Guild Wars 2

revenants are a better version of medi guard .
a waaaaay better version .
also it feels more supportive then a guard thx to glint .

ah screw this. so only i feel like revenant is better in almost everything ? almost

just my opinion and how i feel after fully unlocked it and played it for days in every single gamemode.

Core guard feels outdated !

Maybe you should go play a Revenant then. Maybe it’ll keep you from making useless posts.

Yeah I find it amusing when I play my Medi Guard and people die to me, really the old specs are still Viable just takes knowing how to play, only ones that gave me some issues are reapers but it’s more of an annoyance.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Maybe you should go play a Revenant then. Maybe it’ll keep you from making useless posts.

thats what im doing core guard is just meh now.

and yeah keep up these comments and you never gonna see improvement to your spec even though its in a lame state.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Yeah I find it amusing when I play my Medi Guard and people die to me, really the old specs are still Viable just takes knowing how to play, only ones that gave me some issues are reapers but it’s more of an annoyance.

im not talking abbout viable or not viable its just Outdated and annoying to play after playing an elite spec.

It’s mostly you.

1. Core guardian has a few trait issues which make some lines very lackluster or weak.
2. Most elite specs are significantly overpowered and will be toned down with time.

DH is overall better than rev/herald so whatever

Exedore.6320:

It’s mostly you.

1. Core guardian has a few trait issues which make some lines very lackluster or weak.
2. Most elite specs are significantly overpowered and will be toned down with time.

I wouldn’t say its just a few trait issues.

The entire zeal line should be reshuffled with minors being merged into majors & several of the majors that are obviously superior to everything else should be made into the minors so options exist for builds.

There are also various traits across most of the lines that either discourage use of virtues to where you never want to use them or make you want to use them every CD.
(said traits should be merged to make both options viable similar to how warrior adrenaline traits were changed)

There are also several traits that feel like they are in the wrong tree.
A few traits that no matter how much they are buffed will never be viable choices (radiant retaliation anyone ?)

Then there are numerous consecrations, signets & spirit weapons that need an overhaul if they are ever going to be used seriously vs other choices.

Last but not least don’t forget the glaring issues with the sword auto attack, zealots defense, the scepter auto attack & the fact that hammer/mace constantly override other combo fields with craptastic light fields.

Azure.8670:

DH is overall better than rev/herald so whatever

depends how you look at it.

Rev/Herald does better range damage & can out range burst the guardian.

Rev/Herald can also keep up fury & might stacks on a group much better then a guardian can.

Rev/Herald can also keep up regeneration on a group better then a guardian can without overriding fields with light fields.

Rev in ventari stance can also heal as good as or possibly better then a guardian can & from the looks of it block projectiles with a very high uptime.

Rev can also pump out some very nasty condition damage if you build for it

The only thing a rev cannot do like or better then a guardian is the following

1: AEGIS application (if all the bosses have pulsing damage like the first raid boss did however this will be useless)

2: Group stability

3: Group retaliation.

I disagree, core guardian still going strong, dragon hunter just added more build variety to the guardian. Guardian is probably those few professions who’s core builds still remain strong. Burn guardian still going strong, medi guardians builds are still a threat to deal with, bunker guardian seems like they are doing okay maybe not as the others but still able manage the new HoT era. Guardian has more build diversity now. Almost every revenant is running herald.

tico.9814:

I disagree, core guardian still going strong, dragon hunter just added more build variety to the guardian. Guardian is probably those few professions who’s core builds still remain strong. Burn guardian still going strong, medi guardians builds are still a threat to deal with, bunker guardian seems like they are doing okay maybe not as the others but still able manage the new HoT era. Guardian has more build diversity now. Almost every revenant is running herald.

Agreed, core Guardian still have his place. DH brings us different play style and more build versatility.

I have played Herald in the beta and I am getting the heroes points for my Revenant so I cant say a lot about it now, but on the beta when I saw all those continuos boons I said “holy crap this is OP support”, still have to play it to get any final conclusion.

Its not outdated imo. The issue is that there are to many things that never have worked properly.

if they fix signets, spirit weapons and to some extent virtues (CD, passive effect contra active effect) and consecrations (CD in particular) and balance survivability between traitlines (or innate) we will see more build diversity. This would make it a lot more “up to date”.

So no, its not outdated, its just to much stuff that is unused due to poor design.

One line I would like to see fixed is spirtual weapons, I like the concept but they really never worked… I can not understand why Necro can have minions that lasts until killed and even heal out of combat and our weapons have a limited time of existence… for me they should be treated just the same.

Well…. of all the characters that I play currently (no warrior or ele) I have to say it has the least exciting traits of all. But it gets the job done, I suppose. The weapons are cool though!

Keep in mind my opinion is strictly from a pve pov. Core guardian is certainly less flashy than DH and after playing for so long a bit boring. But in no way is it not playable.

After HoT came out like most Guardian players I started playing as DH, however I don’t like bow personally. But yesterday I specced myself back to the core build (valor, honor, radiance; valkyrie armor and mixed trinkets; berserker weapons and defender runes) and guess what, i was able to solo 3 Hero Point champs. SOLO , and I am a CASUAL player, pretty far from being elite. It is not doable FOR ME to achieve this while playing DH.

Outdated? Maybe. Useless? Hell no!!

Revenants can literally AFK and spam me with neverending pulses of Fury, Swiftness and Might, wonder what their performance is when they actually push buttons

PvE: not too sure, haven’t seen many revs in fractals, and even when theyre there, I don’t notice much of a change. My guard is still quite viable, though I don’t have character spaces to roll my rev yet…. But, I really don’t see them bringing much “new” stuff to standard pve.

PvP: I still love my guard here, I run a relatively standard medi build, using GS/Ham. Ive pvped against a number of elite specs, and while some definitely overpower me, I think I just need to learn the new mechanics of the various new skills. I did just finish a pvp match, where I won a 1v2 against a scrapper n daredevil. Scrapper came back after, n I knocked him off the edge of skyhammer lol…. granted neither of them were particularly good.

WvW: frontline is still gonna be held up by guards. We have too many things we can do for the frontline, whether as an “old” build, or as a DH. The new specs can roll in front as well, but they still need the guards there.

Exedore.6320:

1. Most elite specs are significantly overpowered and will be toned down with time.

- Renewed focus: that has quite a cooldown even with trait, a 3 second invulnerability where you can’t stomp and if you accidentaly use dodge, it breaks and goes on full cooldown without refreshing virtues.

- Signet of Courage: mild heal every 10 or 8 seconds and a “please interrupt me” length of cast time for full healing (plus you can’t move or you break it) and also a really long cooldown even with trait

- Feel my wrath: 5 seconds of quickness a bunch of fury and condi cleanse if traited, kind of nice but it got longer cooldown because everyone said that such frequent 5 seconds of quickness on demand is too tough to handle.

- Dragon maw: guards have animation for that, it’s not instantly placed. Got longer cooldown (which is kind of understandable). It’s the easiest trap to dodge, if you have reflexes of a sloth then too bad. It’s easy to spot the teeth coming out of the ground before the maw shuts so dodge that before it closes, nuff said. Lag or low frame rate is not an excuse, it happens to all of us. It’s only hard to dodge it, if there is a thick fight and lots of AoE’s laying around.

These elites are OP ?
I can’t even…

Anyway, this is why I made a thread about hammer which is a quite forgotten weapon in our armory. We really feel outdated while comparing all these fancy passives and background boons/conditions that other classes do.
And just as Vikkela attached, revs just gotta stand there and look mean to win

@Rodzynald: Exedore said “elite specs” not elite skills. Referring to DH, Reaper, Scrapper, etc.

Zoltreez.6435:

revenants are a better version of medi guard .
a waaaaay better version .
also it feels more supportive then a guard thx to glint .

ah screw this. so only i feel like revenant is better in almost everything ? almost

just my opinion and how i feel after fully unlocked it and played it for days in every single gamemode.

Core guard feels outdated !

Core guardian has never received any significant changes for a long time now. even with the Summer trait changes the only good thing it received was the merge of the meditations traits.

It took them 3 years to simply fix shield

What do you expect?

Signets are still crap. Spirit weapons have been crap for the last 2 and something years now.

And you have people like Ghotistyx.6942 claiming guardians are fine. Frankly i have no idea if anyone bothers reading his comments anymore because its always “X is fine, guardian is in a good spot”

In my opinion, before you can change the class, you gotta bring everyone on the same mindset

Indure.5410:

@Rodzynald: Exedore said “elite specs” not elite skills. Referring to DH, Reaper, Scrapper, etc.

Oh my… I am a dummy

I don’t know if you should bash the Rev just because they have a heavy boon focus if they spec Glint. They don’t have Aegis, they have less gameplay-involved defense, and it’s more about providing protection, regen and blinds if so. And they can’t spec into everything at once. but they’re versatile for sure. Which i also feel a Guardian is, just it’s different. For instance Guardian is definitely better at providing heals in an off-role manner, you have to go Ventari and nerf everything else as a Rev (except a minor heal on staff and an ok one on shield), since your predefined utility is changed.

Anyway my point is that I wouldn’t blame revenant for stealing Guardian thunder, I think if so there is more changes within guardian that could be done.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

I don’t know if you should bash the Rev just because they have a heavy boon focus if they spec Glint. They don’t have Aegis, they have less gameplay-involved defense, and it’s more about providing protection, regen and blinds if so. And they can’t spec into everything at once. but they’re versatile for sure. Which i also feel a Guardian is, just it’s different. For instance Guardian is definitely better at providing heals in an off-role manner, you have to go Ventari and nerf everything else as a Rev (except a minor heal on staff and an ok one on shield), since your predefined utility is changed.

Anyway my point is that I wouldn’t blame revenant for stealing Guardian thunder, I think if so there is more changes within guardian that could be done.

Which is what we have been saying…well some of us anyways.

Some guardian mechanics need to be updated. or at least some traits/abilities.

We have been screaming our lungs out to change signets and spirit weapons, but nop

I dare not imagine they might update core F1-F3 skills to make em worth using if not specced in virtues

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Snip.

Assuming the DH is left well enough alone, these are the changes this community really needs to be harping for!

With the exception of Amplified Zeal for Burning builds, Radiance GM traits are a joke. Many need recategorizing. Like you said; half the signets, all the spirit weapons, and half the consecrations are less than viable- they’re entirely useless. The Scepter auto and light fields have been a detriment since launch.

We’re not asking for optimal, top tier changes. We’re talking basic, baseline functionality so that we can take these traits/skills/weps and not have them be detrimental.

And the suggestions Rev is ‘better’? There’s a myriad of awesome things about the Guard. We can go burning. We can now do range + CC. We can build bunker. We can be mobile medi burst. Our versatility has never been better. DH has turned around to be a large success among the Guardian community. I’m all too happy to admit I was wrong about the Spec.

Let’s keep the ball rolling, Karl and Co. Go back and fine tune those above problems, and the Guardian will really be in “a good spot” for a good long time.

It is not you. The core guardian is simply a non factor, irrelevant, gone.

Its obvious Guardian was the first and beta class they made, and they’ve evolved with their ideas since then. Unless they went back and changed guardian completely, there is no point in trying to salvage it.

Hence why other things can fufill its role better and why they wanted a new play style for guardian by going DH.

Core Guardian is still the only profession that lacks any real “strong” passives attached. What I mean by this, there’s no protection on CC, massive healing or anything to be considered “cheese” outside of maybe Smiter’s Boon.

I’m actually ok with this but if you’re going to give a profession more engaging traits(which guardian also lacks), they need to be stronger than their easier counterparts.

Dragonhunter virtues are a straight-up +1 to Guardian virtues. The only downside being DH traits that make no sense with all our melee weapons… Which is a big thing on Guardian.

Even if it’s not the case, it sure feels like vanilla guard got back-burnered.

Brutaly.6257:

Its not outdated imo. The issue is that there are to many things that never have worked properly.

if they fix signets, spirit weapons and to some extent virtues (CD, passive effect contra active effect) and consecrations (CD in particular) and balance survivability between traitlines (or innate) we will see more build diversity. This would make it a lot more “up to date”.

So no, its not outdated, its just to much stuff that is unused due to poor design.

As I said above its this ^

what does work (mainly meditations & to a lesser extent shouts) works well.

The other stuff is just well…. crap.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Azure.8670:

DH is overall better than rev/herald so whatever

depends how you look at it.

Rev/Herald does better range damage & can out range burst the guardian.

Rev/Herald can also keep up fury & might stacks on a group much better then a guardian can.

Rev/Herald can also keep up regeneration on a group better then a guardian can without overriding fields with light fields.

Rev in ventari stance can also heal as good as or possibly better then a guardian can & from the looks of it block projectiles with a very high uptime.

Rev can also pump out some very nasty condition damage if you build for it

The only thing a rev cannot do like or better then a guardian is the following

1: AEGIS application (if all the bosses have pulsing damage like the first raid boss did however this will be useless)

2: Group stability

3: Group retaliation.

I disagree with bursting. Rev has higher sustained damage, but guard will outburst any day of the week. Also when it comes to range, rev dps is HIGHER, but I think DH is better.

But, I love them both so

The virtues without being traited are pretty bad for the core Guard tbh.

An aegis every 40 seconds or an aegis you can activate for your group but on a 75 second cooldown. Lol ok, 40 second refresh? 75 second cooldown?

A group heal but on a 50 second timer, again a bit meh because of the timer.

And burns that are pretty irrelevant unless you are investing in condis. In fact you can pretty much ignore the F1 exists unless you have it traited in some way or are condi focused(even then arguable if its better off just leaving it up).

Vikkela.7261:

Revenants can literally AFK and spam me with neverending pulses of Fury, Swiftness and Might, wonder what their performance is when they actually push buttons

Not much better if they are running that many facets. Those things require energy and so do attacks. Trying to do both at once just runs the rev out of energy and the facets de-toggle.

OP, it’s you, not the class. The performance of the core Guardian has not changed.

Core guard is the best counter to DH. Outside that, however, it is outperformed heavily by the elite spec.