Guild Wars 2

A 1 sec cd on a 5 sec boon gives you 4 stacks maximum if you keep up 2 hits/sec (w 50% crit) making this trait useless for guards. If my team already had a pit party and cooked us up some might bombs then I’m only gonna be crashing their party; making it more useless. Also, spec’ing my war phalanx drops his dps by like 40% so I would really like guard to pick this up. It seems you did too but the trait is broken.

i’ll agree, only cuz guards are far from being broken w/ respect to might stackings and even w/o a cd i don’t think it’d be borked.

but it ain’t gonna haps

Sallouce.1395:

A 1 sec cd on a 5 sec boon gives you 4 stacks maximum if you keep up 2 hits/sec (w 50% crit) making this trait useless for guards. If my team already had a pit party and cooked us up some might bombs then I’m only gonna be crashing their party; making it more useless. Also, spec’ing my war phalanx drops his dps by like 40% so I would really like guard to pick this up. It seems you did too but the trait is broken.

Is PS war really that big of a hit now? I was under the impression it got a HUGE dps boost and wasn’t nearly the DPS loss it was before.

That said, I totally agree, Empowering Might has always been pretty pitiful, the only reason I ever grab it is if I have nothing else beneficial and I’m using Honor anyways so might as well help a PS war.

Looking through some of the guardian and warrior traits ive realized that a few of the might stacking ones are similar.

The only thing I dont like is the fact that the warrior ones like Shield Master, and phalanx strength have no ICD, while the guardians ones like Might of the protector and empowering might do.

I understand that might of the protector has a longer duration and gives two stacks of might instead of 1 like shield master, however warrior shield has a lower cooldown (24 seconds when traited) than our aegis reapplication or the ability to use shelter a second time.

I understand that people will say “but guardian has more sources of block than warriors” but its still annoying when I use to use shelter specifically when I was expecting burst to build up might.

Anyway this was just my rant about Guardian ICD and warriors lack of ICD.

^ Pretty much this. Heaven forbid that a defensive AH bunker with low damage potential is able to stack might for his team and get trickle heals for it! There’s just no valid excuse for giving us ICDs for traits that are virtually identical to warrior traits without ICDs. Warrior already gets that kind of sustain without even having to hit or block anything to begin with.

merchantchuck.4875:

Looking through some of the guardian and warrior traits ive realized that a few of the might stacking ones are similar.

The only thing I dont like is the fact that the warrior ones like Shield Master, and phalanx strength have no ICD, while the guardians ones like Might of the protector and empowering might do.

I understand that might of the protector has a longer duration and gives two stacks of might instead of 1 like shield master, however warrior shield has a lower cooldown (24 seconds when traited) than our aegis reapplication or the ability to use shelter a second time.

I understand that people will say “but guardian has more sources of block than warriors” but its still annoying when I use to use shelter specifically when I was expecting burst to build up might.

Anyway this was just my rant about Guardian ICD and warriors lack of ICD.

Waaaaaaaaaay back in the day when AH hammer guards were still a thing, might of the protector had no ICD. Watching my might stacks go from 0-25 in the span of one shelter pop was hilarious and awesome at the same time.

Quarktastic.1027:

merchantchuck.4875:

Looking through some of the guardian and warrior traits ive realized that a few of the might stacking ones are similar.

The only thing I dont like is the fact that the warrior ones like Shield Master, and phalanx strength have no ICD, while the guardians ones like Might of the protector and empowering might do.

I understand that might of the protector has a longer duration and gives two stacks of might instead of 1 like shield master, however warrior shield has a lower cooldown (24 seconds when traited) than our aegis reapplication or the ability to use shelter a second time.

I understand that people will say “but guardian has more sources of block than warriors” but its still annoying when I use to use shelter specifically when I was expecting burst to build up might.

Anyway this was just my rant about Guardian ICD and warriors lack of ICD.

Waaaaaaaaaay back in the day when AH hammer guards were still a thing, might of the protector had no ICD. Watching my might stacks go from 0-25 in the span of one shelter pop was hilarious and awesome at the same time.

Ya i loved using it for that reason as well. Then they slapped ICD on it and I was like WTF anet -_-

MotP is free as long as you’re using Valor. Shield Master has competition (and might require a shield? Can’t remember). Phalanx Strength also works differently than EM, which is basically the GS trait baked in, but also works with any weapon. EM having an icd is understandable when PS requires 2 trait lines and a GS to work. EM requires much less.

I wouldn’t be opposed to making EM more streamlined however. As for MotP and Amplified Wrath, people were destroying themselves with 5k burn ticks from hitting shelters with the wrong skills. I don’t think we’d want guardians to be balanced around that kind of power.

Well burning really needs to be toned down across the board if you ask me, but if someone isn’t paying attention and doesn’t cancel the attack in question, shouldn’t it be fair that they actually get punished for it?

Let’s say a condi guardian is being focused. As part of the synchronized attack, you as a Ranger pop Rapid Fire. While the arrows are still in the air, the guardian pops shelter and instantly gets to 25 might. You cannot stop these arrows from flying, and everyone in the coordinated attack is taking 552 damage per tick from burning which is not unreasonable with carrion and Amplified Wrath (no vuln, assuming starting value of 1500 condi). If we assume each teammate gets at least 5 stacks on them, that’s 2761 each at least, but more is certainly likely. Guardian runes would double the stacks, which would then hit the 5k+ mark. All this damage from a healing skill, which means not only are you not damaging him, but he’s dealing significant damage to your entire team, much of it potentially unavoidable between reflexes, input lag, and in-flight projectiles.

Not only would this make Shelter the obvious and overshadowing choice, but it would completely destroy coordinated group play when the situation arose. You know this would explode in popularity to have that kind of damage:healing power.

If it had no CD it could lead to a ton of might stacking extremely fast which in turn could make dps spike insane.

A much better solution would be to
1: Increase the number of might stacks applied (say 2)
or
2: Increase the duration of the might applied to say 8-10 seconds base.

I would welcome a buff to empowering might. Reducing/deleting the ICD might be one option. I don’t think, that this would lead to a big dps spike. Normally your attacks take about 0.5 s so you could get ten stacks of might when attacking 1 target with 100% critical hitchance and without any +% boon duration. This i find absolutly reasonable. Counting in that most of the attacks are cleaving one could argue that 30 stacks would be possible (but still with 100% critchance). So when your are investing so much effort to get to 100% critchance you are already missing out on buffs to strength and it is okay.
But of course buffing the number of stacks or duration is also fine for me. Increasing duration might be best when you don’t want to buff AH… .

Ghotistyx.6942:

Let’s say a condi guardian is being focused. As part of the synchronized attack, you as a Ranger pop Rapid Fire. While the arrows are still in the air, the guardian pops shelter and instantly gets to 25 might. You cannot stop these arrows from flying, and everyone in the coordinated attack is taking 552 damage per tick from burning which is not unreasonable with carrion and Amplified Wrath (no vuln, assuming starting value of 1500 condi). If we assume each teammate gets at least 5 stacks on them, that’s 2761 each at least, but more is certainly likely. Guardian runes would double the stacks, which would then hit the 5k+ mark. All this damage from a healing skill, which means not only are you not damaging him, but he’s dealing significant damage to your entire team, much of it potentially unavoidable between reflexes, input lag, and in-flight projectiles.

Not only would this make Shelter the obvious and overshadowing choice, but it would completely destroy coordinated group play when the situation arose. You know this would explode in popularity to have that kind of damage:healing power.

1. Shelter already has been the “obvious and overshadowing choice”, that’s absolutely nothing new. The fact that it’s still the go-to heal after the block proc nerfs is more of a sign that our other heal skills are just significantly worse than it is anything else.

2. Burn on block only affects the enemy directly attacking the guardian. It’s not an AoE that spreads to nearby opponents, and Shelter is not a reflect, so I don’t really understand how a single Ranger could kill his entire team just by shooting an entire Rapid Fire into it.

3. The only time a Guardian could reach 25 stacks of might with a 2 second block would be if he’s being outnumbered and focused, in which scenario there’s really no reason that he shouldn’t be dead before he gets a chance to make use of all that might. If he manages to kill all of you just because of that, then that’s not the Guardian being too strong, that’s your team being really bad. This is exactly how it was before, and it was never a major issue.

4. A Guardian could just as easily put up a Wall of Reflection while the Ranger is channeling Rapid Fire, which would do much more harm than burn on block. It’s simple counterplay. A smart Ranger would stop firing. A dumb one wouldn’t, and would suffer for being dumb.

5. Burn on block is not going to be the determining factor in burn guardian being too strong, as there are already numerous ways to stack burns proactively, which is much more of a threat than reactive burn application. Burn on block relies on opponents essentially hurting themselves, so anyone who gets punished enough for it to be an issue really has no one to blame but himself.

6. lol condi Guardian with Guardian runes, good one.

The point is that reactive countermeasures are only as much of a threat as the opponent makes it. Chances are really slim that you’ll lose to a Guardian exclusively because you mindlessly fired into a channeled block (which is also his heal skill, that you should maybe be able to guess that he’ll use when he’s low on health) as opposed to simply being outplayed. If that’s really the deciding factor in a fight, then you have no one to blame but yourself for the loss.

1. The disparity between shelter and other heals has been lessened with the update. Without it, it would widen the gap far beyond what it was originally.

2/3. If you noticed, I mentioned your team was focusing the guardian. It only takes kittens from each teammate to reach 25 stacks, which also means each teammate is taking 5 burn stacks (10 with guardian runes, literally doubling damage) that they caused themselves. It’s not unreasonable to have 5 players hit 5 times, or even 4 players hitting 7.

4. Yes, but this is a burn guardian, and WoR would not proc might, burning, and it also isn’t a healing skill. WoR used in that situation would actually be a “valid” use. Likewise, you can dodge or avoid the damage from reflected projectiles, but you cannot avoid the burn damage from blocked projectiles, especially when they’re already airborne.

5. Burn/might on block isn’t the determining factor in whether burn guardian is op, that’s true. However, it would be the determining factor in shelter being too powerful without the icd on traits. Between reflexes, lag, or whatever other factors, much of the potential damage is unavoidable. You will be taking non-insignificant damage while he negates your burst. The duration is so short it almost isn’t even worth cleansing, but if you do, it leaves the more proactive sources to wreak havoc.

6. Reference 2/3. Guardian runes would double burn stacks from block while keeping a very short duration. It is something that could’ve been built around.

I mean think about it. What would happen if warriors could deal 5-10k aoe damage with healing signet? Or elementalists with their signet? It’s not something that should be in the game. And the solution isn’t too just nerf burning either. Now you get a greater benefit from staggering your blocks instead of relying on shelter to turn you into a god. Shelter still negates the burst, it just doesn’t kill people with 5k burn ticks.

Jerus.4350:

Sallouce.1395:

A 1 sec cd on a 5 sec boon gives you 4 stacks maximum if you keep up 2 hits/sec (w 50% crit) making this trait useless for guards. If my team already had a pit party and cooked us up some might bombs then I’m only gonna be crashing their party; making it more useless. Also, spec’ing my war phalanx drops his dps by like 40% so I would really like guard to pick this up. It seems you did too but the trait is broken.

Is PS war really that big of a hit now? I was under the impression it got a HUGE dps boost and wasn’t nearly the DPS loss it was before.

Yes I think it is, I’m always being asked if I am running PS, stacking too much work now? Anyway before the update people knew a PS war pretty much meant a weak tank with no healing abilities but now its a little more mainstream. But dps wise my last hits go from low 20s to low 30s, extra bleeding/condi bonuses, and crit levels with my unique spec (not to mention it takes timing and is actually fun.) 90% of the time there is 2 or more wars in the group and its like we have this primary war spec and secondary war specs; I just think synergy should be cross class not cross specs, at least the more powerful ones.

Shelter only killed people that were dumb enough to keep attacking the Guardian using it. If stacking might for every hit without an ICD is such a big deal, then why does the Warrior, who already can stack plenty more might on his own than a Guardian without having to rely on the enemy, get the same might on block, but doesn’t have to have it wrecked by a limiting ICD?

Block procs from Shelter should not be the determining factor in a fight, and if it is, then it’s your own kitten fault and you deserve to lose for it. It’s nothing like a Warrior dealing 5-10k with his heal skill. It’s much closer to an Ele using Magnetic Aura, and you being enough of an idiot to try to Killshot through it.

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

Black Box.9312:

Well burning really needs to be toned down across the board if you ask me, but if someone isn’t paying attention and doesn’t cancel the attack in question, shouldn’t it be fair that they actually get punished for it?

If burns needs to get toned down then conditions cleanses need to get toned down in compensation.

I don’t agree that the cooldown should be removed, but instead, the duration increased. The problem is AH.

Warriors alone can keep up a permanent 25 might stack to the party. I think that 8 seconds would be enough to this trait to be more viable, mainly considering that we have harder access to boon duration after the specialization patch.

Overall, its only usage is to heal yourself with AH.

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

I really don’t get why this is so difficult to understand. It will only kill you if you continue to proc it. It’s essentially an indirect way of killing yourself. If you’re ending up downed from 100% because of a 2 second block, then you just really need to l2p.

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

“Endure Pain” “Signet of Stone”
4 and 6 sec invulns, in which you are able to attack, heal, kyte, etc.
but yeah a heal of 4,5k and a few burn stacks is op, wtf

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Well burning really needs to be toned down across the board if you ask me, but if someone isn’t paying attention and doesn’t cancel the attack in question, shouldn’t it be fair that they actually get punished for it?

If burns needs to get toned down then conditions cleanses need to get toned down in compensation.

yeah because cleanses are so powerfull against condi classes
you clenes, condis are re-applied, skill on CD
aha..

Black Box.9312:

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

I really don’t get why this is so difficult to understand. It will only kill you if you continue to proc it. It’s essentially an indirect way of killing yourself. If you’re ending up downed from 100% because of a 2 second block, then you just really need to l2p.

I don’t understand why you think its so difficult to understand. Its like performing an an association test where I show you pictures of fruits, and you only response is “stop attacking”.

starlinvf.1358:

Black Box.9312:

starlinvf.1358:

DHawk.2687:

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s a difference in trying to killshot through a magnetic aura without Unblockable, and firing a killshot only to have a magnetic aura put up before you can cancel or react.

The warrior in your example doesn’t cause damage with his blocks. When burning didn’t stack intensity, this was also fine, because even though you could stack might to 25, burning was only ever one flat amount of damage. It was only once you could stack burning in intensity that Shelter alone was able to get 5k burn ticks on people. It was the sum of the potential parts that forced the change, not cherry picked portions. Shelter still works as it always has, it’s just the synergy with 2 traits that was affected.

that doesn’t change the fact, that the burn tics can be avoided by just canceling your attack, I mean everyone knows how shelter looks like, just stop attacking, as soon as it says block once, if you weren’t able to see he is triggering shelter (since he is low health… duh) just stop attacking after you see the first “Block”
this is not a balancing issue
it’s simply being aware of what your enemy is doing

You’re dodging the real issue. Its not that reactions don’t exist. Its that the trait combination (capable on only one class mind you) can potentially kill all their attackers by activating one skill that also makes them momentarily invulnerable.

If you honestly believe this is balanced, then we NEED this on all other classes, as they are now severely under performing across the board if this is true.

I really don’t get why this is so difficult to understand. It will only kill you if you continue to proc it. It’s essentially an indirect way of killing yourself. If you’re ending up downed from 100% because of a 2 second block, then you just really need to l2p.

I don’t understand why you think its so difficult to understand. Its like performing an an association test where I show you pictures of fruits, and you only response is “stop attacking”.

Except instead of pictures of fruits, it’s a problem of what to do if blocking hurts you, and my answer is the exact solution to the problem.