Guild Wars 2

Every other class got sigils and traits except Guardian.

Why?

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

Anet have long held a stance that guardians are a slow class.

And that was ok back when classes had unique things that comprised them. However these are being phased out. Even mesmerized portals uniqueness has been lessened by items that can do the same.

Anet have directly stated that a passive movement buff for guardians is “not in the works”. It seems that for them to recognize that this is now a core mechanic for all classes would be to admit that classes are no longer unique.

HardRider.2980:

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

" a ton" are you kidding me? there is actually 1 skill with swiftness, 2 skills if u have a staff….

Only 4 professions have a Signet to grant 25%+ Movement Speed. This sacrifices a utility slot for something, in most cases, useless for the speed increase.

There are 8 traits for 7 different professions that give 25% Movement Speed, 6 of which have temporary conditions to meet before applying. (Warrior – with Melee weapons, Necro -with Dagger equipped/in Death Shroud, Thief +50% while in Stealth only Etc) This in most cases sacrifices a better trait or even a whole line, for the movement speed.

For everyone else, there’s Traveller Runes.

It’s going to make me sad replacing those nice runes Anet provided my 80-boosted Rev with cheaper movement speed runes. I just can’t take the slowness. I really don’t understand why all classes don’t have equal access to increased movement speed. There are other ways to make classes unique than to cripple some of them.

Really? Now you want them to have 25% passive movement speed?

Oh man……. ok, let’s simply make guards the ultimate super class and… or you know what, the only playable class in the game. Give them something from every class…. oh snap! that has already happened!

let me see… let’s give them perma-invulnerability…. noooooo, that has happened too!

I’m running out of ideas…

Nikal.4921:

It’s going to make me sad replacing those nice runes Anet provided my 80-boosted Rev with cheaper movement speed runes. I just can’t take the slowness. I really don’t understand why all classes don’t have equal access to increased movement speed. There are other ways to make classes unique than to cripple some of them.

But as a Revenant you have permanent swiftness with Glint Elite spec, which is what rounds off the Revenant… There’s no comparison spec for Revenant that doesn’t use Glint, it’s pretty necessary to run it.

Here’s an idea. Give Guardians a trait that gives +25% movement speed but put it in the Valor traitline as a grandmaster. Then watch as all the guardians get salty about having to sacrifice a traitline for +25% movement speed. Then they’ll realise why they should just be quiet and be happy with their adequate swiftness capabilities.

If you trait shouts with “Pure of Voice”, “Retreat” gives you swiftness 83% of the time. It’s way better than 25% speed something.

Ardid.7203:

If you trait shouts with “Pure of Voice”, “Retreat” gives you swiftness 83% of the time. It’s way better than 25% speed something.

In Pve ok but NOBODY traits shouts as a roamer. You lose your Mediation traits….

Personally, I think they should just increase out-of-combat movement speed by 25% for everyone. This should make swiftness a more relevant combat boon while removing the annoyance of having to waste traits or utility slots simply to move faster while you aren’t fighting things.

Ever heard of Runes that grant you 25% movement speed?

Toasa.1236:

Ardid.7203:

If you trait shouts with “Pure of Voice”, “Retreat” gives you swiftness 83% of the time. It’s way better than 25% speed something.

In Pve ok but NOBODY traits shouts as a roamer. You lose your Mediation traits….

You’re going to lose something anyway, since you either have to take it as a signet (bye bye 1 utility) or as a trait (possibly from a line you don’t normally take or it will replace something you need).

+1 Lahmia
Honestly guardians got tons of swiftness.
Guardian doesnt deserve a single minimal buff as it is atm.
And please you wanna qq about speed? ask mesmers how they feel, go on ill wait.

u got some movement skills aswell (gs leap, f2 leap, 2 shadowstep skills on target) etc. so no.

fyi: traveler runes?

As Ele I have many ways to maintain swiftness. The easiest is simply spamming the healing glyph with the air trait
Inscription
[Grants a boon associated with your current attunement when you cast a glyph. Reduces glyph recharge]
We also got the Signet of Air for +25% movement speed. With its active ability to deal damage, apply area blindness and now also vulnerabilty (8 stacks) for 5 seconds it is really fun to use.

I dont see why every class cannot have the +25% somewhere. You still would have to sacrifice a skill slot.

One of the few balance priorities this game gets good is the opportunity cost of travel movement vs fighting prowess: exploration and combat put over a scale, where the choice is yours. That is a really cruel, though and challenging choice, therefore, a meaningful, interesting and GREAT design choice.

Don’t forget that: flattening the speed all over the professions would only undermine variety, choices and, at the end, fun.

Let Guardians be “slow” if they must. They have a lot of movement skills to keep busy when traveling, and they are already a really strong profession. Don’t ruin it just to get an unbeatable combat build that will be boring and nerfed anyway.

Lahmia.2193:

Here’s an idea. Give Guardians a trait that gives +25% movement speed but put it in the Valor traitline as a grandmaster. Then watch as all the guardians get salty about having to sacrifice a traitline for +25% movement speed. Then they’ll realise why they should just be quiet and be happy with their adequate swiftness capabilities.

It would be more useful than retributive armor.

Perez.1670:

+1 Lahmia
Honestly guardians got tons of swiftness.
Guardian doesnt deserve a single minimal buff as it is atm.
And please you wanna qq about speed? ask mesmers how they feel, go on ill wait.

You implying mesmers don’t already have either perms swiftness or the chrono trait for moving 50% faster JUST for taking chrono line? Boon share mesmers will get 9s of swiftness JUST for having sig of inspiration on which is core to their build, every 10 seconds. That’s just the passive!

A guardian can use Staff to build near-permanent switftness. The swiftness stack lasts longer than the cooldown on the staff skill. So, each time the staff skill comes off cd, stop and build switfness.

Over time it’s possible to stack an impressive amount of quickness and run far and fast.

Ardid.7203:

One of the few balance priorities this game gets good is the opportunity cost of travel movement vs fighting prowess: exploration and combat put over a scale, where the choice is yours. That is a really cruel, though and challenging choice, therefore, a meaningful, interesting and GREAT design choice.

Don’t forget that: flattening the speed all over the professions would only undermine variety, choices and, at the end, fun.

Let Guardians be “slow” if they must. They have a lot of movement skills to keep busy when traveling, and they are already a really strong profession. Don’t ruin it just to get an unbeatable combat build that will be boring and nerfed anyway.

This is the most excellent explanation I have seen on the topic. Thanks.

Frankly, I would rather have more interesting options available to ‘grapple’ with an opponent than I would a passive RS buff on a trait or a signet.

Sorin Noroku.5342:

Perez.1670:

+1 Lahmia
Honestly guardians got tons of swiftness.
Guardian doesnt deserve a single minimal buff as it is atm.
And please you wanna qq about speed? ask mesmers how they feel, go on ill wait.

You implying mesmers don’t already have either perms swiftness or the chrono trait for moving 25 % faster JUST for taking chrono line? Boon share mesmers will get 9s of swiftness JUST for having sig of inspiration on which is core to their build, every 10 seconds. That’s just the passive!

Just because a build is flavor of the month doesn’t mean that it is what a profession have to run no matter what. Before the rise of the chronomancer a lot of mesmer were simply limited in the choice of their runeset to the traveler’s rune. This is just a fact.

Builds are supposed to be important and are made out of traits, utilities and weapons. Having to chose between mobility, survivability or damage is what bring balance to the game.

Complaining that the guardian lack a passive for mobility… Well the fact is that some guardian builds give some crazy mobility that you can never even hope to reach with all the passive mobility of the game. A good example is that a guardian, despite it’s lack of passive mobility, will easily outrun a necromancer (even if the necromancer take both it’s passive trait and it’s signet).

Passive mobility is convenient when you are lazy (like me) and don’t want to bother with generating your own mobility, however, the most efficient mobility will always be the active one.

PS.: I root for a passive mobility on the guardian but I can’t deny the fact that this profession already got the necessary tools to be extremely mobile.

PS².: Someone said that taking the legend glint was a given on the revenant. I disagree! Taking the Herald traitline help a lot and grant by itself some mobility tools but taking glint… Hell no!

Toasa.1236:

HardRider.2980:

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

" a ton" are you kidding me? there is actually 1 skill with swiftness, 2 skills if u have a staff….

You have Save Yourselves and Retreat. You also have a skill by using staff which stacks swiftness if you stay in the symbol for the duration. Guardians can apply perma swiftness so there’s no need. Of all of the classes, they’re one of the few that have easy access to swiftness.

Just add a sprint button that drains endurance.

It gives something and it takes something, and it makes the game feel more modern.
I’ve played mmorpgs with a sprint that drains endurance. They aren’t broken for it, and it adds excitement and fun.
Imagine not carrying any swiftness skills, and deciding to sprint to get to a boss or event just in the nick of time, but once you get there you are too low on endurance to have dodging available right away. Much drama, so excite.

^^ A reasonable, but likely generally dismissed option. People don’t like having to choose; they just want it all at their beckoned call.

Ayrilana.1396:

You have Save Yourselves and Retreat. You also have a skill by using staff which stacks swiftness if you stay in the symbol for the duration. Guardians can apply perma swiftness so there’s no need. Of all of the classes, they’re one of the few that have easy access to swiftness.

SYS isn’t a good utility to take for swiftness on builds meant to be useful. Retreat craps out enough swiftness.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

You have Save Yourselves and Retreat. You also have a skill by using staff which stacks swiftness if you stay in the symbol for the duration. Guardians can apply perma swiftness so there’s no need. Of all of the classes, they’re one of the few that have easy access to swiftness.

SYS isn’t a good utility to take for swiftness on builds meant to be useful. Retreat craps out enough swiftness.

I’m talking strictly about access to swiftness… I’m not talking about its usefulness for builds.

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m talking strictly about access to swiftness… I’m not talking about its usefulness for builds.

If you don’t care about usefulness of build then you can just run superior rune of the centaur, retreat, and pure of voice for 108% swiftness uptime and still have two other free utilities with no staff requirement.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

I’m talking strictly about access to swiftness… I’m not talking about its usefulness for builds.

If you don’t care about usefulness of build then you can just run superior rune of the centaur, retreat, and pure of voice for 108% swiftness uptime and still have two other free utilities with no staff requirement.

Again, I was speaking about access to swiftness. Going off on an entirely different subject with build usefulness doesn’t change that.

Ayrilana.1396:

Again, I was speaking about access to swiftness. Going off on an entirely different subject with build usefulness doesn’t change that.

It isn’t a different subject. Access to anything (boons included) doesn’t exist in a vacuum. There is almost no scenario where you have full utility choices but no traits/runes.

Gwaihir.1745:

Anet have long held a stance that guardians are a slow class.

And that was ok back when classes had unique things that comprised them. However these are being phased out. Even mesmerized portals uniqueness has been lessened by items that can do the same.

Anet have directly stated that a passive movement buff for guardians is “not in the works”. It seems that for them to recognize that this is now a core mechanic for all classes would be to admit that classes are no longer unique.

Maybe so but that argument kinda went away for me when they said Reapers were supposed to be “slow terror” like in old horror movies. Reapers move like the wind. :P

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again, I was speaking about access to swiftness. Going off on an entirely different subject with build usefulness doesn’t change that.

It isn’t a different subject. Access to anything (boons included) doesn’t exist in a vacuum. There is almost no scenario where you have full utility choices but no traits/runes.

It is. The post of the OP’s that I was responding to had zero reference to build usefulness. Please don’t bring in something that my post wasn’t event about and then use it to argue against said post. Thanks.

Since you are not reading the specific post I was responding to…

Toasa.1236:

HardRider.2980:

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

" a ton" are you kidding me? there is actually 1 skill with swiftness, 2 skills if u have a staff….

Ithilwen.1529:

A guardian can use Staff to build near-permanent switftness. The swiftness stack lasts longer than the cooldown on the staff skill. So, each time the staff skill comes off cd, stop and build switfness.

Over time it’s possible to stack an impressive amount of quickness and run far and fast.

i have a friend that farmed sw and had 3 mins of swiftness on guardian constantly.

Ayrilana.1396:

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again, I was speaking about access to swiftness. Going off on an entirely different subject with build usefulness doesn’t change that.

It isn’t a different subject. Access to anything (boons included) doesn’t exist in a vacuum. There is almost no scenario where you have full utility choices but no traits/runes.

It is. The post of the OP’s that I was responding to had zero reference to build usefulness. Please don’t bring in something that my post wasn’t event about and then use it to argue against said post. Thanks.

Since you are not reading the specific post I was responding to…

Toasa.1236:

HardRider.2980:

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

" a ton" are you kidding me? there is actually 1 skill with swiftness, 2 skills if u have a staff….

I did read the post. Guardian may not need +25%, but SYS isn’t a reason. Which appears to be part of your argument along standing still in a symbol. Saying SYS is a mobility choice because it has swiftness is like saying rifle is a defensive weapon for warrior because it has an evade on #4.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

King Cephalopod.7942:

Ayrilana.1396:

Again, I was speaking about access to swiftness. Going off on an entirely different subject with build usefulness doesn’t change that.

It isn’t a different subject. Access to anything (boons included) doesn’t exist in a vacuum. There is almost no scenario where you have full utility choices but no traits/runes.

It is. The post of the OP’s that I was responding to had zero reference to build usefulness. Please don’t bring in something that my post wasn’t event about and then use it to argue against said post. Thanks.

Since you are not reading the specific post I was responding to…

Toasa.1236:

HardRider.2980:

Because Guards already have a ton of swiftness applying skills.

" a ton" are you kidding me? there is actually 1 skill with swiftness, 2 skills if u have a staff….

I did read the post. Guardian may not need +25%, but SYS isn’t a reason. Which appears to be part of your argument along standing still in a symbol. Saying SYS is a mobility choice because it has swiftness is like saying rifle is a defensive weapon for warrior because it has an evade on #4.

You didn’t read the post otherwise you would have realized it was about access to swiftness. Save Yourselves has 10 seconds of swiftness thus it provides access to swiftness. Whether you agree that it’s a good option or not doesn’t matter as that wasn’t the point which I have repeatedly tried to get across to you.

Always said that the game should have a generic signet for all classes either util or elite with 25% move speed. PvE/WvW only skill just like the racial skills. Just because of this, make the activate power horrible, like a tiny heal and remove 1 condi, to make the other 25% move signets look good compared.

But just to give that convenience for everyone that wants it.

Main guardian, and while at times I do find the lack of a flat 25% annoying, it is easy enough to get past. Staff+retreat will get you 100% swift even without stopping to stack, so you don’t have to slow down, but you do have to activate skills off cooldown, which a lot of people don’t want to do.

Leveling a new Revenant I noticed how much I missed the Dragon form while leveling for the swiftness. But after experimenting with the other forms a bit, I found that the Dwarf form is surprisingly quick, it has a combo lightning field on low cooldown, pair it with any weapon except sword and you have a combo blast finisher on demand, to give aoe swiftness.

Ended up running Dwarf + Mace a whole lot, I can just run the lightning field forward and hit 3 for the double blast, permanent swiftness. But after 10 maps doing that, you get tired of it and just wants to put it on passive.

A large part of the wanting a 25% passive speed increase is about lazyness, not what can the class do. Guardian can have permanent swiftness from level 11 or 13 (iirc, first level with a utility skill unlock) if they want to. But spending the next 70 levels repeatedly hit 3 and 6 over and over to keep up that speed is going to get you really sick of it.

<3 my Traveler Runes, and I have WAY too many sets of it.

Toasa.1236:

In Pve ok but NOBODY traits shouts as a roamer. You lose your Mediation traits….

True, on the other hand guardian was supposed to be a low mobility class, yet your typical medi roaming build has pretty good mobility between sword 2 (or GS 3), Judges intervention, f2 leap with DH and then being able to reset the f2 with the elite, now sure you have to take traveler runes to get a 25% move speed, but really that is far more mobile than engy, necro, condi ranger, etc, and in terms of a burst of distance only thief, some warrior builds and staff/gs druid can actually keep in contact with a DH when they blow those things, so the idea of giving movement speed through traits or a signet to a class that is supposed to be low mobility and has already powercreeped its mobility, is well…

No one wants to be slow and sacrifice better obvious traits or runes. every class should just have the extra 25% speed movement and all other traits runes should give only 10% more. then it would be a fair choice. runnings travelers for 4 years is stupid and uncalled for. and as a roamer why would i spec for the shouts if they only give me that benefit when compared to virtues? IF shouts gave more healling then yeah.

It has to do with the concept that Guard is slow and highly survivable combatant when originally designed. Is that true nowadays? Not really.

I think it would be a cool addition to Zeal or Radiance lines, as these do not get used in PvP and 25% movement speed could give them some love their. In PvE it would be nice, so I do not have to slot Retreat from time to time. Though several classes do obtain their movement speed buff from a utility, thus DH would be at an advantage obtaining it nearly for free.

its balanced in pvp that guard doesn’t have swiftness but everyone saying how retreat and staff are viable in anything that isnt map exploration are soo wrong lolz

One of my favorite things in these forums is when two people go off topic by arguing semantics and pedantry then blaming the other for bringing up irrelevant topics first while a third person creates a meta post commenting on their argument by using a run-on sentence.

Ithilwen.1529:

A guardian can use Staff to build near-permanent switftness. The swiftness stack lasts longer than the cooldown on the staff skill. So, each time the staff skill comes off cd, stop and build switfness.

Over time it’s possible to stack an impressive amount of quickness and run far and fast.

Everyone knows this already just by looking at tooltip. It is also apparent that we need to stand in the symbol for Swiftness, an oxymoron in itself.

Nearly every class can build for perma swiftness, yet they all have the passive boost if they want it. Hell, some classes even have the choice between a trait and a skill. At this point it’s honestly just a QoL change, they could easily drop it on some unused signet or little used traitline if they don’t wanna buff guard in a combat scenario. Naysayers here are tbh just being ridiculous about it.

I think they should not give guardian %25 speed, but reduce other professions speeds. Not every profession should move fast, hit hard, tank well.

cranos.5913:

Nearly every class can build for perma swiftness, yet they all have the passive boost if they want it. Hell, some classes even have the choice between a trait and a skill. At this point it’s honestly just a QoL change, they could easily drop it on some unused signet or little used traitline if they don’t wanna buff guard in a combat scenario. Naysayers here are tbh just being ridiculous about it.

When Necros get the amount of leaps and shadowsteps as Guardians, then we can talk.

Lahmia.2193:

cranos.5913:

Nearly every class can build for perma swiftness, yet they all have the passive boost if they want it. Hell, some classes even have the choice between a trait and a skill. At this point it’s honestly just a QoL change, they could easily drop it on some unused signet or little used traitline if they don’t wanna buff guard in a combat scenario. Naysayers here are tbh just being ridiculous about it.

When Necros get the amount of leaps and shadowsteps as Guardians, then we can talk.

Thats not gonna happen ever. and its not even the biggest issue with that class

Mikhael.2391:

Lahmia.2193:

cranos.5913:

Nearly every class can build for perma swiftness, yet they all have the passive boost if they want it. Hell, some classes even have the choice between a trait and a skill. At this point it’s honestly just a QoL change, they could easily drop it on some unused signet or little used traitline if they don’t wanna buff guard in a combat scenario. Naysayers here are tbh just being ridiculous about it.

When Necros get the amount of leaps and shadowsteps as Guardians, then we can talk.

Thats not gonna happen ever. and its not even the biggest issue with that class

I know and I don’t particularly want it to happen. I’m just making a point.

Lahmia.2193:

cranos.5913:

Nearly every class can build for perma swiftness, yet they all have the passive boost if they want it. Hell, some classes even have the choice between a trait and a skill. At this point it’s honestly just a QoL change, they could easily drop it on some unused signet or little used traitline if they don’t wanna buff guard in a combat scenario. Naysayers here are tbh just being ridiculous about it.

When Necros get the amount of leaps and shadowsteps as Guardians, then we can talk.

lol compare 1 low mobility class with another for no reason? There’s rly no point in limiting ooc/open world pve movement tbh. Plenty of classes with more mobility than guardians have the passive.

Ithilwen.1529:

A guardian can use Staff to build near-permanent switftness. The swiftness stack lasts longer than the cooldown on the staff skill. So, each time the staff skill comes off cd, stop and build switfness.

Over time it’s possible to stack an impressive amount of quickness and run far and fast.

yeah but having to stop for swiftness kind of defeats the purpose of having swiftness

Slotting Retreat! is about the same as a movement speed signet; it gives +33% speed 20 secs out of 30, for an average +22% (also it gives aegis group wide, making it arguably way better than a signet).

With pack runes retreat is 26 secs every 30, for an average +28.5% movespeed. Pack runes are a bit more damage than scholars without the 90% life bonus, about the same as ogre runes.

With pure of voice retreat cooldown is 24 secs, giving you an average of +27.5% movespeed, or 108% swiftness uptime with pack runes, but keep in mind pure of voice kinda sucks unless you run a shout build (is that even a thing anymore?)

You can also use an offhand staff to pretty much have perma swiftness with staff 3 and retreat! (only stand on staff 3 when fighting stuff, so you have swiftness when moving around and you gain symbolic avenger bonus).

If you want to forget about it, just use traveler runes; they are cheap enough, and about 5% less damage than pack / ogre.