my wrath! Feel my wrath!”. The elites are disappointing because of their similarity, but I can live with that. I can still use the Charrzooka in Wv3, so it’s k.

The Virtues, well. I might not have understood how to use them right, yet but honestly, how’s a 200hp heal on 45 seconds cooldown at lvl 80 going to help anybody, anyway? unless specced to cleanse conditions it’s active is not worth bohering. I can see the uses of the other 2 virtues, but their cooldowns are insaney high, so Renewed Focus isn’t that appealing and pretty underwhelming. I’d rather pick a 4th utility skill than RF, tbh.

As far as I recall it’s nowhere stated that I’m going to be the only profession in this game that sucks in ranged combat because somebody thought it might be a great idea to give my only ranged weapon magical tennis balls that move in slow motion, as if a knight performing tennis serves with a wizard wand isn’t looking dumb enough, already.

I could live with the embarassing wand, if they sped up the balls so that you’re not hitting peple a couple of years later after you started attacking but the current lack of a viable ranged weapon option is keeping me from enjoying this class in Wv3 even though I like it in pve and spvp.

Basically what you are saying is:
-search the internet for detailed information about the profession because the information given at character creation and on the official GW 2 homepage is insufficient
-it doesn’t matter if you enjoy the class except for X and Y, if you do not enjoy certain things go reroll Warrior or a profession that has X and Y
-don’t play solo or with random people if you want to enjoy your Guardian in Wv3
- speaking out loud what you dislike about the Guardian is wrong because the Guardian has no flaws and is in fact absolutely awesome
- if you happen to dislike an aspect of the profession even though every other peofession but yours can be decent at that, then the profession is not right for you
-spending money on siege weapons in order to compensate for your lack of ranged combat is okay
-everyone who doesn’t enjoy the Guardian or is suggesting/criticising things is wrong and should reroll Warrior

There are some very valid complaints about the guardian that I would love to get fixed. Yours just aren’t in that pool. Now stop hijacking people’s thread just to QQ that you can’t play your class.

I will resume what the point of the guardian in WvWvW; absolutely dominating everyone on the server.

Myself i am a guardian player and i feel like a god among human. I easily win 3 vs 1 fights and 4 vs 1 fights. I can take the heat like crazy and survive, all peoples need to know is your not there to push a zerg at range with AOE. You need to know your role according to your build, you basically protect your squishy spell caster, you initiate combat and win battle with your high survivability.

Peoples that say that guardian suck in general need to either learn to play or learn to make a proper build. One thing to note is guardian is very gear dependent so everyone that say the class suck before hitting level 80 and not having proper gear should not come here and complain.

Oh and also dont be scared to switch weapons to close the gap on the enemies and set up combo for some faceroll attacks.

shedim.8504

I can see the uses of the other 2 virtues, but their cooldowns are insaney high

Actually, you get a trait through the Radiance line (15 points) that will refresh the CD on your Virtue of Justice with every kill. Since that virtue applies to all my allies when I hit it that’s some pretty sweet condition damage. Once you have it refreshing everytime an enemy drops? Well, let’s just say that Fire and Blood have become my Guardian’s “words”.

Natas.1306:

I easily win 3 vs 1 fights and 4 vs 1 fights. I can take the heat like crazy and survive,

Um what WvWvW are you playing and can I join you?

Because in my WvWvW there are 2 types of encounters. Zerg vs Zerg or Loner vs Zerg.

Usually the loner is doing PvE or on their way back to the action, sometime they have a friend or 2 with them but either way they have no chance at all. I never have small skirmishes. 1v2 3v1 2v4 man I would love to see this in WvWvW not to derail the thread but are you sure you are talking about WvW and not sPvP?

Smaller skirmishes tend to happen when servers have smaller supply camp parties apart from the main zerg. Happens quite often in jumping puzzles as well. All more common in the borderlands than Eternal Battlegrounds. EB tends to allow less roaming and is definitely more zergy.

Lokki: Sure add me in game we can chat there. My guild is recruiting so we welcome new members, and we play on blackgate.

kousei.5914:

There are some very valid complaints about the guardian that I would love to get fixed. Yours just aren’t in that pool. Now stop hijacking people’s thread just to QQ that you can’t play your class.

There are some very likeable people in this thread coming up with decent suggestions and intelligent, constructive criticism. You’re not one of them. Now stop acting like you know it all and everybody, who’s not sharing your point of view is either QQing or needs to l2play or reroll.

There seems to be two distinct styles of Guardians in WvW that do extremely well:

Valor/Honor heavy, in which you use shouts and generally roll highly aggressive, and
Honor/Virtue heavy, where you use consecrations to be more effective in a zerg.

I guess you could include spirit weapons as well, though I haven’t tried it to speak of its efficacy. It all boils down to knowing what role you’re effective at playing with your build, and given the specific circumstances. Just keep in mind you don’t have to zerg, if you don’t want to.

when defending while using a greatsword, jump off the wall and spin with whirling wrath amongst the enemy horde while moving back towards the door, go inside, repeat.

also with the right build we are the best with useing seige equipment, i know for myself i can take alot of punishment cause my health regen is better than any other class, even when i get low i leave and use sigil iam back at full health, also poping virtues and useing our elite to refersh then get back on it i can stay up for a long time.

Natas.1306:

I will resume what the point of the guardian in WvWvW; absolutely dominating everyone on the server.

Myself i am a guardian player and i feel like a kittenong human. I easily win 3 vs 1 fights and 4 vs 1 fights. I can take the heat like crazy and survive, all peoples need to know is your not there to push a zerg at range with AOE. You need to know your role according to your build, you basically protect your squishy spell caster, you initiate combat and win battle with your high survivability.

Peoples that say that guardian suck in general need to either learn to play or learn to make a proper build. One thing to note is guardian is very gear dependent so everyone that say the class suck before hitting level 80 and not having proper gear should not come here and complain.

Oh and also dont be scared to switch weapons to close the gap on the enemies and set up combo for some faceroll attacks.

This a thousand times. The funny part is people won’t peel off you and attack someone squishier either. They’ll keep attacking you while you just walk them into your zerg… I’ve lost count of the warriors that we’ve beat this way.

On your gear statement, I kind of agree but gear is so easy to get. I leveled armorsmithing with my character and have never had a problem crafting a new set every 10 levels. I will say that I think it’s dependent on the player to balance his/her trait build with gear so that you’re not too squishy with a Zeal/Radiance build or so you can actually do damage when running a Valor/Honor build.

If you enjoy playing a support class that gets absolutely no rewards for anything it does, then guardian is for you.

This game is not made for support players, that is why there are no tanks and healers, only the damage you can do matters here, and only damage gets rewarded.

Zsymon.8457:

If you enjoy playing a support class that gets absolutely no rewards for anything it does, then guardian is for you.

This game is not made for support players, that is why there are no tanks and healers, only the damage you can do matters here, and only damage gets rewarded.

I do plenty of damage while supporting, so I have no idea what you’re doing. Be aggressive, play smart, and you’ll do both with ease.

Zsymon.8457:

If you enjoy playing a support class that gets absolutely no rewards for anything it does, then guardian is for you.

This game is not made for support players, that is why there are no tanks and healers, only the damage you can do matters here, and only damage gets rewarded.

This I’ll have to disagree with. There are numerous ways to provide “support”. if you consider support to be a back-line healer, then of course you’ll get no rewards. also, in my opinion[read: IN MY OPINION], that is one of the least effective ways to play a guardian.

I play my guardian extremely aggressively, sporting 3k+ attack, 48% crit, and 3k+ armor, with 16k health. I stay on the front line with the warriors, spewing Might, Protection, and Regeneration nonstop. Am I supporting? Yes. Am I getting rewards? Hell yes.

Of course, there are many ways to play a guardian, but if you truly believe support gets you no rewards, you should do a bit more exploring with your guardian to find a good balance. No offense intended.

The fact remains that you get nothing for the actual support.
You are supporting people at the front-line with your boons, sure – but that’s not what you get rewarded for – it’s the damage that gives you tokens.
Problem is that everything i put into support leaves less room for things that DO give rewards – so there really needs to be something in place to account for that.

@Voltric (Why can’t I quote half the time?): It’s true that support (and control) is something you have to do in between damage in this game. This is true for every profession. Not everyone enjoys that as much as hanging back and being pure support, but that’s just the way it is.
Front line support can be effective and enjoyable, but it’s not really for me (and I especially dislike it in big zerg events, where you need near perfect play to pull it off).
So, bottom line, I agree with you, but I’d like to make two things clear.
1) If you’re doing support for 50% of the time (imaginary number) and you get Silver, you would have probably gotten Gold if you went full damage. Going full damage makes less of an impact on the overall battle, but gets rewarded more. That’s what’s annoying people to a big extent.
2) I started to play a Guardian because Arenanet said it was going to be the profession that would push the same buttons as dedicated healers for people who enjoy that. Fighting in the front line, occasionally doing bits of support in between damage, doesn’t really do that for me. I still like it, but I don’t love it. (Weirdly, this is less the case in sPvP.)

See two zergs in a stalemate in the distance. Swap out your skills. Target someone in the middle of the enemy line and use Judge’s Intervention > Hallowed Ground > Sanctuary > Tome of Wrath everything around you while your zerg rushes up behind you.

Rush in with a greatsword Binding Blade > Whirling Wrath > Wall of Reflection > Symbol of Wrath. Those who you just pulled are hurting and are running out of your symbol aoe, every ranged attacker nearby targets you and hits your WoR (hug that sucker), attacks that do get through are triggering your retaliation from your symbol. Your team rushes in behind you.

High risk, high reward.

shedim.8504:

Play with a group because the Guardian is neither viable solo, since everybody can outrun or kite you to death, nor is he decent in zergs because the Guardian is the only profession in this game that severely lacks any decent, viable and most important fun ranged combat.

The guardian is viable solo. I’m not trying to be elitist, but I seriously don’t know what else to tell you. If you’re losing to every class solo, then guardian is not for you, because the class is not that broken. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve watched someone try to kite away and attack, then I pop Wall of Reflection and they kill themselves.

In WvW my guardian is at the front of the pack using consecrations. Switch consecrations to ground targeting and spam spirit weapons if you want to stand in the back.

shedim.8504:

Quite honestly, you will not achieve anything unless you have a fortune to spend on siege weapons/arrow carts to make up for your design flaws. Don’t listen to the guys claiming you can support. Guardian support is pressing a couple of buttons a couple of tims in a minute while spending the vast majority of the time waiting for your cooldons to refresh. You can support, but it is boring as hell and not rewarded at all so it is pointless for you, unfun and a waste of time since there is nothing to gain for you.

No that’s for lazy guardians. Support is rushing in and putting up a barrier to revive someone before they’re defeated. Removing mass conditions with Purging Flames, Cleansing Flame, and Pure of Voice. Keeping people standing at the gate with Hallowed Ground. Taking out seige weapons with mass retaliation buffs. Protecting a singled out teammate with a mace and shield. If you’re worried about cooldowns on the staff, use the 20% reduced cooldown on two handed weapons.

shedim.8504:

Stick to spvp until they finally realize how ridiculous it is to be the only profession in this game with lame, unfun and not viable ranged weapons and finally give the Guardian something like a rifle.

I agree that the guardian doesn’t have a great ranged weapon, but we can do so much more than just dps. I’m not sure why you chose to be a guardian if you just want to dps.

I find funny how people defends something is not working as intended.

Main problem with Guardian in MvM is not the class itself, is that the supporting classes get no reward when doing their job. Which is a bad design but you want to see just dps classes killing themselves in the battlefield.

Then, or the fix the rewards being support or support classes like Guardian gets some nice ranged dps. Imo, first option is the smarter one.

About the class, yes, scepter sucks but Guardian is not there to do damage like i said before. I dont think Guardian needs some amazing ranged skills, that is not the rol i think. The problem is that when using the skills when supporting:

1. Long cooldowns. Most of the times you are waiting for the skills to be available. Class needs to be more dinamic.
2. Many skills (traits) are pure garbage in MvM due the sort range or long cooldowns again. Virtues are craps too. You find you got a lot of tools but many are useless.

Overall, and i love supporting classes, makes Guardian frustrating and boring in MvM.

If ArenaNet doesnt make any change soon, we wont see Guardians in MvM but in stronger guilds, casual or normal players will swap to a dps class if they already didnt do.

My thoughts.

No, it’s not the supporting not getting rewarded properly. It’s this class having a boring looking, boring to use and boring to play ranged weapon. The orbs just make me throw up every time I have to see them crawling slower than a snail towards the enemy. Seriously, a knight with a magical tennis racket including the tennis serve animation is just beyond ridiculous. Dunno about you but I didn’t roll Guardian to look like Anna Kournikova in plate armor every time I have to use my ranged weapon.

If you guys actually read the stuff I posted in other threads you should have noticed, that it’s not DPS I’m looking for. I’m merely looking for options, variety and something that is more fun than hauling pathetic glowing tennis balls in slowmotion across the map over and over again while in the meantime I can go to the gym, take a shower, walk the dog and cook a five-course meal before the first orb actually hit somebody. It’s not that the scepter is crap, it’s just not fun to me and we have exactly 0 other ranged options so either pick scepter or don’t have any ranged combat at all. I really do not understand why you folks keep opposing the possibility of getting a bow, rifle or pistol in addition to the scepter. You scepter fanboys would not even have to use it.

The Guardian is by no means weak in 1on1, but can be easily kited and he has weaknesses, which is fine. But he’s nowhere near to the unstoppable killing machine that’s melting faces to the left and right, unless you’re stomping undergeared and underleveled players in 1vsX , of course. I usually don’t have huge issues killing equally geared Guardians with ranged professions or escaping them, but maybe that’s because I know how to play one and what he’s capable of. The Guardian is perfectly fine in sPvP, but In WvW he has some serious issues and not being rewarded for being a dull buff-/healbot is not one of them.

I love playing my Guardian and he absolutely fits my playstyle, but the hideous scepter and his lame ultimates are really keeping me from fully enjoying the profession. Honestly, is it really that big of a deal to ask for variety and options, that I deserve getting trashtalked for?

I don’t think anyone is really against an extra ranged weapon for our profession, but that’s just no happening anytime soon.

I can’t seriously be the only one that have no issue at all with the guardian’s current role in WvWvW, can I? In offense we’re brilliant, there’s nothing more to say about that. On defense, we’re also good.

Buff up, slap on some retaliation (you don’t even have to trait for it…) and just hammer or swing (in case you got that greatsword) away at the gate from the inside. I can’t count how many I’ve killed that way because they’re all too eager to break down the gate. And with all the aoe spam going on, retaliation will take care of that. You have all the tools to be sturdy and able to remain where the hurt is a plenty, use them. Give that gate a beating from inside.

Difference between opposing extra ranged options and knowing what is REALISTIC when it comes to what can possibly happen considering arena net is already swamped with stuff to fix about the game.

I will welcome with open arms a new ranged weapons when the expansion comes. For now, I am asking for something more possible and realistic, and that is to fix the scepter.

Personally, I’ve given up on doing WvW with my Guardian for the time being.

It’s all just: Spawn, walk for 5 minutes, die to a zerg, rinse, repeat. The only combat I ever see is 50 man zergs. A limited ranged class is basically useless in those, unless you like repairing every 5 minutes.

WvW seriously needs more waypoints.

And, if you’re going to say how the Guardian can do this or do that… maybe include some trait builds or at least tips?

Wall of Reflection.
It doesn’t matter what build you are running. Just use it.

I find following the zerg solo is about the worst thing you can do. I also find how much I enjoy WvW is hugely related to how many friends I have on skype together while being in the same party. 5 is an ideal size as you can hit any of the small objectives. You’re also more mobile than the zerg and can accomplish quite a bit.

Anecdotal Evidence: Red Shard Overlook in Eternal BG was being held by another server, we decided we had to take it back. With Staff + Mesmer Portals, we were able to do quick supply runs to Speldan Clearcut and back to Mendan’s to build trebuchets that eventually knocked down the walls on the side.

We rushed past to take a look and found on the other side of the keep, Blue also made a hole in the wall with a treb from Orgrewatch in which you can pull the Castle Lord from. Msg the commander and use his shiny icon to organize a large push, we lead them to this hole and pull the boss. Before green knew what was going on, the Guild Lord was down. After we took back Red Overlook, we finally had territory and were able to move out and start assaulting Ogrewatch, Durios Gultch and Bravost.

Guardians aren’t that fun when it comes to keep defense or door bashing, but what you can do is focus on little things around the map that are more melee friendly, squad friendly but can then have huge effects of the outcome of the battle.

I run Hammer/Staff/Scepter/Shield and occasionally Greatsword with consecrations and have a great fun causing huge commotions at choke points.

When it does come to keep defense, scepter isn’t ideal. But why completely neglect siege weapons? Anyone on siege is more effective than range auto-attacking. Arrow Carts > Everyone’s AoE. Ballistae > Everyone’s single targets. If you’re manning the siege, you’re also in the perfect position to protect other siege machines. “I don’t want to use siege to feel viable!” then why are you playing siege warfare, which is what WvW is..