Guild Wars 2

I’m rather new to guardian and has been told that dragonhunters basically out performs guard in most areas of the game.
since i lack knowledge and playtime regarding guardians, i’m here to procure information on.
basically I’m asking about:
1. pro n con of DH vs Guard
2. When to be base guard and when not to be(pvp/pve)

my limited impressions regarding the pointlessness of the existence of base guardian:
1. why is this 4 sec cd long bow skill hitting harder than whirling wrath
2. how is it fair that virtue of courage on guard has the same cd as vitrue of courage on DH when DH ’s version is like 10 billion times stronger

pleas forgive my stupidity and lack of knowledge, in my case, i haven’t played guard since HoT released, and the only build i ever played on guardian is triple medi.

The thing to understand, is that DH is a trait line, not an entire build. DH traitline is incredibly strong comparatively to other guardian lines, because it massively improves your Virtues (affecting every build permeation) and it has a great balance between CC, survivability, and damage (offering a lot of flexibility in a single line). A similarly designed line is Virtues, which almost all guardian builds had previously.

In general, with the exception of condi builds you should almost always have DH as one of your traitlines, even if you are not using any of the traps or the bow.

1. why is this 4 sec cd long bow skill hitting harder than whirling wrath?
It doesn’t, Whirling Wrath does more damage as well as gains additional boosts due to it hitting multiple times (for example higher justice procs, and more vulnerability when coupled with Big Game Hunter).

2. How is it fair that virtue of courage on guard has the same cd as vitrue of courage on DH when DH ’s version is like 10 billion times stronger?
Cooldowns on core guardian were terribly long to begin with and the Devs never took the time to rebalance them as the game progress. DH was designed fresh with a better understanding of how the game works and therefore has better balance between cooldowns and effects.

Nothing dumb about realising the fact that this elite spec too made its core class obsolete.
What reason is there to not go DH? Burn-hybrid and AH-shout build?

Guardian definitely needs some love. Elite specializations were never supposed to be “stronger”. They should just give new role to the profession. Guardian got stronger in AoE DPS and CC. He also gets much better virtues. Developers shouldn’t forget that virtues without DH traitline need a little boost.

The point of specializations was supposed to be that you lose something but you also gain something (there used to be a lot of discussion topics on this matter). What we lost in the transition from Guardian into Dragon Hunter? The answer is: the original virtues.

Original Virtues have (in PVP without any trinkets and traits):
F1: insta cast, 25 sec cooldown, every 5 seconds soft burn,
Activation: strong burn for you and your party in the next attack.
F2: insta cast, 50 sec cooldown, passive healing for 84,
Activation: party heal for 1625
F3: insta cast, 75 sec cooldown, passive aegis that refreshes every 40 seconds,
Activation: party aegis for 20 sec

New virtues have:
F1: 1/4 sec cast, 20 sec cooldown, soft burning every kittens
activation: unblockable damaging projectile that applies soft burn over a long period of time and allowing to execute it prematurely for extra very strong pull
F2: 1 sec casting time, 30 sec cooldown, 84 passive heal
Activation: AoE 3890 heal with leap combo finisher, cures immobilized
F3: has a casting time, 75 sec cooldown, passive aegis that refreshes every 40 sec
activation: 1 party aegis for 20 sec + blocking projectiles in front of the character for 20 sec

From this breakdown, you can see, that:
F1 skill on DH is a pure boost over basic version. There is no reason why somebody would prefer the basic one.
F2 on DH has 20 sec shorter CD for more than 100% stronger heal. It heals only people in the smart circle and not in the 600 range, but it is definitely much better.
F3 on DH has only one annoying property – not having insta cast…if you have something in the skill queue, you cast F3 after that. That is however a fair exchange for nice projectile block

What I think should be improved on base guardian:
F1: much lower cooldown or much stronger burn on activation
F2: much stronger passive heal and much shorter cooldown
F3: this one is alright…. I would however give both versions of this skill much lower CD… like every 40 seconds.

Vikkela.7261:

Nothing dumb about realising the fact that this elite spec too made its core class obsolete.
What reason is there to not go DH? Burn-hybrid and AH-shout build?

Base guardian is still strong in wvw

Mortifer.2946:

F3 on DH has only one annoying property – not having insta cast…if you have something in the skill queue, you cast F3 after that. That is however a fair exchange for nice projectile block
CD… like every 40 seconds.

edit
its not just a projectile block. it blocks any attack even aoes as long as ur enemie is infront of you, in my ponion its much much stronger than the base line version which is just a single ageis

true shot has nearly the damage of 2stage adrenaline kill shot this is so strong i’m basically giving up melee. yes, whirling wrath has a higher damage modifier (like 10-15% more) but if not all hits on Whirling wrath crit then it simply dosnt hit as hard as true shot.

I’m a bit of kitten how i want to play my guard as melee but seeing how range has near melee level damage and that true shot burst is just… how I’m just sitting in my bow most of the time

Zantmar.5406:

Mortifer.2946:

F3 on DH has only one annoying property – not having insta cast…if you have something in the skill queue, you cast F3 after that. That is however a fair exchange for nice projectile block
CD… like every 40 seconds.

its not just a projectile block. it blocks any attack even aoes as long as ur enemie is infront of you, in my ponion its much much stronger than the base line version which is just a single ageis

Really? I never noticed that. It shouldn’t however. It clearly says it blocks projectiles, nothing else.

True Shot locks you in spot. Whirling wrath doesn’t. True shot does damage only in line. Whirling wrath does damage all around you + it is more projectiles than true shot, so you can do much better combos.

Bow is not the problem. The basic guardian is.

Sird.4536:

Vikkela.7261:

Nothing dumb about realising the fact that this elite spec too made its core class obsolete.
What reason is there to not go DH? Burn-hybrid and AH-shout build?

Base guardian is still strong in wvw

I still use the base guardian builds but changed out Virtues with Dragon hunter because of the overwhelming strength of the DH virtues (and the option to use trap now and then).

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I still use the base guardian builds but changed out Virtues with Dragon hunter because of the overwhelming strength of the DH virtues (and the option to use trap now and then).

I switched back from DH recently since all that CC-spam makes the DH virtues unreliable in big fights that seem to negate all the stability you can toss out

Vikkela.7261:

MaximillianVonSchatten.6278:

I still use the base guardian builds but changed out Virtues with Dragon hunter because of the overwhelming strength of the DH virtues (and the option to use trap now and then).

I switched back from DH recently since all that CC-spam makes the DH virtues unreliable in big fights that seem to negate all the stability you can toss out

Come to think of it, I have been having problems with Wings of Resolve now and then. I thought Wings of Resolve was supposed to break immobilize; is it bugged?

there’s a trait that let it break immobile i think