more than a year in...
Think of the passive as a mechanism to counter surprise attack or unwanted agro and the active a pre-emptive defence for you whole group against heavy burst or control.
While I agree the passive is a little lack-lustre, the active when traited is pretty strong, able to give aegis, 3 secs of stability and retaliation and 5 secs of protection to 5 allies on a 30 second cooldown ( with a little AH healing sweetener for yourself if you use it ) or an additional group wide stun break if you go with Shielded Mind.
This is pretty huge for your team if timed correctly, and can make or break a skirmish, especially when coupled with Renewed Focus in a pinch.
(edited by Tarsius.3170)
Because it can be traited for group stability and stun breaker.
Guardian WvW Guide!
Heavens Rage
Heavens Rage
It is a group-wide block.
Luminifera ~ Guardian – Trisha Blackhands ~ Thief – Hua Yue ~ Elementalist.
and I still don’t understand why the Virtue of Courage’s Aegis is on a 40 second cooldown. It’s a block….a single, solitary block…and it’s on a 40 second cooldown. A warrior with a shield has a 3 second block on a 30 second cooldown and a guardian with a focus has a 3-block skill on a 45 second cooldown. Yet Virtue of Courage grants a single block once ever 40 seconds. And you can’t even choose when it procs. I don’t get it.
That single block for you and nearby players easily means the difference between success and a wipe.
That single block for you and nearby players easily means the difference between success and a wipe.
It is a group-wide block.
I thought it was pretty clear I was discussing the passive effect, but I’ll reiterate that point in case it wasn’t. The passive effect of Virtue of Courage provides a single self-block once every 40 seconds. That seems to me to be a long cooldown for a single block; especially considering the timing of the block is uncontrollable (meaning it might very well be wasted on an auto-attack or other similarly weak attack).
I’m not all that versed on other professions but is there anything else that other professions have that compare to Active or passive VoC? 40 seconds for a passive block might seem a long time but you need to put that into context if you’re going to claim it should be better.
That single block for you and nearby players easily means the difference between success and a wipe.
It is a group-wide block.
I thought it was pretty clear I was discussing the passive effect, but I’ll reiterate that point in case it wasn’t. The passive effect of Virtue of Courage provides a single self-block once every 40 seconds. That seems to me to be a long cooldown for a single block; especially considering the timing of the block is uncontrollable (meaning it might very well be wasted on an auto-attack or other similarly weak attack).
A block for yourself could still mean the difference between being downed or not. A lot of end game bosses have 1 shot attacks.
It also means the difference between being backstabbed for 12k damage from a thief in stealth or blocking that attack completely.
(edited by DeathPanel.8362)
That single block for you and nearby players easily means the difference between success and a wipe.
It is a group-wide block.
I thought it was pretty clear I was discussing the passive effect, but I’ll reiterate that point in case it wasn’t. The passive effect of Virtue of Courage provides a single self-block once every 40 seconds. That seems to me to be a long cooldown for a single block; especially considering the timing of the block is uncontrollable (meaning it might very well be wasted on an auto-attack or other similarly weak attack).
But you compared it with a weapon skill with a fairly high CD, we don’t have to give anything up to make use of the passive effect, and its fairly obvious that virtues are meant to be activated, the only virtue that is worth to left untouched is resolve, and yet again you’ll activate it from time to time to save yourself or someone else from dying. To be honest i have no idea why so many players let their virtues untouched, both in PvE and PvP.
Luminifera ~ Guardian – Trisha Blackhands ~ Thief – Hua Yue ~ Elementalist.
You can significantly reduce a burst if you stagger the passive block and the active block. The next time a thief tries to burst you, pop your active block directly after the passive one triggers.
Also, virtues are tied to AH due to traitable buffs. So decreasing the cooldown would increase the healing from AH.
Warrior = easy mode
Guardian you have to actually think to use.
There is the difference.
To answer your question, I’d just say, you are being spoiled.
You probably only has one character, which is your guardian.
I have every classes lv80.
That auto aegis is unbelievably useful in a dungeon boss fight.
And you complain about CD being too long?
Warrior’s block? Though a useful skill, while he uses shield 5, he cant use any other skills while blocking.
Why not talk about your 6 skill having 2 block duration while healing? Not to mention the CD is just 30 too!
You also have 90 CD 3 secs invulnerable elite that also grants recharge of all virtue, meaning 2000 healing, 5 secs burning and 1 more aegis.
You also have focus which you can block 5 attacks while activating other skills, plus it’s instance, so you can use it even when you’re being crowd controlled.
You also got multiple skills that block projectiles for a long duration of times, which warrior totally does not has access to.
Yeah, guardian should totally have aegis that grants invincible for 90 secs right?
See who’s spoiled.
It used to block 1 in 5 attacks in beta. This is the reason our health pool is so low.
Compared to other skills in the game it is pretty lackluster. If it was a warrior skill it would proc every time you used your 3 skill or something.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
To answer your question, I’d just say, you are being spoiled.
How so?
You probably only has one character, which is your guardian.
I have five level 80 characters.
I have every classes lv80.
Congratulations.
That auto aegis is unbelievably useful in a dungeon boss fight.
Unbelievable? Or mildly useful?
And you complain about CD being too long?
Did I complain? Or did I question its cooldown?
Warrior’s block? Though a useful skill, while he uses shield 5, he cant use any other skills while blocking.
Oh no! Whatever will he do!?
Why not talk about your 6 skill having 2 block duration while healing? Not to mention the CD is just 30 too!
Because this post is about Virtue of Courage’s passive bonus, not Shelter.
You also have 90 CD 3 secs invulnerable elite that also grants recharge of all virtue, meaning 2000 healing, 5 secs burning and 1 more aegis.
Again, this post is about Virtue of Courage, not Renewed Focus.
You also have focus which you can block 5 attacks while activating other skills, plus it’s instance, so you can use it even when you’re being crowd controlled.
Yes, I know. I said as much. Again, this post isn’t about the lack of blocking skills, it’s about Virtue of Courage’s passive effect.
You also got multiple skills that block projectiles for a long duration of times, which warrior totally does not has access to.
For the fourth time, this post is about Virtue of Courage, not warriors vs guardians.
Yeah, guardian should totally have aegis that grants invincible for 90 secs right?
Did I say anything even remotely close to that? Stop trying to put words in other peoples’ mouths.
See who’s spoiled.
Again, how does anything said in this post make me spoiled? How about you stop acting like an oversensitive child and actually address what I said, not what you perceived me to say?
A block for yourself could still mean the difference between being downed or not. A lot of end game bosses have 1 shot attacks.
I can’t imagine too many guardians are going to rely on VoC’s passive to protect them from end-game boss 1-shot attacks. If it’s, sure. But VoC’s active, or simply dodging, seem to be the much better way to avoid being 1-shot by nasty atttacks. And that’s even assuming it’s up during the 1-shot attack.
And to illustrate my point, think how many dodges we can do (even without Vigor) in the 40 seconds it takes to recharge VoC’s passive. For one block that we can’t control, 40 seconds just seems excessive. The active is great, I’m not saying it isn’t. But the passive (or its cooldown) just doesn’t seem to be on the level of the others (or at least on VoR’s).
I can’t imagine too many guardians are going to rely on VoC’s passive to protect them from end-game boss 1-shot attacks. If it’s, sure. But VoC’s active, or simply dodging, seem to be the much better way to avoid being 1-shot by nasty atttacks. And that’s even assuming it’s up during the 1-shot attack.
And to illustrate my point, think how many dodges we can do (even without Vigor) in the 40 seconds it takes to recharge VoC’s passive. For one block that we can’t control, 40 seconds just seems excessive. The active is great, I’m not saying it isn’t. But the passive (or its cooldown) just doesn’t seem to be on the level of the others (or at least on VoR’s).
Being able to dodge is everyone’s responsibility and in a perfect scenario would be great but it shouldn’t be used as a reason to debunk a player’s reliance on that skill/utility/trait. The option of activating VoC is there just in case players are caught out or had a concentration lapse. Having that option is part of the Guardian, after all we are a support profession.
The 40 second cooldown is to balance the potential that VoC can have when traited and timed correctly. Virtue activation by default is lacklustre but properly treated, it is an extremely powerful tool to use.
Someone already mentioned that VOC can break stuns and grant stability. But then combine it with Renewed Focus which resets the cool downs, 40 seconds doesn’t sound too unfair. Obviously it’s power will depend on how you set out your guardian but comparing it to a Warrior Shield skill doesn’t really put things in the correct context. Also to comment about the focus block, while both a 3 second block and 3 block have their strengths and weaknesses, the focus doesn’t require your character to stand immobile after activation. Also the guardian Mace #3 is also essentially a block, so if you begin to combine all of the Guardian’s elements together you can see why maybe the warrior shield block is on a shorter cool down.
To summarise everything that has been said, Guardians simply have multiple options in gaining Aegis that the cooldown on VoC should not be an issue. Multiple options of block on selected cooldowns force players to properly time their blocks during encounters, regardless whether it is PvE or PvP.
Also to further answer your concerns, try to imagine VoC as just one element of the Guardian. When you start making links between certain combinations of traits and setups, you will see it’s strengths rather than just the weaknesses which will happen if you treat it as a stand alone ability.
(edited by Polle.6908)
passively, it should block more than once every 40 seconds, maybe it applies the block ever 25-30 or so
R40 Mesmer
Hypercrushed
Hypercrushed
it already does block every 30 when traited
Comparing Aegis with a warrior’s shield block is comparing apples and oranges and near ludicrous.
Huumm, I find it most useful on the first backstab a thief tries to throw my way. I don’t think 40 sec is stupidly long.
Skirr
37 WvW kills, R2 PvP and no legendary
37 WvW kills, R2 PvP and no legendary
A block for yourself could still mean the difference between being downed or not. A lot of end game bosses have 1 shot attacks.
I can’t imagine too many guardians are going to rely on VoC’s passive to protect them from end-game boss 1-shot attacks. If it’s, sure. But VoC’s active, or simply dodging, seem to be the much better way to avoid being 1-shot by nasty atttacks. And that’s even assuming it’s up during the 1-shot attack.
And to illustrate my point, think how many dodges we can do (even without Vigor) in the 40 seconds it takes to recharge VoC’s passive. For one block that we can’t control, 40 seconds just seems excessive. The active is great, I’m not saying it isn’t. But the passive (or its cooldown) just doesn’t seem to be on the level of the others (or at least on VoR’s).
That’s not the point.
I never said you “rely” on it for anything.
I’m just pointing out what it could be useful for and in what situations. No one is pretending it’s some OP ability. But it’s far from being useless like what the OP is implying.
I’m just pointing out what it could be useful for and in what situations. No one is pretending it’s some OP ability. But it’s far from being useless like what the OP is implying.
I never even hinted at it being useless. Don’t put words in peoples’ mouths.
it already does block every 30 when traited
Yeah but you have to trait up a boring tree to do WHAT IT SHOULD ALREADY DO and then pigeon hole yourself severely.
If I have a choice between AH MF and Pure voice OR Indomitable Courage… I know what I would pick every time.
Comparing Aegis with a warrior’s shield block is comparing apples and oranges and near ludicrous.
Yeah you know, its not like the 2 character classes are mele classes that exist in the same game… can’t compare them at all. One is from GW2 and the other is from… ugh I forget.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
it already does block every 30 when traited
Yeah but you have to trait up a boring tree to do WHAT IT SHOULD ALREADY DO and then pigeon hole yourself severely.
Well, that is kind of the point in having skill trees in the first place – you either spec for getting added utility out of your virtues or you don’t – it’s a choice. There are far more broken traits and traitlines to worry about tbh.
Hi I’m a mesmer and I’m upset that my f1,f2,f3, and f4 dont do anything for me unless I use them.
Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|
If not traited virtues is a pretty weak mechanics, if traited is pretty strong one. Guard have greats traits for virtues.
That force you to trait them for being really useful.
it already does block every 30 when traited
Yeah but you have to trait up a boring tree to do WHAT IT SHOULD ALREADY DO and then pigeon hole yourself severely.
Well, that is kind of the point in having skill trees in the first place – you either spec for getting added utility out of your virtues or you don’t – it’s a choice. There are far more broken traits and traitlines to worry about tbh.
My argument was that people don’t much like the tree. NOT that it was useless. The traits are weaker mostly focused on defense. Valor and honor have both offense and defense. It needs to have a few traits merged and rethought out.
Compare virtues to adrenaline skills and they are very uninspired and not very exciting.
Now move battle presence to the top of that tree, merge a couple of the traits, add an offensive trait, and it starts to be more appealing.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
If not traited virtues is a pretty weak mechanics, if traited is pretty strong one. Guard have greats traits for virtues.
That force you to trait them for being really useful.
It cost you exactly 5 trait points to get the equivalent of 1.5 shouts on a 60 s cd. That is the same as 1.5 extra utility slots. Pretty easy choice.
even though i can agree with OP untraited the passive is pretty mediocre.
My argument was that people don’t much like the tree. NOT that it was useless. The traits are weaker mostly focused on defense. Valor and honor have both offense and defense. It needs to have a few traits merged and rethought out.
While I can agree to that to a certain extent, you have to be careful not to overlook Virtues passive offensive capability ( boon duration, retaliation, consecration duration/cd reduction ) which can count for a lot.
There’s a reason why a lot of the popular DPS builds spec into virtues:
Also, if conditions didn’t generally suck on the guardian, then a trait like Permeating Wrath would actually be very good. On the other hand, Power of the Virtuous definitely needs a buff…
(edited by Tarsius.3170)
To answer your question, I’d just say, you are being spoiled.
How so?
You probably only has one character, which is your guardian.
I have five level 80 characters.
I have every classes lv80.
Congratulations.
That auto aegis is unbelievably useful in a dungeon boss fight.
Unbelievable? Or mildly useful?
And you complain about CD being too long?
Did I complain? Or did I question its cooldown?
Warrior’s block? Though a useful skill, while he uses shield 5, he cant use any other skills while blocking.
Oh no! Whatever will he do!?
Why not talk about your 6 skill having 2 block duration while healing? Not to mention the CD is just 30 too!
Because this post is about Virtue of Courage’s passive bonus, not Shelter.
You also have 90 CD 3 secs invulnerable elite that also grants recharge of all virtue, meaning 2000 healing, 5 secs burning and 1 more aegis.
Again, this post is about Virtue of Courage, not Renewed Focus.
You also have focus which you can block 5 attacks while activating other skills, plus it’s instance, so you can use it even when you’re being crowd controlled.
Yes, I know. I said as much. Again, this post isn’t about the lack of blocking skills, it’s about Virtue of Courage’s passive effect.
You also got multiple skills that block projectiles for a long duration of times, which warrior totally does not has access to.
For the fourth time, this post is about Virtue of Courage, not warriors vs guardians.
Yeah, guardian should totally have aegis that grants invincible for 90 secs right?
Did I say anything even remotely close to that? Stop trying to put words in other peoples’ mouths.
See who’s spoiled.
Again, how does anything said in this post make me spoiled? How about you stop acting like an oversensitive child and actually address what I said, not what you perceived me to say?
Ik you’re being mad by me pinpointing you.
But look at how you state this post.
You are using warrior’s shield 5 block to justify the need of a buff for virtue of courage, which is totally unnecessary and unfair.
I give you examples of guardians having multiple OTHER blocks that can compare to, or even surpass warrior’s shield 5 block, which counter your point of virtue of courage need a buff.
I said you’re spoiled because you are using examples of other classes being better to justify the need of virtue of courage’s buff.
I said you did not play other classes because you are using a weapon skill that bound to a specific weapon to compare to your free auto block, plus you can do the same thing or even better with your 6 7 8 9 and elite.
One more thing, pinpointing my sentence one by one does not make your post more constructive.
(edited by Aomine.5012)
My argument was that people don’t much like the tree. NOT that it was useless. The traits are weaker mostly focused on defense. Valor and honor have both offense and defense. It needs to have a few traits merged and rethought out.
While I can agree to that to a certain extent, you have to be careful not to overlook Virtues passive offensive capability ( boon duration, retaliation, consecration duration/cd reduction ) which can count for a lot.
There’s a reason why a lot of the popular DPS builds spec into virtues:
Also, if conditions didn’t generally suck on the guardian, then a trait like Permeating Wrath would actually be very good. On the other hand, Power of the Virtuous definitely needs a buff…
I think they could rework the tree slightly so that virtues were better.
I believe that, in comparison to a warrior, a lot of our skills are unnecessarily weak without traiting.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)