Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

MastaNeenja.1537:

My only problem with this is that someone will take it seriously and throw away a lot of gold.

Why do people like to MAKE things their problem? This is not your problem. If someone looks at that video and thinks “OMG, best Guard build EVAR!”, then they deserve to lose their gold for not doing more research, asking, etc …

Just like people who click the links in your signature and think the same.

Obtena.7952:

they deserve to lose their gold for not doing more research, asking, etc …

Problem is – research too commonly leads to popular ‘guides’ like this one and other poor pve ones. You’ll notice often a lot of bad builds have more youtube views than what better players know to be optimal.

The average player is bad, this causes them to gravitate towards selfish, tanky builds so that people have a harder time realising that they’re bad (since dps meters don’t exist). This in turn causes bad tanky builds to appear more popular and ‘meta’ than they should be.

Popular guides aren’t the problem; even if they are, it’s not a problem anyone can fix. This thread is just a bit of jovial. It’s certainly going to have no impact on directing people in a good direction. People that have potential to be good will figure it out pretty quickly what is effective and learn that the best approach isn’t someone telling them what is good. It’s learning for themselves what works.

IMO, if someone is looking at Youtube for advice, that’s already a bad start. There is nothing like practical application to give a player feedback.

Obtena.7952:

MastaNeenja.1537:

My only problem with this is that someone will take it seriously and throw away a lot of gold.

Why do people like to MAKE things their problem? This is not your problem. If someone looks at that video and thinks “OMG, best Guard build EVAR!”, then they deserve to lose their gold for not doing more research, asking, etc …

Seems to be that you’re trying to make this your problem, which is ironic. But hey I made a mistake I should have said “The only problem” instead of “My only problem”. Simply put I don’t like misinformation. I may for example wind up pugging someone who thought this guide was actually good and threw all their gold at it. Now I have to carry them, unless they are a jerk then I punt.

Not everyone hits these forums or other ones like it, maybe someone just got to level 80 on his first or second toon, and is still new to the game and Guardians. Research is important but all the research in the world won’t mean crap if you have yet to grasp the fundamentals of the game. We were all new at some point and what we don’t need is the wrong kind of information from the start that wastes everyone’s time and gold.

If your PUGing and you get someone with a build like this, that’s not the fault of the guy who makes a video on YouTube about it. I agree misinformation is bad but this is the internet. That’s why playing and testing gear ingame is the most valuable way to learn how to play.

You could compare what your doing to defending drug dealers. And its up to other people to know better. The drug dealer is not in the wrong to sell such things.

Obtena.7952:

Popular guides aren’t the problem; even if they are, it’s not a problem anyone can fix. This thread is just a bit of jovial. It’s certainly going to have no impact on directing people in a good direction. People that have potential to be good will figure it out pretty quickly what is effective and learn that the best approach isn’t someone telling them what is good. It’s learning for themselves what works.

IMO, if someone is looking at Youtube for advice, that’s already a bad start. There is nothing like practical application to give a player feedback.

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months. Here I was thinking yeah tanking hits and soaking up damage is good, when little did I know, I was a detriment to every pug I entered. I figured this popular guide must know what’s going on. So I spent a bunch of gold and tanked hits like a ‘pro’, barely getting better.

Had it not been for some crap guide, I would have been richer and better at the game much earlier. I wouldn’t wish the same fate on any new player that doesn’t know better. They may end up like most of the people around here, permanently deluded into thinking simply staying alive is good.

Same. I spent months following popular guides and figuring out the most efficient split of Dps to survivability (which I think is soldier gear, zerker trinkets) until I realised if I simply got better at the game I could go all out Dps and avoid most damage anyway.

laharl.8435:

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months. Here I was thinking yeah tanking hits and soaking up damage is good, when little did I know, I was a detriment to every pug I entered. I figured this popular guide must know what’s going on. So I spent a bunch of gold and tanked hits like a ‘pro’, barely getting better.

Same thing happened to me when I started out on Guard, I was looking into builds and gear that would give me 3k attack / def and 16+HP. It’s great that we now have a DPS Guardian guide stickied.

I guess how this ‘BEST Guardian Build’ guide appeals to newer players is that it proposes a single all rounded build using a single set of celestial armor and trinkets so they would not have to switch between builds and get additional gear for Zerging/Roaming/PVE/Achievements(lol), even more so with the addition of Ascended armor and the time/gold required to craft full sets. Plus that defensive stats makes them so tanky (dead dps = no dps) so it must be good.

laharl.8435:

Obtena.7952:

Popular guides aren’t the problem; even if they are, it’s not a problem anyone can fix. This thread is just a bit of jovial. It’s certainly going to have no impact on directing people in a good direction. People that have potential to be good will figure it out pretty quickly what is effective and learn that the best approach isn’t someone telling them what is good. It’s learning for themselves what works.

IMO, if someone is looking at Youtube for advice, that’s already a bad start. There is nothing like practical application to give a player feedback.

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months. Here I was thinking yeah tanking hits and soaking up damage is good, when little did I know, I was a detriment to every pug I entered. I figured this popular guide must know what’s going on. So I spent a bunch of gold and tanked hits like a ‘pro’, barely getting better.

Had it not been for some crap guide, I would have been richer and better at the game much earlier. I wouldn’t wish the same fate on any new player that doesn’t know better. They may end up like most of the people around here, permanently deluded into thinking simply staying alive is good.

I’m sorry but blaming a guide for you never once questioning your build in SIX MONTHS is a little bit of a joke. No guide held you back. Your own lack of creativity and exploration did.

foofad.5162:

laharl.8435:

Obtena.7952:

Popular guides aren’t the problem; even if they are, it’s not a problem anyone can fix. This thread is just a bit of jovial. It’s certainly going to have no impact on directing people in a good direction. People that have potential to be good will figure it out pretty quickly what is effective and learn that the best approach isn’t someone telling them what is good. It’s learning for themselves what works.

IMO, if someone is looking at Youtube for advice, that’s already a bad start. There is nothing like practical application to give a player feedback.

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months. Here I was thinking yeah tanking hits and soaking up damage is good, when little did I know, I was a detriment to every pug I entered. I figured this popular guide must know what’s going on. So I spent a bunch of gold and tanked hits like a ‘pro’, barely getting better.

Had it not been for some crap guide, I would have been richer and better at the game much earlier. I wouldn’t wish the same fate on any new player that doesn’t know better. They may end up like most of the people around here, permanently deluded into thinking simply staying alive is good.

I’m sorry but blaming a guide for you never once questioning your build in SIX MONTHS is a little bit of a joke. No guide held you back. Your own lack of creativity and exploration did.

I did try new things. Between the guides, this subforum and my own guild at the time, I was consistently informed that being able to take damage is superior “dead dps is no dps”. I was a poor player, I didn’t have the gold to constantly try new stats, and the mists give no real inclination to how a build will perform in dungeons. So I went with what the ’pro’s’ encouraged. No one else in my pugs ever complained about the slow pace with which we always seems to move, I thought it was normal.

It wasn’t until I started frequenting the dungeon forum that I started watching real dungeon videos and started to hear from people that actually know about dungeons that I heard dps is far superior in pve, and they had the proof to back it up. If I’d have gone there first, at least I’d have been set on the right path from the start.

Some people will figure it out faster than me, some people won’t. Tons of people will never learn how fast and easy dungeons can be because of all the crap guides and people deluded by them.

Even a year ago rares were comparatively cheap. You had every opportunity to try out other builds. You instead went with what you thought was the most acceptable build according to other people instead of trying something new yourself. Guides, and even bad advice, aren’t to blame for that.

People post a lot of stuff. The vast majority of it is speculation or personal opinions. It’s up to the reader to determine for themselves what’s worth considering and what isn’t. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to run a build that wasn’t time efficient. It’s not the guide’s fault you weren’t critical.

foofad.5162:

Even a year ago rares were comparatively cheap. You had every opportunity to try out other builds. You instead went with what you thought was the most acceptable build according to other people instead of trying something new yourself. Guides, and even bad advice, aren’t to blame for that.

People post a lot of stuff. The vast majority of it is speculation or personal opinions. It’s up to the reader to determine for themselves what’s worth considering and what isn’t. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to run a build that wasn’t time efficient. It’s not the guide’s fault you weren’t critical.

It’s not like my dungeons were failing, but I had nothing to judge by. I didn’t realize how fast and easy dungeons could be, but apparently neither did the people making build guides. Everyone in this forum and in my guild scoffed at the idea of a dps guardian. They’d all been playing longer than I, so who was I to tell them they’re wrong. Yes I wish I’d have thought of it myself earlier, but I didn’t. Either way, I was still faster to figure out pve in this game than many. Heck, you’re still stuck on condition guardian.

Why are you defending bad advice? There is no justification for that. Players will always look towards more experienced players for advice. Im a very critical player so i never followed anyone when creating a necro build but for guardian i followed the strife AH craze because I didnt know any better and I thought it was effective. I was less experienced and deluded by what everyone else was saying around me.

This is the same issue. Its bad advice and some people will follow it blindly. Its not their fault they are not critical enough (not everyone is like that or is confident enough in their own understanding). The best way to help the community as a whole is to try and filter guides based on whether they are actually good or not. You cant blame inexperienced players for following a bad guide which seems good because of all the other poor deluded souls that support it.

Yeah that goes back to what I said, if you’re inexperienced or new you’re not going to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals to know a bad guide when you see one. The least we (the ones that know better) can do is give a stamp of disapproval when we see something that isn’t right. That causes other players, new ones included to question the build.

Fortunately one commenter on youtube likened this build to Bearbow Rangers, unfortunately there are some players that don’t know what a Bearbow is and why it’s considered not helpful.

laharl.8435:

foofad.5162:

Even a year ago rares were comparatively cheap. You had every opportunity to try out other builds. You instead went with what you thought was the most acceptable build according to other people instead of trying something new yourself. Guides, and even bad advice, aren’t to blame for that.

People post a lot of stuff. The vast majority of it is speculation or personal opinions. It’s up to the reader to determine for themselves what’s worth considering and what isn’t. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to run a build that wasn’t time efficient. It’s not the guide’s fault you weren’t critical.

It’s not like my dungeons were failing, but I had nothing to judge by. I didn’t realize how fast and easy dungeons could be, but apparently neither did the people making build guides. Everyone in this forum and in my guild scoffed at the idea of a dps guardian. They’d all been playing longer than I, so who was I to tell them they’re wrong. Yes I wish I’d have thought of it myself earlier, but I didn’t. Either way, I was still faster to figure out pve in this game than many. Heck, you’re still stuck on condition guardian.

Your opinion is no less valid than theirs is. Just because you haven’t been playing long doesn’t mean you’re any less prone to coming up with good ideas. If anything, new players are the best source of innovation because they don’t have any preconception of what’s good or bad and they’re willing to experiment.

To be clear, I’m not blaming you and I apologize if it sounds like I am. I just think that using bad guides as an excuse is missing half of the equation – that half being that you, as an individual, are capable of making your own decisions.

Calling me stuck on condition guardians isn’t exactly fair. My position on that has always been that speccing into condition damage as a guardian is terrible. That’s a pretty universally recognized fact. The only thing that I 100% actively endorse is Permeating Wrath because it’s a pretty amazing PBAOE that circumvents the cleave limit when used with the right weapons. But PW doesn’t fit into every build, and that’s fine. If someone wants to argue with me about how that’s bad advice I’d be willing to take them on, but ultimately for purposes of this discussion it’s pretty immaterial – because I’m not forcing anyone to do anything, just illuminating a possibility.

spoj.9672:

Why are you defending bad advice? There is no justification for that. Players will always look towards more experienced players for advice. Im a very critical player so i never followed anyone when creating a necro build but for guardian i followed the strife AH craze because I didnt know any better and I thought it was effective. I was less experienced and deluded by what everyone else was saying around me.

This is the same issue. Its bad advice and some people will follow it blindly. Its not their fault they are not critical enough (not everyone is like that or is confident enough in their own understanding). The best way to help the community as a whole is to try and filter guides based on whether they are actually good or not. You cant blame inexperienced players for following a bad guide which seems good because of all the other poor deluded souls that support it.

Why are you being a lemming apologist? It is literally the definition of “their fault” that they aren’t critical enough. If the whole point of speccing full DPS is not only to create more efficient dungeon runs but to also educate people on how to be better players, why would you then turn around and forgive them for not being critical and taking everything they are told at face value, with no room for improvement, end of discussion? That’s silly.

If no one were ever critical, how would you ever identify errors? The fact that someone, somewhere was critical of the Strife meta of 12 months ago and decided to go balls-out DPS is precisely why we are even in a position of having this conversation in the first place. Not only that, but people being critical is great for identifying errors in math, inefficiencies in gear loadout, and finding minor changes that can improve the meta build over time.

Being critical is absolutely incumbent on the person evaluating their own choices.

If you picked a bad build starting out, that’s fine. There’s no shame in that, it happens. But it was still your choice, not anyone else’s. I do agree that it does serve the community as a whole to comment on and filter out the not so great from the great. But I believe even more in providing raw information so that the uninformed can make better choices for themselves based on the available information.

foofad.5162:

laharl.8435:

foofad.5162:

Even a year ago rares were comparatively cheap. You had every opportunity to try out other builds. You instead went with what you thought was the most acceptable build according to other people instead of trying something new yourself. Guides, and even bad advice, aren’t to blame for that.

People post a lot of stuff. The vast majority of it is speculation or personal opinions. It’s up to the reader to determine for themselves what’s worth considering and what isn’t. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to run a build that wasn’t time efficient. It’s not the guide’s fault you weren’t critical.

It’s not like my dungeons were failing, but I had nothing to judge by. I didn’t realize how fast and easy dungeons could be, but apparently neither did the people making build guides. Everyone in this forum and in my guild scoffed at the idea of a dps guardian. They’d all been playing longer than I, so who was I to tell them they’re wrong. Yes I wish I’d have thought of it myself earlier, but I didn’t. Either way, I was still faster to figure out pve in this game than many. Heck, you’re still stuck on condition guardian.

If anything, new players are the best source of innovation because they don’t have any preconception of what’s good or bad and they’re willing to experiment.

Eh, that’s kind of a load of crap. I have never, in any game I’ve ever played, seen a new player come in a build a meta. Sure with warrior in this game, it’s more about math, just get the highest dps attainable. To build a good guardian, dps isn’t the only consideration, one must have a good working knowledge of the game. Say I was slow to gain that knowledge if you want, I’m not arguing that. I’m just saying, man it would’ve been so nice to come into this game and learned a good build instead of some crap that sent me down the wrong path for far too long.

laharl.8435:

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months.

I’m not going to argue about how you felt it held back but you learned much more about how you want to play by doing it the way you did instead of someone telling you how to play. That is a valuable experience, even if you think it was a bad one. Gaining your own insight on how YOU want to play is worth all the gold you had and then some.

Obtena.7952:

laharl.8435:

Honestly, a guide similar to this held me back for ~6 months.

I’m not going to argue about how you felt it held back but you learned much more about how you want to play by doing it the way you did instead of someone telling you how to play. That is a valuable experience, even if you think it was a bad one. Gaining your own insight on how YOU want to play is worth all the gold you had and then some.

I can definitely agree that I learned within that time. It also molded me as a player, I don’t see that time as a complete waste. Just time spent very inefficiently. I see some players much newer than I who adopted good builds early on, they are thriving much earlier than I did (granted that will be subjective), they’re already making good coin, soloing lupi – attaining goals I feel I could’ve attained much earlier than I did. I’m not bitter for the time I spent in a bad build, of course I’m also to blame. I just dislike seeing new players fed bad information, because they don’t know any better.

After I finally made the transition to a dps guardian, I was still in an old guild (I’m in a dungeon guild now). New players who wanted to do pve were spread so much bad information by experienced players it was amazing. I would be met with arguments, “lolz” or “if you want dps, roll warrior” whenever I mentioned a dps guard. Yet I was the only person in the guild they would run arah with. They didn’t make the connection that my success in Arah was as much about my build switch as it was knowing the content.

Hopefully those new players, like yourself become ‘enlightened’ at some point and find what works for them for the content they want to do. Even if they are fed bad info by guildies, they might find that whatever build that leads them to satisfies their desires to play the game on their terms. That is more important than anything else.

Obtena.7952:

Hopefully those new players, like yourself become ‘enlightened’ at some point and find what works for them for the content they want to do. Even if they are fed bad info by guildies, they might find that whatever build that leads them to satisfies their desires to play the game on their terms. That is more important than anything else.

Indeed.

Honestly, asking guildies for advice generally is not a bad thing, but you also need to keep in mind who you are asking. Things like what class they main, and what game mode they play are going to be big factors, along with how they are personally regarding builds. Like me for instance, I generally try a large amount of different WvW builds, between roaming and group play. However, I rarely ever do dungeons, and only do a bit of hot join in sPvP.

Also there are going to be people that might swear by a single build being the best, when it isn’t (see video in OP) so my suggestion is try to find a build that you might be comfortable with for the game mode you play, and work from there. Customize it your own way, and do some research.

Asking on here isn’t a bad idea either, though it may lead to random fights due to min/maxing people, but you will get a good chunk of info and suggestions that you can always choose to follow or not follow.

Man am I glad that I found this thread. I’m just bulding up my first 80 wich is a Asura guardian and i watched the video and thought: Well looks great, but can there really be a viable Jack Of All Trades?
Now I go back to my previously planned “Boons for Days Build”. Thanks guys ;P

guys I’m a noob and I thought this video was legit but obviously it isn’t. Since you all seem to know so much, can someone link me to a good guardian wvw build? thanks

also, why do you say altruistic healing is bad…it seems so good?

Nausiation.1469:

guys I’m a noob and I thought this video was legit but obviously it isn’t. Since you all seem to know so much, can someone link me to a good guardian wvw build? thanks

also, why do you say altruistic healing is bad…it seems so good?

It is best at this point to really experiment and experience the guardian class yourself. Everyone is sorta on their heads about what is the best, but nothing beats raw personal experience and judge for yourself increasing originality and diversity. This is how the new BEST comes out on top.

You can read guides for ideas but never take anyone of them seriously. This is where you can innovate.

… As for this guide, I can’t make it past the first 20sec not because its bad. But the Narration is making my ears bleed and the constant self praise and boast is grating my brain.

Coltz.5617:

Nausiation.1469:

guys I’m a noob and I thought this video was legit but obviously it isn’t. Since you all seem to know so much, can someone link me to a good guardian wvw build? thanks

also, why do you say altruistic healing is bad…it seems so good?

It is best at this point to really experiment and experience the guardian class yourselves. Everyone is sorta on their heads about what is the best, but nothing beats raw personal experience and judge for yourself.

You can read guides for ideas but never take anyone of them seriously.

… As for this guide, I can’t make it past the first 20sec not because its bad. But the Narration is making my ears bleed and the constant self praise and boast is grating my brain.

while I do understand what you’re saying, I don’t want to end up buying gear for a build and it end up being complete garbage. There has GOT to be a build that everyone agrees is atleast good, obviously not everyone will believe it’s the best but I just need to know what NOT to build.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and it would be very difficult for an inexperienced player to top the knowledge that’s been assembled over the past year by some of the top players. Benefit from their experience and learn to play the game well… then you can deviate and make your own educated playstyle decisions.

@Naustiation,
Imo Brutaly is an experienced WvW Guardian. This is his build guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-30-pts-in-valor-gameplay-Hammer/page/12#post3423681
He should be able to answer your questions.

The reason Altruistic Healing is considered bad in PvE is because it does not contribute to your party’s over all effectiveness in any way, and there are better things you can get with the 30 trait points. In WvW and in PvP it is still a viable trait.

Finnway.2183:

Everyone has to start somewhere, and it would be very difficult for an inexperienced player to top the knowledge that’s been assembled over the past year by some of the top players. Benefit from their experience and learn to play the game well… then you can deviate and make your own educated playstyle decisions.

yes, knowledge is gained from experience, but the thing is this guy has videos of him 1v3ing using his builds and he wins…so one one side there is video proof of him succeeding with his builds and on the other side there are TONS of pro players saying it’s the worst build they’ve seen. I am so confused and torn as to what types of builds are good.

people are saying altruistic healing is horrible, but I don’t see any reason why and I would personally use it in game. but if it truly is bad then I shouldn’t run it. I need to know why people say it’s bad.

Finnway.2183:

Everyone has to start somewhere, and it would be very difficult for an inexperienced player to top the knowledge that’s been assembled over the past year by some of the top players. Benefit from their experience and learn to play the game well… then you can deviate and make your own educated playstyle decisions.

Info is ever changing with updates.. and knowledge? You mean what is the accepted in the meta kind of knowledge? To start from scratch I recommend mastering your dodge so you won’t die, then your class specific mechanic. Depending on feel of what you usually do outside of dodging and mastering your mechanic defines your own playstyle. Your playstyle determines your skills, weapons, which affects your traits. The resulting playstyle can be furthered by corresponding stats, which gives you an idea of your basic armor.

After all this you should already figure out some tricks for your profession, If not you then read other peoples guide ( understanding why they build it so ) and incorporating the ideas in your build ( get inspired ). If you still can’t figure out any neat combinations and tricks after that (and reading all descriptions). Then you probrably skipped some of the steps I explained.

You have people 3v1 and having that 1 winning because the 3 people fighting just skips all the logical steps to build their characters or blindly follows someone else’s build without realizing how to use it in the first place. There may be other reasons
(such as skipping the learning to dodge part) but those are the main ones.

Anyone else think this guy sounds like daffy duck?

Nausiation.1469:

Finnway.2183:

Everyone has to start somewhere, and it would be very difficult for an inexperienced player to top the knowledge that’s been assembled over the past year by some of the top players. Benefit from their experience and learn to play the game well… then you can deviate and make your own educated playstyle decisions.

yes, knowledge is gained from experience, but the thing is this guy has videos of him 1v3ing using his builds and he wins…so one one side there is video proof of him succeeding with his builds and on the other side there are TONS of pro players saying it’s the worst build they’ve seen. I am so confused and torn as to what types of builds are good.

people are saying altruistic healing is horrible, but I don’t see any reason why and I would personally use it in game. but if it truly is bad then I shouldn’t run it. I need to know why people say it’s bad.

AH is bad is certain situations. In large zerging, it is the go to thing, since you get all kinds of heals by spamming boons to allies.

And as far as doing well in WvW roaming, there are videos of people killing others naked. So WvW highlights can be really hard to gather any useful info from. You will learn in time what builds just aren’t worth your time. Keep researching and get a better idea of things, until you can form your own opinion.

Nausiation.1469:

guys I’m a noob and I thought this video was legit but obviously it isn’t. Since you all seem to know so much, can someone link me to a good guardian wvw build? thanks

also, why do you say altruistic healing is bad…it seems so good?

The good information on the classes are usually here on the forums. It is hard to get a good idea if a build is good or not from just a youtube video. Here the video would get combed over and time to think about it analyze it and then critique.

I am new on Guardian but it is the samething over on the Ele forums that I frequent. The good information is on the forums usually a detailed write up of a build has videos to go with it.

Since this build is kitten , what are the PRO guardians of GW2 are running nowadays?

15/15/0/20/20 hammer great for fractals
15/25/0/20/10 hammer great for fractals
10/30/0/5/25 sword+greatsword sustained, good scepter backup
20/25/0/0/25 mostly greatsword, lacks vigor, ideal for dungeons

All in zerker gear, scholar runes, force/night/bloodlust sigils.

This build, 30/30/0/5/5, works fine for quick pug dungeon runs but the dps is not a huge amount higher than the above, and loses a lot of utility and possible dps if you can keep unscathed defender up.

10/25/0/10/25 for fractals and dungeons. 10/30/0/5/25 seems like slightly better dps but having shout cd means you can increase dps more often with save yourselves. This is more ideal for solo situations but its also a relevant point to take note of when doing group content aswell.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

so you don’t spend money on gear before you min/max it all

FOUR HUNDRED THIRTY ONE CONDITION DAMAGE!

/dramatic zoom in.

Totally convinced. I’m going to cast aside my inferior ways and go buy clerics/celestial trinkets.

lol I sometimes listen to this while I read other things just for lol.