Guild Wars 2

The Whirling Wrath tooltip states:
Damage (7x): 2xxx
Number of Impacts: 7

As we know this skill inflicts 14 attacks; 7 large and 7 small. The small attacks are approximately 37% of the damage of the large ones. (325 vs 868 for example).

Against Retaliation with an average damage of 275 per hit in PvP this skill will deal around 3850 damage back to the Guardian per target with Retaliation attacked.

It is in fact possible to commit suicide by using Whirling Wrath against 3 enemies that are doing nothing except standing in a group with Retaliation. Push 2 to respawn.

I propose that this skill is changed to only have the 7 large impacts, the damage from the smaller ones is merged into the large ones. The skills is still susceptible to Retaliation against grouped AoE enemies but not to such a ridiculous degree.

I think 1925 damage from a full spin against each enemy with Retaliation is a little more acceptable than 3850.

That’ll be a dmg reduction for the skill since Virtue of Justice’s passive effect will proc less often, unless the dmg is compensated for this as well.

I think a reduction in Whirling Wrath burn stacking would be a positive change against the current burning insanity. Burn stacking across several professions needs to be toned down anyway.

I could list several items in solo pvp that may seem overpowered… it doesn’t mean it needs to be toned down… simply put, it’s unviable against any competent premade.

Burn Guards definitely don’t need turning down.. if anything, we need a buff to be viable in Tournament play. That can be said about other condi builds as well.

As for the OP, Retaliation has to be useful somehow. P/P Thieves, Rapid Fire, the game is balanced through certain inbalances. Retaliation is one of those balances. If not, certain things wouldn’t be fair because we wouldn’t have something that countered it.

WW is fine and doesn’t need a change. Don’t blindly Whirl in a group of Retal.

Retaliation is so abundant and in PvP it is essentially guaranteed, especially in a group fight.

No other melee skill lands so many small hits in AoE.

As for buffing conditions? Rofl… the easiest form of PvP game play with the least risk vs reward and easiest gear setups that require only one damage stat and offer the most forgiving play style for mistakes needs a buff? Seriously?

Well, at least your autoattack only hits once. Not counting on hit/crit sigils, mesmer GS auto on a target with retal deals actually more damage to the mesmer than to the enemy. Blurred Frenzy comes close, too.

Ezrael.6859:

Retaliation is so abundant and in PvP it is essentially guaranteed, especially in a group fight.

No other melee skill lands so many small hits in AoE.

As for buffing conditions? Rofl… the easiest form of PvP game play with the least risk vs reward and easiest gear setups that require only one damage stat and offer the most forgiving play style for mistakes needs a buff? Seriously?

Actually, it is currently the highest risk and reward setup. Against any competent shout cleansing team, you’ll do less damage and have overall less performance compared to power builds. Do you realize how many condi cleansing traits/sigils/utilities in this game are left unused?

Condi/Power/Tank etc are all meant to be equal and viable specs. Don’t get mad at me for something that Anet made. Besides there are some very easy 1 shot power builds of equal cheese so I wouldn’t even.

Your posts are for the most part utterly irrelevant to this thread, we’re not here to discuss the condition Guardian, you wanna talk about your viability or your personal success or failure as a player, you can do that in the condition Guardian thread you maintain.

Ezrael.6859:

Your posts are for the most part utterly irrelevant to this thread, we’re not here to discuss the condition Guardian, you wanna talk about your viability or your personal success or failure as a player, you can do that in the condition Guardian thread you maintain.

Just replying to your three questions bro. Hate to leave other people’s inquiries unanswered.

As per your response to my initial post regarding Retaliation, you can always run with a boon stripping Necro and Mesmer.

It just sounds like you want to 1v5 with Whirling Wrath’s 5k AoE dmg (10k with zerks) or 7k AoE condi dmg (that’s 1tick out of 3) and have little to no consequences.

Whirling Wrath should really be reworked, but I wouldn’t say that retal should be the primary incentive for doing so. It’s just a poorly designed skill in the first place; the fact that you have to stand literally inside your target hitbox for maximum damage output is a pretty clear sign of that.

Tbh the whole weapon screams of Anets gullible Guardian ideology of being first in, last out where you bravely leap in the middle of your enemies with #3 blinding them, pull them next you with #5, whirl around damaging them all with #2 and finally put down #4 and punish them with Retaliation. Just like Sanctuary and Shield #5, they were done with good intentions but the gameplay turned to be completely something else but were never reworked

Agree with the OP. Just remove the bolts and bake their damage into the base. They hit randomly and for smaller amounts of damage, but have a lot of negative side effects.

You can still get the effect bolts from the whirl finishers (not sure if they count for retaliation).

Don’t remove the bolts. It’s aoe condo clear, it’s more hits for virtue of justice for burning builds, it’s projectile burning when in a fire field…. If the enemy is using retal good fire them.. I would spin on an enemy that has retal be it with bolts or no bolts. What you’re saying here is " I want to take down an enemy that has retaliation because I can’t bother to wait 2 seconds before my burst."… Grow up and learn when to burst and when to not and stop coming up with these stupid ideas to nerf an already limited class! … OuR only damaging condo is burning .. And burning procs per hit .. Now you want to take away our burst of hits?? Your logic is flawed! Just wait out the retal before you spin like every other competent guard :/

The bolts go out on a whirl finisher anyway; the whirl finisher bolts are not tied to the base ability’s bolts. So all you lose is a few extra hits toward VoJ (it’s very rare for all the bolts to hit).

Definitely worth it for a nice quality of life improvement. Waiting out retaliation (which guardians can easily stack to 10+ seconds) is not always reasonable.

x indigo x.6981:

Don’t remove the bolts. It’s aoe condo clear, it’s more hits for virtue of justice for burning builds, it’s projectile burning when in a fire field…. If the enemy is using retal good fire them.. I would spin on an enemy that has retal be it with bolts or no bolts. What you’re saying here is " I want to take down an enemy that has retaliation because I can’t bother to wait 2 seconds before my burst."… Grow up and learn when to burst and when to not and stop coming up with these stupid ideas to nerf an already limited class! … OuR only damaging condo is burning .. And burning procs per hit .. Now you want to take away our burst of hits?? Your logic is flawed! Just wait out the retal before you spin like every other competent guard :/

Way to go resorting to personal insults because you can’t comprehend the idea of people having a different opinion to yourself.

It’s really great that we have such fantastic people like yourself in our community.

To address your concern over burn procs anyway; those 7 small bolts hit for 65 damage each in a condi build, they will proc VoJ twice assuming you have it traited with Supreme Justice for 689 burning x2. So 1833 damage between small bolts and burning.

And you’ll take 1925 damage in return from Retaliation. Still worth those procs?

Burn does not need to be toned down. It’s fine. It’s the only condition it has lmao, it’s not hard to counter.

@Mryul Wrong thread.

A Guard can lose a fight due to several reasons. Losing because of Retaliation isn’t exactly among the top 5.

Ezrael.6859:

x indigo x.6981:

Don’t remove the bolts. It’s aoe condo clear, it’s more hits for virtue of justice for burning builds, it’s projectile burning when in a fire field…. If the enemy is using retal good fire them.. I would spin on an enemy that has retal be it with bolts or no bolts. What you’re saying here is " I want to take down an enemy that has retaliation because I can’t bother to wait 2 seconds before my burst."… Grow up and learn when to burst and when to not and stop coming up with these stupid ideas to nerf an already limited class! … OuR only damaging condo is burning .. And burning procs per hit .. Now you want to take away our burst of hits?? Your logic is flawed! Just wait out the retal before you spin like every other competent guard :/

Way to go resorting to personal insults because you can’t comprehend the idea of people having a different opinion to yourself.

It’s really great that we have such fantastic people like yourself in our community.

To address your concern over burn procs anyway; those 7 small bolts hit for 65 damage each in a condi build, they will proc VoJ twice assuming you have it traited with Supreme Justice for 689 burning x2. So 1833 damage between small bolts and burning.

And you’ll take 1925 damage in return from Retaliation. Still worth those procs?

You add those retal damage calculation as if it’s GURANTEED. To hit me. Well surprisingly I’m one of those few and far in between that actually look at my enemies buffs before I press my attack buttons. If I see retal I don’t attack. So here is the real math for you:

1833 damage of burning (according to you) but. X5 cause I’d apply it to 5 people due to permeating wrath trait and good positioning.. So that’s a total potential dps loss of 9165 . And I wouldn’t hit players with retal cause DUUH .. So my damage would 0 not 1925 but rather 0.

So.. When played right ,bolts give 9165 dps and damages you for 0.

When played unwise but good positioning , deal 9165 dps and damages you for 1925.

When played right with bad positining , deal 1833 dps and damages you for 0

When played stupid ( the scenario you’re suggesting ) deal 1833 dps and get damaged for 1925

What’s different between all these situations ? YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT OF WHEN TO ENGAGE.

If played well massive boost to dps .. When played stupid you kill yourself.. That’s the definition of guardian mate.