Guild Wars 2

pls vote for the build so we know if the community like it or not

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Hybrid_Dmg

“Counters

Well played condition engineer/necro
Well played S/D thieves"

I can kill engis with this build without mainhand weapons and you call it a counter to this build? wat

Also I think it’s pretty ridicolous that Greatsword is the default choice in this build, especially now that torch got buffed.

I think the build is still really niche and deserves a spot right next to condi mesmer, condi ele and other stupid 1v1 specs.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Also I think it’s pretty ridicolous that Greatsword is the default choice in this build, especially now that torch got buffed.

I agree that greatsword is not a very good pick for this. Both focus and torch are very strong for hybrid builds, so it makes more sense to go with a pair of one-handed weapons so you can bring both.

Keksmuffin.1450:

“Counters

Well played condition engineer/necro
Well played S/D thieves"

I can kill engis with this build without mainhand weapons and you call it a counter to this build? wat

Also I think it’s pretty ridicolous that Greatsword is the default choice in this build, especially now that torch got buffed.

I think the build is still really niche and deserves a spot right next to condi mesmer, condi ele and other stupid 1v1 specs.

Add counter:

Ranger

Keksmuffin.1450:

“Counters

Well played condition engineer/necro
Well played S/D thieves"

I can kill engis with this build without mainhand weapons and you call it a counter to this build? wat

Also I think it’s pretty ridicolous that Greatsword is the default choice in this build, especially now that torch got buffed.

I think the build is still really niche and deserves a spot right next to condi mesmer, condi ele and other stupid 1v1 specs.

I don’t want to discredit your abilities but, there are some really good engies who, this build will not work on.

In my experiences the counters to burn guards are

-Most Diamond Skin Ele’s
With GS you might do enough damage to pierce their 90% threshold, If not, this is the single biggest hard counter we have. It’s not even funny

-Classes high in condi cleanses
Assuming they know you’re a condi guard… most don’t thus you’ll easily outplay them

-“Very” good Medi Guards
not all can use their condi cleanses…

-Some Condi Engi’s and Turret Engis
-Hambow Warriors or equivalent Knights build
-Some Minion Necros
-Some Spirit Rangers
-Some Condi Rangers
-Some Thieves Very rare but can still get outplayed…

The overall condi guard spec is a 50/50 win against the above. If they know every single thing about your build, and they have 4 condi cleanses or more, odds are you’re going to get outplayed.

GS vs Sword Torch
One does more raw Groups damage, the other is for smaller group 1v1/2v2
The main issue about going head to head against a team is that any condition you apply first, will get cleansed right away.
It’s why no one likes using condi in zerg fests. That goes for every single 1v1 condi spec, including condi engi’s, condi rangers, etc.

EDITED
Constructive feedback appreciated!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Vid-Light-s-Condi-Guard-SPvP-1v1/first#post4738627

Diamond skin Eles and Warriors. You should definitely beat 9 times out of 10. The only exception to that rule would be Shout Warriors.

Not that I care much about guardian condition builds, but I just thought I should mention that Binding Blade scales pretty well with condition damage.

Ppl are still stuck with their condi/hybrid builds? Boy what the point really, this kinda builds is only good in 1vs1 really -.-

mPascoal.4258:

Ppl are still stuck with their condi/hybrid builds? Boy what the point really, this kinda builds is only good in 1vs1 really -.-

medzerk is only good in 1v1
hybrid good at both 1v1 and group play cause of the condi aoe pressure it puts out if played right
1v1 i prefer the medzerk
in group fight i take hybrid anyday

Just thought I’d drop a comment here: a new voting system is coming, you’ll actually have to do a brief reasoning where you explain the rating you’re about to give – so throwing 5 stars at a build simply because someone’s obsessed with it won’t be considered a valid reason thus the vote will be invalid.

Dantes is working on a voting policy too, this is not finished yet but already gives a guideline.

With this we’ll be closer to the voting system of the old GWPvX wiki.

This build’s a 3 (Mediocore) at best according to the future policy I’ve linked. You also have to keep in mind that builds are rated based on existing gamemodes (Conquest and at some point Stronghold), just because something’s good at 1v1s does not always mean it’s recommended for the given gamemode.

wow if it got 3 than its trash – do you really think so ?
i think it should be 4 right next to the medzerk as i dont get why medzerk got 4 in the metacomp atm
even in the description it say it solid match up of the thief and the same goes with hybrid which also solid match up for engi, ele and any cele meta atm

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds. Unless those specs got a 3 score too… which I doubt. Even though the spec itself isn’t my play style, the build itself is on par with zerk meds in terms of consistency.

I’ll get on the site and vote, for the simple fact that condi excels against other builds that Zerk Meds have trouble with. That in itself is worth a higher grade.

EDITED
Oh and try playing with geomancy + torment sigs. It does more damage in groups as apposed to a single condi condition; doom or Earth.

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds. Unless those specs got a 3 score too… which I doubt. Even though the spec itself isn’t my play style, the build itself is on par with zerk meds in terms of consistency.

I’ll get on the site and vote, for the simple fact that condi excels against other builds that Zerk Meds have trouble with. That in itself is worth a higher grade.

EDITED
Oh and try playing with geomancy + torment sigs. It does more damage in groups as apposed to a single condi condition; doom or Earth.

It’s true that condi/hybrid guard kills some stuff that the usual zerker guard has problems with (most notable engi) but that allone doesn’t really mean anything in a 5v5 gamemode. Condi thief freekills condi engis while zerker thief is pretty much countered by them. Does that mean condi thief is viable now?

Also torment sigils proc on crit and with carrion you have less than 10% crit chance. I don’t really see how that would be worth it.

Cons: (compared to engi/ranger):

• Worse mobility
• No access to vigor (or any form of faster endurance regeneration)/protection
• Less access to conditions (a lot)
• Worse CC options
• Brings nothing to the team except for basic class mechanics of 2 supportive virtues, and every other guard spec does that better
• Deals less damage/dies faster in teamfights
• Lack of conditions to cover burn with

Cons (compared to med zerker)

• Slower
• Less AoE damage
• Less sustain (lack of vigor, protection, and it has worse condi cleansing)
• Less party utility

Pros:

• More burning, I guess?

If the med zerker wouldn’t exist I’d (maybe) rate it 4, because it’s not a bad build. The problem is, it has the same skill bar but it’s worse in basically everything, which makes it an inferior copy of the build. I know it’s supposed to be a “hybrid”, but the only conditions you have that a zerker does not comes solely from your sigils.

As an example I could bring up the Dhuumfire build. At some point this build was meta/great, but it’s identical to the terrormancer build which is a lot more popular in this meta so we archived Dhuumfire, removing it from the main page.

Every build under the Good category has something significant that the class’ builds in Great/Meta don’t. If consecration or signet or whatever condi guard becomes a thing then it’ll have something to offer that other guard specs don’t, but until that day it’s just a less effective meditation build.

Another thing is, conquest holds back many builds. In a 1v1 or 2v2 this build would have an easier time because many of the cons would be irrelevant.

We do not delete builds, so if something significant change happens to the gamemode variety or the spec itself, we can just dust it off, and reset ratings for a fresh start, so even if it does not make it to Good now that does not mean it won’t make it at some point in the future :P

Keksmuffin.1450:

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds. Unless those specs got a 3 score too… which I doubt. Even though the spec itself isn’t my play style, the build itself is on par with zerk meds in terms of consistency.

I’ll get on the site and vote, for the simple fact that condi excels against other builds that Zerk Meds have trouble with. That in itself is worth a higher grade.

EDITED
Oh and try playing with geomancy + torment sigs. It does more damage in groups as apposed to a single condi condition; doom or Earth.

Condi thief freekills condi engis while zerker thief is pretty much countered by them. Does that mean condi thief is viable now?

Are you saying condi Engi’s are viable? Curious because you used it as an example. If they are then so are condi guards (62600 sw/t sc/f) since there both technically play the same roles in conquest.

You’re right about torment I miss read the toolbar >.<
My mistake!

Condi Engie’s provide blast finishing healing for the team, more CC, cripple, chill, much much more applications of damage condi’s (single target and AoE), and have a stomp mechanic.

The only thing messiah’s build provides to the team that most condi engie builds can’t is immobilize (unless they run bomb kit).

I don’t see these two builds even close to comparing.

Saiyan.1704:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds. Unless those specs got a 3 score too… which I doubt. Even though the spec itself isn’t my play style, the build itself is on par with zerk meds in terms of consistency.

I’ll get on the site and vote, for the simple fact that condi excels against other builds that Zerk Meds have trouble with. That in itself is worth a higher grade.

EDITED
Oh and try playing with geomancy + torment sigs. It does more damage in groups as apposed to a single condi condition; doom or Earth.

Condi thief freekills condi engis while zerker thief is pretty much countered by them. Does that mean condi thief is viable now?

Are you saying condi Engi’s are viable? Curious because you used it as an example. If they are then so are condi guards (62600 sw/t sc/f) since there both technically play the same roles in conquest.

You’re right about torment I miss read the toolbar >.<
My mistake!

condi engi’s have been meta since, ever?
just because of this comment i assume you play hotjoin or maby unranked. playing a build that does well in hotjoin doesnt make it meta, or even close to meta. and yes. i have played this build the day after april 2014, after the 33% burn buff. i have played and tested every single possible hybrid build(bullet can approve this, he hates my whispers:D). none of the hybrid builds work as solid as zerg with 4 in virtues.
even if my favorite build is 2/6/6 full zerg dps which i love to 1 shot ppl with, you cant a good sustain build.
so i think it would be nice if ppl would say at which level they play their builds, so it will prevent these useless discussions about proving whos right or wrong.

SilkySmooth.1574:

Saiyan.1704:

Keksmuffin.1450:

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds. Unless those specs got a 3 score too… which I doubt. Even though the spec itself isn’t my play style, the build itself is on par with zerk meds in terms of consistency.

I’ll get on the site and vote, for the simple fact that condi excels against other builds that Zerk Meds have trouble with. That in itself is worth a higher grade.

EDITED
Oh and try playing with geomancy + torment sigs. It does more damage in groups as apposed to a single condi condition; doom or Earth.

Condi thief freekills condi engis while zerker thief is pretty much countered by them. Does that mean condi thief is viable now?

Are you saying condi Engi’s are viable? Curious because you used it as an example. If they are then so are condi guards (62600 sw/t sc/f) since there both technically play the same roles in conquest.

You’re right about torment I miss read the toolbar >.<
My mistake!

condi engi’s have been meta since, ever?
just because of this comment i assume you play hotjoin or maby unranked. playing a build that does well in hotjoin doesnt make it meta, or even close to meta. and yes. i have played this build the day after april 2014, after the 33% burn buff. i have played and tested every single possible hybrid build(bullet can approve this, he hates my whispers:D). none of the hybrid builds work as solid as zerg with 4 in virtues.
even if my favorite build is 2/6/6 full zerg dps which i love to 1 shot ppl with, you cant a good sustain build.
so i think it would be nice if ppl would say at which level they play their builds, so it will prevent these useless discussions about proving whos right or wrong.

The question was rhetorical. My point was that if condi engi’s are viable, then so are condi guards. Specifically my build, in a previous thread.

As for experiences I’ve played in king of the hill against top players and continuously duel. I’ve beaten players whove won esl tournaments.
That’s just the 1v1 aspect if it.

As for conquest, I only play tpvp/spvp. My issues are the same for any condi roamer-type class.

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds.

There is no way a medicondi guardian can match up against the survival condi ranger. In both condition output and sustain it is superior in every way. Entangle alone puts it on another level. I don’t know how you can mix up it up with a top tier instead of putting it where it belongs with condi mesmers and eles like Keksmuffin mentioned earlier.

Shanks.2907:

Saiyan.1704:

I think these type builds should be in the same league as condi engi, ranger, and other similar builds.

There is no way a medicondi guardian can match up against the survival condi ranger. In both condition output and sustain it is superior in every way. Entangle alone puts it on another level. I don’t know how you can mix up it up with a top tier instead of putting it where it belongs with condi mesmers and eles like Keksmuffin mentioned earlier.

I don’t see many of these, condi-surviving rangers in 4v4/5v5 type zerg scenarios. They are usually point defenders or roamers. Same for condi engi’s and thieves. They all usually sit on point waiting for a 1v1 or 2v2 to happen (low tier tpvp).
High tier, everyone’s celestials. That’s a different topic all together and isn’t considered condition builds.

I’m not saying condi builds are top tier “Meta” builds.. or even close to the top tier “Meta” list on metabattle. That goes into the realm of Celestial builds. I’m saying it sure is a lot better than warrior, thief, and other mediocre builds listed under “Good” condition/hybrid builds on metabattle.

there is no way you will beat a good shout warrior with ur hybrid build. and with good i mean a warrior which knows how to fear a guards shelter.

and you also cant compare a condi engi to a condi guard. the engi heal + shields make engi already stronger then any gaurd build.

im not saying the build is bad. im just saying you cant say the gaurd build whitout any sustain is as good as any of the other hybrid builds. A good engi will run offpoint, stall for 10 sec and come back full hp where you as a gaurd cant do kitten. as in: you cant keep up with him, you cant outheal him, whitout cooldowns you cant reset the fight and will end up losing. same goes with shout warriors which can escape fights very easy and have a kittenton of cleanses.

reading the posts above finally i love this discussion as it real one with great opinions

i give mine
i played this build before the 33% patch and after
i play mainly tpvp (even when my group hate it)
at first i played it like medzerk – totally mistake and achieved nothing

then i started to play it like engi/necro condi build.
i usualy take home and guard it as if the enemy send 1 on me its usually a thief or engi
i can hold the point better and longer as the engi need to back off and heal. he might outheal me but i got better blocks then he has (super pros which forgotten above)

another pros is that ppl constantly say that condition get cleanse. yes for the poor engi or necro it is , but guard can imminently proc them again which gives huge advantage if the enemy DD cele ele constantly staying on water and swap it for the cleanse and use all his utilities to stay alive (same to the engi).
i dont think there is a class who can put constant aoe pressure with conditions

now regarding conditions dmg on average:

engi – 4 stacks of bleed, burning (every 10 sec) poison, 3 confusion, and 1-2 cover conditions – total dmg mainly single target 1200 dps for 4-5 sec then it drops down to 800 dps. while direct dmg is low

necro – 5-8 bleed stacks, poison, burning (every 10 sec single target), fear – total dmg is 1000-1500 dmg dps which is constant and some aoe and with fear it gets to 2400 for short time but a nice burst. while direct dmg is low

ranger – no so common but only single target so more 1v1 can do with bleed , poison, burning around 2400 dps and on average 2000 dps. while direct dmg is low

guard – burning almost constant and most aoe , 3 bleed stacks aoe, poison single target , direct dmg on average as the medzerk (more as sustain dps and not burst dps). so total condition dmg is 1000-1200 while direct dmg dps is 1000 dps so the actual dps is 2000 dps and mostly aoe . cover conditions are mainly vulnerability and blind which boost your team dps on the target

now who is better
1v1 – ranger or necro but they cant hold a point , so engi or guard can hold it better.

group fight – necro, ranger are more 1v1 and single target burst while cant fight inside the point while engi can do more aoe pressure which is more harassing one then bursting one and guard can stay longer on point doing great aoe pressure

is the guard fit to the meta comp?
atm is hard to tell yes. but also the necro/ ranger and condi engi are not. i can say in lower lvl tpvp this build do great even in 1v2 till help comes . also this build great against the meta cele as it push the enemy to cleanse early or withdraw the point
thus this build bring both conditions (which in the meta comp is lacking and direct dmg)

also regarding medzerk – you dont see many of them as their burst easily seen from miles and thief or mesmer do it better.

i say if group take medzerk they should consider taking hybrid. with aoe pressure both from direct dmg and conditions you dont need much vigor or protection as your enemy will dodge and not you. down side you wont be able to burst the down enemy to death asap as the medzerk.

also combin the hybrid with any other class or build and they both can do wonder in any 2v2 situation on mid as again bunker guard or ele wont be able to do dmg and constantly cleanse while your teammate will do the burst dmg or you will do it while your mate protect you.

i know if you put me agasint higher lvl team i will lose as i dont have much experience and time to invest.
but in 1 fight i saw the enemy guard doing 900 burning dmg and direct dmg was around 1k so he manage to down in 3v3 2 of use after few short seconds till help came. no other class can do it better almost 2k dps constantly (and he had bunker guard who cleanse us and we had cleanse – the just get used and left us with nothing for 10 sec).

as for now this build got 3.44 points which put it on trash and there is no way it can get 3.75
:(

SilkySmooth.1574:

there is no way you will beat a good shout warrior with ur hybrid build. and with good i mean a warrior which knows how to fear a guards shelter.

and you also cant compare a condi engi to a condi guard. the engi heal + shields make engi already stronger then any gaurd build.

im not saying the build is bad. im just saying you cant say the gaurd build whitout any sustain is as good as any of the other hybrid builds. A good engi will run offpoint, stall for 10 sec and come back full hp where you as a gaurd cant do kitten. as in: you cant keep up with him, you cant outheal him, whitout cooldowns you cant reset the fight and will end up losing. same goes with shout warriors which can escape fights very easy and have a kittenton of cleanses.

Other warrior specs have beaten me but Not shout warriors… Point me to these shout warriors you think are good in 1v1 and I’ll duel them..

Even if this was a conquest scenario…. you’re saying shout warriors and engis can run away, stall for 10s then come back? This is completely unrealistic.

Good warriors peel away because they’ve been beaten, and return to mid or far or where ever people need help. That’s almost the same for any class who peels away. Who runs away from a point, waits 10s, then return on point to do it over again?