Guild Wars 2

Ok so far we saw the mesmer and necromancer specizalations. I keep seeing the same thing “they got more then us, we just got traps”.

Yes mesmer got an amazing rework on the traits and some nice skills. Yes necromancer new shroud looks extremely amazing. But they are sadly still a selfish class.

But we got a longbow! We finally have a nice long range weapon. Guardian was already in a great place. I would still pick a guardian over a reaper. People seem to forget that you can play your guardian similar to how you did before but with the much needed longbow. I think we will become pve gods, and in pvp or wvw trap condition builds will be insane. Our new virtues are pretty solid and seem to still do damage and support.

Me personally I think we got EXACTLY what we needed. Do other classes get more? Sure they did now they are on par with the Guardian. But we got dragonhunter!

Am I the only one super psyched to play this class?

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

Chronomancers are selfish? They basically allow mesmers to specialize into support. Dragonhunters just make guardians more selfish and more like jacks-of-all-trades. The amount of support in DH is minimal, which is what I have a problem with. DH was advertized as a ranged damage/backline support spec; in no way, shape, or form is this a backline support spec, nor does it even offer much support at all (probably takes away more support than it gives).
I don’t play a guardian to be a ranger-wannabe with a lot of control. I play a guardian to support, and I was hoping that the elite spec would allow me to support more from the backlines with less of an emphasis on self-defense and more of an emphasis on selfless glassy support. Instead I got this and ANet threatening to remove Tome of Courage.
I honestly hope this spec gets redesigned by a different designer, but I don’t have much faith in ANet at the moment.

Farzo.8410:

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

+1

Fashion Mage.3712:

Chronomancers are selfish? They basically allow mesmers to specialize into support. Dragonhunters just make guardians more selfish and more like jack-of-all-trades. The amount of support in DH is minimal, which is what I have a problem with. DH was advertized as a ranged damage/backline support spec; in no way, shape, or form is this a backline support spec, or even offer much support at all (probably takes away more support than it gives).
I don’t play a guardian to be a ranger-wannabe with a lot of control. I play a guardian to support, and I was hoping that the elite spec would allow me to support more from the backlines with less of an emphasis on self-defense and more of an emphasis on selfless glassy support. Instead I got this and ANet threatening to remove Tome of Courage.
I honestly hope this spec gets redesigned by a different designer, but I don’t have much faith in ANet at the moment.

Farzo.8410:

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

+1

I think he meant necros are selfish. And Guardians will be fine and so will DH as long as they tweak the cooldown on the reworked virtues (1min cd on a 600 range leap is ridiculous even if they have to nerf the healing or tack a significant cd reduction to the damage trait)

Vizardlorde.8243:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Chronomancers are selfish? They basically allow mesmers to specialize into support. Dragonhunters just make guardians more selfish and more like jack-of-all-trades. The amount of support in DH is minimal, which is what I have a problem with. DH was advertized as a ranged damage/backline support spec; in no way, shape, or form is this a backline support spec, or even offer much support at all (probably takes away more support than it gives).
I don’t play a guardian to be a ranger-wannabe with a lot of control. I play a guardian to support, and I was hoping that the elite spec would allow me to support more from the backlines with less of an emphasis on self-defense and more of an emphasis on selfless glassy support. Instead I got this and ANet threatening to remove Tome of Courage.
I honestly hope this spec gets redesigned by a different designer, but I don’t have much faith in ANet at the moment.

Farzo.8410:

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

+1

I think he meant necros are selfish. And Guardians will be fine and so will DH as long as they tweak the cooldown on the reworked virtues (1min cd on a 600 range leap is ridiculous even if they have to nerf the healing or tack a significant cd reduction to the damage trait)

Yes it was necromancer I meant. The cooldown for the barrage needs fixed for sure. With the virtues I could me mistaken but in the video I thought they said the passive effect would still continue while on cooldown. This could be a big game changer to incourage us to always use virtues now so the cooldown may not seem that bad

From the POV that this game promotes an active defense with high damage to reduce encounter time, Guardian has one of the best positions in the game for PVE. The DH trait line only reinforces our position in that PVE hierarchy as one of the best professions to play for optimal performance.

From a PVP perspective, it appears that many of the concerns are addressed. We got a Long range weapon that allows us to continue our support role and maintain our other strengths as well. Also, Anet has ensured there exists a (healthy) deficiency in other aspects to maintain the challenge of playing the class in PVP.

I don’t really feel that anyone complaining about the changes in either aspect of PVE or PVP has a really objective perspective on the game. As far as other classes are concerned from the recent reveals on elite spec, they barely come close to achieving the same status as Guardians.

People crying about wanting to support even more than they’re already capable of confuse me. What do you want? Perma invuln for all of your team mates? Perma 25 stacks of might? Or how about random teleports? What about perma wards. Honestly. Guard has ENOUGH support options and when they finally tone cele down even more, I believe even bunker guards will make a reappearance competitively. We’ve sacrificed enough personal DPS in the name of support. You can STILL play your support guard if you want and rock the base changes really nicely. Also, iirc, the devs plan to stash away the tomes and add an elite shout and an elite signet with really powerful effects for all of your supporting needs.

Dragonhunter works in PvE since it’s just piling on more damage and you don’t really lose much support-wise. For any PvE encounter where you need something from the virtues line, you just spec into Virtues for the fight and swap back afterwards.

In PvP, I don’t think Dragonhunter will work out so well. The changes DH imposes on virtues hamper the group support you would get from the Virtues trait line. The DH design is about being more offensive, but the traps are for area control, which favor staying put. Then you have traits which want you to keep enemies at range. But you don’t have a reliable ranged snare nor burst from range, so enemies can easily kite or just run away. If you use longbow and ignore traps, I don’t see it being any more useful than scepter. Traps are too easy to defeat by triggering them and backing away until the effect ends – the same way you deal with a trap ranger – except DH ones have much longer cooldowns.

when hot will come ithink it ill be the end of gurdians i can bet on it actully for use well with bow you need to sacrfaise atraits line so it is bad and traps = lame honstley
new dh animatione horribe comper to reaper and crenomter the are not bad but comper to those too they are.
even if you going to stick with medi build it not going to be as good as befeore since reaper got way much condi and even with his sohuts he can dmg and condi..

BadSanta.6527:

when hot will come ithink it ill be the end of gurdians i can bet on it actully for use well with bow you need to sacrfaise atraits line so it is bad and traps = lame honstley
new dh animatione horribe comper to reaper and crenomter the are not bad but comper to those too they are.
even if you going to stick with medi build it not going to be as good as befeore since reaper got way much condi and even with his sohuts he can dmg and condi..

That’s absolute nonsense. IF the new traits are bad, people will simply revert to the old ones, which are admittedly already quote good and being changed to be even better in HoT. Also, the notion the profession is at an end because of something like animations is ridiculous. Medi build will still be good and will not be diminished because of a single profession’s access to a new skill. Please stop.

Exedore.6320:

Dragonhunter works in PvE since it’s just piling on more damage and you don’t really lose much support-wise. For any PvE encounter where you need something from the virtues line, you just spec into Virtues for the fight and swap back afterwards.

In PvP, I don’t think Dragonhunter will work out so well. The changes DH imposes on virtues hamper the group support you would get from the Virtues trait line. The DH design is about being more offensive, but the traps are for area control, which favor staying put. Then you have traits which want you to keep enemies at range. But you don’t have a reliable ranged snare nor burst from range, so enemies can easily kite or just run away. If you use longbow and ignore traps, I don’t see it being any more useful than scepter. Traps are too easy to defeat by triggering them and backing away until the effect ends – the same way you deal with a trap ranger – except DH ones have much longer cooldowns.

Judging from the tooltips we saw longbow will hit harder and more reliable than scepter and also has more aoe and stuff for teamfights. I wouldn’t say DH meditation guard won’t be a thing. At least not before I tried it.

SlayerSixx.5763:

People crying about wanting to support even more than they’re already capable of confuse me. What do you want? Perma invuln for all of your team mates? Perma 25 stacks of might? Or how about random teleports? What about perma wards. Honestly. Guard has ENOUGH support options and when they finally tone cele down even more, I believe even bunker guards will make a reappearance competitively. We’ve sacrificed enough personal DPS in the name of support. You can STILL play your support guard if you want and rock the base changes really nicely. Also, iirc, the devs plan to stash away the tomes and add an elite shout and an elite signet with really powerful effects for all of your supporting needs.

People wanting to specialize further into support from a profession that is meant to primarily offer support confuses you? What do you think is the theme that drew people to this profession in the first place?
Do you think that the only guardians that exist are meditation guardians or something? Just because they’re the meta doesn’t mean that’s true, but ANet might think so since this spec is basically here just to cater to the flaws of meditation guardians, so that they can be perfectly rounded. The opposite of specialization, ironically.

We’ve “sacrificed enough DPS for support”, yet -if I recall correctly- we have one of the best levels of DPS in PvE, and it’s not like meditation guardians don’t do a lot of damage.

ANet considering removing tomes bothers me, and it should bother anyone interested in the idea of supporting from the backline as a guardian.

Farzo.8410:

Sylent.3165:

Guardian was already in a great place.

This line is the bane of my existence.

Fashion Mage.3712:

SlayerSixx.5763:

People crying about wanting to support even more than they’re already capable of confuse me. What do you want? Perma invuln for all of your team mates? Perma 25 stacks of might? Or how about random teleports? What about perma wards. Honestly. Guard has ENOUGH support options and when they finally tone cele down even more, I believe even bunker guards will make a reappearance competitively. We’ve sacrificed enough personal DPS in the name of support. You can STILL play your support guard if you want and rock the base changes really nicely. Also, iirc, the devs plan to stash away the tomes and add an elite shout and an elite signet with really powerful effects for all of your supporting needs.

People wanting to specialize further into support from a profession that is meant to primarily offer support confuses you?
Do you think that the only guardians that exist are meditation guardians or something? Just because they’re the meta doesn’t mean that’s true, but ANet might think so since this spec is basically here just to cater to the flaws of meditation guardians, so that they can be perfectly rounded. The opposite of specialization, ironically.

We’ve “sacrificed enough DPS for support”, yet -if I recall correctly- we have one of the best levels of DPS in PvE, and it’s not like meditation guardians don’t do a lot of damage.

ANet considering removing tomes bothers me, and it should bother anyone interested in the idea of supporting from the backline as a guardian.

What I want to know is what else you could honestly ask for in terms of support? You have access to every boon in the game in moderate quantities, you have some rather nifty ways of directly mitigating damage (sanctuary, wall of reflection, shield skills, mace skills). Of course, in terms of party heals, we’ve been out done by the cele meta, but that might change when the cele nerf and trait rework drop. What else could anet honestly give you guys? We might get an super OP elite signet that would practically make you a godlike healer.

We’ve sacrificed all of the soft CC and viable sources of swiftness just because we can " support". That’s what I mean. As it currently stands, we have no cripples across any weapon set, no sources of chill (save for GH), our only “reliable” source of swiftness requires a crappy overall weapon (aptly named the boon stick) that requires us to stand inside for a few seconds to fully utilize.

I’m happy a DPS oriented specialization is coming out. Now, to make things fair and balanced, they should make the base guard focus on supporting, although I’m not sure how they’d do that.

I’d be more happy about a DPS/range-oriented spec if it didn’t have traps and it actually reinforced the base class, instead of being almost an entirely different one. As it stands, I don’t care for what we’re getting at all and am more interested in dropping Guardian entirely for a Revenant.

@Fashion Mage

You keep saying support but everything from DPS, snares, CC and boons/healing is considered support. I think what you are asking for is more defensive support? But even you realize how ridiculous that sounds so you just say “support” instead.

Remember when you replied to me that the specialization is not suppose to be an upgrade to our current position and yet you ask for the same thing only on the defensive side which is already BUILT in in our core design. What do you want from guardian? Long Range healing?

An off-side joke but someone from The Underworld says hi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus

Just to give you an idea of what the greeks saw as a “Guardian”

creepmatic.9435:

@Fashion Mage

You keep saying support but everything from DPS, snares, CC and boons/healing is considered support. I think what you are asking for is more defensive support? But even you realize how ridiculous that sounds so you just say “support” instead.

Remember when you replied to me that the specialization is not suppose to be an upgrade to our current position and yet you ask for the same thing only on the defensive side which is already BUILT in in our core design. What do you want from guardian? Long Range healing?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Support
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Control
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

To put it simply, I want to play glassy support from range. I want to be as selfless as possible when it comes to support; that and close-range don’t mix well. I’m not asking for an upgrade, I’m asking for a different way to support, and that’s at range at the cost of self-defensive ability. A reverse glass staff ele, something glassy but whose supportive ability is so strong that they’d be focused first. If what I was hoping for came with the ability to also deal decent damage at range, I would be happy with that too, but unfortunately support isn’t a part of the DH package. That was lost when 90% of the longbow’s supportive ability was stripped along with the leaked longbow’s support stance.

Great place? Spirit Weapons! Signets! Tomes. Meditations in PVE! Sword#AA3! Hammer#5! Torch! Shield!

Guardian could also be more offensive. More fire, more fury. That might be fixed via the new traits. And elite shout.

Don’t get me wrong. The LB seems to be good and an enhancement of our kitten nal. Especially the projectile speed is the real bonus.

raubvogel.5071:

Great place? Spirit Weapons! Signets! Tomes. Meditations in PVE! Sword#AA3! Hammer#5! Torch! Shield!

Guardian could also be more offensive. More fire, more fury. That might be fixed via the new traits. And elite shout.

Don’t get me wrong. The LB seems to be good and an enhancement of our kitten nal. Especially the projectile speed is the real bonus.

Even though we have some issues, those things do not reflect the professions state as a whole. It is in a good place, we will be even better with HoT

raubvogel.5071:

Great place? Spirit Weapons! Signets! Tomes. Meditations in PVE! Sword#AA3! Hammer#5! Torch! Shield!

Guardian could also be more offensive. More fire, more fury. That might be fixed via the new traits. And elite shout.

Don’t get me wrong. The LB seems to be good and an enhancement of our kitten nal. Especially the projectile speed is the real bonus.

There is no perfect class in this game other wise everyone would play just one class. I really feel the dh with bow and utility skills and new virtues is going to make this a very great class overall

SlayerSixx.5763:

Fashion Mage.3712:

SlayerSixx.5763:

People crying about wanting to support even more than they’re already capable of confuse me. What do you want? Perma invuln for all of your team mates? Perma 25 stacks of might? Or how about random teleports? What about perma wards. Honestly. Guard has ENOUGH support options and when they finally tone cele down even more, I believe even bunker guards will make a reappearance competitively. We’ve sacrificed enough personal DPS in the name of support. You can STILL play your support guard if you want and rock the base changes really nicely. Also, iirc, the devs plan to stash away the tomes and add an elite shout and an elite signet with really powerful effects for all of your supporting needs.

People wanting to specialize further into support from a profession that is meant to primarily offer support confuses you?
Do you think that the only guardians that exist are meditation guardians or something? Just because they’re the meta doesn’t mean that’s true, but ANet might think so since this spec is basically here just to cater to the flaws of meditation guardians, so that they can be perfectly rounded. The opposite of specialization, ironically.

We’ve “sacrificed enough DPS for support”, yet -if I recall correctly- we have one of the best levels of DPS in PvE, and it’s not like meditation guardians don’t do a lot of damage.

ANet considering removing tomes bothers me, and it should bother anyone interested in the idea of supporting from the backline as a guardian.

What I want to know is what else you could honestly ask for in terms of support? You have access to every boon in the game in moderate quantities, you have some rather nifty ways of directly mitigating damage (sanctuary, wall of reflection, shield skills, mace skills). Of course, in terms of party heals, we’ve been out done by the cele meta, but that might change when the cele nerf and trait rework drop. What else could anet honestly give you guys? We might get an super OP elite signet that would practically make you a godlike healer.

We’ve sacrificed all of the soft CC and viable sources of swiftness just because we can " support". That’s what I mean. As it currently stands, we have no cripples across any weapon set, no sources of chill (save for GH), our only “reliable” source of swiftness requires a crappy overall weapon (aptly named the boon stick) that requires us to stand inside for a few seconds to fully utilize.

I’m happy a DPS oriented specialization is coming out. Now, to make things fair and balanced, they should make the base guard focus on supporting, although I’m not sure how they’d do that.

shield 5 will cripple and bubble/dome wil be bigger i think this is awesome, pity is not in the native skill.

raubvogel.5071:

Great place? Spirit Weapons! Signets! Tomes. Meditations in PVE! Sword#AA3! Hammer#5! Torch! Shield!

Guardian could also be more offensive. More fire, more fury. That might be fixed via the new traits. And elite shout.

Don’t get me wrong. The LB seems to be good and an enhancement of our kitten nal. Especially the projectile speed is the real bonus.

I use bane signet in PVE all the time since my Guild leader is also a guardian. SotA is the only useful SW but its pretty good at what it does. Sword AA3 and ZD are an issue ,but they don’t stop sword from being part of the guardian Meta. Hammer 4-5 are common sense never use hard cc in pve unless you actually want to strip defiance.