Guild Wars 2

Seems really darned wierd to me that I can conjure up a healing bow… but can’t USE a goshdarned bow!

Agreed. We should be able to use Bows

Based on the dev views of a guardian:

“The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

I’d probably say maybe not anytime soon, since I’m under the impression that they wanted guardians to be a melee-based profession, especially since many of its abilities are best at melee.

I don’t think a guardian wielding a bow would make much sense unless they enchant it with “guardian energy” or something when using the skills (think mesmer w/ GS). The scepter makes sense, since, in this game, it’s an instrument for channeling magical energy.

I’m not entirely sure how I feel about the ranged damage “issue” that keeps being brought up from time to time. I’ll agree that the scepter auto-attack is pretty bad. I would probably take a ground target attack (similar to engi grenades) over scepter’s current auto attack if I could.

Lightrayne.7829:

Based on the dev views of a guardian:
… “but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

“but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

I hope you’re not implying I said that…. That’s a quote from the devs from December 14th when they gave their thoughts on each of the professions.

Would love a longbow.

But I’d settle for scepter being made viable and not a complete pile of kitten!

Lightrayne.7829:

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

“but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

I hope you’re not implying I said that…. That’s a quote from the devs from December 14th when they gave their thoughts on each of the professions.

Nope. I know it game from the developers. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply anything. It’s just funny because Warrior have plenty of ranged damage options.

I updated my post so not as to mislead others.

As much as I would love a bow, I think it is better to focus on the more realistic goal of scepter auto attack being fixed.

I don’t get why it can’t be given a better attack, it’s not like giving it a fast projectile or beam will turn guards to the best ranged class. We would still have worse range than every other profession but our only ranged option would be significantly better.

I would be happy, if it was just more astheticly pleaseing… i feel so lame useing a scepter. when i imagine a big plate warrior useing a magic scepter, i was hopeing for something a little more inspirational than little blue tenis balls and tiny magic fists

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

“but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

I hope you’re not implying I said that…. That’s a quote from the devs from December 14th when they gave their thoughts on each of the professions.

Nope. I know it game from the developers. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply anything. It’s just funny because Warrior have plenty of ranged damage options.

I updated my post so not as to mislead others.

It’s worth noting that warriors don’t have the same sustain as well played guardians in melee. I’ve logged a considerable amount of time on my warrior, and outside of the GS/Axe+x build which, in the past, was able to burst down bunkers, a dps warrior couldn’t stand toe to toe with any type of competent guardian, and a tanky warrior couldn’t do the damage to bring one down. If a fight can’t be ended quickly, the warrior typically has to separate or he dies. That’s why you see so many using the GS and why a fortress like the guardian can’t use the rifle or longbow.

Generally speaking, when I switch to ranged on my Guardian I tend to accept that I am not there for damage but rather for support. With that being said, Scepter needs to either be converted to a more support oriented weapon to fill this role better (Staff is just solid at this) or be at least at an acceptable level for a ranged offensive weapon (which is what I think they were aiming for). It doesn’t need to be on par with Guardian melee weapons, but most of the time when I think about going Scepter for a fight, I instead choose to just suck it up and melee with greatsword.

The major problem with it is that it offers only damage (#1 and #2) and a Immobilization/Invulnerability (#3). I could say this about Sword as well, but it’s lack of a symbol leaves a lot to be desired.

I’m not personally conflicted by the poor ranged options, nor am I setting any expectation that it will be ‘fixed’ either. I honestly hope that the coolness of Guardian concept isn’t downgraded through stand-off mechanics allowed by ranged combat.

Aven.7295:

I would be happy, if it was just more astheticly pleaseing… i feel so lame useing a scepter. when i imagine a big plate warrior useing a magic scepter, i was hopeing for something a little more inspirational than little blue tenis balls and tiny magic fists

Oh heck, that made me laugh

Reminds me of…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

But anyway, yeah the Sceptre pretty much sucks. My Guardian is only level 20 but all its kit is the same, and the damage doled out by the Sceptre falls WAY short of any other weapon I have.

I really don’t think having a shortbow to at least give us 900 range would do any harm.

GuzziHero.2467:

Aven.7295:

I would be happy, if it was just more astheticly pleaseing… i feel so lame useing a scepter. when i imagine a big plate warrior useing a magic scepter, i was hopeing for something a little more inspirational than little blue tenis balls and tiny magic fists

Oh heck, that made me laugh

Reminds me of…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

I don’t know why, but the single spectator giving an enthusiastic applaud at the end cracks me up every time.

Honestly, after hundreds of hours on my Guardian as my main, I think Guardians with a staff works pretty fine. Yes, I wish we could use a Bow. A long range damage weapon would be nice. Yet, I find that my Staff works just fine for medium range damage. I’m still mixed on ranged damage on a Guardian. In the right hands, they’re already pretty strong, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t been nerfed to oblivion because of all the whining I used to see. I say fix the Scepter so that autoattack is faster.

Instead of firing semi slow moving orbs, increase the speed to the speed of a shortbow autoattack, and increase the range of the orbs.

i liked necro scepter, its too fast to watch with naked eye…

Kaizz.7306:

Honestly, after hundreds of hours on my Guardian as my main, I think Guardians with a staff works pretty fine. Yes, I wish we could use a Bow. A long range damage weapon would be nice. Yet, I find that my Staff works just fine for medium range damage. I’m still mixed on ranged damage on a Guardian. In the right hands, they’re already pretty strong, I’m honestly surprised they haven’t been nerfed to oblivion because of all the whining I used to see. I say fix the Scepter so that autoattack is faster.

Instead of firing semi slow moving orbs, increase the speed to the speed of a shortbow autoattack, and increase the range of the orbs.

While im all for fixing scepter #1, homogenizing weapon attacks (your example of increasing orb speed) should not be the answer. Im leaning more towards making it homing, we would be unique in having slow attacks but still having the ability to hit players.

That said… im happy with any change right now… playing 7 months so far shooting blue tennisballs at players that dissapear into the ground or air.

Indeed, all we need is a simple Scepter buff and then we’d be fine.

Guardians don’t need ranged. If you want ranged, you can give up some of the ridiculous tankiness you have. If you get a bow, Warriors better kitten well at least get access to protection.

I use a scepter and the only issue with it is the #1 tennis-ball attack. Change it and the scepter is fine.

Sil.4560:

Guardians don’t need ranged. If you want ranged, you can give up some of the ridiculous tankiness you have. If you get a bow, Warriors better kitten well at least get access to protection.

we need ranged.

We dont need to be super great at ranged.

Just a viable way to act at range. or to hit runners.
We dont want ranged to be so good its the main playstyle, just buffed enough so that you can hit something other than a stationary target.

We are the ONLY profession which lacks a viable ranged option.

Only thing they need to do is make sceptor projectile homing or at the very least increase the projectile speed by 50%+.

DeathPanel.8362:

Only thing they need to do is make sceptor projectile homing or at the very least increase the projectile speed by 50%+.

Agreed. Scepters damage is actually insanely high. Have you actually checked how much smite hits if you have decent critical chance? Put 10 in zeal and 30 in radiance and you WILL kitten bricks. x)

NO, we won’t get a viable ranged attack as the only fix they have for Scepter #1 is to speed it up. The mechanics of how to fix it are too complex.

Irena.1062:

NO, we won’t get a viable ranged attack as the only fix they have for Scepter #1 is to speed it up. The mechanics of how to fix it are too complex.

I do not see how making it homing is such a problem. What can they possibly do in all those months between major content updates that cannot warrant 60-70 lines of code at most.

Cameirus.8407:

we need ranged.

We dont need to be super great at ranged.

Just a viable way to act at range. or to hit runners.
We dont want ranged to be so good its the main playstyle, just buffed enough so that you can hit something other than a stationary target.

We are the ONLY profession which lacks a viable ranged option.

I’m not really feeling sympathy. Give up some of the over-the-top survivability in melee first.

guardians even though we may not be able to use a bow at least give us a longer range attack on the sceptor or maybe give us more ways to cripple and slow our opponents ^^

No need for cripple and slow, make scepter #1 homing and i can rest in peace knowing i kittened up and not a weapon….

Human guardians have access to prayer to lyssa. More often then not it will give a cripple.

Lightrayne.7829:

Based on the dev views of a guardian:

“The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

No where in there does it say that guardian shouldn’t be able to deal hardly any damage at range… or that people should be able to outrun our ranged attack… just that guards shouldn’t be able to do MAX damage at range. I’m fine with not doing max damage… not ok with the rest.

Fix scepter or give guard a viable ranged weapon already -.-

Worthwhile weapon or not, the blue tennis balls just look and feel really lame.

Because we are so good in melee that we must be crappy at max range. Its balanced lol

No Jesus Beam ever. If ArenaNet would change the guardian’s Ray of Judgement so it’s actually a bloody beam, I’d use it more. They should just take the Howling King’s scream and shrink it down a little, I think.
As for our current ranged weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ0pqRwjuU
This makes me chuckle every single time.

I’m actually perfectly fine with the current ranged options for my guardian. The range is outstanding for 2 out of the 3 scepter skills. Both Orb of Wrath and Smite have a range of 1200. Only Chains of Light has a shorter range of 900. My only real issue is the slowness of Orb of Wrath. Other than that, I think the scepter does a decent amount of ranged damage. It certainly isn’t going to win any awards for having high, sustained DPS. However, I don’t use it because I want to do massive damage. I use it more for Smite and Chains of Light.

I get that people feel neglected because the guardian can’t do massive amounts of damage at a distance (Smite is crazy good if you have a high crit chance and can snare your target). But I think the limited ranged options says a lot about their design goals for the class.

The whole class is built around the concept of always being in the thick of battle, while buffing and supporting those around them. There are many ways to accomplish this task of course. I think giving the guardian a stronger ranged weapon would make the class way too powerful. It’s already extremely powerful.

Having said that, it would be nice if the scepter had a symbol skill associated with it. Maybe turn Smite into a symbol that has a chance to cripple your target(s) while also providing a boon for allies?

Zedd.8239:

I’m actually perfectly fine with the current ranged options for my guardian. The range is outstanding for 2 out of the 3 scepter skills. Both Orb of Wrath and Smite have a range of 1200. Only Chains of Light has a shorter range of 900. My only real issue is the slowness of Orb of Wrath. Other than that, I think the scepter does a decent amount of ranged damage. It certainly isn’t going to win any awards for having high, sustained DPS. However, I don’t use it because I want to do massive damage. I use it more for Smite and Chains of Light.

I get that people feel neglected because the guardian can’t do massive amounts of damage at a distance (Smite is crazy good if you have a high crit chance and can snare your target). But I think the limited ranged options says a lot about their design goals for the class.

The whole class is built around the concept of always being in the thick of battle, while buffing and supporting those around them. There are many ways to accomplish this task of course. I think giving the guardian a stronger ranged weapon would make the class way too powerful. It’s already extremely powerful.

Having said that, it would be nice if the scepter had a symbol skill associated with it. Maybe turn Smite into a symbol that has a chance to cripple your target(s) while also providing a boon for allies?

The bad thing about smite is that it’s short and, like most AoE skills, the enemy can just walk right out of it.

Erasmus:

The bad thing about smite is that it’s short and, like most AoE skills, the enemy can just walk right out of it.

Assuming that you don’t take any steps to ensure that the enemy stays in the radius for as long as possible, then yes it’s bad. But that isn’t exactly what I’d call a smart use of Smite. It works great with AoE chill skills (like the ones elementalists have) and there are other AoE snare skills that it works well with too. It doesn’t mean it isn’t viable or that it’s worthless. It just means you need to be smart about how and when you use it. At the very least you can use Chains of Light on your target first and immediately hit them with Smite. It isn’t perfect since it isn’t snaring more than one target. But it can still do massive damage if you use it right.

I would love to remix the scepter and staff : Give the the staff the first attack of the scepter, and swap Staff and Scepter symbol : thus you specialise more the staff on Distance and support, and the Scepter and medium range damage.

Maybe it is a problem of Learn2Play, but I never succeed to use both aspect of the Staff : I can run in medium range and spam #1 et #2, or stay with range attack group and go full support with some #2. But using #4 and #5 in melee is very very hard for me. I sometime succeed to use the #3, but mainly use it for speed and heal my comrades.
One the opposite, I am always in mid range with scepter, and would love to have an AOE option other than skill #2. Ans skill #2 is hard to pull in melee fights !

Sil.4560:

Guardians don’t need ranged. If you want ranged, you can give up some of the ridiculous tankiness you have. If you get a bow, Warriors better kitten well at least get access to protection.

Guardians do need range, though. It doesn’t have to be a bow, I’m 100% fine with only having the scepter and staff. The problem is the scepter doesn’t work. The 1st ability is either bugged or it is a horrible design flaw. The orb speed isn’t even the biggest issue, it’s that you can smash A and D and completely evade every scepter attack. The orbs just fly around, and it’s honestly sad that I can outrun my own freakin attack. A class not having range breaks them, and that’s across almost every game I’ve ever played. No range, get kited for days, unless everything you have is a gap closer, and even then, there’s usually 2-3 good ranged attacks.

I had accepted Scepter as a decent ranged weapon in PvE, until I finally realized that it’s pretty terrible. Running Dredge Fractal the other day and had the ice elemental boss. It was just taking forever to kill the thing and it finally dawned on me that 3/4 guys dpsing the thing were guardians with scepters. We couldn’t hit the boss because the adds were in front. Two of us switched into Staff and one stayed Scepter for chains, the thing dropped much faster. Scepter is no longer my ranged weapon of choice, I’ll have to make staff work.

Blood~

Zedd.8239:

Erasmus:

The bad thing about smite is that it’s short and, like most AoE skills, the enemy can just walk right out of it.

Assuming that you don’t take any steps to ensure that the enemy stays in the radius for as long as possible, then yes it’s bad. But that isn’t exactly what I’d call a smart use of Smite. It works great with AoE chill skills (like the ones elementalists have) and there are other AoE snare skills that it works well with too. It doesn’t mean it isn’t viable or that it’s worthless. It just means you need to be smart about how and when you use it. At the very least you can use Chains of Light on your target first and immediately hit them with Smite. It isn’t perfect since it isn’t snaring more than one target. But it can still do massive damage if you use it right.

Massive damage, for 3 seconds every 20 seconds. I cannot but stress this enough:

Oh and massive…? No. During those 3 seconds we have VIABLE dps.

edit: not sure whats with the giant tab space between the link and my last sentence…

Smite being a short duration is actually good i think. It’s harder to react to and avoid.

Heh, if smite actually had a duration of 3 seconds but its damage not altered it could Possibly compensate for lack of scepter #1 hits. But i’d prefer to just make it homing, you see if they changed smite to do its damage in 3 seconds it would probably to bursty.

Either give us a Longbow (which I prefer) or at least fix our Scepter 1 attack..

Longbow will cost to much resources, a simple scepter #1 homing fix will do the trick.

Unfortunately the guardian community seems to think discussing builds and questions about stats are more important then discussing lack of ranged viability. Which arguably is the most important thing because one does not go and melee into the other zerg or pve bosses that have instant melee kill spells. If you do anything in this game remotely competitive, you will see how absurd the lack of range is.

But np… go and make a thread about guardian paladin build 6.0 or if toughness is better then vita etc….

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

Based on the dev views of a guardian:
… “but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

That is pretty funny. My Warrior’s main way of dealing damage is with the RIFLE. It utterly wrecks face.

CrazyAce.3842:

TooBz.3065:

Lightrayne.7829:

Based on the dev views of a guardian:
… “but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.”

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

That is pretty funny. My Warrior’s main way of dealing damage is with the RIFLE. It utterly wrecks face.

This is exactly why it renders all arguments of “plate/heavy armor” useless. I still see ppl use it a lot..