Guild Wars 2

So how are we supposed to gain something in WvW?

Supporting is great but does not give anything.
The tomes are great aswell but to be usfull every 2min for 20 seks is a bit sub par. Secpter is nice but I am not sure about it.
So how do you play Guardian in WvW

They do need to do something to make support spells give you something not only in WvW but PvP as well. Me? I go hardcore tank mode. I help take points, take chunks of damage others couldn’t, help take down gates and other high risk things of that sort. It does seem like it maybe a bit more fun to be a ranged class in WvW though.

I’m working on a build for WvWvW

Hammer/Staff, Honor/Virtue/X

I haven’t decided to buff symbols(Zeal), get Searing Flames (Radiance, see other post) or take valor for more defense. I want to be versatile, but that’s really hard when you spend most time in WvWvW outside of melee. Our ranged damage is lacking (which is why I was looking at AoE boon removal).

Staff is useless compared to other professions.
I think greatsword is viable option for melee.
But WvW is all about range. And therefore you are forced to go Scepter. that is just the way it is. If you do not then forget about doing enough damage and stay support.
I am trying scepter/torch and mace/shield. But guardians are not too good for WvW period.
Also not enough Health now …

Werewood.9758:

Staff is useless compared to other professions.
I think greatsword is viable option for melee.
But WvW is all about range. And therefore you are forced to go Scepter. that is just the way it is. If you do not then forget about doing enough damage and stay support.
I am trying scepter/torch and mace/shield. But guardians are not too good for WvW period.
Also not enough Health now …

Greatsword is great for Melee Damage, but in WvWvW, hammer’s control outshines it. I think Greatsword works for the Retal builds though.

Staff is not useless. LoW is maybe the most underrated skill in the game. SoS, traited right, is decent damage, and EM is extremely useful for pushing or holding.

But yes, our damage is severely lacking, which is why Purging Flames (targettable)+ SoS would be the main source of ranged damage in my build if that goes through.

Scepter is blah really, I used to like it a lot, but it just stinks in all phases of the game now. Even as a WvWvW weapon, I think I would do more damage with the above Combo rather than Smite and the Occasional Hit from the tennis ball. Should probably test that.

Purging flames are with 40sec refresh or 32 if traited. That is no reasonable strategy for WvW …
Anyway I hear you. Guardian are great but not for WvW.

But traited SoS is up far more, it’s not high damage, but guardians cannot produce high ranged damage.

So how do we do that. Or what is the most creative way to do that. Smite+SoS+Purging Flames? Would be rough.

Wow I can’t believe what I’m reading. Guardian is flat out awesome for WvW. I just got my 3100th kill in WvW today. I have only lost once in 1v1 (since adjusted my skills) and I have won a number of 2v1 fights.

Wall of Reflection is amazing, so is the support tome. Nothing quite like healing to full when they’re already having a hard time killing you. Its going to be a very long time until I get bored enough to play another class in WvW.

Carsormyr.3950:

Wow I can’t believe what I’m reading. Guardian is flat out awesome for WvW. I just got my 3100th kill in WvW today. I have only lost once in 1v1 (since adjusted my skills) and I have won a number of 2v1 fights.

Wall of Reflection is amazing, so is the support tome. Nothing quite like healing to full when they’re already having a hard time killing you. Its going to be a very long time until I get bored enough to play another class in WvW.

Can you post your build, please? Just curious.

darcdante.2753:

Carsormyr.3950:

Wow I can’t believe what I’m reading. Guardian is flat out awesome for WvW. I just got my 3100th kill in WvW today. I have only lost once in 1v1 (since adjusted my skills) and I have won a number of 2v1 fights.

Wall of Reflection is amazing, so is the support tome. Nothing quite like healing to full when they’re already having a hard time killing you. Its going to be a very long time until I get bored enough to play another class in WvW.

Can you post your build, please? Just curious.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mmcz0mM0mRTbomRTboGx0G0MkzMqzs

LaronX.8079:

So how are we supposed to gain something in WvW?

Supporting is great but does not give anything.
The tomes are great aswell but to be usfull every 2min for 20 seks is a bit sub par. Secpter is nice but I am not sure about it.
So how do you play Guardian in WvW

Only way is to use a staff and buff the others dealing some random damage with #1 and tomes.

Can i please have at least a skill similar to necrotic grasp instead of scepter #1?
thanks.

Guardians are absolutely the weakest class in WvW – NO QUESTION.

Yeah, you can sit around and support your teammates…
Shouting, using staff Empower skill, throwing your ray of judgement from your scepter…

But guess what, you’re going to get a bronze contribution. Or even better, no contribution at all!!! The only way you can do ANY damage at range is going to be – you guessed it – with siege weapons. And not only do these cost precious GOLD, but half the time you won’t have enough supply to even set one up and use it properly.

I’ve played guardian pretty extensively in WvW, and although playing the support role can definitely help the team, the fact that you DONT GET REWARDED FOR SUPPORTING is absolutely terrible.

TLDR; Go DPS spec, and forget helping the team. Supporting doesn’t get YOU anything.

So I guess it wasn’t just me. It is just sad that we have the lowst base Hp pool , one of the worser Dmg specks and the worst ranged wapones.

Sigh I still don’t get why we have like kitteny ranged skills. It there any hiden idea behind it.

@LaronX: Our lowest HP pool is mitigated by our innate defenses. Our damage specs aren’t that bad, especially if you lose the idea that you need burst to do good damage.
We are a bit redacted on ranged. Most people seem to think the idea behind it is that we’re supposed to be melee-only or that our defensive abilities (especially Wall of Reflection) paired with a strong ranged weapon would be overpowered.
I personally believe that it’s an oversight by Arenanet that they didn’t have time to actually correct.

The mesmer has feedback and is ranged O.o
This is no real argument.
It is not like the guardian is the only class to have protection and Aegis. If that would be the case I would be fine.
But group prot can be done by pretty much any class (correct me if I am wrong), Aegis can be done with the Mesmer as well ( tried it in Spvp and it gives you at least 1 aegis every time you use Chaos Storm).
Yes we can keep it up quite a lot but it forces use to go away from dmg ( to keep prot up 100% of the time you need a 2h and the trait for longer boons) while the hammer has great utility and nice dmg is is far behind other classes dps.
Yes we can do decent dps with great sword and burn but again it is not near what other can do without giving up utility for the team ( utility as a term not the skills). The crit dmg of GS is nice but not great, burn ( like all con dmg ) is only working in 1v1 or if no one else does that condition.

Yes we are surly not in the worst spot and maybe I sound a bit to over dramatic, but we do lack real build options when it comes to dmg and our mitigation does nothing vs con dmg ( but at least a-net was smart enough to give us enough ways to cleans them so it is fine).
I am not saying that the guardian is broken or bad or anything it is just like you say things got rushed and feel odd atm ( I blame only Ncsoft for that they did it with there other games and I pretty sure they would do it again) and it makes me sad.
But again we are not the only class with problems.
Like 40% of the Necro and Mesmer traits don’t work and there Pets and Illusions are buggy as hell.
And they also lack building options.
Things are wrong atm and they need to change I only hope A-net takes there time before they bust out the next add-on or anything else big ( what would be the point with the game being so buggy).

Also ranged weapons T.T

I have a tough time in WvW figuring out what to do also. I do use my scepter from the walls of a keep and I will use shield and focus spells on the walls to protect myself and others. But, it doesn’t seem like I am doing anything real significant. Open field fighting or when the gates come down, on the other hand, seems to be just fine.

I figure it works out in the end. I have a high level ranger that can do great in WvW, but I get pwned hard in sPvP. My Guardian is exactly the opposite. My engineer does well in either, but also isn’t as strong as the ranger in WvW for skirmishes and isn’t as powerfully versatile as the guardian in sPvP.

As a guardian, first thing you need to do is trust your allies. If nothing spectacular happens in a minute, don’t think its because you’re not providing melee support amongst dozens of arrows.

Next, weapons. A staff or a scepter is necessary, much like how a warrior needs a rifle or a bow. Scepters may not be able to hit anything that moves faster than a snail, but last time I checked siege weapons don’t move. Except for the golem of course, but I think a snail could beat him.

Staff is greater than people think it to be. 12 stacks of might nearly doubles one’s attack power, not to mention the heal recovers about 20% of hp. Its autoattack noclips through walls, forcing all melee door attackers to back off.

Lastly, line of warding is HILARIOUS. If anyone falls prey to it, they’re done.

But of course, the best weapon in wubwub are seige weapons. a weapon deals the same damage no matter who wields it, but it seems that its best in the hands of a guardian. If you are attacked, chances are it will affect your armor, not your vitality (lower chance at condition damage). Shield of absorption, wall of reflection and sanctuary will all give your weapon more life.

There’s a bunch of ways to help. But yes, Anet needs to count “boons given” and “healing done” as part of rewards.

Both weapons have aoes that begin working upon activation and linger for a while.

i use staff most of the time. I use it to support when we push. I have the two handed skills reset 20% faster so that helps a lot. I swap to greatsword and bomb people if i get a chance, never if they are in the middle of a pack though. Wall of reflection is beautiful. I use the scepter to try to kill siege from the top of walls. If its like a ballista or something and it needs to go down asap, ill pop my might up with staff, swap to greatsword, pop save yourselves! and virtue of justice to get my might real high jump down judges intervention to the ballista and do as much damage as possible before i go down. staff 3 and retreat to get places quickly, especially when running supplies. i use the shield with the scepter so when i poke out on walls to do damage i take 33% less because of the protection buff i get from shields number 3.

Thats basically how I do it. I’m ttraited 20/10/10/20/10 with runes , II III[i swap III to VII if im going to use the GS soon] II,I,II IX, VI

If you do not know how to play a Guardian in WvW and cant see how… well just go play other profession.

Guardians are great in WvW you just need to find a build that works for your style.

Well last time I checked ppl didn’t let you hit siege weapons for 5 mins to kill it

But yeah counting support actions would help us a lot, but thena gain ppl would abuse the kitten out of it and no one would doing anything. People atm are still in this I need to farm everything to be the best and I need to do it fast mode from other MMO’s. The best example are the Dolyaks in WvW. They are crucial for the victoy of your side but to main people abused it as cheap exp/karma gain that A-net needed to take out the rewards punishing the people that wanted to play the game and help out there team ( guardians where great at this with 2 staff and gs/hammer you could speed it up all the time and even hold it 3v1 till some help came along).

Yeah but well we are not alone with bad in WvW I think the Necro has similar problems. I think A-net needs to over think there weapons. Having 1 pure support and another pure dmg can work theory but in reality ppl would rather go a bit of both which is more usfull in the short and action packed fights the game provides.

Awesome at defense and annoying the enemy. Horrible at getting kill points when compared to just about every other class. Still, when I’m not playing my Guardian I miss it.

“Well last time I checked ppl didn’t let you hit siege weapons for 5 mins to kill it”

Yeah, quote button isn’t working but anyways, to my response…

Jade Quarry does. Quite often.

I’m kidding. Well, only a little…

Ok, do you want to know what I see?

“guardian is weak in wvwvw”
“healing power build is the weakest stat in game”
“you cant go melee vs enemies because you die too quickly”
“staff has low range and weak damage”

Now…want to know what I think?

Crit damage is the most useless stat.

I use
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MmcV0cM0mbNGMmbNTM9MGxGmRcabos

I push for my team, and i cut people off (staff wall) and launch people around (#5 shield)

I heal a ton, cure conditions, and tank amazingly well. I hit almost everyone via spamming 1/2 on mace, and 1/2/3 on staff. I get TONS of xp (but admittedly, not much loot) every fight.

I always bring ballistas with me. And i utilize themfor sieges/locations. This helps mitigate the lack of RDPS we have.

I also love to run around in raiding parties taking out objectives, with 5 or 10 people. Its amazing.

VisceralMonkey.6128:

Awesome at defense and annoying the enemy. Horrible at getting kill points when compared to just about every other class. Still, when I’m not playing my Guardian I miss it.

Horrible at getting kill points? Not really, i go mostly 2vs me or 3 vs me and its really easy to take them down just critting around 8k to 10k dmg with the Whirling Wrath skill per enemy is quite enought to get them stunned for the first few second and than its just a matter of getting them while they run away ;P

@George oh and the point that you only get bronze status in WvW isnt quiet right, i always get gold status in WvW no matter what event im in :O

@George

The problems with not getting contribution for events doesn’t make us “weak”, it just makes us “unrewarded”. We are INCREDIBLY useful in WvW, it’s just that if you focus on a pure support build you get jipped in terms of xp/karma/badges…pretty much every single reward. You can be shielding/buffing your teammates up to wazoo and get NOTHING unless you spam your weak ranged attacks. You can team up with a ranger, he can get dozens of kills while you protect him and buff him (that empower buff is awesome when teamed with a high power AOE attacker). He gets a ton of rewards, a ton of badges. You get nothing.

That doesn’t make us weak…it just means the system is broken and the game/developers doesn’t encourage people to help their teammates.

Fryggs.6180:

VisceralMonkey.6128:

Awesome at defense and annoying the enemy. Horrible at getting kill points when compared to just about every other class. Still, when I’m not playing my Guardian I miss it.

Horrible at getting kill points? Not really, i go mostly 2vs me or 3 vs me and its really easy to take them down just critting around 8k to 10k dmg with the Whirling Wrath skill per enemy is quite enought to get them stunned for the first few second and than its just a matter of getting them while they run away ;P

@George oh and the point that you only get bronze status in WvW isnt quiet right, i always get gold status in WvW no matter what event im in :O

You likely have your guardian built differently. Not necessarily better, but differently.

There are guardian builds that are VERY useful in team-based WvW that focus almost ENTIRELY on support. If you run a staff plus mace/shield your damage output can be miniscule, but your assistance to your team can be incredible. In that situation you will often get low contribution, and VERY few kills.

Often times when I’m defending a tower I never get a single event completion for the defense. It tics down SEVERAL times while I get nothing. THat is because I’m focusing on shielding my teammates, and buffing them. With my reduced recharge on two-handed weapons my empower buff is up pretty quickly. I combine that with Stand your Ground so I get the full buff of 12 might. While it refreshing I have my shield skills to shield my teammates from damage, I’m dropping wall of reflection, as well as Sanctuary and my symbols (which help cure conditions using the combo fields). I’m constantly in motion, constantly using skills…but none of them really focus on kills. I get no rewards for that.

As usual I manage to pick and level the most kitteny mass PvP class in the game, seems to happen to me in every MMO I’ve ever played, starting with SW Galaxies where I picked a rifleman before they buffed it beyond belief about 4 months in.

Guardians in 1 v 1 situations are decent. They can survive burst damage and with enough condition burning can outlast a lot of people. But in WvW you have to be ranged in any fight that is more than 5 v 5. And.. in WvW that is most fights. Sure, you can sit around and heal til you are blue in the face. You will help the cause greatly but you won’t be rewarded for it.

So basically, while you are busy healing — and being the main target I might add — you die and damage your gear much faster than other classes… to add insult to injury you won’t be getting much reward cash to help offset it.

They could fix this really simply by giving the guardian some decent ranged skills. Scepter is what most people end up having to run with — but you know what? I didn’t roll Guardian to priss around like a little princess with my scepter. I hate the fact that I am stuck with this one until I can get my other classes built up. My level 40 theif is squishy but once you get the knack of evades, it’s all gravy compared to the guardian. My necro and my warrior at level 25 both seem to treat me better in WvW than my guardian does at 80.

I still die in a matter of seconds when using a melee weapon against more than 2-4 people. I still get one-shotted in dungeons. I wish I had rolled ranger, pluck away evade backward let some stupid Jenkins guardian go in and finish off the injuries I put on the group. He dies, I don’t. I get more cash than him. He is dropping cash on repairs.

That’s the bottom line.

Wanna know what’s really funny? I just took a few peeks at my other professions and their boards have posts like “Solo Supply Camp Build…video included.” None of them have the level of WvW complaints that Guardians do so far. Still have to peek at Warrior though.

“I still die in a matter of seconds when using a melee weapon against more than 2-4 people. "
No way. Wtf is your build and gear? You must be pure offense, or yuou suck, honestly.

1) Siege weapons = ranged option. GTFO.
2) While your busy healing? You heal passively with resolve, symbols, and when you PROC resolve again. All for yourself, not your team.
3) I tank 5-15 people without dying. L2properly use your invuln ult, Shouts, wall of reflection, #5 shield, #2 hammer, #2 staff…

This is a classic case of QQ from a noob, from what im seeing.
If youd like me to fraps, i will.

And im from stormbluff, im fghting henge. Its not hard to survive. You need to l2roll, l2use weapons that give u another roll on swap. Each roll HEALS you. Each aegis HEALS you. Each symbol HEALS you ontop of protection/swiftness/regen and othr buffs it gives you.

Guardian is fine. Youre not.

Remember. World vs World vs World is just that. Its not about personal prestige, or the gold you get (u can easily get 2g/hour running cursed — enough to cover…. what…. 100 hours of wvwvw in repairs?)

Its about whether YOU feel your presence made a difference, and if YOUR WORLD won the fight.

Carsormyr.3950:

darcdante.2753:

Carsormyr.3950:

Wow I can’t believe what I’m reading. Guardian is flat out awesome for WvW. I just got my 3100th kill in WvW today. I have only lost once in 1v1 (since adjusted my skills) and I have won a number of 2v1 fights.

Wall of Reflection is amazing, so is the support tome. Nothing quite like healing to full when they’re already having a hard time killing you. Its going to be a very long time until I get bored enough to play another class in WvW.

Can you post your build, please? Just curious.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mmcz0mM0mRTbomRTboGx0G0MkzMqzs

hi, What stats you use in armor whith this build?

SuperJL.1652:

hi, What stats you use in armor whith this build?

Power, Vitality, and Toughness while trying to keep my critical hit chance at at least 30%

I love guardian. I love the melee options, I run with GS/Hammer combo. But the lack of any worthwile ranged damaging skill is NOT understandable.
Why are we the only class that doesn’t have a ranged wide dmging AOE as part of their weapon skills?
Why are we the only class that ranged options sums up in tossing extra-slow balls of excrements that do wet noodle damage?
I love WvW but I dont have the funds nor the envy to spend all my time manning an arrowcart.
So now I’m forced to shelve the class I like for a stupid warrior just because they have worthy ranged option.

Malpractice.7850:

Remember. World vs World vs World is just that. Its not about personal prestige, or the gold you get (u can easily get 2g/hour running cursed — enough to cover…. what…. 100 hours of wvwvw in repairs?)

Its about whether YOU feel your presence made a difference, and if YOUR WORLD won the fight.

Wrong, the badges of honor are pretty useful to guardians to get exotic power vit toughness gear. Sadly it takes forever to get any noticeable amount as a guardian.

@Malpractice

Really there is no reason to act like a total **** (That’s a four letter word for a thing that is likely hanging between your legs). Most of the things you are describing are traits, and are therefore choices you have made in your build. Aegis doesn’t AUTOMATICALLY heal, nor does dodging, or symbols. So you don’t need to act like a bully and an ******* (seven letter word for a thing between the four letter word above). You shared your build, you can help give people advice, but please act like an adult.

I hate playing my guardian in wvw, even in 1v1 I die within 5 seconds to some classes although I am using a highly defensive build and a set of lvl 80 exotics (power vit tougness gear mostly). In those 5 seconds the opponent usually has more than half health left. Some classes are just super overpowered when it comes to damage output.

I place a ballista and get more than 10 badges.
you can buy exotics with karma btw.

and drwookie I’m sick of people qqing about guardian with blanket statements like he made. guardians CAN do all the things he said.

LaronX.8079:

So how do you play Guardian in WvW

By laughing maniacally at all those class cannon builds that decide to jump me before smashing their face in.

Seriously, the last time I was in WvW it was to get my Gifts of Exploration and there were times where I was just walking around, leaving people alone, and they pause and get this look. You can tell what they’re thinking “he’s not attacking me, must not be paying attention or something… Time to attack!” This is generally their first mistake as I’m walking around in Vigil armour, level 80 gear. They must spend all the time in WvW or something.

Then they come in launching all their snares and high damage abilities…and I just take it, losing, a third to half of my HP…but that means I’ve still got 8-12k left. Many classes are focused on unloading as much damage in as short amount of time as possible to overload the enemy and they have little clue what to do when they encounter something that can take what they dish out and still be ready for a fight.

Guardians have a lot of melee or close range damage & survivability. Anyone that says that the Guardian is crap in WvW are trying to make them the Irresitiable Force. The thing is, this isn’t the Guardian. The Guardian is the Unmoveable Object.

Also, for those that are talking Support being useless, well, sort of. You can’t just spec for Support you have to have damage to.

edit: Humm, that was a little longer than I intended. Took out boring stuff, spoiler is just build musing for WvW.

Malpractice.7850:

I place a ballista and get more than 10 badges.
you can buy exotics with karma btw.

and drwookie I’m sick of people qqing about guardian with blanket statements like he made. guardians CAN do all the things he said.

So then provide your build (like you did, and thank you for that) and offer advice. I just don’t like the bullying and the general disrespect.

Guardians can do a lot. I agree you can build one to be an absolute beast. You can also build them to be the best friend of your entire team (and deal essentially no damage in the process).

ShadowbaneX.6273:

Also, for those that are talking Support being useless, well, sort of. You can’t just spec for Support you have to have damage to.

It really shouldn’t be that way. You can spec into pure support and be VERY VERY useful. Your teammates will love you. You shouldn’t have to deal damage.

Just remember that if you do that you will be completely jipped for badges/defense contribution. However it can be done, and like I said you will be VERY useful and VERY appreciated…just not appreciated by the game.

Ok, fair enough.

My personal philosophy is that you can’t just do support, some times what you need to do is jump in there and cause a mess. You can just support from the back, but I can remember a hanful of situations where it was a stalemate. Several of them vs several of us and I was in the back with my staff. I was doing what I can, giving Might, Line of Warding, damage & swiftness, but no one could gain the upper hand. I swapped weapons to my greatsword and jumped into the middle of a fight and managed to turn the tide of that fight.

I was pretty surprised that I survived, I thought I was boned, but nothing was happening. Thing is, having a Guardian in the middle of your pack pulling with Binding Blade & throwing down Whirling Wrath caused them to have to turn & deal with me, which allowed my teammates to gain the initiative.

You can do great things from supporting, and res’ing teammates, but you can also turn the tide of a battle just leaping into the fray and making a mess. We’ve got heavy armour and great survivability. Being in the back isn’t taking full advantage of the tools we got.

I’ll agree though that it would be nice for Anet to change the way rewards are given in the fight as sometimes you can do nothing and get gold and other times you can be res’ing, healing, buffing, whatever, and get Bronze.

Ya I agree. That is one of the reasons I like the guardian. There are a number of VASTLY different builds/styles that are all pretty viable and really powerful.

I run WvW with a pretty focused group of people on a dedicated teamspeak server with a couple of really great commanders. In that situation I find the most useful I can be is pure support…because we have plenty of people who are very organized and focused on laying down the AOE damage. They are designed for it. I am designed to maximize their output while keeping them alive as long as possible. When we attack a tower/keep we make quick runs to take out wall siege…I run with them. They destroy it with their AOE while I bubble/stabilize them to keep them attacking (will also giving the Empower to boost their dmg). The system works great…it is just unfortunate that those killing runs net them xp/loot bags and I get nothing.

Much truth there, however, I was thinking more of the general, non-specialized ‘go into WvW solo and do as much good as I can’ sort of action.

In your case, with that level of teamwork & coordination, I can completely see going full support, and might actually be the closest to GW1 that we get in the game.

I guess in Anet’s case, it’s much easier to calculate amount of damage done vs health healed, damage negated, etc.

ShadowbaneX.6273:

I guess in Anet’s case, it’s much easier to calculate amount of damage done vs health healed, damage negated, etc.

Also noteworthy is that Arenanet wants offense to be better (or more rewarding) than defense, in the end.

Not what I said Ynna, I said it’s much easier to calculate damage done. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be as easy to calculate damage healed, or mitigated, especially in large fights. Battle Presence + Absolute Resoution means you’re healing 300 hp per second for everyone in the area. How long is one of those ‘defend the tower’ events? A couple of minutes? Assuming 10 people that means you’re healing 3000 hp per second for 120 seconds, that’s 360000 hp. How do you compare that to damage dealt? How do you scale it for smaller engagements? How about larger ones? With damage, you just keep track of the amount of damage dealt and compare it to the whole. With support how do you compare that to just damage dealt?

Not nearly as cut and dry as “anet wants offense to be better than defense.”

Ynna.8769:

ShadowbaneX.6273:

I guess in Anet’s case, it’s much easier to calculate amount of damage done vs health healed, damage negated, etc.

Also noteworthy is that Arenanet wants offense to be better (or more rewarding) than defense, in the end.

Ya which is kind of ironic in my opinion. They want to get away from the trinity, except that a Full 100% DPS build (which is, I’ll point out, one of the 3 in the trinity) is very very well compensated/rewarded in the game. A full support build, which IS NOT a healer but more of a crowd control/buff/heal type role (much more complex than a healer in the trinity), is completely unrewarded.

ShadowbaneX, (mind if I call you Shadowbane or Shadow in the future, the X sounds funny in my had?) I understood what you meant. What I said was in addition to that. Calculating “support done” or “control done” isn’t that easy, but it might also not be something Arenanet is very interested in doing. And it’s not just the healing done. How do you calculate the effectiveness of a well-placed Line of Warding or Shield of Absorption? The effectiveness of your combo-field placement? It’s a similar problem to how I see myself doing support. It’s not that I don’t enjoy it, it’s that I have trouble seeing how well I’m doing.

@drwookie: The idea is that everyone is responsible for him(her)self. In that philosophy, no-one is 100% pure DPS, because you have to (at least) heal yourself. And the weapons generally have some variation outside of pure damage on them.
Support and control (in what I understand about the Guild Wars 2 philosophy) are secondary to damage. Something you do together with hitting enemies.

If I wanted to I could change up my build are be a pretty focused dmg dealer with next to no support. Scepter basically has no support except for the snare, which I can use purely on my own targets. Torch is a burn-focused secondary. My three utilities I could easily pick 3 damaging ones (The sword spirit, the teleport to an enemy to burn them. I’m sure I could find one other).

That build would be maybe 95% damage. It would pretty much fit PERFECTLY into the “Trinity” as a damage dealer….and the game rewards it just fine. I try to do the same as a support person, I get a much more complex set of tools and the game completely jips me.

I understand what their philosophy is and what they are trying to do…I just think their philosophy is a little backwards and they take it a little too far. I think the ultimate goal should be that teams should never REQUIRE the trinity to be successful. That doesn’t mean people can’t have viable builds that focus on support. It’s funny in a game called “Guild” wars, that the entire focus is “Every man for himself”. I run my support build to SUPPORT MY GUILD, and they spit in my face? It’s honestly crazy to me. Completely backwards.

call me whatever, most people go by sbx…and yes, that’s exactly my point.

It’s extremely difficult all those things, to the point where it could well be considered a drain on otherwise needed resources, just to calculate rewards. “Not interested”? Hardly. Just not feasible to do with the time they had, or even impossible. If you have trouble telling how well you’re doing, how do you set up an algorithm to determine how to reward players? It’s much simpler to go by the current method, even if there are some gaps & holes in the system.