Guild Wars 2

I’ll state the obvious again: AH in and of itself, does NOT support your group.

Please try to argue this fact some more.

Amins.3710:

I’ll state the obvious again: AH in and of itself, does NOT support your group.

Please try to argue this fact some more.

It supports yourself which in effect lets you support your group. If your dead your not supporting your group.

Amins.3710:

I’ll state the obvious again: AH in and of itself, does NOT support your group.

Please try to argue this fact some more.

You’re just splitting hairs. Call it whatever you want. If you’re alive, your supporting your team. AH keeps you alive. If ANYONE in your team is staying alive, they are supporting the team.

If you build with a high armor rating, you’re drawing mob attention more frequently from your allies (top of the aggro table). While you’re taking some of the pressure off of your teammates, you can stay alive longer with AH. That’s how I see it as support.

Ok, then Monks Focus and Zealouts Blade are clearly support skills.

I’m glad we’ve got that covered now.

Sure. Did anyone argue they weren’t? Maybe people have different points of view or wish to define support their own way. I don’t think that has any impact on the fundamental point of discussion here which was to drive home the idea that AH has a significant and sole role in support builds and is therefore a support tool. I think a more practical question is what are better support tools than others. For example, I’m certain a meditation/MF build isn’t nearly as supportive as shouts/AH for keeping you alive as well as directly booning your team.

I think the underlying theme of the thread is that Guardians shouldn’t be pigeonholed into some role that doesn’t actually exist in the game from a traditional standpoint. It sets a bad expectation for players that aren’t aware of the class, thinking that a Guardian will save anything from complete failure or accepting modes of play that undervalue Guardians in the general psyche of the playerbase. Perhaps the whole AH/support discussion is a little sidetracked but still relevant to the original point.

Since pictures are 1000 words

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6720/noplacefortanksorcleric.jpg

"Guard"ian no matter how you build it its about if the job gets done……. and dps is useless when it is facedown on the floor and light classes who try reviving put themself way too much at risk.

Amins.3710:

As for your comment on Monks Focus, brutaly, I think you’re pigeon holing the class.

It too, acts in the same respect as AH. it allows us to continue to fulfill our secondary role (CC & Condition Removal): JI (gets you into the fight and sets up the AoE); SY wipes group conditons; CoP keeps you in the middle of the fight where you’re being blasted w/ conditions and gives you a nice 2k heal.

you can use SY + CoP in conjuction with each other to reset.

Very closed minded.

people need to get off this “Healing is the only support”.

Guardians are amazing at condition removal.

Guardians are amazing at setting up the “the bomb”.

Guardians are amazing damage negation.

Guardians are amazing at group mobility (stability).

All of which are “Support Roles”.
Redefine how you think of support.

If you read again you might find that my point was that in relation to AH, MF could be more of a selfish trait since it effects can be maximized for the individual without any teammmates.

AH cant be maximized without mates and is actually pretty weak in a solobuild.

Maybe time to be a bit more open minded when reading other peoples posts ;-)

Regarding healing being the only form of support i can just agree, in wvw/tpvp its more often the worst kind of support and condition removal and stability are our strengths preferably combined with damage reflection and melee aoe.

And i do think of both MF and AH as support traits, they allow me to survive longer and allow me to be supportive for longer periods of time. Just as i find toughness to be a dps stat since it allows me to do dps for longer periods of time.

Its basically how you use stats/traits that determine their role on the battlefield, not the tooltip, and i use AH/toughness as support and other use them purely selfish.

The thing is that AH actually serves the selfish player worse than it serves me.

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

I’ll state the obvious again: AH in and of itself, does NOT support your group.

Please try to argue this fact some more.

You’re just splitting hairs. Call it whatever you want. If you’re alive, your supporting your team. AH keeps you alive. If ANYONE in your team is staying alive, they are supporting the team.

You do realize AH heals the team at the end, Right?

JJBigs.8456:

Obtena.7952:

Amins.3710:

I’ll state the obvious again: AH in and of itself, does NOT support your group.

Please try to argue this fact some more.

You’re just splitting hairs. Call it whatever you want. If you’re alive, your supporting your team. AH keeps you alive. If ANYONE in your team is staying alive, they are supporting the team.

You do realize AH heals the team at the end, Right?

AH does not heal the team end of.

I am also a very selfish Guardian who provides no buffs and no heals for any of my team mates because being DPS is a way of support in itself and I prefer playing that way as it fits my style. Therefore I am the pinnacle of not being a healer as a Guardian and this has caused no problems for anyone I play with because if something’s dead it can’t hurt your team.

Brutaly.6257:

AH cant be maximized without mates and is actually pretty weak in a solobuild.

Maybe time to be a bit more open minded when reading other peoples posts ;-)

Fair enough on the Maximization of AH through group play and it betting “weak”~er.

Being open minded goes hand in hand with the writers ability to succesfully convey thier ideas wholeheartedly.

IE: don’t steer.

Obtena.7952:

I think the underlying theme of the thread is that Guardians shouldn’t be pigeonholed into some role that doesn’t actually exist in the game from a traditional standpoint. It sets a bad expectation for players that aren’t aware of the class, thinking that a Guardian will save anything from complete failure or accepting modes of play that undervalue Guardians in the general psyche of the playerbase. Perhaps the whole AH/support discussion is a little sidetracked but still relevant to the original point.

Agreed.

Apparently you never ran Staff with Altruistic Healing. 3k+ heals on people with Regen/Boons/ and Healing Breeze. I keep my group alive with heals and CC in WvW all the time. Sure there are actually no ‘real’ healers, but this is what we got to work with and I’d call giving people health, healing.

3k+ healing with empower? really? how did that happen seeing as the 1.5k heal on other is not supposed to scale with anything.

Keeping group alive with healing breeze? do they all stand still to allow for maximum healing? which is around 3k per healing breeze which something like over 1000 healing power.

The amount you put into healing is not worth the return. There are better ways to support your team. You can still CC just as well without investing in healing at all.

Like I mentioned in the original post. If you want to stand in the back lines and heal, you are better off being a water Ele, their burst or sustained healing is far superior AND they can switch to ranged offence to support.

A healer Guardian who stands at the back throwing out rubbish amounts of healing is more of a waste then actually affective healing support.

If you want to heal, be a front line healer. Mace and shield. The amount of healing you can do with that is MUCH higher then standing in the back with a staff. Empower and AH is good for healing YOURSELF. The 1.5k healing at the end is just a bonus.

you do realize that you can position yourself in the frontline while weilding a staff no?

Iove.3902:

Apparently you never ran Staff with Altruistic Healing. 3k+ heals on people with Regen/Boons/ and Healing Breeze. I keep my group alive with heals and CC in WvW all the time. Sure there are actually no ‘real’ healers, but this is what we got to work with and I’d call giving people health, healing.

If I’m a guardian and I decide to play as close to a dedicated healer as I can, like staff, etc … then I can’t help but feel that I’m actually sending a message to my whole team that they aren’t capable enough to handle themselves in a dungeon or a fight and undervaluing their toolset. That’s my hang up and I know alot of people don’t care, as long as they get the content done. I’m certainly not trying to tell anyone how to play here. I just question the motives of a Guardian trying to play that role when it’s not necessary to do so due to the game’s design.

I just helped out guildies who couldn’t get through frac40, with my support build they never downed once.
It’s not even “full” support as I still have 40% crit or so.
100% protection duration, massive amounts of crazy team healing and 12might + Xmight from VoJ while being pratically invincible is much better than “Hey I just hit this mob for 4k, Warrior friend! I almost matched the final hit of HB! Hey did you just die due to no Protection? Sorry… I so wanted to deal some DPS”.

But I realize most people who play Guardians will just think they’re dealing good DPS etc etc.

So the “note to new Guardians” should rather be: You are not a DPS. A Ranger pet outdamages you. You give perma protection and crazy heals, do not dump them to hit mobs for nothing on glass gear.

I run Staff and Mace/Shield with Signet of Resolve, Hold the Line, and Purging Flames for condition removal. I do a large amount of healing in a full cleric seat with monk/water runes from a distance with staff, but I do also go up front with my mace/shield and heal/mitigate damage. I’m not always in the frontline, but I’m always facilitating and keeping my group up even from a distance.

HannaDeFreitas.4236:

I just helped out guildies who couldn’t get through frac40, with my support build they never downed once.
It’s not even “full” support as I still have 40% crit or so.
100% protection duration, massive amounts of crazy team healing and 12might + Xmight from VoJ while being pratically invincible is much better than “Hey I just hit this mob for 4k, Warrior friend! I almost matched the final hit of HB! Hey did you just die due to no Protection? Sorry… I so wanted to deal some DPS”.

But I realize most people who play Guardians will just think they’re dealing good DPS etc etc.

So the “note to new Guardians” should rather be: You are not a DPS. A Ranger pet outdamages you. You give perma protection and crazy heals, do not dump them to hit mobs for nothing on glass gear.

So true. I have around 90% chance to crit with fury and no food, 75% protection duration, 12might while being practically invincible. And I hit for 5.7k with autoattack.

Wish I could use tome of courage much more often.

HannaDeFreitas.4236:

I just helped out guildies who couldn’t get through frac40, with my support build they never downed once.
It’s not even “full” support as I still have 40% crit or so.
100% protection duration, massive amounts of crazy team healing and 12might + Xmight from VoJ while being pratically invincible is much better than “Hey I just hit this mob for 4k, Warrior friend! I almost matched the final hit of HB! Hey did you just die due to no Protection? Sorry… I so wanted to deal some DPS”.

But I realize most people who play Guardians will just think they’re dealing good DPS etc etc.

So the “note to new Guardians” should rather be: You are not a DPS. A Ranger pet outdamages you. You give perma protection and crazy heals, do not dump them to hit mobs for nothing on glass gear.

I’m a DPS Guardian and when is comes down to sustained damage I do more than all other classes but sure I don’t have that ‘oh kitten son you dead!’ burst attack but I can outlast other classes on my Guardian so sustained damage works just fine.

You play what you play and people who decide to support can go support and people who want to blow stuff up can go blow stuff up. Sure I don’t have protection up all the time and this crazy team healing but I have a few other tricks up my sleeve that you won’t.

Imo there are classes that do great [sustained] dps (ranger, warrior, elementalist, thief ) classes that give great team support frontline and backline (Guardian, Engineer) and classes that are amazing when it comes to increasing the effectiveness of a good team due to conditions etc (necromancer, mesmer).

The Guardian as a proffession is blessed by the highest armor rating base ingame but however has the lowest power / attack number and traits to up this dps. Their traits also reflect clearly they are a support oriented class with the most possibilities defensive and healing support wise for self and allies (check healingskills and protection skills from all professions). In the trait line of the guardian there are in fact not that many options to get a true dps machine as some might see the class.

A thief with good initiative regulation will out dps the guard, a warrior speccing in the right area’s will kick out around 15-20% more dps, and not just because they can build up might to 25 stacks with 100% critrate, then a full berserker build guard. The elementalist….. well we all know how much they can kick out a ranger same story with the right pet the sustained dps is beyond what the guardian proffesion can squeeze out.

Having 3 maxed characters of which one being a guardian and trying both berzerk builds and a full support I clearly saw the difference with my other 2 classes. The damage may seem nice untill you see / feel what the other “true” dps classes kick out.

It is kinda like saying your Toyota Celica is sooooo fast with the best handeling, it feels that way up to the point you get in a Ferrari 599 and taste a pureblood racecar.

imo "dps"guardians gimp out their proffession potential to do the dps the 4 otherclasses can get with a bad build. Dmg wise, when you max on it, you scale with the necro and mesmer but their skills at least increase the potential and effectiveness of their allies.

Tbh this thread was not about DPS VS support. It was for the fact that if you wanted to be a support guardian, the most effective place for you to be was in the frontline. Shouts have a limited range which means being at the back you are more then likely not affecting your entire team.

Want to be a healer? the mace is the weapon that can produce the highest HPS in our entire arsenal. Combine it with a shield and you have great CC skills as well as being able to grant protection for your front line melee people.

However, Since the Guardians balance and mechanics have changed slightly since the OP was written. The Guardian is actually now a viable healer. I’ve tested this out myself last night using a boon Guardian spec in full clerics (minus the trinkets)

The changes to the staff has made this weapon incredibly powerful in support. It is entirely possible to maintain 20 stacks of might and heal for a very good amount every 16 seconds (it now scales with healing power. my bad on the earlier post saying it didn’t)

The changes to staff now actually makes a stand back and heal Guardian quite viable. However, what you do in the time between the cooldown of your skills is still in question. Maybe you can tag and dodge to heal your team

Munrock.3092:

KensaiZen.3740:

…but if you want to be a trinity healer, go water ele.

Not sure this is sound advice… telling people this will just turn ineffective guardians into ineffective elementalists!

If you want to be a trinity healer, go different game.

Lol a water ele would be a terrible healer anyways. Possibly decent at best. It’s the same situation with the elementalist as with the guardian: doing one thing as an elementalist is only holding back your potential. Hell, it annoys me enough when someone decides to call himself a fire ele and stay in fire attunement all day. I understand the pain of switching attunements but a single attunement as an ele will get you nowhere.

/endofftopicrant

I think the main problem here is that the mindset too many people have latched onto when they entered GW2 is as follows:

“I WILL PLAY X PROFESSION TO FILL ROLE A, B, or C.”

It is without argument that there will be some professions that “out heal” others, but I feel like the entire agenda of healing in the game as a whole is that EVERY PROFESSION can do it. Every class has a self or group heal. If they don’t, they have traits to somehow compensate that, if they’re needed by the individual player.

Personally, I feel that everyone who states “I’m a tank” or “I’m a healer” hasn’t really fully grasped the concept that it is not necessary to be extremely one or the other in terms of filling a role. I’ve often noticed that being able to completely switch it up in mid combat is more celebrated than just banging your head in to try to push the most DPS or the most heals.

The fact is, “healer” isn’t even a role in the game. ANET specified numerous times that their form of “trinity” is Damage, Support, and Control. Warriors can “support” by applying boons or being so tough that damage and aggro aren’t so spread across a party (dungeon wise). Guardians can “support” by either healing with shouts, skills, condition removal or also applying strengthening boons. Elementalists can “support” in a similar fashion.

To assert that guardian players should not refer themselves as “healers” is too close-minded in my eyes. According to THIS GAME’S mechanics, anything that prevents death is, well, healing. Speeding up health ticks for a downed player is healing (daily -healer-, anyone?). Porting so that you’re further away from harm and giving people time to refresh cooldowns… Also a form of healing.

When all else fails, I refer to Webbie:

heal |h?l|
verb [ with obj. ]
• alleviate (a person’s distress or anguish): time can heal the pain of grief.
• correct or put right (an undesirable situation)

To all my fellow guardians: call yourself whatever you want; if you can adapt and somehow contribute to your party not wiping, then you’ve filled a role (or 2! :P)

So by this definition a warrior in full beserker gear who is pure dps is also a healer because he can kill the mobs faster to alleviate his team from potential damage a mob may cause.

Well done you with your dictionary

KensaiZen.3740:

So by this definition a warrior in full beserker gear who is pure dps is also a healer because he can kill the mobs faster to alleviate his team from potential damage a mob may cause.

Well done you with your dictionary

Nope, that would fill a damage role.

Well done you with your reading comprehension

Sometimes I miss the holy trinity (dps, healer, tank) so the lines do not get blurry on what is what.

I think the Healway build is probably the best support for groups. Shouts, dodge rolls for healing, and just need Tome of Courage and boom, decent front line fighter + aoe heals/boons.

Yes, AH is a selfish trait that helps maintain the guardian so that he can continue to support his group. Same with MF but more on the offensive side since they don’t really offer anything to the group other than dps(when rolling 3 meditations).

What’s sad is that it’s hard to play any moderate dps offensive build or higher without going 30 in to Valor due to the 300 toughness for dmg absorbtion, 30 crit dmg, and the traits that help keep you on your feet and increases crit or condition removal (purity, retributive armor, and AH/MF).

Sure, no one is saying you can’t put your points somewhere but it’s so beneficial to pick up 30 into valor which is hard to overlook. I think Anet created the pigeonhole themselves giving a lot of great traits in one tree line and letting the other trees bring not so beneficial bonuses. Without fully writing a page of this explanation, I think some re-balancing of our traits is in order to help mix up the tree. There is no need for nerfing. If anything buffing of other classes, traits, and weapons is where they should start and once they find a common medium begin tweaking everything very minutely.

Currently, right now, AH or MF are a crutch for the guardian because they are so beneficial for most situations. Again, not required, but they make life easier for the guardian based on Anet’s design allowing the guardian to keep himself up while supporting the rest of his group.

My only suggestion is to remove AH and MF and replace them with something different and increase our base health by 4-6k. I don’t want the same base health as a warrior but pretty close since I can’t bring the same dps as them.

But to add to this forum’s initial post…we are not dedicated healers that can sit at the back of the group and heal with our mediocre regen, symbols, etc. So get out there and hit something!

krismark.2617:

KensaiZen.3740:

So by this definition a warrior in full beserker gear who is pure dps is also a healer because he can kill the mobs faster to alleviate his team from potential damage a mob may cause.

Well done you with your dictionary

Nope, that would fill a damage role.

Well done you with your reading comprehension

To alleviate your team mates from further damage by bringing more Dps to kill mobs quicker.

Well done you.

JJBigs.8456:

Healing and Vitality are some of the worst stats a guardian can pick. They can do wayyy more valuable things than just heal.

Since when do Guardians that focus on Healing Power “only heal?” That’s the lie between the “Healing Power is bad” argument-by focusing on high Healing Power you are NOT “only healing”, and I have NEVER seen a “heals only” Guardian (nor do I think it’s really a plausible style to play, and for good reason). Don’t judge the player’s playstyle solely by his Healing Power gear-nobody has ever said that Guardian was a true healer, which role cannot be fulfilled in-game to the extent that an old Healer Monk could.

To be honest, AH and MF are working as intended, and should be left alone-let them buff the other traits so people dare use them more often. My “best” Guardian “Dungeon build” has only 20 Valor, and is a Mace and Shield/Staff/Concentration Build. I am not impressed by big damage numbers but by being effective in ways that are personally fun to me, while still being quite the benefit for the party (nothing wrong with shouts, BTW-they ARE awesome.) If players want to use AH/MF, that’s fine, as long as they don’t impose their views on others, but I am certain that any other good trait combo works as well-dare to experiment with builds of your own, rather than following everybody else’s common, “proven” build, even if they may be genuinely effective.

Now that i think about it, I heal more when i attk O-O

KensaiZen.3740:

Ok to clarify for people who obviously can’t read. Or jump to conclusions without actually reading the post.

I am not against healing. I am highlighting that as a guardian you are a front line support. I even outlined that the best healing weapon you have is a mace.

Guardians heal while fighting. They don’t hang back and try to use symbols and staff 2 for healing.

Now why don’t Pro Guardian players that want people to play how they want to play (even if it means they become alienated by their guild for being crap at what they do) tell us how they heal effectively without attacking at the same time?

Play how you want to play. That is a choice anyone has. Being picked for a party because you are good at what you do. That’s a choice you don’t have. L2P. Thank you.

I beg to differ, though there is a difference between making a healing build and making a support build. I made an effect healing/support build using the staff and ground targeted consecrations. Granted I do not use it anymore because I got the great sword I was after. But it worked and it was effective.

It kinda sounds like you want all guardians to be the same, but at the end of the day that is not the point of the game.

Healing support build with a staff? So what do you do when all your skills are on cool down? Consecrations have massive cooldowns. Empower has 16 seconds. Symbol heals for crap. How effective the build is is entirely dependent on perspective. A healing support shout build would be far more effective as the cool downs and boons are more beneficial to the team. Add in mace and shield as secondary set and you can maintain high healing output easily.

Anyone can play any way they want. However running around with no utilities and no armour using a lvl 1 weapon can be done too but it doesn’t mean to should be done.

Healing is not a guardians forte. Notice how we don’t have any healing combo fields? There is a reason for it.

If you want to be a dedicated healer. Role a ele. Better spike heals. Healing combine fields. Actually good at range.

And notice I say healer, not “support” some people need to learn the difference.

KensaiZen.3740:

Healing support build with a staff? So what do you do when all your skills are on cool down? Consecrations have massive cooldowns. Empower has 16 seconds. Symbol heals for crap. How effective the build is is entirely dependent on perspective. A healing support shout build would be far more effective as the cool downs and boons are more beneficial to the team. Add in mace and shield as secondary set and you can maintain high healing output easily.

Anyone can play any way they want. However running around with no utilities and no armour using a lvl 1 weapon can be done too but it doesn’t mean to should be done.

Healing is not a guardians forte. Notice how we don’t have any healing combo fields? There is a reason for it.

If you want to be a dedicated healer. Role a ele. Better spike heals. Healing combine fields. Actually good at range.

And notice I say healer, not “support” some people need to learn the difference.

Sorry, Elementalists are not healers either. There are no healers. Nobody that specces for healing is a Healer (the great misunderstanding.) There is NO issue about that-using healing gear is player preference, and doesn’t mean the player will “only heal.”

Your "anyone can say “play how you want” and use white weapons" is close-minded, and stated to avoid the real issue at hand (I do not mean to offend, but that’s how it comes accross.)

Also, having used both shouts and consecrations since headstart, a Consecration only build is quite viable, though it tends to be build specific and thus not common (which is fine.) When Consecrations are in cooldown there’s plenty to do, and only one of them has a rather prohibitive cooldown. Curing conditions as well as providing a huge area with stability is quite the “boon” for allies, not to mention Wall of Reflection is quite the asset for much of the game’s content (shouts are good, just not the only way to play; else why do we not only have those shouts available?)

Granted, you may be used to a “healing support shout build” as you call it, and that’s fine. That works. I’ve used so many variations of it. But that doesn’t mean the other options do not work well in that context as well.

Finally, learn to play =/= play the way I do. There’s too much “I am right, you are wrong” in this game, to be honest, when there are many solutions to a problem, and myriads of ways to enjoy GW2.

Ok point of the OP. Guardians are not healers.

Healers stand back and heal.

“There is NO issue about that-using healing gear is player preference, and doesn’t mean the player will “only heal.”

There is no issue with people using healing gear or spec for support and playing support. Funnily enough I have come accross players who just hang back and use symbols and empower when in dungeons and even in WvW.

Those who wan’t to play this way can play this way. They will just be considered rubbish and after a few dungeons, will never find a decent party and will have to PUG with people who don’t know them.

Dungeons are group based. It is not about selfish play style
WvW is group based. It is not about selfish play style (if you play selfish in WvW your one of the reasons why your server does crap)
SPvP and TPvP group based. Your definitely not finding a good party who will take you in TPvP. SPvP, good luck with that and being a dedicated healer.
PvE… yeah sure go knock yourself out and be a dedicated healer.

I am not telling people to play the way I do. I am saying don’t be an idiot and gimp yourself and your team by choosing to be a dedicated back line healer when your class isn’t actually built to do it.

Sure there are a myriad ways to enjoy GW2. And some of these ways will likely make you end up playing by yourself. That’s a lot of fun in an MMO.

Omg, how can this thread continued for so long! L O L!

Dedicated Supportive/Healer Build is just for lazy people that are too used to trinity based MMO.

I am with the same wavelength with KensaiZen since my first reply on this post. I can’t stop you from using Healer build but….Yeah, healer build sucks. Its trash, useless. Sorry if you’re offended.

Here’s a tip to some of the pugs which are still confuse:

Get a Hammer, 20% cool down, ask any players that gives water field, keep that (2), there, you got your kitten healing and DAMAGE on the same time. I super love to go on dungeon with Ele and ranger, i super love Ranger’s healing spring, 3 Aoe Healing thats too imbalance IMO. Try this in CoF path 2, its so much fun, rather than being with these boring warrior. COMBO is the best to abuse in this game, not frequent tapping “heal, heal heal” without thinking. Secret? Use your skill at the right timing!

Supportive/Healer Build? Nah, “aint nobody got time for that!” Hahahahahha

yLoon.5289:

Omg, how can this thread continued for so long! L O L!

Dedicated Supportive/Healer Build is just for lazy people that are too used to trinity based MMO.

I am with the same wavelength with KensaiZen since my first reply on this post. I can’t stop you from using Healer build but….Yeah, healer build sucks. Its trash, useless. Sorry if you’re offended.

Here’s a tip to some of the pugs which are still confuse:

Get a Hammer, 20% cool down, ask any players that gives water field, keep that (2), there, you got your kitten healing and DAMAGE on the same time. I super love to go on dungeon with Ele and ranger, i super love Ranger’s healing spring, 3 Aoe Healing thats too imbalance IMO. Try this in CoF path 2, its so much fun, rather than being with these boring warrior. COMBO is the best to abuse in this game, not frequent tapping “heal, heal heal” without thinking. Secret? Use your skill at the right timing!

Supportive/Healer Build? Nah, “aint nobody got time for that!” Hahahahahha

Supportive/healer builds are quite viable, they just take more work than shout/boon/meditation builds.

You cannot be static as a staff support guardian, you need to time you consecrations right make sure you are positioned correctly to get the full effect of your skills. Not to mention know the right time to use your elite.

The stigma comes from people thinking that Guardians are monks and try to spam these moves with no finesse. Staff guardians are not built for this.

I easily outheal my ele on guardian running mace/shield+staff. It has the boon support it needs, with a little cc (sanctuary + line) and the healing is amazing. Guardian is stacked with healing skills, I don’t know why people think an ele heals better… maybe explore the sigils a bit more and realize selfless daring has no icd (as opposed to the 10s icd on evasive arcana).

Healing is viable. The kind you see Kensei, the ones that stand in the back with a staff are not healers. A supporting heal guardian uses both weapons and rotates between heals on given up time. Starting with a staff to stack might and apply necessary touch up heals then swapping to shield/mace to apply protection and regen. Then swapping back to staff to reapply the might and other necssary boons. Most of the time these boons can last till the next application. If the symbol placements are good and dodges expended properly you can sustain a group 90%+ for a long time without using any real emergency skills. Also these people you’re healing have a heal themselves usually saved for emergencies therefore you can retain big on spot heals. Dunno i’ve pugged and played with guildmates and the result is usually the same, twice as nice if another guardian is present or elementalist. And they don’t even have to be support either..

guardians can share two aegis’s with allies that when they end can heal and give retaliation. Add in any other type of healing you guys got and you got yourself a sweet combat healer. Kinda like my D/D elementalist healer

Dokt.5729:

Healing is viable. The kind you see Kensei, the ones that stand in the back with a staff are not healers. A supporting heal guardian uses both weapons and rotates between heals on given up time. Starting with a staff to stack might and apply necessary touch up heals then swapping to shield/mace to apply protection and regen. Then swapping back to staff to reapply the might and other necssary boons. Most of the time these boons can last till the next application. If the symbol placements are good and dodges expended properly you can sustain a group 90%+ for a long time without using any real emergency skills. Also these people you’re healing have a heal themselves usually saved for emergencies therefore you can retain big on spot heals. Dunno i’ve pugged and played with guildmates and the result is usually the same, twice as nice if another guardian is present or elementalist. And they don’t even have to be support either..

Sadly, those that I saw weren’t actually support guards. I also play a boon/heal guard so I am aware of the play style.

When you see someone standing over 900 range away trying to heal the group with staff 2 3 4. Its an auto face palm.

I’m with KensaiZen, despite the fact that his rant may have been a bit over the top. Lol

The main focus of this thread was to get this main point across to new players: TRINITY BUILDS DO NOT WORK IN THIS GAME

As such, typical trinity playstyles will not work either. Focusing on doing nothing else but healing will cause your role to be operating at a minimal level. On the other hand, using a build that may be healing focused while going all out on your enemies does happen to work.

I also don’t understand why people still try to tank in this game. Sure, you can have a tanky build that can take a bit more damage and such, but since when has anyone been able to pull aggro on multiple enemies and sustain damage for the group?

I don’t think you know what is meant by trinity and what the developers are trying to avoid.

They’re trying to avoid one healer in a group of 5 just doing heals, and one tank just tanking, and 3 DPS from WoW.

To avoid this, they’ve not given taunts, so the whole team must work together to get aggro on one target. And they’ve given fairly tame support and healing..meaning that if you want signifcant heals/buffs multiple toons will have to work together.

They didn’t just try to replace trinity with duo-inity (glass cannons and bunkers)…although to some degree they’ve failed and that’s what we’re getting. Hopefully they’ll be able to move towards more than just mashing attack patterns and kiting in this game as it grows…

AH is not a support ability, but for 1 trait it’s very powerful (practically mandatory). It effectively doubles the possible amount of healing you can put on yourself which makes you more survivable.

Zosk.5609:

They didn’t just try to replace trinity with duo-inity (glass cannons and bunkers)…although to some degree they’ve failed and that’s what we’re getting. Hopefully they’ll be able to move towards more than just mashing attack patterns and kiting in this game as it grows…

No, they made it so you can build your class however you want.

Glass builds and bunkers are just two extremes, but glass builds counter bunkers. A full glass cannon Thief can rip through a bunker Guardian or Warrior like they’re wearing a t-shirt.

Leave that job to a Water Elementalist! Guardians are primarily condition removal, boons and the occasional Ressurrection spell. You can make an excellent Buffer, but you’ll not want to aim above 1k in the healing department, as you would lose too much to do so. Just aim for 1k healing and move on.

HannaDeFreitas.4236:

I just helped out guildies who couldn’t get through frac40, with my support build they never downed once.
It’s not even “full” support as I still have 40% crit or so.
100% protection duration, massive amounts of crazy team healing and 12might + Xmight from VoJ while being pratically invincible is much better than “Hey I just hit this mob for 4k, Warrior friend! I almost matched the final hit of HB! Hey did you just die due to no Protection? Sorry… I so wanted to deal some DPS”.

But I realize most people who play Guardians will just think they’re dealing good DPS etc etc.

So the “note to new Guardians” should rather be: You are not a DPS. A Ranger pet outdamages you. You give perma protection and crazy heals, do not dump them to hit mobs for nothing on glass gear.

You’re exaggerating quite a bit. Ranger pets do not outdps a guardian even when they manage to stay alive (I know, I often play a beastmaster spec on my ranger). I agree that no guardian should be wearing all zerker gear as this is just a recipe for disaster, but guardians can pull off great dps numbers while still mixing in survivability traits. Honestly, guardians have some of the best dps in the game, especially with AoE.

People just need to remove their glass cannon thief and warrior blinders. Not to mention you’ll find those glass cannon thieves and warriors in a downstate a lot faster than guardians which means they are doing no dps.