You actually managed to do it...
I guess hybrid builds don’t exist. Or builds that use a torch.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Your comment makes no sense.
Even if you had a build with a Torch and were applying Burning constantly, you will still only get a 54 DPS increase from a Grandmaster trait if you have 2200 Power…
That’s horrible.
I bet anet had no idea what to give us and just threw something in just so we won’t cry and be like, “how come all these classes got new traits but us”
Its the game design.
Condition damage is similar to healing power no matter how many points you invest to them the result will be pathetic
On the other hand +1 power = +0.5dps
that 220 condition damage is alot actually especially when your geared for condi damage and that traits gives you 1900, your burns start to tick for 850 every second, most times hitting 5+ times befores its removed
so if we do the math right thats 4275 burning damage thats pure damage not affected by toughness, this trait changes is a god send for damage type guardians
if your ticking for only 380 then your clearly not seeing its full potential
The new GM trait isn’t useless if you actually MAKE a burning build with it. It’s no more useless than any other GM trait that doesn’t fit a build you are making.
Zeal increases condition duration as well, so going 10 more points will increase fire duration by about 10% as well. If you use the 10% increased damage trait, the 30 in power isn’t completely useless.
However, I find more use just going 20 into zeal and the rest in Radiance. It is the most effective way to do dps, without hurting your team.
The reason why is, you can go 10 into Honor and get the Shield of Absorption on res, which can make you take a focus instead of a shield. (You can also chain it with Leap OR teleport then res on an ally)
You could use the rest of the 10 points for more toughness and critical damage, while supplying 150 toughness to allies. OR, you can use the precision bonus from toughness, and use RUNES OF MELANDRU which will reduce the fear by about 60% and provide you more critical chance.
I agree, but not because the damage increase on burning is so miniscule. Its because burning is the only damaging condition guardians have natural access to. That and its one of if not the worst condition to rely on damage for in parties due to it stacking duration.
that 220 condition damage is alot actually especially when your geared for condi damage and that traits gives you 1900, your burns start to tick for 850 every second, most times hitting 5+ times befores its removed
so if we do the math right thats 4275 burning damage thats pure damage not affected by toughness, this trait changes is a god send for damage type guardians
if your ticking for only 380 then your clearly not seeing its full potential
How would you build your guardian to take advantage of this? (Being serious rather new to the class so I haven’t a clue). Would be interested in trying something new out.
Focused mainly on WvW solo roaming or with an engineer flipping camps.
I think the minimum gear/traits for getting the highest condition damage possible is obvious … full carrion, Chryscola trinkets, 30/30/x/x/x, corruption sigil, Cdamage runes (take your flavour). Your defense would be really compromised and you don’t have many variables left to tweek after this.
Yep, its pretty bad. Definitely not a grand-master level trait. It would be ok as an adept or master. There’s still no real reason to go beyond 10 points in zeal unless maybe you are going for some sort of scepter build because the symbol-related traits are terrible and the grandmaster traits are still quite poor.
Maid Of The Coast
I bet anet had no idea what to give us and just threw something in just so we won’t cry and be like, “how come all these classes got new traits but us”
^that was what tough when readed the updates.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Anet has no idea what they’re doing when it comes to traits.. there’s absolutely no synergy with anything.
that 220 condition damage is alot actually especially when your geared for condi damage and that traits gives you 1900, your burns start to tick for 850 every second, most times hitting 5+ times befores its removed
so if we do the math right thats 4275 burning damage thats pure damage not affected by toughness, this trait changes is a god send for damage type guardians
if your ticking for only 380 then your clearly not seeing its full potential
How would you build your guardian to take advantage of this? (Being serious rather new to the class so I haven’t a clue). Would be interested in trying something new out.
Focused mainly on WvW solo roaming or with an engineer flipping camps.
First: I’m not sure if this would apply particularly well to WvW. I’m not very good at WvW, and I know that the build I’m outlining wouldn’t have many defenses.
Power-focused with solid burn uptime. Greatsword & <Mainhand>/Torch. Gearwise you’ll be berserker trinkets and probably weapons, but rampager armor for a bit of condition damage without sacrificing too much power, and a lot of precision.
30/20/0/20/0. Important traits are – Fiery Wrath, Zealous Blade, Kindled Zeal, Radiant Fire, Empowering Might.
Empowering might is important because you’re hybrid: might stacks are your best friend in the whole world, and with your high crit rate (Remember that splash of rampager armor?) you should be getting 3 or 4 stacks of might constantly from it. (Level 80 that’s 105-140 power and condition damage.) This also lets you get the most out of vigorous precision (you basically have guaranteed vigor uptime now) which is important since this build has no real defenses.
So far, heal / utilities / elite would be of your choice, but you’d probably want some of the more defensive ones. Consider Purging Flames maybe, for another AoE burn to resist getting cleansed and a condition clear. Shouts and the reduction trait in Honor could give some defensive power to you and those around you.
Again, I don’t know how this would work, (wrote it just now in about an hour) but it could be something to start with.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Even if you were for some reason specced to keep burning up 100% of the time, you’ll still be adding a tiny fraction of your original damage.
With full exotic soldier gear and ascended soldier trinkets (pretty much the best possible light to showcase the effects of the trait) you’ll have about 2800 power with food and a sharpening stone.
At that level, you’ll add an additional 70 damage to each burning tick.
Just plain auto attacking with the Greatsword will net you about 1700 DPS. If you add 70 additional damage to that, it would net you a phenomenal 4% damage increase. This is assuming that you are getting 100% burning uptime and that nobody else is overwriting your burning.
In any possible build that does more damage than full soldiers, the improvement due to the trait would be even less.
With that said, would anyone be really excited about a trait that said “May possibly increase damage by up to 4%, but probably less than that in most situations”?
edit: I’m not saying that condition damage is bad. It is just bad for guardians. For reference, that same 280 condition damage would add 350 DPS to a full stack of bleeding, which is still not great, but beats 70 by a long shot.
(edited by Knox.8962)
Even if you were for some reason specced to keep burning up 100% of the time, you’ll still be adding a tiny fraction of your original damage.
Tiny fraction? Let me challenge this …
If someone decided to have a 100% uptime on burning, they would probably be focused on using condition damage gear wouldn’t you think? I doubt someone will spec 100% condition duration and NOT use Carrion, Cdamage runes, etc…
I can tell you that if you build a spec that fully exploits a 100% burn uptime with the appropriate gear, you burning damage is in the range of 700 DPS and possibly higher, not 350. More than ‘a tiny fraction’. That’s equivalent to a regular hit for some weapons.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
The INCREASE is a tiny fraction. If you specced into full carrion gear, you would start with even more damage than the 1700 listed. The additional burning scales linearly with condition damage, so you’ll still only gain 70 DPS, which would make it even less than a 4% increase in your damage output.
For reference, with maxed condition damage through runes, gear, food, might, sigil stacks etc. You can get up to approximately 1100 burning DPS. At that same level of condition damage, a bleeding stack does About 5000 damage per second. Condition damage can be useful, but you need access to bleeding (and now torment) to have it be effective.
(edited by Knox.8962)
It’s not a bad trait, but it’s in a bad location. The builds that want condition damage are going to be using fast-hitting weapons like sword. And if that’s the case, they’re going to spec into radiance. If you’re deep into that tree, then you have a choice of no room for any support traits and get Kindled Zeal or not take it and get the support traits. Most would choose the latter.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
Still kind of bothering me that people think that Guardian burning is single-target when you actually invest in burning, but I was wrong: the damage boost is minor.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
All of the above numbers apply for 1 target or many. The damage increase is minimal. The stat increase is not all that terrible, but burning as a guardian’s only damage condition simply cannot put that to good use.
It would be a decent trait for a necromancer or an engineer (probably Master level worthy), but for guardians it is laughably bad.
@Knox bleeding have this dmg You pointed only when properly stacked – one stack of bleeding have much less (practically only once i get hit nearly for 5k from bleeding and had 25 stacks of them)
and condition removal removes all 25 stacks of bleeding – so You need to start stacking it over and over.
the burning have one advantage in this situation – burning deals more damage than one stack of bleeding. more than up to five stacks of bleeding as for my current experience.
and the metod we are applying it is giving us a possibility to have very good uptime of our full dmg burning – that is much easier than keep good numbers of stacks of bleeding in same uptime.
but unfortunately some ppl get pigeonholed into thinking path that don’t even allow to burning be stronger than bleeding, and thats sad, because they miss great potential in guardian.
maybe that trait isn’t perfect.
but still may be viable when stats and rest of traits are properly taken.
“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles
There is no magical build or gear set that will make this a good trait for guardians. You’re basically apply a reasonable amount of force (200+ condition damage) with a tiny lever (burning).
To put it another way. Top end damage in groups with might capped and fury etc. is around 7k dps. Even with all of the extra power from the might stacks, you’ll gain less than 100 dps from this trait. That’s less than a 1.5% damage increase. Warriors just got some revamped traits for 15% additional damage. That would be literally 10 times as effective as this trait.
For reference, with maxed condition damage through runes, gear, food, might, sigil stacks etc. You can get up to approximately 1100 burning DPS.
That’s a scenario doesn’t make a very realistic comparison. I can’t think of one good application for a burning build where someone will get all the might needed for that output and if they do, it’s certainly not sustainable.
A more realistic value for sustainable max burning damage is about 750 DPS.
At that same level of condition damage, a bleeding stack does About 5000 damage per second.
Sure, but how does that comparison impact a guardian? They don’t get bleed … If you understand what burning is on a Guardian, you would realize why these are misleading comparisons. Condition Damage on Guardian is not implemented in a way that would allow a reasonable increase in condition access. Adding even one more reliable condition damage to a build like mine would make it ridiculous.
Condition damage can be useful, but you need access to bleeding (and now torment) to have it be effective.
I hate to see this misinformation. The proper burning build on Guardian can output burning damage that is actually on par to regular hits for some of the more average weapons we have. It’s effective from the sense that it does what it’s supposed to and it does it well based on how it’s implemented.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
We clearly have very different views of what “effective” means.
Perhaps. I can see that your view of effective is related to ranking with competitive builds or the tools of other professions.
I don’t believe that’s a very realistic way to think of effectiveness. As guardian, your capability is not dependent on what other classes get, nor do I think that impacts how the devs decide on stuff we get.
I also believe that a build can be effective even if it doesn’t rank as the top 1 or 2 builds for a certain application. I don’t think anyone would mind if you want to elaborate on what you think qualifies as effective, just so that your points have context.
For instance, for WvW, I would NEVER suggest a burning build. For PVE, I wouldn’t have a problem recommending it, even for more experienced players in instanced content.
The take away here is that the new traits are a big boost in damage and flexibility for burning builds. saying you only get 70 DPS more CDamage from the GM zeal trait isn’t considering you just got another couple hundred power and depending on weapon, 5-10% more damage in addition to that. I mean, honestly, do you think someone going 30 in zeal ISN’T going to trait scepter or GS damage increase? People should go back and have a sober look at how to actually MAKE a zeal 30 build before they come to complain about it.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
that 220 condition damage is alot actually especially when your geared for condi damage and that traits gives you 1900, your burns start to tick for 850 every second, most times hitting 5+ times befores its removed
so if we do the math right thats 4275 burning damage thats pure damage not affected by toughness, this trait changes is a god send for damage type guardians
if your ticking for only 380 then your clearly not seeing its full potential
How would you build your guardian to take advantage of this? (Being serious rather new to the class so I haven’t a clue). Would be interested in trying something new out.
Focused mainly on WvW solo roaming or with an engineer flipping camps.
First: I’m not sure if this would apply particularly well to WvW. I’m not very good at WvW, and I know that the build I’m outlining wouldn’t have many defenses.
Power-focused with solid burn uptime. Greatsword & <Mainhand>/Torch. Gearwise you’ll be berserker trinkets and probably weapons, but rampager armor for a bit of condition damage without sacrificing too much power, and a lot of precision.
30/20/0/20/0. Important traits are – Fiery Wrath, Zealous Blade, Kindled Zeal, Radiant Fire, Empowering Might.Empowering might is important because you’re hybrid: might stacks are your best friend in the whole world, and with your high crit rate (Remember that splash of rampager armor?) you should be getting 3 or 4 stacks of might constantly from it. (Level 80 that’s 105-140 power and condition damage.) This also lets you get the most out of vigorous precision (you basically have guaranteed vigor uptime now) which is important since this build has no real defenses.
So far, heal / utilities / elite would be of your choice, but you’d probably want some of the more defensive ones. Consider Purging Flames maybe, for another AoE burn to resist getting cleansed and a condition clear. Shouts and the reduction trait in Honor could give some defensive power to you and those around you.
Again, I don’t know how this would work, (wrote it just now in about an hour) but it could be something to start with.
Thank you for the reply!
Using something like this uber tanky AH build as a starting point.
This will put out about 1965 DPS with just a plain GS rotation using no utilities or other skills. This will also provide about 47% burning uptime (which is factored into the DPS number already).
if you were to instead go with something like Burn Farming Build keeping all of the Knight’s Gear from the previous example, you’ll be sitting at 2517 DPS. That would net you a 76% burning uptime (not counting VoJ activations, which would increase the uptime).
If you swapped in the burning runes and carrion gear you’ll end up at 2569 DPS with a 91% burning uptime before the rune procs and VoJ. I rounded up to 100% uptime on burning for the DPS calculation.
If you added in the 10% of power as condition damage trait, you’d add another 235 condition damage, or 59 DPS, which is a total of a 2.29% increase in damage from the grand master trait.
If you went with the full knight’s setup again and specced 30/0/0/30/10, you’ll be putting out 2625 DPS while still being quite a bit tankier than the Carrion gear and also providing might stacks to the people around you. Additionally, you’d be much more effective when running around other people who provide burning since almost all of your damage comes from your weapon skills.
In short: even in a build completely designed to keep up burning 100% of the time, the GM trait is an incredibly small damage increase.