WvW - Inc Retaliation Nerf-What Compensation?
If its is severe enough, I pose they change your class name to ‘freelootbag’. Could you guys be any worse in wvw 1v1? lol.
It’s already been nerfed. They just need to fix it in Borderlands so that the nerf actually works there. If they nerf it anymore it’ll be a pointless buff.
Grouch needs to stop crying about things he doesn’t like having to adjust to (like not spamming AoE on organized clusters of players immediately after they blast light fields?) and stick to sPvP. Guru really could have done a better job of finding a host for that show.
Chris “Dawnheart” Aerinoh — Revenant, Guardian — Blackgate
(edited by Christos de Soufre.3802)
Guru really could have done a better job of finding a host for that show.
I suppose it depends on how much choice they had. They’ve repeatedly put out calls for a PvE version for hosts, and haven’t got anyone qualified enough to do it.
I wonder how many people they had to pick from when they established the PvP State of the Game.
If anything needs to be nerfed it’s protection.
If its is severe enough, I pose they change your class name to ‘freelootbag’. Could you guys be any worse in wvw 1v1? lol.
retaliation already been nerfed in Borderlands?
lol,It’s ture?i will happy to see that,have patch Notes to see?
If the borderland bug is still around then yes, that should be fixed to address the overall change. However, adjusting it down further would be rather silly and make it useless.
Guardians sort of remind me of Thanes (DaOC) and Paladins (WoW) in that the class is borderline overpowered with the slightest change. Meaning we are one of the most balanced classes in the game yet a single change will either put us over the top or at the bottom being easy kills. When compared to other classes that is. Hybrids have this generally and while GW2 doesn’t do healing/dps type classes Guardians do have overall support in concept.
So this leads us down this merry road of free loot bag to God mode, et al. Rather silly if you want just one mans opinion.
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
Hm, I thought it was nerfed in borderland too. Seems to hit for less than 300, when it used to hit for 300. Unless I’m misremembering.
There’s plenty worse classes in 1v1 than guardian. Guardian players don’t have much to complain about.
Gate of Madness
We have lots of retaliation and lots of our traits involve Retaliation. What should we ask Arenanet for in compensation for this incoming nerf?
Considered that Mesmers got Confusion butchered w/o any compensative buffs (actually they added some traits nerfs on top of confusion one) and that it was the only source of dmg for a zerging Mesmer – while Guardian dmg on Retal is “collateral”, not the only one (GS/Hammer hits hard w/o any Retal involved) – i wouldn’t get high hopes.
Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.
For reasons known only to themselves, the sPvP playerbase is conspiring to have Retaliation nerfed in WvW. Video:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/c/2517953?t=13m54sWe have lots of retaliation and lots of our traits involve Retaliation. What should we ask Arenanet for in compensation for this incoming nerf?
I’ll add that sPvP balance changes don’t have anythin to do with WvW and askin for compensation for buffs/nerfs isn’t how balance works.
Gate of Madness
Oh for the love of Grenth…. Here we go again. My mesmer was a casualty of the godawful confusion nerf, and now retaliation? What’s with the hate on boons and conditions? It’s like players don’t ever want to think about anything other than direct damage. Direct damage is so boring! What’s brilliant about confusion and retaliation is it MAKES PLAYERS THINK before just spamming attacks. Conditions are the intelligent gamer’s choice. I really don’t think retal is overpowered in any way. And it’s super necessary for Guardians as we are supposed to be plunging head long into full target combat. We have no invisibility, this is crucial to our survivability.
Styx Hemlock – Sylvari Mesmer – TFG – NSP
(edited by Entropy.4732)
What’s interesting too about the video is how the dev describes Anet’s internal testing methods. He says that they’ll do tests with 7 players (sPVP), call up “high level players” to ask advice, and at most do a test with 30 developers. The interesting thing here is that they clearly can’t really test the true effects of these nerfs and balance patches in large scale WvW. Often full matches in EB will be hundreds of players, far more than 30. They should figure out a way to test these changes to WvW properly instead of just playing the guessing game.
Styx Hemlock – Sylvari Mesmer – TFG – NSP
What’s brilliant about confusion and retaliation is it MAKES PLAYERS THINK before just spamming attacks.
And that’s why ppl whine and Anet nerfs.
Why start using a brain when you can ask for them to be removed from game?
Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.
I’ve always said this. You can’t balance a PvE game with a PvP game. Never works. Never has, never will. Look back to any MMO or game like this that tried and they all fail. DaOC retail vs. Trials of Atlance is a prime example whereas a PvP game broke to hellnback because of PvE content. Then look at WoW and their mess surrounding arena’s. Season 1 through today constant changes to class mechanics because a talent designed for PvE gives a unfair advantage when used in PvP (bg or arena). Such as Hand of Protection to name just one season ending example…
Main – Laaz Rocket – Guardian (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
Johnny Johnny – Ranger (Ehmry Bay)
Hárvey Wallbanger – Alt Warrior (Ehmry Bay)
My hope is that if they do add an ICD to Retaliation, likely one proc per second, they’ll increase the base damage of each proc significantly. They stated that they don’t want Retaliation to be as punishing to multi-hit attacks, but akittens current level of damage per proc, any sort of ICD would make it worthless as a boon. Raising its damage would make Retaliation more desirable against larger, single hits, which could be a sort of “compensation” for nerfing its ability to punish fast hits with the ICD.
I’m still not completely sure how I feel about this change, mostly because counterplay against small, fast hits, especially ranged ones, is limited compared to counterplay against large single hits. Aegis, Blind, well-timed dodges, snares, hard CC, etc. all allow a player to mitigate single-hit spikes relatively easily. Against a class that can hit you with a steady stream of damage, like a Shortbow Ranger or Engineer, your main options are to use Retal, try to outpace their DPS, or interrupt their line of sight with terrain or skills. Hard CC and the like doesn’t always work as well when you use it to interrupt their attacks, because they aren’t invested in damage from any one particular skill that you can disrupt. Losing Retal as a counter could make dealing with these sort of classes much more difficult, and most Guardians struggle with them as it stands.
Go ahead, Nerf Retal.
But you better kittenING give us a god kitten on demand CHILL in our Weapon Chains, kitten .
We are the ~ONLY~ Class that does not have RELIABLE access to NEITHER Chill NOR Cripple.
Not this crap of a skill called “Glacial Heart”… what a WASTE of space….
(edited by Amins.3710)
Retaliation and the old confusion numbers are drastically out of balance in PvE (where mobs attack every 2-3 seconds) vs. PvP, where people tend to attack multiple times each second.
It clearly needs to be split between the two modes unless they drastically ramp up the attack rate of NPCs. I think fixing the bug to make sure it works the same in all 4 WvW zones will probably be sufficient, but even with the bug fixed, it’s still quite a bit more powerful in PvP than PvE.
Given that the slow attack rate of mobs makes it too easy to avoid damage with minimal investment in defenses thus causing " go ’zerker or go home" syndrome in PvE, they really should just up most of the mob attack speed (but lower the dmg per attack to keep the dps sane). more damage slipping thru makes defensive stats more important and solves the pvp/pve split issues with retaliation and confusion.
I totally agree with that as a solution, but you also double or triple the number of attacks going on which probably means a fairly significant increase in server loading.
You’d probably also need to add additional weaker attacks to the mobs as lower dps filler moves, because having “scary attack that needs to be dodged” is somewhat of a core combat mechanic.
lol idiocy. nerf nerf nerf without consideration for pve. Retal is already crap there. Hurry up and split skills A-Net… -_-
Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|
my main is a ranger, and have an alt guardian. if i use barrage with my ranger in wvw on a zerg, that nearly kill me because of the retaliation. i think thats one of the best buff in wvw and not bad in pve. u cant win a fight just with one buff.
WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+
Just the WvW
R3200+
Retaliation is not meants to be strong. It would be kittened if it was and it was for a very long time. Guardian is a very strong class in all aspects of the game the one idiot saying they are bad in WvWvW must have just had a lobotomy.
We’re strong because of boons, which everything else keeps getting counters for. If they keep nerfing boons, we keep getting weaker and weaker, even if it is indirectly.
Retal could use a [slight] duration nerf to make the game easier for PvE heroes who go into WvW and blindly spam AoEs on organized zergs, but its damage has been nerfed enough, especially if/when it’s finally fixed in Borderlands.
Chris “Dawnheart” Aerinoh — Revenant, Guardian — Blackgate
Sadly anet is involved, we would be better off with EA.
That being said the guardian feels as if it is in a really weak place right now. Our mitigation of damage (or lack of) and lousy healing and low health pool makes us a fairly weak class. Even with over 3k armor thief’s as an example are landing massive spike damage on us. Our healing and regen is quite poor and does not come close to being a counter to the said thief’s spike damage or the other class damage capability’s, meser, etc.
My ranger easily out heals my guardian, and so far any other guardian I have encountered. Was able to take out two guardians at once today multiple times with zero effort. They simply were not able to have enough dps, mitigation or ranged counters to stop me. And while I was watching a shoe my engineer buddy took out a group of 2 guardians and a warrior with out issue once the warrior was down.
What should be done with regards to retaliation is make it work as it reads. If it is going to have an internal cool down then make it so that it reflects %100 of the damage back to the target for that attack having the guardian take 0 damage from that attack. Grenade barrage is one attack so all the damage from that attack is reflected. How ever if they auto attack first then the auto attack would be reflected and 0 of the grenade barrage would be reflected. Make it so they cant just spam although will have to counter with a low damage attack first to clear the retal.
After that armor needs to be looked at and re adjusted, heavy armor and lots of toughness should actually make a huge difference so that the thief, or meser cant get multi k hits on you with out some serious debufs on us. Stacks of weakness etc.
Healing power needs to be increased, to be on par with spike damage as an effective counter. And the guardian should become better at healing allies and buffing allies. Our self buffs are meh, and don’t do much if anything to help with mass damage, or avoiding it. And can be used against us more effectively than as a benefit to us. Necros turning them against us, sword thief’s and warriors oh my, any ways love the guardian class just wish it was more effective and didn’t need team mates to carry the class.