Why the Guardian is always nerfed?

Why the Guardian is always nerfed?

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Posted by: Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

Anet seriously, what the hell have you done with the Spirit Weapon? You have decided to make sure that the Guardian does not use the most? give us other abilities or arrange it, so why not make sense. Without Trait, disappear if we use the special move, they die in one to two attacks in fractal high level and do not do anything sensational (except the shield that was the only really useful).

In the next patch! you want to do? we raised Aegis? or Protect? delete the guardian and do before. Let’s turn this game in “Guild Warrior 2”

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

Hmm, guardian is one of the best classes in the game and certainly one of the two most played. Yet you make it sound like they are the worst class.

BTW, they fixed some important traits people will actually use (well, maybe once AH gets nerfed…).

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Posted by: Alarox.4590

Alarox.4590

Hmm, guardian is one of the best classes in the game and certainly one of the two most played. Yet you make it sound like they are the worst class.

BTW, they fixed some important traits people will actually use (well, maybe once AH gets nerfed…).

Every former tank/healer in any game is probably interested in the Guardian when they come over, and it just so happens that the best build (and one of the few good ones) is all about tank/support.

If you’re satisfied with 1 build (which people of tank/healer origins seem to be) then the Guardian will seem 100% perfect to you. If you want to have any kind of originality or if you want to do something other than be a damage sponge and buff allies, then the Guardian is filled with problems and is sub-par. (By ‘you’ I don’t actually mean you")

Alarox – Human Guardian
Rampage Wilson – Charr Engineer
Sea of Sorrows

(edited by Alarox.4590)

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Posted by: Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

the issue is not whether the guardian is strong or not, the problem is that we have made four utility USELESS. The’m trying to see if by applying bonuses during the fight can become useful, but it’s useless for now ….. Used in PVE die in 2 sec

I am not say anything when they nerfed the guardian to make it less strong in general. But this is to have disintegrated a whole range of skills

(edited by Arthas Zeitgeist.9062)

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

the issue is not whether the guardian is strong or not,

Sure it is, you titled your post “Why the guardian is always nerfed?”

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Posted by: Ramiah.5648

Ramiah.5648

I am really shocked about this. It was what made our pets unique. Now we are just like necromancers… except our pets have limited duration and die when we use their secondary abilities.
And I agree with Alarox. A little piece of what made guardian unique died today, and with it, a little piece of what made Guild Wars 2 unique died as well. How much longer before they remove all the abilities (or parts thereof) that are different than your standard MMORPG stuff?

Thy faithful servant asketh for thy blessing. Honor us with the splendor of thy song.
Protect us… Holy Song!

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Posted by: Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

I ask because it is constantly being nerfed? Now the class was quiet, because the have had to remove something that was already little used?

The guardian is a strong class, but we have four utility practically useless! If they wanted to change, they could have done to implement something like “vigourous precision”.

If I wanted to say that the guardian was not strong post was “Why the guardian is always nerfed when in fact it sucks?”

(edited by Arthas Zeitgeist.9062)

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Posted by: Yaki.9563

Yaki.9563

Guardian is always nerfed because it is one of the strongest classes. Your only surprise should be that it isn’t AH or EM that has been nerfed. Why they bothered with spirit weapons is anyone’s guess, but to suggest that Guardians are completely undeserving of any nerf whatsoever is ludicrous.

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Posted by: Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

Arthas Zeitgeist.9062

But you read what I write? the problem is that nerfed! instead of making all the skills of the guardian to an acceptable level let AH build to a higher level and all other skills must suck. From what you write I understand that you are not a Guardian but simply a Guardian Haters <__ <

Guardian us we shall be also strong, but we are all the same ….. we may also change traits but always 2-3 shout use. <_ <

(edited by Arthas Zeitgeist.9062)

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

The only reason why they nerf them is because some meta players in spvp had one in their team true story , “Were watching the meta and we think its kinda going where you’re talking about ~ Jonathan sharp”. This is a perfect example why they should elaborate on why they nerf things like this that none use. At least they were already useless (except the shield) so doesn’t matter. but some other nerfs like wrathful spirits and greatsword just make no sense wrathful spirit is still useless after the nerf. However those were useful before the nerf note useful not overpowered.

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Posted by: Relentliss.2170

Relentliss.2170

I guess being useful is being OP in this game.

Going by their current track record, I fully expect any skill that raises us above a totally untraited Guardian will be nerfed eventually.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional

Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)

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Posted by: knbBlackTemplar.3059

knbBlackTemplar.3059

Because guardian is overpowered immortal godlike holy knight?

80’s: Sylvari Necromancer (Main). Human: Thief, Warrior (PvP Main), Engineer. Charr Guardian

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Posted by: Tim.9850

Tim.9850

They most likely get nerfed as long as people keep accepting the nerfs as ok. You always have people defending the nerfs.

There was no need for the spirit weapon nerf. Its bad enough we have to use up two slots for them, and they last such a short time, and swing/attack so little.

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Posted by: Yuno.2061

Yuno.2061

Because guardian is overpowered immortal godlike holy knight?

From A’net POV, apparently….

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Posted by: Rhogall.4179

Rhogall.4179

Guys … obvious troll is obvious

Tezz The Relentless – Vertically Challenged Guardian
Ilario Ciarenni – Mesmerizing Human Mesmer
[TEO] The Exalted Ones

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Posted by: tanshiniza.8629

tanshiniza.8629

The issue here is that we have 2 viable builds which are Monk and AH with which you either go Bunker or damage (balanced is possible with some work). A lot of our traits are next to useless and the same can be said for some (not all) of our skills.

Guardian is one of the most balanced classes in game as they are strong but by no means OP. I really don’t like how people are saying to nerf EM and AH because without healing (that is our classes thing just like a thief has stealth and a warrior has insane DPS) we would be so underpowered we may as well just stop playing a guardian.

We have survivability, it’s what we do and I have to say there are plenty of other classes out that could do with a buff and others that need a nerf.

We really just need our pointless abilities and traits fixed then we are good to go.

Calm Caril – Level 80 – Guardian
“Jim’ll Fix It and if he doesn’t it’s not broken”

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Posted by: RAVVSlathotep.5463

RAVVSlathotep.5463

While it is an exageration, I get the feeling that this is just the beginning of the Guardians’ nerfs.

The following will be a tl;dr that just states what almost everyone knows, dipped in a bit of OPINION.

As every Guardian knows this class has a very restrictive meta: we have dozens of skills but only a couple are actually useful.
If we’re ingenius enough, we could squeeze 3 viable builds out of the Guardian: AH, SW and perhaps the Monk, as tanshiniza.8629 said.

Now, because of this horrible nerf, spirit weapons have lost its use which, ironically, goes against Anet’s Guardian philosophy of Control class, the same way the Necromancer is in no way a class of attrition, unlike the Thief.
With this, we are down to 2 builds. Now, this would be considered bad and restrictive in many games BUT in GW2 it means that we are still one of the best classes.
Why?

Because most classes are even worse off:

-the Elementalist has no viable PvE build and getting kicked from a dungeon party due to being an Elementalist is a common occurrence. It is also the class that takes the most skill to play well;
-the Engineer has 1 build for PvE and PvP and are in no way versatile like Anet’s philosophy states. Note that the Engineer used to be better but went through nerfs, the same way we’re going through now;
-I’m gonna be honest and say that I don’t know if the Ranger is decent or not but popular opinion says it’s FUBAR and that, like the Elementalist, you have to outskill others to reach the same objective;
-no amount of skill will save the Necromancer from being the lowest tier class. There’s only one build that is remotely useful and it restricts the movements of every other party member;
-the Thief. I bet you’re having a giggle right now because of me mentioning the Thief as a class that’s worse off than the Guardian but I’ll explain. While the Thief is the no-brainer, high tier class of GW2 alongside the Warrior, the Thief’s attrition build outshines and outperforms every other and since nobody is going to gimp him/herself, the Thief only has 1 build, even if being mediocre with it outperforms almost every other class.

I left out the Warrior and the Mesmer. Everything the Warrior does in PvE is almost always viable and, while they aren’t as good in PvP, they still pack a mean punch when paired up with others and they are also really easy to play.
Now the Mesmer is different: it started out as a versatile class, got nerfed the same way as the Engineer and now the Guardian, and is now slowly recovering.

As you can see, people call the Guardian overpowered because, as a class, it used to be a good, strong, well-built class, unlike most other classes. The thing is, those who call the Guardian OP don’t understand that the issue isn’t with us, but with every other class, but since it’s easier to simply nerf one class instead of fixing half a dozen, Anet did just that. We will be mediocre like almost everyone else because it’s the easy thing to do.

The only thing that we can do is not stab eachother and present the truth in a respectful fashion. Don’t expect them to admit they’re wrong, just hope they don’t kill another class off and force us all to reroll a baby-mode Warrior.

EDIT: missing a word in the Ranger section.

“Even though the beginning is followed by the end, the end still draws the future.”

(edited by RAVVSlathotep.5463)

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Posted by: Ganzo.5079

Ganzo.5079

While it is an exageration, I get the feeling that this is just the beginning of the Guardians’ nerfs.

The following will be a tl;dr that just states what almost everyone knows, dipped in a bit of OPINION.

As every Guardian knows this class has a very restrictive meta: we have dozens of skills but only a couple are actually useful.
If we’re ingenius enough, we could squeeze 3 viable builds out of the Guardian: AH, SW and perhaps the Monk, as tanshiniza.8629 said.

Now, because of this horrible nerf, spirit weapons have lost its use which, ironically, goes against Anet’s Guardian philosophy of Control class, the same way the Necromancer is in no way a class of attrition, unlike the Thief.
With this, we are down to 2 builds. Now, this would be considered bad and restrictive in many games BUT in GW2 it means that we are still one of the best classes.
Why?

Because most classes are even worse off:

-the Elementalist has no viable PvE build and getting kicked from a dungeon party due to being an Elementalist is a common occurrence. It is also the class that takes the most skill to play well;
-the Engineer has 1 build for PvE and PvP and are in no way versatile like Anet’s philosophy states. Note that the Engineer used to be better but went through nerfs, the same way we’re going through now;
-I’m gonna be honest and say that I don’t know if the Ranger is decent or popular opinion says it’s FUBAR and that, like the Elementalist, you have to outskill others to reach the same objective;
-no amount of skill will save the Necromancer from being the lowest tier class. There’s only one build that is remotely useful and it restricts the movements of every other party member;
-the Thief. I bet you’re having a giggle right now because of me mentioning the Thief as a class that’s worse off than the Guardian but I’ll explain. While the Thief is the no-brainer, high tier class of GW2 alongside the Warrior, the Thief’s attrition build outshines and outperforms every other and since nobody is going to gimp him/herself, the Thief only has 1 build, even if being mediocre with it outperforms almost every other class.

I left out the Warrior and the Mesmer. Everything the Warrior does in PvE is almost always viable and, while they aren’t as good in PvP, they still pack a mean punch when paired up with others and they are also really easy to play.
Now the Mesmer is different: it started out as a versatile class, got nerfed the same way as the Engineer and now the Guardian, and is now slowly recovering.

As you can see, people call the Guardian overpowered because, as a class, it used to be a good, strong, well-built class, unlike most other classes. The thing is, those who call the Guardian OP don’t understand that the issue isn’t with us, but with every other class, but since it’s easier to simply nerf one class instead of fixing half a dozen, Anet did just that. We will be mediocre like almost everyone else because it’s the easy thing to do.

The only thing that we can do is not stab eachother and present the truth in a respectful fashion. Don’t expect them to admit they’re wrong, just hope they don’t kill another class off and force us all to reroll a baby-mode Warrior.

I was writing the same thing just now, but after read you post, i have only to say that you have anticipated me.

And if someone have any doubt about the lazy balance attitude.
Just go to read the patchnotes of the last 5 months.

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL

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Posted by: tanshiniza.8629

tanshiniza.8629

I agree with RAVVSlathotep 100% on this and for a second lets compare GW1 to GW2.

GW1: more fun and viable builds than you could shake a baby quaggan at.

GW2: 1-3 viable builds for each class (3 if you are seriously lucky).

It isn’t each individual class that need a fix nor is it down to buffing or de-buffing classes. It really is about sitting down and taking a good hard look at everything that class is supposed to be, looking at traits/skills that are used or considered useless and potentially remaking things.

Calm Caril – Level 80 – Guardian
“Jim’ll Fix It and if he doesn’t it’s not broken”

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Posted by: Ganzo.5079

Ganzo.5079

I have a question to the players that was in beta (i buyed the game at launchstart, the 28 august).

Was the classes (the guardian mostly) so unbalanced at that time, to require so heavy changes? i remember my friends that was playing on beta, they where all entusiast of the overall game balance.

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL

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Posted by: RAVVSlathotep.5463

RAVVSlathotep.5463

I have a question to the players that was in beta (i buyed the game at launchstart, the 28 august).

Was the classes (the guardian mostly) so unbalanced at that time, to require so heavy changes? i remember my friends that was playing on beta, they where all entusiast of the overall game balance.

We lacked too much stuff in the beta weekends (especially time) to find the proper meta but when you’re low-mid level you don’t have much of a problem with class imbalance. Now when you’re high level and all you have is time on your hands… That’s when you begin to notice things.

“Even though the beginning is followed by the end, the end still draws the future.”

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Posted by: Ganzo.5079

Ganzo.5079

I have a question to the players that was in beta (i buyed the game at launchstart, the 28 august).

Was the classes (the guardian mostly) so unbalanced at that time, to require so heavy changes? i remember my friends that was playing on beta, they where all entusiast of the overall game balance.

We lacked too much stuff in the beta weekends (especially time) to find the proper meta but when you’re low-mid level you don’t have much of a problem with class imbalance. Now when you’re high level and all you have is time on your hands… That’s when you begin to notice things.

IM not talking about strictly pve feature. But mostly PvP.

Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL

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Posted by: Psychol.5783

Psychol.5783

I hope guy who is responsible for these nerfs get fired. What a genius he need to be to nerf something that is useless anyway? This is one of the reasons why private servers are popular, because no stupid changes are made.

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Posted by: Star Ace.5207

Star Ace.5207

On a separate subject, I don’t understand how people claim that there are only 2 or 3 viable builds. Play what you like rather than what everybody else does? You’ll be surprised that you can still win/do well with stuff other than the “tried and true.”

(True, GW1 had more variety, but it was limited by the fact that many players imposed “meta-builds” you HAD to follow to be in their parties and for certain content, thus negating any advantage from its great build diversity for many if not most players.)

The spirit weapons nerf was pretty much unnecessary, though-I only used them when I was really bored, and they were fun, but not what I wouold normally use for any extended period of time (had to sacrifice too much in other areas to be able to use them effectively.)

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Posted by: RAVVSlathotep.5463

RAVVSlathotep.5463

On a separate subject, I don’t understand how people claim that there are only 2 or 3 viable builds. Play what you like rather than what everybody else does? You’ll be surprised that you can still win/do well with stuff other than the “tried and true.”

(True, GW1 had more variety, but it was limited by the fact that many players imposed “meta-builds” you HAD to follow to be in their parties and for certain content, thus negating any advantage from its great build diversity for many if not most players.)

The spirit weapons nerf was pretty much unnecessary, though-I only used them when I was really bored, and they were fun, but not what I wouold normally use for any extended period of time (had to sacrifice too much in other areas to be able to use them effectively.)

This kind of reasoning gets us nowhere.

See it like this: why would you gimp your team and increase the risk of a total party wipe by rolling a mediocre build when you have builds that work better 100% of the times? Being special and unique doesn’t mean being good.

I got to lv80 untraited and managed to do it well, making a no trait build “viable” for open world and non fractal PvE but that doesn’t mean it’s the smart thing to do.

Another example: in sPvP I rolled a (prepare to laugh) burst DPS Guardian with Sword/Focus & Scepter/Shield, no AH, 20 Zeal and had great scores with it.
I managed to do it because I outskilled or outlucked my enemies but I was given a run for my money every time I fought a player with decent skills.
I’m 100% aware that if I had used a tried and true build I would have been able to carry some of those games, and it wouldn’t have led to a loss for my team.

What I mean is that what you do in open world PvE is your business but the moment it stops being a solo effort one’s sub-par build starts affecting the team effort negatively.

“Even though the beginning is followed by the end, the end still draws the future.”