Guild Wars 2

Tsaritsin.5364:

My lvl 80 Guard wearing some fairly nice gear and her health boosted with trait points walks into WvW with 18-19k health,

My nice new little lvl 10 baby Warr with no trait points and starter armor walked into WvW rocking 27.5k health,

27.5K health is a lot.
My warrior doesn’t have that due to gear, and I got the traits – I got about 22.4K on lvl 80. Getting toughness/vitality gear at 80 – atleast crafted seems nearly impossible to get. Atleast I don’t have any exotic insignias for crafting that provides both.

What you’ll probably notice is that as you level up your warrior and head into WvW your health pool will be smaller, though your character will be stronger, due to traits.

Having a high health pool won’t do much against another level 80 since he has both the gear, and the traits as well as skills when heading into WvW.

ZoiN.4280:

Tsaritsin.5364:

My lvl 80 Guard wearing some fairly nice gear and her health boosted with trait points walks into WvW with 18-19k health,

My nice new little lvl 10 baby Warr with no trait points and starter armor walked into WvW rocking 27.5k health,

27.5K health is a lot.
My warrior doesn’t have that due to gear, and I got the traits – I got about 22.4K on lvl 80. Getting toughness/vitality gear at 80 – atleast crafted seems nearly impossible to get. Atleast I don’t have any exotic insignias for crafting that provides both.

Exotic Power+Vit+Toughness (which – outside of the base armor except the helm (orr temple karma sets) can only be obtained through a lot of dungeon tokens or WvW tokens) upgraded with Crest of the Soldier. Can hit a little over 21k with a Guardian and ~29k with a warrior.

Align with Vigil and vendors there sell rare versions for pretty cheap gold, and WvW sells the rare versions for karma.

As for the discussion at hand… there’s a thread about it every other day or so.

There is a problem actually but some guys are just taking honor/valor build to consideration about how guardian is OP in pure defensive build with twice lower hp than a warrior. While warriors have endure pain and so on and on seems like all forgot.

But what is broken is all other builds. Where you have 10k hp as an offensive guardian vs warrior with 20k hp (with 5x higher damage output which is easier to apply at the same time, yeah yeah charge with intel. rune then 100b, but there are also diff option to crit past 10k dmg and basically 1 shot a guardian).

So in this case it is impossible to do any pve with 10k hp at all. You MUST spec into tough/vit and accumulate tough/vit gear or you will get many and many headshots in dungeons. And if you want to do some damage in past “famous cof 2nd way farm” experience, you have to be prepared to go downed almost every encounter. Which just takes the right for a mistake from you.

Lumines.3916:

Warriors may be able to block pretty well with their Mace/Shield, but it has nothing on Mace/Focus (Focus alone can negate 4 hits). Guardians also have the most liberal access to Protection, Regeneration and Stability relative to all other classes; it also packs Blinds across multiple weapon sets. If they have both highest base HP AND armor with all this mitigation, wouldn’t that just be a tad OP?

Actually mace/shield warriors win the block game hands down and it’s not even close. 10 second cooldown Counterblow (8 if traited) is ridiculous, and Shield Stance is unlimited blocks (basically invulnerable) over 3 seconds on only 30 second cooldown. (24 if traited.)

The way balance seems to work in regard to defense is that guardians are hit more often but for less and whatever they’re hit for, they’ll regen it much faster. On the other hand, warriors have no access to Protection unless it’s in their gear so unless he’s buffed by another character he’s always taking the full hit. So it’s easy to say why the warrior needs a bigger health buffer, while the guardian does not. (And it would be overpowered if he did.)

Also, another thing I like with my guardian about defense is that I can easily share a lot of his defensive skills with other players, so if I’m not being actively attacked by a mob, I still have a lot of ways to protect my party, while a defense warrior would probably have to pull his off-set and do damage or support if he’s not being attacked because there’s no taunts.

i have 20 points in honor and 10 in valor, just for 20% cooldown on greatswords and condition removal every 10 seconds

Honestly if you guys think that melee is useless in dungeons as a guardian, youre doing it wrong.

I wield Sword+Shield (not even sword focus which has more blocking and blind) and greatsword.
-Virtue of Justice activation Blinds (and vuln)
-Virtue of Courage gives aegis
-Sword #2 Blinds (and vuln)
-Sword #3 blocks ranged
-Shield #4 has protection
-Shield #5 has range block and push
-Greatsword #4 has blind (and vuln, and has 20% faster cooldown)
-I bring Hold the Line for protection and heal
-I bring Save yourself for protection and heal

By using the above at the right times, Im able to stay in melee battle for a good long while “tanking”. This without sacrificing too much on the offense ability, its not a mace; its a sword one of the most powerful single target weapons a guardian can have. Greatsword is THE most powerful aoe weapons a guardian has. And all this for 20 in honor and 10 in valor. The rest of my points are 30 Radiance and 10 Zeal

All is takes is knowing what to use on what. Keep protection up, Hit the blinds and aegis or even Shield #5 to interrupt when you see a huge attack coming.

Im glad guardian isnt just a straightforward tank-with-stats class.
Im glad you actually have to carefully manage protection abilities and hit them at the correct times to stay alive.

When you introduce mechanics such as invulnerability, the concept of “using your health to defend yourself is the worst thing you can do” is thrown out the window because it is, in fact, the best thing to do. Why bother wasting your dodge meter when you can just pop endure pain, blurred frenzy and so forth.

They have a ton of healing and defensive abilities. My 80 Guardian only has about 13k hp in WvW because I’m using alot of dps gear, but my toughness is over 2000 and I’m always the last to go down in a fight. If you gave me more hp I’d pretty much would be invincible.

There’s absolutely no way. Toughness does nothing to defend against conditions and while we have many removal abilities, you won’t be able to dispel them all. And please tell me what defensive abilities when compared to the rest? Shield of wrath blocks three attacks which is relatively easy to break with either quickness or short AA. Shield of Absorption? Doesn’t do a thing against stability and leaves you vulnerable for that duration. Healing abilities such as VoR? Maybe 100 a tick with a nice active but once it’s on cd…then what?

This isn’t to bash the profession but ask what in comparison makes it on par or even better?

Chii.2814:

i have 20 points in honor and 10 in valor, just for 20% cooldown on greatswords and condition removal every 10 seconds

Honestly if you guys think that melee is useless in dungeons as a guardian, youre doing it wrong.

I wield Sword+Shield (not even sword focus which has more blocking and blind) and greatsword.
-Virtue of Justice activation Blinds (and vuln)
-Virtue of Courage gives aegis
-Sword #2 Blinds (and vuln)
-Sword #3 blocks ranged
-Shield #4 has protection
-Shield #5 has range block and push
-Greatsword #4 has blind (and vuln, and has 20% faster cooldown)
-I bring Hold the Line for protection and heal
-I bring Save yourself for protection and heal

By using the above at the right times, Im able to stay in melee battle for a good long while “tanking”. This without sacrificing too much on the offense ability, its not a mace; its a sword one of the most powerful single target weapons a guardian can have. Greatsword is THE most powerful aoe weapons a guardian has. And all this for 20 in honor and 10 in valor. The rest of my points are 30 Radiance and 10 Zeal

All is takes is knowing what to use on what. Keep protection up, Hit the blinds and aegis or even Shield #5 to interrupt when you see a huge attack coming.

Im glad guardian isnt just a straightforward tank-with-stats class.
Im glad you actually have to carefully manage protection abilities and hit them at the correct times to stay alive.

So you give up all your support to not die and do less dmg then a warrior? What is the point then to be a supporty fighter if you can’t do it. Guradians are punished in every possible way only becaus they where pretty strong in the first bw. Dunno if you ever looked up other classes but it is even easier for a engi or thief to speck into dmg and life then for use.
Valore tree is the only dmg boost we have and it all goes over burnning and 2h sword. Burning is in dungones like not really a dmg source as pretty much every other class can do it aswell and will take the buff from you. 2h is meh if you want to be any use for your group. you can pull stuff together blind and give a bit vengence. It is just stupied that a-net gives us hugh heals but takes everything else and then is like btw heals have long cd becaus we don’t want a healer class.

I gave up no support. My utility consists of shouts. Last time I checked they affect teammates, on a range that pretty much means youre buffing ALL of them most of the time.
And sorry if trying to live longer sounds so bad to you but the way I see it the longer I stay on the mobs face, the safer everyone else is and the more sustained damage I deal. Burst damage isnt be all end all.
If someone else on the party is gonna bring burning I dont care, burning for me is there to activate my Zeal Adept Trait to deal 10% more damage to burning targets. Radiance is there for easily available blind, increased criticals and increased damage on foes with condition.

Oh and I dont pull targets when i use GS #5. It deals damage per tick and id like to leave it as that. I only pull to try to interrupt something huge or to try to pull a mob away from my squishier teammates. People should learn to use their skills at the right time, all those long cooldowns should be screaming this to players already.

My trait lines allow for staff and hammer too. Especially hammer, Protection on #1, along with 3 control skills are just sweet

Hurf hurf. Y u make other caracters OP anet omg

Guardians have lower base HP but the regeneration from Virtue of Resolve makes up for it. It all else fails, the heal from it as well. Don’t even need to mention all the other sources of regeneration the class has free access to. At the end of the day, you’ll have around the same amount of hit points to spend, probably more.

Arken.3725:

There’s absolutely no way. Toughness does nothing to defend against conditions and while we have many removal abilities, you won’t be able to dispel them all. And please tell me what defensive abilities when compared to the rest? Shield of wrath blocks three attacks which is relatively easy to break with either quickness or short AA. Shield of Absorption? Doesn’t do a thing against stability and leaves you vulnerable for that duration. Healing abilities such as VoR? Maybe 100 a tick with a nice active but once it’s on cd…then what?

This isn’t to bash the profession but ask what in comparison makes it on par or even better?

Conditions are never a problem for me, I actually like them. Contemplation of Purity turns them all into boons, and then I spec so I do more dmg for each boon I have. Plus you have Signet of Resolve with cures one every 10 seconds, and to top it off Smite Condition.

When it comes to defense you have so many abilities it’s ridiculous:
Signet of Judgement
Sanctuary
Wall of Reflection
Shield of Avenger

And I’m not even counting all the shouts that give you stability, retaliation, protection, etc. Oh and let’s not forget your virtues.

Guardian are extremely hard to take down if the person knows what they are doing.

Sanctuary is also nullified from stability, wall of reflection is easily passable, Shield of the avenger is also passable. You’re not taking into account the simplicity it takes to just walk through and continue fighting while your skills are on cd.

warrior banner/shout healing builds and their access to viable ranged….

That’s why you use them with other skills.

Sanctuary+Hallowed Ground
WoR/SoA + Ring of Warding/Line of Warding

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Hurf hurf. Y u make other caracters OP anet omg

Guardians have lower base HP but the regeneration from Virtue of Resolve makes up for it. It all else fails, the heal from it as well. Don’t even need to mention all the other sources of regeneration the class has free access to. At the end of the day, you’ll have around the same amount of hit points to spend, probably more.

have you not rolled a warrior and seen how much regen their healing signet gives them?

Harbinger.8637:

That’s why you use them with other skills.

Sanctuary+Hallowed Ground
WoR/SoA + Ring of Warding/Line of Warding

that’s a lot of long cooldown stuff to be popping at once

Dixa.6017:

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Hurf hurf. Y u make other caracters OP anet omg

Guardians have lower base HP but the regeneration from Virtue of Resolve makes up for it. It all else fails, the heal from it as well. Don’t even need to mention all the other sources of regeneration the class has free access to. At the end of the day, you’ll have around the same amount of hit points to spend, probably more.

have you not rolled a warrior and seen how much regen their healing signet gives them?

Your point being? A guardian doesn’t use up a slot for it.

Dixa.6017:

Harbinger.8637:

That’s why you use them with other skills.

Sanctuary+Hallowed Ground
WoR/SoA + Ring of Warding/Line of Warding

that’s a lot of long cooldown stuff to be popping at once

That’s why theres traits that reduce CDs and make the ability last longer.

This thread is a perfect example why ANet shouldn’t listen to the forum whines when it comes to balancing.

Harbinger.8637:

Dixa.6017:

Harbinger.8637:

That’s why you use them with other skills.

Sanctuary+Hallowed Ground
WoR/SoA + Ring of Warding/Line of Warding

that’s a lot of long cooldown stuff to be popping at once

That’s why theres traits that reduce CDs and make the ability last longer.

and yet warrior healing signet is substantially higher passive regen than anything guardians have AND is a heal on a 20s cd vs. 40s for guardian. and on a class with viable ranged and 20s cd shouts that grant huge healing when used…

hrm…..

Dixa.6017:

and yet warrior healing signet is substantially higher passive regen than anything guardians have AND is a heal on a 20s cd vs. 40s for guardian. and on a class with viable ranged and 20s cd shouts that grant huge healing when used…

hrm…..

/facepalm

and you cant even craft power vit tougness gear, only way to get that kind of gear is for grinding dungeons, honor badges or kama

why would you facepalm that? warrior can run around full time with a rifle or longbow and not kitten themselves. you run around full time with a staff or scepter as a guardian and you ARE kittening yourself

just use two melee weapons you say? just did an event in an asura area. it’s not a group event. escort a busted golem and take out the inquest that sabotaged him. event spawns a giant. this giant chain pbaoe knocks down and pbaoe fears. you can not melee him. at all. and here i am with gs/mace+focus unable to do ANYTHING to the giant.

yep..good show, anet.

Dixa.6017:

why would you facepalm that? warrior can run around full time with a rifle or longbow and not kitten themselves. you run around full time with a staff or scepter as a guardian and you ARE kittening yourself

just use two melee weapons you say? just did an event in an asura area. it’s not a group event. escort a busted golem and take out the inquest that sabotaged him. event spawns a giant. this giant chain pbaoe knocks down and pbaoe fears. you can not melee him. at all. and here i am with gs/mace+focus unable to do ANYTHING to the giant.

yep..good show, anet.

/double facepalm

Ramza, how about giving some positive criticism instead of useless posts.

Arken.3725:

Ramza, how about giving some positive criticism instead of useless posts.

Been there, done that.

Then stay out of this thread. We don’t need you crapping it up with useless posts. I agree, a lot of what’s suggested is a little over the top. But I do agree to some extent with some of them. Particularly about the ability to truly block and mitigate damage.

Quoting and then replying, “been there, done that.” Isn’t helping the discussion. Give some input. I honestly believe that having a one time block(aegis, blind) isn’t exactly up to par against an ability giving invulnerability.

If you are dieing more oftenly that other professions in any situation, don’t blame Guardian’s HP. Blame your playstyle. I’m (almost) always the last man standing in dungeons/events/pvp (well, in pvp it depends if I don’t get nuked by 7 players simultaneously). Use any kind of Aegis smartly, not just spamming it randomly. Same story for Virtue of Resolve…
Guardian are very well balanced, no need of higher Health Pool

I never said I was dying. I was just giving my input on the current play style. Virtue of Resolve is pretty much spammable when you and your party are a bit down on health anyways.

Don’t you understand that one particular build is not what the class supposed to be?
In the current state you almost absolutely MUST to build around toughness/vitality.
I’m talking about OTHER options. And there are none.

Because warriors already do everything else better. And even invulnerabilities with 30k hp and THE SAME toughness as guardian with shouts and battle standards is more viable than our heal/buff bot build which all found OP. And if you think that aegis is better than their invuls – you are very wrong. Not to say even rangers have more invuls than guardians.

You better talk why our offensive/semi defensive builds are bad. Why should we run with 13k hp and 5x lower dmg than a warrior with 27k hp and endure pain and so on (i.e. invulnerabilities) in WvW? Can you shoot ppl from your scepter for 15k damage in WvW? Why warriors can do it from their riffle? Can you do 20k damage from 100b? 10-15k from Eviscerate? Are you really do not know the numbers? As being 80 for 2 weeks already I pretty clearly see the diff at cap with full exotics sets.

I am talking about WvW and explorable dungeons. I can understand though why all the whine about guardians in point defense game in sPvP. But again I see no warriors with tough/vit builds (because 100b, eviscerate and some more are so big numbers they just don’t play anything else). And necromancers can do a better job at it also.

There is no problem – nerf this particular build but make everything in line then.
And do not answer about how many regen and protection you can stack in your honor/valor/virtues build with max toughness/vitality gear. Class is not supposed to be a one trick pony.

If Guardians would get same hp base as warriors, I would reroll in a heartbeat.

Guardians are by far the hardest thing to kill for me (warrior) and I rather just run away from 1v1 against them than try to hit that brickwall.

OP obviously doesn´t know how to play his class, if he has survivability issues.

@Diem.4976:
No self-respecting warrior uses 100B tbh.
It´s Sword/Axe or sword/shield warriors that people should be afraid of.
100B is so easy to get away from.

The reason is because of utility. Think of the “health pool” as a gas tank for a car. We’ll say Car (A) is a warrior and Car (B) is a Guardian. Now, at first glance, most people will notice that Car (A) has a gas tank that can hold up to 35 gallons of gas, while Car (B) can only hold up to 12.

But then, upon doing some more research, you start reading how Car (B) has tricks it can do.. things like a button you push to make it operate at it’s full ability but only consume half the gas. Sometimes it can offer you one or two miles without consuming any gas at all! And it even has the ability to artificially create it’s own gas within itself giving you more instead of consuming.

nallez.6419:

If Guardians would get same hp base as warriors, I would reroll in a heartbeat.

Guardians are by far the hardest thing to kill for me (warrior) and I rather just run away from 1v1 against them than try to hit that brickwall.

OP obviously doesn´t know how to play his class, if he has survivability issues.

@Diem.4976:
No self-respecting warrior uses 100B tbh.
It´s Sword/Axe or sword/shield warriors that people should be afraid of.
100B is so easy to get away from.

there is more to the game than the random 1v1 in WvWvW

in the WvWvW zerg game a warrior is a lot more enjoyable to play than a guardian if the dynamics of the fight require you to spend most of your time at ranged

in explorables the shout healing build or banner healing builds + the boons those banners give can not be ignored. a warrior could – in a tough dungeon – go longbow+rifle and not kitten themselves. not so for a guardian for whom the best group utility is tied to all melee weapons (except some in the staff)

perhaps some like to think that the gimmick, soon to be fixed virtue of justice blind spamming build is the way to go in explorables. yeah? do sorrows embrace. oh i almost forgot, a thief with a pistol offhand does it better because they do not require a killing blow for their blind ability to reset.

i don’t see how the lower health is compensated in the least. i’m playing both classes btw.

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Dixa.6017:

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Hurf hurf. Y u make other caracters OP anet omg

Guardians have lower base HP but the regeneration from Virtue of Resolve makes up for it. It all else fails, the heal from it as well. Don’t even need to mention all the other sources of regeneration the class has free access to. At the end of the day, you’ll have around the same amount of hit points to spend, probably more.

have you not rolled a warrior and seen how much regen their healing signet gives them?

Your point being? A guardian doesn’t use up a slot for it.

technically neither does a warrior. healing signet is also their heal ability and has HALF The cooldown of the guardian condition removal+heal healing ability.

Dixa – The amount of health that you get from actually activating healing signet is so small, that its barely worth actually activating it, since as soon as you activate it and goes on cooldown the passive health regeneration dissapears.

Even if the cooldown is half as long, the amount of health actually provided by healing signet is not going to save anyone from dying if you are already dying as a warrior.

Dixa.6017:

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Dixa.6017:

Y u mad its vydia.6324:

Hurf hurf. Y u make other caracters OP anet omg

Guardians have lower base HP but the regeneration from Virtue of Resolve makes up for it. It all else fails, the heal from it as well. Don’t even need to mention all the other sources of regeneration the class has free access to. At the end of the day, you’ll have around the same amount of hit points to spend, probably more.

have you not rolled a warrior and seen how much regen their healing signet gives them?

Your point being? A guardian doesn’t use up a slot for it.

technically neither does a warrior. healing signet is also their heal ability and has HALF The cooldown of the guardian condition removal+heal healing ability.

Guardian has some of the most powerful condition removal in the game in the form of an aoe condition purge thats useable every 10 seconds known as the greatsword…

Im not sure why people are complaining about warrior health pools. in PvP i love getting a warrior 1v1 or hell two warriors at once. They think they can stand toe to toe with a guardian and win. That simply isn’t the case. Ethier that or all the warriors i fight don’t invest in toughness. I run a 20 Zeal (Fiery wrath & greatsword damage) 25 Radiance (signet mastery & searing flames) 20 Valor (Mediation Cooldown -20% & every 10 seconds loose a condition) and 5 in virtues. my pvp gear is 6 Runes of the Forge and one rune of Divinity. i have Runes of Earth slotted in my Greatsword and my Scepter with a +5 to crit rune in my torch. and Earth Runes in my Trident and Spear. i have Knights Amulet Slotted with a Berzerker’s gem. I sit at 19235 health. I use the healing signet, the damage reduction signet, CoP, Jugement’s Intervention, and tome of Curage (only because their is no better opition the other two elite skills are sub par imo) Warriors health pools are not the issue. Nor is it their damage. Play with your gear. Find out what play style works best for you. And pay attention. i just wish we ran faster holding a weapon…..

ok i see a lot of regen and numbers being thrown around in here.. so as a guardian i feel that i need to add in my opinion on the matter…

Do guardians need some more health at base? Yes
Do guardians need some more power? Yes

Do we regen health in battle? Yes but if not traited and stacked for it its very low and easily negated by conditions.

Are we hard to kill if played correctly? Yes, but all classes are that way.

Other Classes cant regen health and lack our healing skills, so we need less of everything else? Wrong, If a Warrior can mow down his opponent in 10 seconds and avoid another battle for 4 or 8, he’s right back to full health. A guardian may take 2 to 6 times longer to win the same battle, and the longer a fight goes on the more likely either side is to lose.

Guardians still need some serious work and tweaks before we find our absolute correct slot in Gw2. PvE, sPvP, and WvW.

First of, all of my Guardian experience comes from Solo’ing, Im a Solo’er, it’s what I do. Mainly because I play at non-peak times.

@ANmara.3146 -This is a PvE Issuse.

@ neithan.9750 – Yes a Guardian was my first Lv 80, I have an Ele thats 52 and a 68 Mesmerer also.

I realise the defensive slot/trait potential of mitigating damage, I just think it needs balancing.

I’ve never been able to chain kite 6 mob and a veteran with my Guardian but I seem to be able to do it with my Mesmerer. It just doen’t seem right that such a defensive class can’t take as much damage without speccing fully defense, and not being able to kill your enemies as well as a “support” class.

I hadn’t realized this thread got so big or I would of responded more quickly. I’m glad I started a debate about this as I feel it needs to be talked about.

If guardian had the same health as warrior, they would be so overpowered. In comparison guardian has much much more survivability than warrior. Warrior has nearly 2x the health because they do not have the amount of defensive skills as guardian does.

So guardian mitigates damage by their array of condition removals and defensive skills. Warrior mitigates damage by having a large health pool.

This thread is like asking why doesn’t warrior have the amount of condition removers and defensive skills as guardian hah.

Abbehemoth.2471:

I can NOT die in 1vs1. No class or build can kill me 1vs1. Why should Anet make us immortal gods?

You must not PvP A lot than.

Besides, this thread was designed based on PvE issues, not a PvP one to begin with but people keep on spinning it towards that.

I’ve said it elsewhere in this thread, the Guardian is a very strong class. If you guys are envious of the Warrior’s HP & Damage, then by all means, go play a Warrior. If you want survivability and are willing to trade off some damage and health to do it, then you’re fine with the Guardian.

As an aside, I don’t see what the obsession with Power, Toughness, Vitality gear is. This completely ignores Precision which is also a massive help to the Guardian…especially if you put points into the Valour line which gives a bit boost to your Critical Damage.

Just go and do some research and find a mix that gives you some balanced stats. I recommend Knight’s, Valkyrie & Rampagers will give you a solid armour rating, decent HP, good damage & a very nice crit chance.

I suppose technically a mix of Soldier’s armour (pow, vit & toughness) with Rampager’s jewelry might provide a similar stat mix, but would likely be a little heavy on the Power & Precision side of things.

Power gives more extra damage per point than precision or +crit damage. Theres already a page where you can find damage formulas.

There is clearly not much of an issue in terms of sPVP. I’m doing completely fine right now with just under 20k hp doing quite decent damage in sPVP. The main area at which this problem lies is within PVE and to some extent WvWvW due to the lack of similar amulets like the ones available in PVE.

All of my short life, I’ve mostly been playing both support and tanky classes in literally every single MMO that I’ve got my hands on. This has also been one of the main reasons to why I chose to main a Guardian. Just like many other people, I came to the assumption that the Guardian was a very tankey class out of the 8 and that naturally it would fit those people who prefer to play classes with a lot of tankiness in them. Some people including myself just love to have massive amounts of HP. Welcome to my HP fetish!

Putting that aside, though the “holy trinity” has been so called removed, you guys have made is seem that the game still pretty much relies on Guardians to mitigate damage for parties in areas such as Dungeons as you guys have claimed they can do very well. A lot of the people prior to my post have been going on about how the Guardian has a lot of damage mitigating skills that make them avoid damage altogether. While this is completely true as Guardians do in fact have a largish array of such skills, it’s near impossible to pull off most of the time as a lot of these skills have quite long cool downs compared to other skills. An example of this is with the skill “Shield of Judgment” which grants the user a 5 second burst of Retaliation which gives the user a 33% reduction in damage taken. While this does sound great, it does have a 30 second CD meaning that it cannot be maintained a lot of the time. Adding onto this, having a lower HP pool means that the amount of total damage taken is less than a Warrior for example having a large HP pool even under the effects of this skill.

Adding even more onto the case of Warriors, Guardians who wish to do around the same damage as a Warrior have to sacrifice a lot of defensive traits and stats in order to do the same. The idea of this game is to have every class being able to do anything yet this completely breaks that as Warriors are able to pull of X while Guardians can pull X off however with the loss of Y. – Though I am not saying that HP increase is needed for PVP, the amount of burst damage that a Warrior can do in comparison to their HP is absurd when put aside other professions such as the Guardian.

There are also a large array of different heals at a Guardians disposal but once again, these can only be used once every so often due to CDs. Dodging is also another thing similar to this. You can pretty much only dodge twice every roughly 10 seconds or so (not sure exactly) meaning that once again the player is left open to damage. Warriors do also have a HP regen signet which as some people have claimed, apparently heals more than the virtue available to the Guardian.

I’ve probably made a complete mess of my point as I genuinely suck at putting my points across but all I’m trying to say is that at least in PVE, Guardians need to have a slight HP increase. While they have heavy armor like Warriors, they might not need HP on the same level as Warriors, but maybe perhaps in at least the mid range of HP pools along side Rangers and Mesmers.

I understand that a lot of people have been saying that a HP increase isn’t needed for the Guardian due to their extensive damage mitigating skills, however this isn’t always the case as just like other skills these skills do have long CDs and cannot even be used for the majority of the time.

Thanks – A little kid who wants a HP increase (PVE only really) OR Nerf other class damage slightly perhaps?

I’m seeing a lot of complaints about Warriors vs Guardians from people who obviously haven’t played both… If you feel the Warrior to be stronger simply play one. The two classes are different, they’re not supposed to be the same.

The healing available to a Warrior is a fraction of that available to the Guardian which is the reason Guardians have a low HP pool… The idea of Guardians with Warrior HP is just silly and makes Guardians as a fledgling community look whiny,

I just finished AC Explorer run using GS and Sword/Torch… There’s not a problem here.

We only need a medium amount of HP close to Rangers and Mesmers in PVE only. I recon that would fix things nicely.

Marlafox.8715:

with a +5 to crit rune in my torch.

that does absolutly nothing. +crit doesnt works in offhand or maybe even at all.

Honestly I think it depends a bit on how you set up your guardian. My guardian has maxed out toughness traits, maxed power traits (with the GS attack heal trait) full set of superior rune of guardian, and a GS with +toughness and +healing power mods. His utility skills are the signets that buff power, reduce incoming damage, and increase healing, and Hounds of Balthazar to draw attention away at bad times. Against pure damage, I have to actively try to die, but the moment conditions are slapped on me, I drop faster than a thief trying to tank.