Guild Wars 2

As most of us who have been playing guardian since launch will know, we are front line support. This means that we use our skills to support the melee types with boons and mitigation.

What we are not are trinity type healers. We do not have lots of skills that heal OTHER PEOPLE. sure we have the odd healing through symbols and regens from boons, but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

By trying to be a trinity type healer you are losing out on much DPS for your group. Your heals are generally ineffective in dungeons where mobs are out damaging your healing anyway. This means your usefulness in a party drops to something like 20% of what you could be doing.

One of the best healing abilities a guardian has is HEAL ON DODGE. You have the ability to heal those around you for a considerable amount of healing (dpending on spec) every 5 seconds. Now the catch here is vigorous precision only procs when you ATTACK. You get nothing if you just hang back and wait for cooldowns on your staff 3 and staff 2.

Also to note, your main healing weapon is actually a mace! which requires you to get in melee and attacking with it to make it work. Its amazing how much healing you can do when you do mace 1 chain then dodge, rinse, repeat. Wearing full clerics with trinkets with healing you will be able to do massive amounts of healing.

The Guardian mechanic is designed to be frontline support. This is geared towards supporting through attacking. If you wan’t to play a Guardian effectively, L2P. And for those who think “well, I will play how I wan’t to play” you will eventually find no one will be playing with you in dungeons or in WvW. Guardians is about group play. Not selfish play style because you don’t have the ability to pay attention to what is going on around you.

If you want to be a trinity type healer. Roll a Water ele. At least you will be more useful to your party.

Ok rant over.

So true! Give them glass warriors more protection!

+1 for good post, some guardians need to learn that this is not a regular mmo with trinity

Yey amen brother. Finally somebody to recommend a guardian for what it is and not being a healer. Actually everytime i read that someone recommends guardian for a healer, a part of me dies that instant :X
I mean come on, have they ever played guardian? Why do they suggest that? o.O
The group heals have HUGE reuses, wth

KensaiZen.3740:

…but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

Not sure this is sound advice… telling people this will just turn ineffective guardians into ineffective elementalists!

If you want to be a trinity healer, go different game.

I realize I’m not a healer, but I’m specced for max support/defense/heals, and I do a pretty darned good job keeping my group up.

I agree that we are not classic trinity healers, in the sense that we have no burst healing. But over the course of a long battle, I can heal quite well, much better than I thought would be possible.

Note to new Guardians: we are not a “trinity” DPS class either, or a tank. So if you want to heal, heal, if you want to DPS, DPS, if you want to “tank” (you really can’t in the sense of always drwaing aggro), build up a lot of armor/toughness.

Let people play whichever way they want. Heals work well for Guardian. The important thing is that they realize they can also apply offensive boons, defensive boons, and attack the enemy while they heal. I sincerely doubt anyone who focus on heals with their Guardian sits on their back while watching health bars. They also attack, support, etc.

Why I kind of resent this type of thread? Because indirectly it praises direct damage over any of the many other options the Guardian has, even beyond healing. There’s no true healer role in GW2, BUT there’s no all-DPS role either-players should feel free to play their Guardian without anyone telling them they should not heal/invest in Healing Power, because “there’s no healer role” (then they shouldn’t invest in damage either, because there’s no DPS role…, etc.)

Again DPS IS an ok way to play-just let other people play whatever they wish too, even if it focuses a lot on heals-they will still be contributing to the party’s progress in other ways that are both fun to them and effective.

Munrock.3092:

KensaiZen.3740:

…but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

Not sure this is sound advice… telling people this will just turn ineffective guardians into ineffective elementalists!

If you want to be a trinity healer, go different game.

If they are going to be ineffective then point them to the eles. That way we Guardians don’t get the bad press.

Tyber Valens.5148:

Munrock.3092:

KensaiZen.3740:

…but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

Not sure this is sound advice… telling people this will just turn ineffective guardians into ineffective elementalists!

If you want to be a trinity healer, go different game.

If they are going to be ineffective then point them to the eles. That way we Guardians don’t get the bad press.

Why not focus on having fun, rather than who’s being more effective? I have never played with anyone and second- guessed whether they are being effective or not-it’s NOT my business, even if they are in my party. This is not a business or job, where “maximum effectiveness” is required. Further, it’s is arrogant to presume that only the way we choose to play is the only “effective” way to play-even if that would be the way the majority usually plays.

All things have a right to grow.

(If people want to play a “healer”, they just can’t, even with Elementalist-at least not in the way it used to be with Monks. There are no “trinity” roles in this game. that said, both Guardians and Elementalists can apply good heals over time, supplementing each other character’s survival capabilities.)

Eles actually heal quite well. Water skills scale quite well with healing power. That said, healing in general isn’t very good in this game.

Star Ace.5207:

Tyber Valens.5148:

Munrock.3092:

KensaiZen.3740:

…but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

Not sure this is sound advice… telling people this will just turn ineffective guardians into ineffective elementalists!

If you want to be a trinity healer, go different game.

If they are going to be ineffective then point them to the eles. That way we Guardians don’t get the bad press.

Why not focus on having fun, rather than who’s being more effective? I have never played with anyone and second- guessed whether they are being effective or not-it’s NOT my business, even if they are in my party. This is not a business or job, where “maximum effectiveness” is required. Further, it’s is arrogant to presume that only the way we choose to play is the only “effective” way to play-even if that would be the way the majority usually plays.

All things have a right to grow.

(If people want to play a “healer”, they just can’t, even with Elementalist-at least not in the way it used to be with Monks. There are no “trinity” roles in this game. that said, both Guardians and Elementalists can apply good heals over time, supplementing each other character’s survival capabilities.)

Please reread what I wrote. Only this time bring your sense of humor along.

And no all things do not have a right to grow.

Star Ace.5207:

Note to new Guardians: we are not a “trinity” DPS class either, or a tank. So if you want to heal, heal, if you want to DPS, DPS, if you want to “tank” (you really can’t in the sense of always drwaing aggro), build up a lot of armor/toughness.

Let people play whichever way they want. Heals work well for Guardian. The important thing is that they realize they can also apply offensive boons, defensive boons, and attack the enemy while they heal. I sincerely doubt anyone who focus on heals with their Guardian sits on their back while watching health bars. They also attack, support, etc.

Why I kind of resent this type of thread? Because indirectly it praises direct damage over any of the many other options the Guardian has, even beyond healing. There’s no true healer role in GW2, BUT there’s no all-DPS role either-players should feel free to play their Guardian without anyone telling them they should not heal/invest in Healing Power, because “there’s no healer role” (then they shouldn’t invest in damage either, because there’s no DPS role…, etc.)

Again DPS IS an ok way to play-just let other people play whatever they wish too, even if it focuses a lot on heals-they will still be contributing to the party’s progress in other ways that are both fun to them and effective.

I concur.

I also dislike threads like this. I think my Guardian can dish out some very nice heals, and having 2 Guards in your group makes your team virtually unkillable.

I would also like to say that a good build that maximizes our healing potential also does a fairly good job of maximizing our boon output. So if you do go with a “healing build” you will also be doing a very good job of providing boons to your allies which in turn will make up for the your lack of direct damage, while also providing even more survivability for your allies.

Simply telling someone they cannot focus on a healing build, especially someone who plays a Guardian, is just stupid. I’ll grant that emergency or burst healing is harder to do in this game, but when your dishing out many smaller heals over the course of a fight emergency healing becomes less needed.

Please stop with these posts.

Star Ace.5207:

Note to new Guardians: we are not a “trinity” DPS class either, or a tank. So if you want to heal, heal, if you want to DPS, DPS, if you want to “tank” (you really can’t in the sense of always drwaing aggro), build up a lot of armor/toughness.

Let people play whichever way they want. Heals work well for Guardian. The important thing is that they realize they can also apply offensive boons, defensive boons, and attack the enemy while they heal. I sincerely doubt anyone who focus on heals with their Guardian sits on their back while watching health bars. They also attack, support, etc.

Why I kind of resent this type of thread? Because indirectly it praises direct damage over any of the many other options the Guardian has, even beyond healing. There’s no true healer role in GW2, BUT there’s no all-DPS role either-players should feel free to play their Guardian without anyone telling them they should not heal/invest in Healing Power, because “there’s no healer role” (then they shouldn’t invest in damage either, because there’s no DPS role…, etc.)

Again DPS IS an ok way to play-just let other people play whatever they wish too, even if it focuses a lot on heals-they will still be contributing to the party’s progress in other ways that are both fun to them and effective.

I think you need to go reread my original post

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

Tyber Valens.5148:

And no all things do not have a right to grow.

I meant no offense. However, intolerance is the one thing that should not have a right to grow. Otherwise, I still believe, all things have a right to grow (feel free to disagree, because your opinion has a right to grow too, even if I disagree with it.)

People should have the right to play whichever way they want and makes the game fun to them. Thus all things (playstyles) have a right to grow-even if somebody favors heals on a Guardian (which again, doesn’t mean he/she will just watch heal bars and do nothing else-it’s not even possible to play that way anymore in any case.)

To be honest, I am almost sure I don’t disagree with the OP as much, because I also believe there are no “trinity” roles to be filled. I just wish people are free to play however they want, whether that’s full berserker’s or full healing power, because that’s their right, and as long as we play relatively well, most builds will also do quite well.

KensaiZen.3740:

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

Well, your title is very misleading then. To say that the class that has the most healing output is not a healer is just ridiculous.

Vitu.3580:

KensaiZen.3740:

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

Well, your title is very misleading then. To say that the class that has the most healing output is not a healer is just ridiculous.

The class may have the most healing output to SELF. But it does not have the most healing output for party.

You do not play a guardian like you would a Monk in GW1. You would not play a Guardian like a healer in WoW.

This is why we have such a low health pool to balance it

If you even try to go full healing for party by taking consecration skills you would cripple yourself and your party because the cooldowns are insanely long.

KensaiZen.3740:

Vitu.3580:

KensaiZen.3740:

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

Well, your title is very misleading then. To say that the class that has the most healing output is not a healer is just ridiculous.

The class may have the most healing output to SELF. But it does not have the most healing output for party.

You do not play a guardian like you would a Monk in GW1. You would not play a Guardian like a healer in WoW.

This is why we have such a low health pool to balance it

If you even try to go full healing for party by taking consecration skills you would cripple yourself and your party because the cooldowns are insanely long.

The only thing I will concede is that in WvW if all you do is sit back and try to heal ppl without doing anything else, you be a handicap to your team. A full Heal focused build would be very very situational and unreliable, but not without its uses completely.

In dungeons I know that Guardians have the highest sustained party healing potential of any class in this game. The only other class that would be comparable is an Elementalist, and in my opinion they are more burst heals and can do an excellent amount of it but with longer CDs.

I can list every single party heal a Guardian can have access to in one build if you want, just to show how much healing a Guardian can dish out at a sustainable rate to greatly increase your parties survivability.

Also, I don’t really know what Consecrations have to with healing other than sanctuary. Not sure why’d you’d want to go with a full Consecration build….

If healing is your thing then just bring along Tome of Courage as your elite and full heal the party every 3 1/2 minutes.

Exactly for Sanctuary and purging flames.

In meditation there is Merciful intervention (which heals for less and still have a really long cooldown) Monks focus makers meditations heal YOURSELF, thus making not a healer.

What other useful skills are there for HEAL OTHER? that is a decent heal to use when hanging back and healing.

Healing through symbols does not go into this as you have to be swinging away with a hammer to activate that one thus the whole point of healing through combat. Mace symbol is decent but realistically would you be standing at the back with a mace just spamming symbols? no.

If you can show me a viable build that heals OTHERS for a considerable amount that makes it viable for dungeon play and WvW. Perhaps you will convince me.

Hammer Build for PvE is insanely good. I’m onthe same page as Vitu on this one:
1) Stack Cleric/Sapp Gear w/p Monk/Water runes,
2) equip Hammer + water rune,
3) Symbols larger + symbols heal and Battle presense Traits from Honor
4) add in Hold the Line, Bow of Truth and MI…
5) Healing Breese + Tome

10/x/x/30/20

HUGE healing. Huge.

Unfortunatly, for WvW, spirit weapons suck (Shield + Bow) due to being unreliable… and MI is horrible because you have ~pay attention Anet~…. NO freaking idea where you’re going to end up or who you’re going to heal.

So let me guess… using a hammer means you have to be in the frontline swinging away to proc the symbol to heal as well as proc the sigil of water.

This is a front line support. You can only heal those near you unless you range around trying to heal people with healing breeze. MI is random as hell and on a huge cool down. Apart from the tome, healing breeze and sanctuary, you dont have good burst heal skills. Sorry but regen is laughable in all dungeons except for AC.

Basically, if your not getting stuck in. Your not doing much which reduces your combat effectiveness by a huge amount.

Regen is not laughable ever. Especially with good Healing Power. It’s only laughable when you have zero investment in Healing Power. Hold the Line is an amazing skill due to this.

To the OP I ask-have you ever seen a Guardian played like a GW1 Monk? Because I certainly haven’t. My point being FOCUSING ON HEALING POWER AND SUPPORT =/= BELIEVING YOU ARE A TRUE HEALER ALA OTHER MMOs AND BEHAVING AS SUCH.

My view is that some people seem to believe that, since there is no healer role, they should not invest in a “wasted” trait. But since there is ALSO no DPS role, by the same logic you “should not invest” in power, precision, and critical damage. Either that, or you actually believe that there’s only ONE viable “role”: DPS. Which, from the ample gameplay choices we are given in the game, is simply not true. This game is not about “trinity” roles, INCLUDING DPS. People that invest heavily on Healing Power DO NOT stay on the back doing “nothing but heal”, but are rather using an effective, fun way to play the game, contributing to the party/allies in ways more than the usual DPS-which is also cool and viable.

Again, given that I have NEVER seen a Guardian staying in the back to play a “healer” role, this thread serves more as another very common suggestion that investing in Healing Power is all but useless for Guardians-even if that isn’t really intended, that’s how it comes accross, since I see no reason to tell people to avoid doing something that they are not really doing in the first place (playing a “Healer” role.)

Note that I am not upset or angry at anyone, so my apologies if my choice of words seems too harsh or unreasonable.

Water sigils are pretty terrible imho, the 30% chance to heal only procs on critical hits. Almost worthless on a full cleric build. Bring Hydromancy or Life sigils instead.

The trinity sadly exists in this game though the itention by the devs was not to have it.

The problem lay with people making builds for DPS and expecting other people to support and heal them, which is wrong. Each class is supposed to take their own heals and support skills and dps and balance them out so the party as a whole works together and covers each other, but people are simply foolish and do what they want instead of building for a team.

In dungeons i heal and support quite well alone and dps a modest amount, when i have a party that also has proper heals and support among each other the health bars barely move except for spike damage that is covered up quickly.

The OP should have placed this thread in the general GW2 subforum to address people making specific builds and placing undue pressure or hardship on other classes, not just the guardian, to heal them when they should be healing themselves and buffing each other, as all classes can do.

Instead people simply want to dps, something that should be looked into by the people that made this game.

KensaiZen.3740:

If you can show me a viable build that heals OTHERS for a considerable amount that makes it viable for dungeon play and WvW. Perhaps you will convince me.

First, anytime you want to heal others your primary weapon should be the staff. The 2 and 4 skill both apply heals to those in range when they are activated or the channel is completed, and with Writ of the Merciful the 3 skill Symbol will heal those who stand in its AoE. So there’s 3 heals right there on about a 10-15 second CD each. Run Mace/Shield as your secondary weapons.

Second, you need a lot of Healing Power. So Cleric’s armor with Runes of Dwayna, or really any rune that has healing power for maximum healing potential. This will make most of your “smaller heals” heal for at least 2k each.

Third, run a build something like 0-0-10-30-30 making sure to grab “Writ of the Merciful,” “Writ of Exaltation,” “Two Handed Mastery,” and possibly “Elite Focus” depending on which Elite ability you choose.

Fifth, run “Healing Breeze” as your heal, and “Hold the Line” with whatever 2 utility skills you want. For your Elite ability you can run “Tome of Courage” for incredible emergency healing at the expense of a fairly long CD (in which case you’ll want Elite Focus), or “Renewed Focus” so you can refresh the CD on “Virtue of Resolve” every 90 seconds.

So you have 3 low CD heals with the staff, 2 low CD heals with the mace (though for the auto-attack heal you have to be attacking something up close) and 1 long CD heal, Virtue of Resolve which also grants regeneration, Healing Breeze on a medium CD, Hold the Line which grants regeneration, and if you run Tome of Courage you get one 100% full heal to everyone around you and a spammable AoE heal that you can cast for 25 seconds.

So 10 abilities with one of them being a spam heal for at least 25 secs that heal other people besides yourself.
——————————————————————————————————————————————

I’ve also thought about traiting “Pure of Heart” and running with the utility skill “Retreat.” I haven’t tested the effectiveness of the heal at the end of Aegis though, or even if it heals your allies or just yourself. If the heal is viable you have access to 3 quick Aegis abilities through Virtue of Courage with Renewed Focus, and Retreat, so that could be an option for this build as well without really sacrificing much.

Edit: I derped pretty hard and forgot to mention the heal at the end of our dodge, one of the stronger and more frequent heals a Guardian has access to

i think all OP meant was that he’s seen Guardians who were hanging back from the fight, focusing on healing, when most of our healing is in fact done up front in mobs/invader’s faces. i.e. by smashing things with mace and hammer and dropping symbols.

i personally haven’t seen Guards that do that. even with scepter of staff, all the Guards i’ve been with are up close and personal. the way we’re meant to be. taking the focus fire off our ranged. while giving enough support and healing to our melee-ers. which is what OP is “for” as well. perhaps the title could be changed to something more specific to the OP’s issue with Guards who try to heal, hiding in the back of the lines or kiting mobs without hitting them.

I guess i’m an old Guardian because I eventually discovered that Guardians do heal and protect, accompanying them partymates in the frontlines and killing kitten to charge up my Sigil of Life which boosts my HEALING POWER.

I kind of feel like a Guardian strictly hanging back and only healing would be useless. Kensai is right on that note. We simply can’t support a team from the backlines, waiting to put boons at the right time and laying symbols to heal heal allies… especially when everyone is constantly moving.

I myself “mainly” run a tough/healing build, but I am always at the front line. My main focus is on throwing out as much damage as possible and keeping my warrior( or any other up front fighters I have with me. If any guardians run a healing type build, that’s mostly how it should be done. You keep yourself and you warrior constantly healed and buffed. Any ranged fighters, should have the skill to be able to watch a boss’ movements and dodgeroll.

Guardians are very good healers, but only on the frontline for yourself and whoever happens to be close to you, which should be other guardians or warriors. Even when facing multiple mobs, A guardian and warrior should be able to round them up and keep “most” pressure off the ranged fighters.

Kensai did make a good point, and some people took it the wrong way. I’ll admit, I did at first as well and initially was like… “Ah hell no.” Then realized >_<

Azuriel.9137:

Kensai did make a good point, and some people took it the wrong way. I’ll admit, I did at first as well and initially was like… “Ah hell no.” Then realized >_<

I have nothing against the OP, my problem is that the “problem” he sees I’ve NEVER seen (someone playing their Guardian as another game"s “trinity” healer), so I believe most people will take this thread the way it generally came accross-investing in Healing Power or “too many” skills that heal is the same as thinking you are a “healer”, when we pretty much just behave similarly to what you discussed above (heal WHILE fighting in the frontlines). He then claims Guardians can’t party heal well, but they actually do, just not as the sole source of healing, which works as intended. My party heals through Empower, dodge heals, and Regen work quite well IME. While it’s fun to “heal”, I have never stood in the back doing anything else but “heal” (only way that could be done albeit temporarily is with the Tome of Courage, and I don’t even use that Elite since probably the first time I acquired it, by the first week since headstart-Renewed Focus is it for me, though I can imagine many good players using ToC to much better effect than I do.)

I am sorry if my posts above seemed too combative-I generally accept all playstyles as viable, including “DPS-like” and “Healer-like”, even though there is NO “trinity role” to be filled per se. A “Guardian Healer” doing nothing but “healing” the party and not attacking/doing anything else would be a rarity-so far (1,000+ hours), I’ve never seen such a thing.

Star Ace.5207:

My view is that some people seem to believe that, since there is no healer role, they should not invest in a “wasted” trait. But since there is ALSO no DPS role, by the same logic you “should not invest” in power, precision, and critical damage. Either that, or you actually believe that there’s only ONE viable “role”: DPS. Which, from the ample gameplay choices we are given in the game, is simply not true. This game is not about “trinity” roles, INCLUDING DPS. People that invest heavily on Healing Power DO NOT stay on the back doing “nothing but heal”, but are rather using an effective, fun way to play the game, contributing to the party/allies in ways more than the usual DPS-which is also cool and viable.

Actually DPS is a (and the only) viable pure role. All other variations are hybrids of DPS and support. The reason is that they made DPS skills not only abundant with short cooldowns, but significantly more powerful than the heals. It’s also quite necessary since all you need for leveling is DPS, if that wasn’t a “role” the whole leveling process would be much slower and less engaging.

They mitigated the need for healing by throwing in dodging. But they didn’t mitigate the need for DPS. Bashing monsters with weapons and spells is still the only way to kill them.

Azuriel.9137:

Guardians are very good healers, but only on the frontline for yourself and whoever happens to be close to you, which should be other guardians or warriors.

Guardian is very much not only a front line combatant in the same way that the ranger is not only a back line combatant. Guardians are very much mid-range skirmishers — every single one of our weapons except for the mace has an attack or utility skill that reaches 600+ units (not to mention the plethora of gap closers to support the play style).

If you’re not playing your guardian mid-range then frankly you’re playing wrong. I play a power/precision shout build usually, but whenever I have at least two allies with me I swap out my jewelry for cleric/sapphire gear. Scepter/shield + greatsword or Scepter/shield + staff are all you need, and you should be switching between them often.

I was able to keep a party of glass cannons up using nothing but a standard shout rotation and Tome of Courage three times in a 45 minute run of CoE. That’s one true heal every 15 minutes. I’m not posting this to rub myself in places but to highlight how easy our profession makes it to play heals and support at mid-range. I’m fully aware of the fact that it was the profession and not the player that made this possible.

Frankly and honestly, a guardian that spends most of his/her time in melee is a guardian that doesn’t know how to play. Telling me that guardians are only good at healing in melee is like telling me that mesmers don’t need to use clones — it’s false. Telling me that healing as a guardian is a detriment to your team is false — at the very least, Empower (staff #4) will make up for the fact that you’ve swapped to a different weapon for 15 seconds.

Yaki.9563:

Star Ace.5207:

My view is that some people seem to believe that, since there is no healer role, they should not invest in a “wasted” trait. But since there is ALSO no DPS role, by the same logic you “should not invest” in power, precision, and critical damage. Either that, or you actually believe that there’s only ONE viable “role”: DPS. Which, from the ample gameplay choices we are given in the game, is simply not true. This game is not about “trinity” roles, INCLUDING DPS. People that invest heavily on Healing Power DO NOT stay on the back doing “nothing but heal”, but are rather using an effective, fun way to play the game, contributing to the party/allies in ways more than the usual DPS-which is also cool and viable.

Actually DPS is a (and the only) viable pure role. All other variations are hybrids of DPS and support. The reason is that they made DPS skills not only abundant with short cooldowns, but significantly more powerful than the heals. It’s also quite necessary since all you need for leveling is DPS, if that wasn’t a “role” the whole leveling process would be much slower and less engaging.

They mitigated the need for healing by throwing in dodging. But they didn’t mitigate the need for DPS. Bashing monsters with weapons and spells is still the only way to kill them.

It’s a false assumption, IMHO. Thing is, people are SO USED to “trinity”, that they want a “role”, thus find the only viable one to be DPS, because it seems to be the only “remaining one” that is more “effective” (and easily noticeable.) But what you stated, the “hybrid DPS-support role” is probably more akin to what developers were really looking for when designing this game’s combat. No roles, including no DPS-only characters. Dodging is just another way to mitigate damage, not the only one (it is also limited by Vigor and a cooldown, much like heals are rather small, blocks are limited as are blinds, and Protection only lasts for a few seconds.) You can still play DPS (I’ve never find a problem with that); the only problem I find is when many of you make it the only way to play the game, when I am SURE it isn’t what developers intended, and there are MYRIADS of ways to have fun that isn’t bashing your weapons on the enemy.

Freedom of choice to play vs fixed ways to win (such as DPS, etc.)=ideal GW2 combat. DPS “roles” should be for those who enjoy them, not EVERYBODY, just because those damage numbers is what you and many others prefer. I would never tell anyone that the way to play is to invest in Healing Power, even though it works (whatever you may think, feel free to disagree), because it’s not my right to tell people that they must enjoy the game the way I do.

I honestly believe support skills shouldn’t be buffed, but actually rewarded, so that people saw the necessity to even try them sometime. I remember when my Guardian was young and with low gear, I bashed away at the enemy a LOT and still didn’t get a Bronze medal sometimes, because of low damage-I was however helping all those allies fight those few problematic bosses in many ways (other than healing, which I also did.) Many people are not easily seeing any benefit to support/heal skills and get back to what used to work for them in most games, and what seems to work “best” now-damage, damage, damage.

(I am not anti-damage, but more anti-intolerance about things other than damage being useful.)

Guardians can be mid-line supports too if they choose to go Staff/Scepter and completely spec for support, in which case they need the extra range to stay safer.

It’s not out of the question if you do it right.

But I’m guessing the OP is directed towards less component guardians.

Oh, and FYI: Most players don’t go to the forums. Only especially useful stuff like gw2lfg.com get wide-spread in the actual game community

DreamOfACure.4382:

Guardians can be mid-line supports too if they choose to go Staff/Scepter and completely spec for support, in which case they need the extra range to stay safer.

It’s not out of the question if you do it right.

But I’m guessing the OP is directed towards less component guardians.

Oh, and FYI: Most players don’t go to the forums. Only especially useful stuff like gw2lfg.com get wide-spread in the actual game community

Mid-line works well for Greatsword, Sword, Torch, Focus, and Shield too. With the sword it’s about juggling 2/3 and your offhand after dodging or while kiting. With the greatsword it’s about proper use of 2/3/4/5 and (when you’re with other players or have fire fields) your whirl finishers.

The only weapon we have that wants you standing relatively still is the mace. All of the other ones are about creating distance, closing distance, or controlling positioning. You should be kiting/circling while auto attacking, sure, but focusing on one skill and deciding that one skill and that one skill alone make the guardian melee-dps only is just stupidity.

If you’re using your greatsword or hammer and aren’t pressing ` to get at more active skills in favor of auto-attacking, then you’re terrible. (That is a general “you”, not directed at anyone in particular.)

Well, technically, when one uses Tome of Courage, they basically become a healing monk. :p
While I somewhat agree that there are no trinity healers, I don’t think guardians are or should be exclusively “front-line”. The warrior is supposed excel at close-range, yet they have two very decent ranged options. As DreamOfACure stated, it is possible to support from longer ranges with a staff/scepter build. The only thing really stopping the Guardian from supporting from a really long range, is the scepter’s auto-attack projectiles moving at a ridiculously slow velocity, and the staff’s horribly misplaced auto-attack.

It is possible but it is not ideal. Like the warrior can spec for range but it is not ideal. A front line support is by far more effective than a mid range support. What do you think is mid ranged? Between 600 to 900? If you have to constantly go into the under 600 range then you ate still being front line.

Of course you can still provide support byt how effective will your support be compared to someone who can provide much better support being frontline. The healing provided by a mace in constant flow is much higher than any sub burst skills. The hammer provides constant damage reduction and healing through symbol. Your ranged options barely scratch any kind of healing.

If your best healing and support weapons are melee. It makes perfect logical sense to choose a ranged option just because you can.

Im sure no one wants to be the kid that gets picked last in a team. Hell it could even mean you dont get picked for a team.

When you run the same dungeons 50 times a month you want to do it as quickly as possible. Who the hell would want to pick people who are sub par.

They already said in the class balance post we won’t be ranging. Gotta except it although spamming the staff 2 attack does a great deal of damage PVE wise. PVP you may want to use another tactic.

KensaiZen.3740:

Of course you can still provide support byt how effective will your support be compared to someone who can provide much better support being frontline. The healing provided by a mace in constant flow is much higher than any sub burst skills. The hammer provides constant damage reduction and healing through symbol. Your ranged options barely scratch any kind of healing.

If your best healing and support weapons are melee. It makes perfect logical sense to choose a ranged option just because you can.

Dude….do you even play Guardian? Have you ever tried using a Staff? Staff has 2 skills that heal, 3 if traited for healing symbols, all at range. Staff also applies an almost constant 12 stack of might to everyone around you.

It’s become very clear to me that you don’t know what you’re talking about and refuse to listen to anything anyone is saying. I just posted a huge wall of text at your request to show you the relatively large amounts of party-wide healing the Guardian has access to, and I’m almost certain you didn’t even look at it, and/or you are completely ignoring it.

Without a doubt, a Guardian can support those around him with any weapon he/she is using through the use of those weapons, traits, virtues, and utilities, but if you want to maximize your boon/healing output the only way to go is staff.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Well, technically, when one uses Tome of Courage, they basically become a healing monk. :p

This is an insult to Monks and their amazing gameplay.

Vitu.3580:

Dude….do you even play Guardian? Have you ever tried using a Staff? Staff has 2 skills that heal, 3 if traited for healing symbols, all at range. Staff also applies an almost constant 12 stack of might to everyone around you.

Yep, 1 heal that sucks and the other that requires you to be rooted in place for 4 seconds. “Almost constant” doesn’t mean half the time.

Kerithlan.1659:

If you’re not playing your guardian mid-range then frankly you’re playing wrong.

This statement alone makes your argument… Invalid.

I thought playing a guardian in pve was about using AH and pumping out a ridiculous amount of buffs. Like a bard in plate.

KensaiZen.3740:

Im sure no one wants to be the kid that gets picked last in a team. Hell it could even mean you dont get picked for a team.

When you run the same dungeons 50 times a month you want to do it as quickly as possible. Who the hell would want to pick people who are sub par.

I have never been asked what “build” I am running for any dungeon, ala GW1 (I believe that was GW1’s weakness: the “need” for specific builds/team builds.) Therefore, how will someone that isn’t full DPS/zero healing power is going to be rejected? Surely such people are actually making a fool out of themselves if they did such a thing (no offense intended, as you yourself may not be asking for gear/builds.) What’s “efficient” for you may not be for me or another player-the crux of the problem of wanting everybody to conform to specific “DPS standards”, especially in a game where we are given SO much choice (gear stats, weapons and their diverse stats, traits, etc.)

Is the way you play is the only valid way to “run” dungeons? I certainly wouldn’t like to play with you if that was the case. Your statements sound like hardcore elitism to me-and one that is misplaced as well, since what you believe is true for yourself and your “elite dungeon runners” don’t apply to all.

I don’t believe we’ll ever agree, so let’s just leave it at that. You are (seemingly) the fast “dungeon runner” type, and I just want to enjoy myself, my character, and helping my allies in whatever way I want. I don’t like to be forced to play playstyles that don’t suit me at all-peace, and a happy new year to you.

Azuriel.9137:

Kerithlan.1659:

If you’re not playing your guardian mid-range then frankly you’re playing wrong.

This statement alone makes your argument… Invalid.

Have fun playing wrong then. The name of the game in GW2 is bob and weave, and dodging in and out of melee-mid is how the guardian was designed. Dodge in → attack → dodge out → support → repeat.

While i agree that no guardian should ever be sitting in the back doing anything be it healing or dps. I dont agree that we cant go for full heal/support, i think this is kinda what the OP is saying but contradinting himself with the title.

I run a full heal/ support/tanky build that uses mace/shield with a staff as secondary. in WvW i run with a group of 4 other melee classes, mostly warriors, dps guardians, thiefs or anyone that likes to frontline fight. my role is to go in first and absorb the burst while my friends come in a couple seconds later and lay down the hurt on anyone not paying attention. during this phase, i use everything i have to stay alive, most ppl dont even realize im not doing much damage to them and get tunnel visioned on me forgetting about that warrior that is 100 blading them before its too late, i cause confusion and panic but rarely get a kill on my own. i also die alot but i call it a sacrifice since my team mates waste alot more of them, usually someone runs with a revival signet or skill that will pop me back up then i switch to just pumping out heals/buffs to keep them up, i dont sit in the back but by this time everyone generally knows what i am and doesnt see me as a threat so im free to bash them with my mace and throw out heals/buffs at will. i find this setup is a blast for me to run and is very effective at eliminating zergs that even vastly outnumber you especially if it is a pug zerg.

idk why you would want to heal in a dungeon. the loss of DPS is a huge hit for the return on the heals. imho you rock as much dps as you can whilst still staying alive. i don’t appreciate having one member hitting 300s and healing for 2k on his f2. just give me someone who can dps and the fight will be done before you need the healing.

but, wvwvw on the other hand, is where healing is magical. everyone around me is getting torn up outside the walls and i just stand there. staff 4 is a full heal every 15 seconds. mind you, you don’t really do any dmg either, but it’s not like anyone notices in zerg v zerg anyway. you can give some buffs and revives without worrying about arrow carts etc… because they don’t do anything.

Kerithlan.1659:

Have fun playing wrong then. The name of the game in GW2 is bob and weave, and dodging in and out of melee-mid is how the guardian was designed. Dodge in -> attack -> dodge out -> support -> repeat.

Actually, in a PVT set with a AH build dodging isn’t even necessary.

Stats seem to make more of a difference in how much you’ll need to dodge. Ranged or melee, if someone isn’t packing some source of survivability they are going to have to be very, very careful in a dungeon or world raid. On the flip-side, I can just run in with my hammer and auto-attack just about anything to death without moving an inch. Sometimes a boss will have a really nasty ability and I’ll have to pop a shout or two to get some prot/regen boons, but usually… 11121112111211121112 It causes a respectable amount of damage, keeps prot, retal, and a small lightfield up 90% of the time, and keeps at least a few might boons on my team at all times. And while this is all happening, I’m healing myself for absurd amounts constantly. I see it as what support in GW2 is intended to be.

I’m not exaggerating here. Guardian is probably the only profession in the game capable of doing this. >.>

Yaki.9563:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Well, technically, when one uses Tome of Courage, they basically become a healing monk. :p

This is an insult to Monks and their amazing gameplay.

I admit I was putting it rather simply. I sure do wish monks would return, even if they weren’t quite the healer they were before. The only reason the Guardian is my favourite profession is because it’s the closest thing to a monk. :\

Kerithlan.1659:

Have fun playing wrong then. The name of the game in GW2 is bob and weave, and dodging in and out of melee-mid is how the guardian was designed. Dodge in -> attack -> dodge out -> support -> repeat.

Bob and Weave? The name of the game is to have fun and play “How you want to.” There is no wrong way. Like I said, I stay up close and personal, dodge up close and make sure myself and my warrior are all set. My group very rarely ever run into problems. I’d be lying if I said i never do, and so would anyone else.

Take your “playing the game wrong” attitude somewhere else. No wrong way, No right way.