Guild Wars 2

Lack of WvW battle skills

We all know WvW is all about range attacks and melee is kind of hard to deal with, considering this, even though it has been discussed how to make guardian better in wvw, let’s just put them under this topic, here is my suggestions
1. Scepter can slightly hit more
2. Scepter can fire orbs faster instead of more DMG
3. More shield abilities?
4. Being able to teleport on walls and knock ppl down with hammer
5. A spirit bow that we can use for few seconds in utility skills

What do you do on WvW and what r or suggestions?

How to make Guardians better in WvW? Not sure. There are many ways this could be done. Simply giving them access to a proper ranged weapon would be a start. I’d love to get Warhorns on Guardians; it seems to fit, and could have a ranged attack and AOE respectively worked in. Like the Torch but with greater range, less damage and likely a different if any Condition.

That said. I can see how to make Guardians viable in WvW: Reward buffing. Quite simply. Granted, this wouldn’t fix all the issues, but it would give everyone a boost who doesn’t just spam ranged AOEs so it should be relatively unresisted. I have no qualms about supporting my Guildmates in WvW (and really, they need it). But it’s pretty thankless work since only kills yield direct rewards.

Actually, when I play my Guardian in any WvW situation, I feel like one of the most powerful contributors. The heal on Staff hits everyone within range, I’m not sure what the buff limit on Virtues is but I’m pretty sure Resolve heals everyone within range. The blockade you set up with Staff can literally hold an army off from crossing a bridge, and Wall of Reflection is downright ridiculous when placed against a firing line or a gate you’re defending.

I mean we get shouts, Purifying Flames, Tomes (both Courage and Wrath are more well suited for WvW than any other area in the game, you can firebomb the entire enemy cluster within range of the reticule or heal huge amounts of your own side.)

Not every weapon is going to be useful, but I even got a lot of use out of Scepter/Torch for harassing enemies on top of gates and catching runners with the immobilize. As an added bonus, the torch’s flame breathing ability can go through both your own gates and the enemy’s to hit whoever’s on the other side. Staff and Scepter / Torch or Sword / Torch make me capable for both small scale skirmshes and pursuits and line to line combat.

If you want to see a class that probably needs help in WvW, I imagine Thief is much worse off.

Wall of reflection is wonderful to use in WvW

Pretty much how I play my Guardian in WvW. Shouts and Consecrations are really useful for keeping your people alive. However, the current game setup doesn’t reward this. You get more out of spamming AOEs into a group of enemies in the short run (the scope of a single skirmish).

Doesn’t this feel wrong? I realize it would be impossible to measure some tactical uses such as the locking down of bottlenecks you mention. But damage prevented via Absorption, Blocking or Reflection should be measurable for example, or Healing of others.

like many have said shouts, consecrations are pretty useful! your teammates won’t even know you’re helping them, but in the end, team effort no? haha working on being that nameless hero.

it does seem you contribute only be dealing damage and as a guardian, who can really excel in support, seems to not benefit as much from this.

that being said, wall of reflection, coupled with purging flames scepter/torch combos and or tome of wrath can deal a significant amount of dmg as well.

Tarhana.3561:

We all know WvW is all about range attacks and melee is kind of hard to deal with,

Well … no it isn’t, especially with guardian.

I play a 100% melee support build (no ranged skill). It is one of the only class able to provide good support in the melee while being able to survive (of course you need to stack vitality a bit).

With this WvW build i can also 1v3 pretty much easily when it’s needed. Maybe you should consider melee a bit because guardian really powerful in melee.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUEQNAR5elcgyCHFSGEm4ERVh9h9QjeEjXPo4ElIA;T8AA1ytEaJ1StlSLqbM3Iuxej7G5NrNGbs3A

Just try

I do have a great sword but attacking melee Is really risky where u can lose the track of your players for a second and you r an open target in few seconds, obviously you can play with melee but compare to a thief or ranger what are our chances to get items and Kills

Schakal.6091:

That said. I can see how to make Guardians viable in WvW: Reward buffing. Quite simply. Granted, this wouldn’t fix all the issues, but it would give everyone a boost who doesn’t just spam ranged AOEs so it should be relatively unresisted. I have no qualms about supporting my Guildmates in WvW (and really, they need it). But it’s pretty thankless work since only kills yield direct rewards.

Totally agree. I hope some GM/Anet team member can confirm at least they thinking about it…

Melee in WvWvW required a completely different mindset than ranged. You have to be very aware of your surroundings and the enemy forces. You should try and flank and pick of the weakened players. You need to find a path through the AoE-spam and push forward, fully booned-up. It’s hard and thankless, but it can be fun.
Also, minor objectives like Supply Camps are pretty fun as melee.

As others have said, I do think there should be some reward for supporting. I understand it’s Arenanet’s philosophy that offense should win out, but that doesn’t mean support can’t be rewarded. As a Guardian I like to fall back and support with my Staff/Shouts in sieges, but my dislike of the Scepter makes me rather useless outside of buffing, which won’t even net Silver contribution.

That being said, most, if not all, of our issues in WvWvW stem from our lacking ranged options.

Tarhana.3561:

Lack of WvW battle skills

We all know WvW is all about range attacks and melee is kind of hard to deal with, considering this, even though it has been discussed how to make guardian better in wvw, let’s just put them under this topic, here is my suggestions
1. Scepter can slightly hit more
2. Scepter can fire orbs faster instead of more DMG
3. More shield abilities?
4. Being able to teleport on walls and knock ppl down with hammer
5. A spirit bow that we can use for few seconds in utility skills

What do you do on WvW and what r or suggestions?

Disagree on all accounts. Guardians are perfectly capable in WvW, and there are a number of playstyles to replicate this. You can both range and melee in WvW either in large-scale combat or smaller groups. It’s about learning how to do it effectively.

I’m releasing a video tonight (which I’ll post on the forums) which will give some hints and tips on playstyles for WvW, and I’ll talk about my personal WvW playstyle which has worked for me.

If there’s anything you’d like to particularly see then drop a message before tonight and I’ll edit it in.

Currently I’m covering traits, skills, scepter and mace-play, small group capping, large scale skirmishes, keep offence and defence.

I am looking forward to see your video, and since the game does not reward absorbation and giving buffs to team members, your chances to get rewards from WvW is less than a good ranged class, my arguement wont change.

I do really enjoy playing my Guardian but rewards and XP wise, we are not getting the full benefits, thats my argument, not that we suck.

i’ve been pretty disappointed in the viability of guardians in WvW. we certainly are not cut out to be any kind of ‘guardian’ (ie. tank). it’s becoming frustrating.

as a guardian i expected to be able tank… well something. this isn’t the case. i’m consistently be taken down in 2-3 hits from dps classes. (7k-10k in a single hit).

if anyone has a build that can actually tank these insane dps classes i’d love to see it, as sadly it seems more and more that you simply MUST go with an aggressive dps build and hope to burn them down before they burn you down. i’ve tried retaliation builds/meditation builds, and it’s just not working.

whiskyjack.7962:

as a guardian i expected to be able tank… well something. this isn’t the case. i’m consistently be taken down in 2-3 hits from dps classes. (7k-10k in a single hit).

L2P issue here, you have dodge/roll/aegis to avoid taking damage and you have then regen/protection/heal when you can’t avoid damage.

Look at the build i posted as i am truly able to tank in WvW and i always stay in the melee. I honestly feel almost unkillable in WvW, there no way i can lose a 1v1 (i don’t necessarily win all them but opponent just give up).

As for reward i have not noticed any issue with it, as said above i am in the melee applying boons and healing so i am always able to hit opponents before they die. Boon/Support rewarding system would be nice though.

There are some issues with guardian but survivability is definitely not one of them.

L2P issue here, you have dodge/roll/aegis to avoid taking damage and you have then regen/protection/heal when you can’t avoid damage.

Look at the build i posted as i am truly able to tank in WvW and i always stay in the melee. I honestly feel almost unkillable in WvW, there no way i can lose a 1v1 (i don’t necessarily win all them but opponent just give up).
…
There are some issues with guardian but survivability is definitely not one of them.

aegis will save you from a single hit, if it’s a multiple hit ability, it mitigates very little. dodging is fine, but you can’t dodge everything due to endurance. a lot of this damage is from thieves mind you, whom attack invisible, so none of the above applies at all.

perhaps these guys way out gear me, or the guys you’re fighting are a lower level than you. i’ll try your build and post back.

Condition damage ignores armor, so make sure you are stack Vitality.

The build I use centers on Shouts and Altruistic healing. I use Staff/Mace & Shield. I am almost constantly healing myself as I give out boons, turn conditions into boons on allies, throwing Aegis around, etc. The more allies I have around, the better I am able to keep myself up. My guildmates believe I am somewhat unkillable. I have NO vitality stats. I rely on Toughness as I can remove conditions fairly easily. I only have about 17k health and it fluctuates a great deal in a battle, but almost everything I do, including dodging, heals me as I make my allies that much better and keep them alive.

I’m just not seeing the problems being described here. Of course, by myself I’m pretty useless, and I can’t really kill anything, but that is not what my build is for.

Zelden.6143:

Tarhana.3561:

Lack of WvW battle skills

We all know WvW is all about range attacks and melee is kind of hard to deal with, considering this, even though it has been discussed how to make guardian better in wvw, let’s just put them under this topic, here is my suggestions
1. Scepter can slightly hit more
2. Scepter can fire orbs faster instead of more DMG
3. More shield abilities?
4. Being able to teleport on walls and knock ppl down with hammer
5. A spirit bow that we can use for few seconds in utility skills

What do you do on WvW and what r or suggestions?

Disagree on all accounts. Guardians are perfectly capable in WvW, and there are a number of playstyles to replicate this. You can both range and melee in WvW either in large-scale combat or smaller groups. It’s about learning how to do it effectively.

I’m releasing a video tonight (which I’ll post on the forums) which will give some hints and tips on playstyles for WvW, and I’ll talk about my personal WvW playstyle which has worked for me.

If there’s anything you’d like to particularly see then drop a message before tonight and I’ll edit it in.

Currently I’m covering traits, skills, scepter and mace-play, small group capping, large scale skirmishes, keep offence and defence.

Post the video link to this topic too, pls.

username.4932:

With this WvW build i can also 1v3 pretty much easily when it’s needed. Maybe you should consider melee a bit because guardian really powerful in melee.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUEQNAR5elcgyCHFSGEm4ERVh9h9QjeEjXPo4ElIA;T8AA1ytEaJ1StlSLqbM3Iuxej7G5NrNGbs3A

Just try

i tried out this build for a few hours, and it’s not bad. certainly aided in surviving longer. however, i found the bow pretty weak and quickly replaced it with wall of reflection, especially for siege defense.

i also had to change the mace to scepter for some ranged ability, as with massive groups of players, it’s impossible to jump in without being immediately burned down. i needed some kind of poke capability (or teammates who followed maybe…)

i can’t see going 1v3 against any competent players, but 2v1 might be possible. i think my biggest problem was trying to use the hammer, it seems greatsword/shout (for offense) or consecrations (for defense) are the way to go, at least until the incoming hammer buff.

Running sword/torch & GS (and carrying a staff for when I need it), I can honestly say that I’ve put the fear of the gods in many players on my guardian. I’ve been taking the role of initiation for larger fights, and it’s just amazing how cowardly people get when a guardian suddenly appears in the middle of the group dropping AoE swirls of death. Of course, if no one follows the charge, you do just end up looking like an idiot when 3 or 4 warriors turn around and try to eat your face.
That being said, I do think guardian is the most lacking in ranged abilities. I actively avoid defending towers because scepter damage is mediocre at best, and waiting for Tome of Wrath to recharge is boring.
I don’t know if I would actually care enough to use the scepter even if it was buffed, just because of my playstyle. I want to be on the frontline cleaving heads, but warrior and thief don’t appeal to me.

If you plop down a Line of Warding and a Wall of Reflection, you’ve incapacitated an entire army. Sure, it’s just for a few seconds, but it’s still incredibly powerful in the right locations. I figure that’s one reason why guardians’ ranged attacks are fairly weak damage-wise.

I agree I have been really useful for my build at wvw , but still I would like to get more DPs with my scepter

ThePatak.6785:

if no one follows the charge, you do just end up looking like an idiot when 3 or 4 warriors turn around and try to eat your face.

I keep trying this. My powers have much too short a duration to be able to defend effectively when the zerg turns. I can pop a few brief shielding spells but when several people shooting at you, being able to block 3 shots or bubble up for 3 seconds isn’t going to help.

ThePatak.6785:

I actively avoid defending towers because scepter damage is mediocre at best, and waiting for Tome of Wrath to recharge is boring.

This is true, but if there’s siege weaponry around, you can still do something. Maybe ask a nice engineer for a mortar?

ThePatak.6785:

I don’t know if I would actually care enough to use the scepter even if it was buffed, just because of my playstyle. I want to be on the frontline cleaving heads, but warrior and thief don’t appeal to me.

I want to do that, but I don’t think it’s a feasible way to play. I think the front line is just for idiots and the second line is where to be if you want to be clicking on “Finish Them”. Make sure there’s someone in front of you for the enemy to shoot at.

Svarty.8019:

ThePatak.6785:

if no one follows the charge, you do just end up looking like an idiot when 3 or 4 warriors turn around and try to eat your face.

I keep trying this. My powers have much too short a duration to be able to defend effectively when the zerg turns. I can pop a few brief shielding spells but when several people shooting at you, being able to block 3 shots or bubble up for 3 seconds isn’t going to help.

ThePatak.6785:

I actively avoid defending towers because scepter damage is mediocre at best, and waiting for Tome of Wrath to recharge is boring.

This is true, but if there’s siege weaponry around, you can still do something. Maybe ask a nice engineer for a mortar?

ThePatak.6785:

I don’t know if I would actually care enough to use the scepter even if it was buffed, just because of my playstyle. I want to be on the frontline cleaving heads, but warrior and thief don’t appeal to me.

I want to do that, but I don’t think it’s a feasible way to play. I think the front line is just for idiots and the second line is where to be if you want to be clicking on “Finish Them”. Make sure there’s someone in front of you for the enemy to shoot at.

Why should the Guardian be the only class in this game to have to beg other engineers for mortars or buy siege weapons only to be viable in ranged combat and have something fun to do when defending towers/keeps?

Don’t you find it odd when people are actively avoiding an important and fun part of the game just because their class has no purpose there and they have no fun feeling lackluster and useless? This needs to be fixed asap!

It’s unfortunate that supporting really does not give you any rewards.
I think the entire reward system in WvW needs some work but giving guardians a proper ranged weapon would help meanwhile.
Yeah , you can go melee but personally i enjoy large scale battles more – and charging into the enemy zerg will get you killed real fast.
Besides, when defending something, melee is not really an option either so we’re left with plinking away at the enemy with our little scepter – not very satisfying.

Solutions:
- Make scepter autoattack = scepter attack on ele/necro or rifle on warrior
- Give guardian the hp of a ranger (they have 50% more of us, lol, and we have no pet)
- Give reward for buffing people.

Schakal.6091:

How to make Guardians better in WvW? Not sure. There are many ways this could be done. Simply giving them access to a proper ranged weapon would be a start. I’d love to get Warhorns on Guardians; it seems to fit, and could have a ranged attack and AOE respectively worked in. Like the Torch but with greater range, less damage and likely a different if any Condition.

That said. I can see how to make Guardians viable in WvW: Reward buffing. Quite simply. Granted, this wouldn’t fix all the issues, but it would give everyone a boost who doesn’t just spam ranged AOEs so it should be relatively unresisted. I have no qualms about supporting my Guildmates in WvW (and really, they need it). But it’s pretty thankless work since only kills yield direct rewards.

No. Buffing/healing is fine the way it is. I like the fact there aren’t any pure healers in this game and it should stay like that because that’s what makes this game unique and not one of the generic WoW clones, that failed so miserably.

I know some of you folks would love a profession that hangs back and heals/buffs but this isn’t WoW. They don’t need to change the way they reward people, they need to give the Guardian a long range weapon that s actually fun to use and viable, like the Warrior’s rifle or the Thief’s shortbow. It sucks being the only profession with no viable/reliable ranged weapon. This is a glaring issue not just in pvp, but in pve as well. Scepter and staff are lackluster and no fun to use…like at all!

Being the only profession with no reliable ranged weapon is a huge design flaw imho and the devs should seriously consider giving Guardians some real ranged weapons.

Whoah. You’re making a huge leap from ‘reward support’ to ‘people want to play pure healers’. If I want dead weight I can tie a rock to my leg. Gladly it’s factually impossible to play that kind of parasite in this game.

But the fact of the matter in WvW is this: Guardians and some other classes possess wide-ranging tools for damage mitigation. Well-timed and placed support can and does decide battles more than killing one guy. It just seems counter-intuitive that I get rewarded for firing my Staff into the fray a few more times but not for prevent tens of thousands of damage with a well-placed Sanctuary or so. Not making use of these tools would be, well, stupid.

As it is right now, WvW rewards stupid behaviour.

shedim.8504:

Why should the Guardian be the only class in this game to have to beg other engineers for mortars or buy siege weapons only to be viable in ranged combat and have something fun to do when defending towers/keeps?

Don’t you find it odd when people are actively avoiding an important and fun part of the game just because their class has no purpose there and they have no fun feeling lackluster and useless? This needs to be fixed asap!

For you, for all of us:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions