Guild Wars 2

I don’t know what’s wrong with my guardian’s GS2 (WW), I feel it supposed to be more powerful. Tested a lot in WvW last night. Even with full zerk gears (atk 3300+, crit 70%+ crit D 90%+) , the best number I got from WW is 4.5k (VS downed player to make sure all my hits land), average only 2.5-3k, and it’s pretty wired that I hit harder VS heavy armor than vs medium / light armor. However, by using same gears, when I use Hammer (exactly same status) MB, I can also hit 2-3k on average as well, and the biggest number I got from MB is 3.6K. But MB supposed to have only 1/2 damage of WW, why the practical difference is so much ????

Also if you watch Zaphel(GS) and OoZo (hammer)‘s video below, you can see Zephel’s GS only did 1.5-2k in most cases, you can barely see anything over 3k, in OoZo’s video, his hammer basically did 2.5-3k every time and the biggest hit is 3.8k. I know their build status might be quite different, but even though, the damage difference between WW and MB can be that much ??

Well, I suppose 30% of your WW hits won’t crit, so you won’t stack up the same kind of numbers as one good Might Blow proc.

( try testing again with “Save Yourselves!” to get some fury )

Also MB is a blast finisher, so I don’t know if you have some extra might stacked on average.

Not sure about damage difference between GS and Hammer, but given your stats, you should be hitting higher than that with WW. Like around 6-8k on crit hits. Can you post a video of your stats + doing damage in WvW or a level 80 zone?

70% crit is after SYS, used it everytime before I try WW or MB to test.

Tarsius.3170:

Well, I suppose 30% of your WW hits won’t crit, so you won’t stack up the same kind of numbers as one good Might Blow proc.

( try testing again with “Save Yourselves!” to get some fury )

Also MB is a blast finisher, so I don’t know if you have some extra might stacked on average.

Don;t know how to make video, but 6-8k is a never-reached number for me even in PVE. The biggest number I get from Orr is something close to 6k, but never over 6k. But with hammer it’s a totally different story.
Look at that 2 video other ppl post in same page, you should notice the difference.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Not sure about damage difference between GS and Hammer, but given your stats, you should be hitting higher than that with WW. Like around 6-8k on crit hits. Can you post a video of your stats + doing damage in WvW or a level 80 zone?

CRrabbit.1284:

70% crit is after SYS, used it everytime before I try WW or MB to test.

Tarsius.3170:

Well, I suppose 30% of your WW hits won’t crit, so you won’t stack up the same kind of numbers as one good Might Blow proc.

( try testing again with “Save Yourselves!” to get some fury )

Also MB is a blast finisher, so I don’t know if you have some extra might stacked on average.

Yeah, 70% is very high for it not to land a crit. I’m still very doubtful that your stats match up to your output. I need an SS or something to go off of because you should be hitting at least 2-3k higher on crits

Will take a few SS tonight, but before that, look at those 2 videos on this page, or just simply search guardian videos in yourtube (GS vs Hammer), you will find the result as I described.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

CRrabbit.1284:

70% crit is after SYS, used it everytime before I try WW or MB to test.

Tarsius.3170:

Well, I suppose 30% of your WW hits won’t crit, so you won’t stack up the same kind of numbers as one good Might Blow proc.

( try testing again with “Save Yourselves!” to get some fury )

Also MB is a blast finisher, so I don’t know if you have some extra might stacked on average.

Yeah, 70% is very high for it not to land a crit. I’m still very doubtful that your stats match up to your output. I need an SS or something to go off of because you should be hitting at least 2-3k higher on crits

CRrabbit.1284:

Will take a few SS tonight, but before that, look at those 2 videos on this page, or just simply search guardian videos in yourtube (GS vs Hammer), you will find the result as I described.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

CRrabbit.1284:

70% crit is after SYS, used it everytime before I try WW or MB to test.

Tarsius.3170:

Well, I suppose 30% of your WW hits won’t crit, so you won’t stack up the same kind of numbers as one good Might Blow proc.

( try testing again with “Save Yourselves!” to get some fury )

Also MB is a blast finisher, so I don’t know if you have some extra might stacked on average.

Yeah, 70% is very high for it not to land a crit. I’m still very doubtful that your stats match up to your output. I need an SS or something to go off of because you should be hitting at least 2-3k higher on crits

Hm, I’ll take a look at the video. But I haven’t played hammer enough to know the difference between MB and WW. That’s not the problem I’m trying to figure out I’ll leave that to hammer experts—but I just want to know why your WW is hitting so low. So I’ll wait for the SS to see.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Yeah, 70% is very high for it not to land a crit. I’m still very doubtful that your stats match up to your output. I need an SS or something to go off of because you should be hitting at least 2-3k higher on crits

Not really a question of it not landing a crit, but landing all 7 strikes ( or 14 if you include the projectiles ) as a crit to get your max damage output. Even with a 70% rate, that’s going to be a little rare.

I do agree those numbers seem a little low though – perhaps you were unlucky and kept running into tanky builds

hi,

I’ve using 0/5/30/30/5 AH build using hammer, I bought a GS two days ago to test out GS, I think I share the similar results as OP. I think hammer hit harder, despite most GS users claim otherwise.

I used to run full berzerker’s with a 10|0|30|30|0 build that had +10% on burning foes (GS and hammer sigils were force, if I recall). I could hit 3-6k WW’s in WvW and I remember several times clearing 10k in PvE (probably lots of might stacks and all that. I don’t remember the specifics, just the thrill of seeing 5 digits on an attack). MB was usually in the upper 3k’s and occasionally low 4k’s (probably again up-leveled opponents).

Have you turned melee assist off in your options menu? If you aren’t inside your target, WW does much less damage.

Don’t know this trick. Usually speaking I will leave melee assistance on when I play guardian and keep my self as close as possible to my target. Maybe it causes my hits miss a lot? But in other hand, if I turn off melee assist, it will mean I just give up to use GS1 in some point, ( GS swing is too slow, w/o melee assist it will miss all the time vs a good thief. they can always run to my back while I swing my heavy GS)

Have you turned melee assist off in your options menu? If you aren’t inside your target, WW does much less damage.

im half zerker/knight and only rarely go over 5k.
and thats with might stacks.
otherwise its 2500-3500.

Hm, maybe I’m wrong I’ll double check with myself tonight and if I get the results I expect I’ll post a vid

Test using the training dummies in the mists. That should give you repeatable results worth comparing.

I never hit above 5k on my WW either, but my build is different (0,15,30,20,5) with soldiers and knights gear. My crit chance is 45% and my crit dmg is +45 (for a total of 195% dmg on crits). For MB I crit in the high 3k range.

OK, here you go, I just did test at mist. Here is the result:
I choose Zealot’s Defense as comparison VS WW since both skills are same type (damage splitted by multiple hits)

According to Wiki:
Whirling Wrath — Damage (9x): 1,251
Zealot’s Defense -- Damage (8x): 888
Thus, theoretically, ZD should do 71% damage of WW.

Char has 2939 atk, 50% crit chance + 50% cri damage, neither GS or Sword skill traited, empower not selected, melee assist diabled.
For WW, I tried 2 ways:
1-stand inside golem circle to make sure all WW land (14 hits).
2-stand right beside the circle (9 hits as listed in wiki, and yes, it will hit 9x—checked through combat log)
And here is the result VS heavy golem (10x each):
ZD:
3028
2450
2826
2849
2852
3034
2620
3180
2900
3306
Average: 2905

WW (inside circle 14x hits):
3140
3871
3071
3935
3673
3040
4019
3578
3488
3158
Average: 3498

WW (right beside circle 9x hits)
2308
1929
2470
2604
2256
2202
2170
2530
2356
2122
Average: 2295

so ZD vs a full WW(14 hits) = 83%. If ZD vs a typical 9xhits WW = 126% (YES ZD hit harder than WW !)
Conclusion—- If ZD damage is right, then WW damage(even if max 14x hits) is ~15% lower than listed on wiki. If as wiki mentioned WW has 9 hits, then it has only 60% damage of what listed.

I think my test result now make sense to me, if us WW, you have to be inside the circle to reach the highest damage (still not high as wiki described), if you outside the circle (or partly outside which is most possible cases practically in pvp, then you probably can only do ~60% damage). Also the highest damage can only land to 1 target since it’s impossible to get 2+ target at same location all the time. But for Hammer MB, it doesn’t matter since it’s instant area landing, so everyone inside range will take full damage.

Look guys, if you don’t have at least 20 pts in Zeal, you’re not going to get the numbers.

There’s more to the line then just raw Attack Pwr, by which if you’re any kind of glass cannon you should have 3400+.

Dmg on Fire +10% Dmg
GS +5% Dmg.

Factor in 1-2 ticks of Vulnerability from Symbols and you’re at 16-17% +dmg.

Saying you’re a “glass Cannon” when you’re only 10 in Zeal… There’s alot more to Zeal then people want to recognize, because they have this notion that we can’t DPS…. but more importantly, that we “Need” at least 15 in Honor.

Also, do you have your Targeting Assist turned off? This will not allow you to get inside a target, which increases your likelyhood of all whirls hitting.

EDIT: It’s difficult to get 5.5+k’s on Warriors & Guardians with the GS. W/ a Hammer, it’s much easier. However, I can get 5.5+k’s on Light & Medium armor class that don’t have Protection up fairly regularly with GS.

Heavy Armor classes are more like 3.5k-4.5k. With protection up it’s more around the 2.5k-3k.

I get higher—but I realized why. I use Empowering Might + sigil of strength which gives me might stacks really quick and bump my avg dps.

I use both too, I realized my problem is I seldom WW inside the target circle, so I lose ~40% damage. but it’s not so easy to maintain inside the circle all the time.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I get higher—but I realized why. I use Empowering Might + sigil of strength which gives me might stacks really quick and bump my avg dps.

You want more damage? Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RruMhg5SZlI
Guardians aren’t designed to be glass cannon but as you can see, we are VERY capable at it if build and played correctly. This guy uses might of the protector with his heal skill giving him stacks of might which he uses to squeeze the jelly out of any1 who steps into his way.

CRrabbit.1284:

OK, here you go, I just did test at mist. Here is the result:
I choose Zealot’s Defense as comparison VS WW since both skills are same type (damage splitted by multiple hits)

According to Wiki:
Whirling Wrath — Damage (9x): 1,251
Zealot’s Defense -- Damage (8x): 888
Thus, theoretically, ZD should do 71% damage of WW.

……….

You are not taking in account the coefficients. Currently, the coefficient for WW isn’t really known.

Also, your stats are too low to get the big hits people talk about. We also do not know how you were traited. Were you taking advantage of 20% damage while the enemy is burning?

Blasino.3128:

CRrabbit.1284:

OK, here you go, I just did test at mist. Here is the result:
I choose Zealot’s Defense as comparison VS WW since both skills are same type (damage splitted by multiple hits)

According to Wiki:
Whirling Wrath — Damage (9x): 1,251
Zealot’s Defense -- Damage (8x): 888
Thus, theoretically, ZD should do 71% damage of WW.

……….

You are not taking in account the coefficients. Currently, the coefficient for WW isn’t really known.

Also, your stats are too low to get the big hits people talk about. We also do not know how you were traited. Were you taking advantage of 20% damage while the enemy is burning?

“(atk 3300+, crit 70%+ crit D 90%+)” Those are pretty high stats. What kind of stats are you talking about?