Guild Wars 2

note
added first build for WvW, PvE and Hearth of the mists. Now i’m working on a more offensive build which can aslo use the “zero damage” formula.

What’s the aim of this project?
Simply, as title, don’t worry about enemy attacks because our HP will be always full letting us go drink a coffee. This does not mean anymore that we take 0 damage but simply that we gain more HP than we can lose under enemy attack.

In order to get so we need to focus on 3 points:

1. toughness
2. protection
3. regeneration

also really important (turned out after some discussion here) is to understand how damage calculation works and how damage reducers influence it.

skill damage= power * skill coefficient * weapon damage / enemy armor
skill damage with modifiers= (skill damage / enemy armor ) * (1-x-y-z )
where x, y and z are damage reducers like protection and abilities

How to get the best damage reduction
as everyone can find from the above formula hp gain scales better than armor infact:

X hp = ((skill damage) / target armor ) * (damage reducers)
this formula shows how many power is needed in order to overcome our damage reducers + healing per sec and deal effective damage

by using few numbers, for a direct comparison you get better results with more hp per sec than with more armor. Just one:

200hp = ((skill damage) / 3000 ) * (1-0.33)
-> with 100 more hp/sec and 100 less armor -> 1.298.507 skill damage required
-> with 100 more armor and 100 less hp sec -> 462.686 skill damage required

TRAITS
in order to get max damage reduction from traits we need:
30 points in valor -> extra toughness and trait
30 points in honor -> extra vitality and shout cd + heals + cond removals
10 points in virtues -> 10% extra boon duration + 25% retailation duration

UTILITIES
healing skill: shelter (the best in slot)

1. utility: signet of judgment (-10% damage)
2. utility: old the line!: for protection (it’s a must to keep up protection)
3. utility: save yourselves!: for protection (as above)
4. elite: tome of courage (for 20sec protection!)

WEAPONS
mace/shield: is the best set in order to keep up regen and protection at the same time
hammer: is the best in slot of course because of protection spam
scepter/focus: very good because of range, cc and more ways to block
greatsword: very strong if considering the great combo “0 damage + perma retailation”
staff: very usefull for “0 damage + healing”

Conclusion and prototype of build (i want to underline that this build is only to show that 0 damage is possible and needs more work in order to be implemented)

note
check in page 2 for Bunket anti-nuke build; the following one is only an example
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeSlUgKCnFyvDm4ERWhVi9AjfsjXPSoEZIA-jEzAYMBRqBIFCiIAkAX0aWMg1twWdjW5NIqZioatNmJvIa1yAYOGA-w

to get a 100% damage reduction from toughness + protection + damage reducers is impossible but we can get it “in theory” with damage reduction + heals per sec

for example this build allows us to get

hp per sec:
regeneration 255hp
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * 1000) = 144hp
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * 1000) = 182hp
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * 1000) = 79hp
mango pie 85hp
total: 745hp per sec (without considering heals, rolls and elite)
adding that to the above formula give us:
754hp = ((skill damage)/ 3468 ) (0.57) -> skill damage= 4587494.7
enemy power= 4381*

so the only way for enemies to lower our HP is to get >4381 power which is impossible to reach (i suppose).

That’s all. I’m waiting for constructive comments and feedback.

And you are sure that damage reduction stacks additively instead of multiplicatively? Because otherwise, this build will fail spectacularly and I can’t imagine that no one would have found out about an invulnerable build if it was possible.

I don’t have any interest in a guardian built like this, but a couple quick things. Traited signet is 15% dmg reduction. Also, I think toughness takes off damage first, then protection and the signet. So with ~50% dmg reduction from toughness a 1000 hp hit would be 500 dmg, then the signet and protection’s 45% reduction would kick in, making it 225 dmg. Finally, hammer with some boon duration and longer symbols, or just straight boon duration will give you 100% protection uptime so you may not need all those other protection givers if you go that way.

Protection (from hammer), signet, and toughness from valor (and the trait for +150 to you and allies) is my current defense boosting technique for my zerker guard in dungeons. Seems to be working well.

This is all speculation using additive percentages as your evidence. If damage reduction is all additive, you would be right. Armor (and Toughness) is not a percentage. Damage is calculated as such. There isn’t a true percentage reduced from Armor but rather an amount reduced. If you and your target have 1:1 Armor/Attack, you could (in theory) take no damage. As soon as that target raises the Attack value (through Might, high skill coefficients, etc.), you will take damage.

There is no 100% damage reduction point. The damage reduction effects (Protection and Signet of Judgment) take effect after the initial damage reduction has occured. If the two are additive, you’ll reduce up to 45% of the remaining damage you would take. If you reduce an attack by 50% through Armor alone, you’ll take around 27.5% damage after all reducing has occured. If multiplicative, 29.48%.

What are you talking about guys?
@CptAurellian: damage reduction is additively
@DeadWater: not sure of this… but also if them stacks separately it would be a great reduction… i’m looking for more information and perfect inscription adds +20% passive effect from sigil so 10% + 2% not 15%.
@Viralseed: toughness influence max armor infact total armo is 3786 so you have to consider division for this huge number then (not sure of this) add another 45% damage reduction.

ps: oh! i finded this formula on gw2 wiki

Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)

so divisor must be like
3786 * (12 + 33)% = 5489 armor

Just some insight as well. The calculator you are using doesn’t factor Strength in Numbers. You can add another 150 to the total or 175 if you substitute a rune for a different Toughness rune.

Viralseed.9362:

Just some insight as well. The calculator you are using doesn’t factor Strength in Numbers. You can add another 150 to the total or 175 if you substitute a rune for a different Toughness rune.

already added manually those 150 more toughness

Kjeldoran.3849:

Viralseed.9362:

Just some insight as well. The calculator you are using doesn’t factor Strength in Numbers. You can add another 150 to the total or 175 if you substitute a rune for a different Toughness rune.

already added manually those 150 more toughness

Well it would appear that you did. My mistake then. I still would like to see some testing to see how damage reduction factors.

I don’t think this is remotely useful in real application, but just in the interests of maxing your toughness, a couple of points:

Switch focus for shield and add Honourable Shield instead of Retributive Armor ( toughness = 2801 ) – The Shield is also another source of Protection.

Switch Dolyak runes for Runes of Mercy and you’ll have 3201 toughness while you are res’ing allies.

Activating Tome of Courage doesn’t just give you Protection, but also boosts your base toughness by 50% – I think that would mean a toughness of 4081 while it’s active… but I may be calculating that wrong

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens

Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

Yes, but in the interest of the build (0/30/30/10/0), there is little Boon Duration. Shield’s Protection is only 5 seconds. You would have to finish a combo with Hammer, switch weapons, and most likely waste off Hold the Line! just to maintain Protection before you can switch back to Hammer. I thought of the same thing myself but for the theoretical 100% reduction, using Shield is impractical.

well the build itself is impractical, so I wasn’t really looking at it from a lost utility perspective

Its impossible, not even practical.

Daecollo.9578:

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

I don t tink that this process is right… just look on the wiki

Kjeldoran.3849:

Daecollo.9578:

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

I don t tink that this process is right… just look on the wiki

Tell me how the math works then?

Kjeldoran.3849:

ps: oh! i finded this formula on gw2 wiki

Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)

Where was that on the wiki?

From what I remember from the wiki Damage description: positive modifiers ( like crit and traited percentage damage increases ) are calculated after base damage, in other words applied after your armor reduction

Damage reduction is multiplicative. It’s not possible to bring your damage received to 0. Daecollo as it right.

Kjeldoran.3849:

toughness: 2739 = -53.52% damage
total reduction: 96.52% damage

Fixing your math:

(1-0.5352)(1-0.33)(1-0.12) = 0.274

You’ll end up taking 27.4% of the original damage you would “normally” take, which is pretty impressive, but clearly not 100% damage reduction.

If you went with knight’s everything, slapped on a shield and traited for maximum toughness, you could get pretty close to 80% damage reduction.

Knox.8962:

Kjeldoran.3849:

toughness: 2739 = -53.52% damage
total reduction: 96.52% damage

Fixing your math:

(1-0.5352)(1-0.33)(1-0.12) = 0.274

You’ll end up taking 27.4% of the original damage you would “normally” take, which is pretty impressive, but clearly not 100% damage reduction.

If you went with knight’s everything, slapped on a shield and traited for maximum toughness, you could get pretty close to 80% damage reduction.

A quick calculation and I think 81.75% damage reduction is possible, if ( big if ):

Max Damage Reduction

Direct Damage Reduction = (2566 Base Toughness Armour Accessories Food etc + 50% from active Tome of Courage buff + 170 Warrior Banner of Defense + 400 Rune of Mercy #2 effect + 150 Strength In Number + 90 Honourable Shield) * (33% Protection) * (12% Signet of Judgement) = 81.75%

or 69.04% before Protection and Signet of Judgement.

That’s about 59205 effective health.

Interestingly if you use Soldier’s gear and trinkets then you get 87526 effective.

academic of course.

This is a PvE build or a WvW build?

I have serious reservations concerning the use of Save Yourself, even at the beginning of a battle because in the heat of a battle, especially running against spike hammers and necro heavy zergs, one untimely use of Save Yourself without having Contemplation of Purity or some such other conditions cleanser used right after will simply melt your Guardian to the ground in a heartbeat, bet.

Rigel.3092:

This is a PvE build or a WvW build?

I have serious reservations concerning the use of Save Yourself, even at the beginning of a battle because in the heat of a battle, especially running against spike hammers and necro heavy zergs, one untimely use of Save Yourself without having Contemplation of Purity or some such other conditions cleanser used right after will simply melt your Guardian to the ground in a heartbeat, bet.

Word. I actually had this happen to me last night. I wasn’t sure what I did or was thinking but I charged in and hit Save Yourself. I recall thinking to myself after.

“That was rather stupid” /palmToforehead

Crapgame.6519:

Rigel.3092:

This is a PvE build or a WvW build?

I have serious reservations concerning the use of Save Yourself, even at the beginning of a battle because in the heat of a battle, especially running against spike hammers and necro heavy zergs, one untimely use of Save Yourself without having Contemplation of Purity or some such other conditions cleanser used right after will simply melt your Guardian to the ground in a heartbeat, bet.

Word. I actually had this happen to me last night. I wasn’t sure what I did or was thinking but I charged in and hit Save Yourself. I recall thinking to myself after.

“That was rather stupid” /palmToforehead

Glad someone else admitted this, I always thought I was the only one that had this happen to. Do not get me wrong, I love Save Yourself but since the necro patch that revived the mass use of necro’s in WvW, especially, dude, Save Yourself without using a mass condition cleanser right afterwards is insta-death. As a frontliner in HB, I cannot afford to get arsewiped by that type shiznick.; hence, I have removed its use from my skill bar.

Rigel, I have others; trust me

One would think since having played since early head start I’d catch on by now. But no, not so much

Can you revive people with a Tome up? I thought those were mutually exclusive.

Yeah probably not… I was wondering whether to exclude that or not

sry guys i was away from pc for a while…

first of all i want to repeat:
this isn’t a build! this isn’t for wvw! this isn’t for pve and this isn’t a kitten ed BUILD, again.

@knox
“Fixing your math:
(1-0.5352)(1-0.33)(1-0.12) = 0.274”
that will be right if, as said foofad, damage reduction scales multiplicatively… but it doesn’t.

@tarsius
that’s the page where i find that formula (about in the mid)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Damage_calculation

@foofad
“Damage reduction is multiplicative. It’s not possible to bring your damage received to 0. Daecollo as it right.”
If damage reduction was multiplicatively that was right… because you can’t reach 100% without a -100% damage in, at least, one of those processes… but, as i said before, it isn’t and i’m really interested now to find the right formula for damage reduction (maybe can a devs give us some tips? because gw2 wiki was evident but sometimes…)

anyway… there is something of strange here… because according to wiki’s formula:
Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)

this will be an example:
power: 2000 – weapon: gs (1047 damage) – skill coefficient: a rando skill with [1.0]
enemy armor: 3786 (5489 armor)

calculating formula:
damage= (2000*1047*1 / 3786) / 3786*45% = 553,1 / 1703.7
and… that’s sad because this is an proper fraction
and that’s not all! because in order to reach 1 damage the numerator needs 1150 more points which means:
X*1047*1/3786 = 1703 -> X= 6158 power
so basically this would be a table with a build/skill wich can deal 1damage:

power – skill coef
12316 —- 0.5
6158 —-— 1
3079 —-— 2
2052 —-— 3
1539 —-— 4

i thing… that is enough to allow us to take 0 damage from 80-90% of classes/builds
but i really dunno ò.ò that may be an epic discovery… or not.

ps: in these calculations i didn’t used positive factors like vulnerability and might.

Knox.8962:

Kjeldoran.3849:

toughness: 2739 = -53.52% damage
total reduction: 96.52% damage

Fixing your math:

(1-0.5352)(1-0.33)(1-0.12) = 0.274

You’ll end up taking 27.4% of the original damage you would “normally” take, which is pretty impressive, but clearly not 100% damage reduction.

If you went with knight’s everything, slapped on a shield and traited for maximum toughness, you could get pretty close to 80% damage reduction.

Actually the damage reduction from signet and protection stack additively.

The math and misunderstandings in the OP is so bad, lol.

A base lvl 80 has 2127 armor so damage reduction from toughness = 1 – (2127/3937) = 46%
Damage reduction from signet/prot = 42%
Total damage reduction = 1 – (1-.46)(1-.42) = 69%

That’s relative to a full berserker 0 valor character, so about the maximum difference you can possibly get. Notice that you get more damage reduction from protection and signet than you do stacking all that toughness.

LOL @ the OP coming back with further misunderstandings of how damage reduction works and his wild claims. Dude, toughness/armor is part of the damage calculation formula. It is not “damage reduction” that comes up with a % then adds that to the % from protection and signet.

The way your reasoning is, someone would be better off with 0 armor because then they would have higher “damage reduction” from toughness. That makes no sense and it doesn’t work that way.

Yaki.9563:

Dude, toughness/armor is part of the damage calculation formula. It is not “damage reduction” that comes up with a % then adds that to the % from protection and signet.

what?
moment…
this is the formula: Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)
no doubts on this. Now part per part:
- skill damage= Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor
- positive multipliers=
Critical hit: 150% + 1% for each point in Critical Damage
Vulnerability: +1% per stack of vulnerability, up to 25% total
Sigil of Force: +5% damage
Sigil of Slaying: +10% against specific family
Potion of Slaying: +10% against specific family
(according to wiki)
- Armor= toughness + equip armor
- negative multipliers=
Glancing blow: -50% from weakness, 50% chance of triggering
Protection: -33% damage
Potion of Slaying: -10% against specific family
(according to wiki)

so my error was only to add a +12% damage reduction in the formula that now will be
damage= ((2000*1047*1 / 3786) / 3786*33%)* (1-12%) = (553,1 / 12049.4)*(0.88)

still a huge difference and less than 1 damage…

Yaki.9563:

LOL @ the OP coming back with further misunderstandings of how damage reduction works and his wild claims.

and please, avoid those kind of comments because there still are too many kids on the forum and i don’t want to waste more time with them. This is a forum if something is unclair i, you and everyone, can explain but with respect and seriousness not with those kiddy statements.

Every test I’ve done (which is several) indicated that damage increases stack multiplicatively (1+x)(1+y)(1+z) etc.

Everything I’ve tested with protection and the signet indicates that they stack the same way (1-x)*(1-y) and so on.

If you have some proof of things working differently, feel free to share it, so we can all run around being invincible.

Edit: the damage formula you are using is not correct.
Copied straight from the wiki:

Direct damage
Base direct damage is given by the following equation:
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Shouldn’t be too hard to test how the signet and protection interact with each other. The fire spitter turrents around COF do the same dmg every hit I do believe. Put on the siggy and pop a shout for protection then let it hit you. Then after protection wears off see how much damage it does then. I swore I tested the signet trait (and got 15% mitigation) this way before, but mists testing shows 12% reduction. Maybe I’ll test this infront of COF tomorrow.

Zero damage taken is not possible. Toughness and armor are calculated first to establish an initial incoming damage value. Any damage that is left after being mitigated by armor is reduced by any active boons or signets by their percent values (they should stack multiplicatively like damage multipiers, but the stack order is vague in regards to vulnerability).

The only way to take zero damage from something would be to have an astronomically high amount of toughness (In the 10s of millions at 80, maybe larger, it has been awhile since I played with the numbers).

@OP
You sound like an infant when you bash kids on an internet forum. If you want a proper discussion you do not rebut a thread full of people telling you are wrong (many with examples) by producing unsubstantiated math. If you truly believe what you are saying, go find a way to test it and show us your result via screenshots.

Kelnis.1829:

@OP
You sound like an infant when you bash kids on an internet forum. If you want a proper discussion you do not rebut a thread full of people telling you are wrong (many with examples) by producing unsubstantiated math. If you truly believe what you are saying, go find a way to test it and show us your result via screenshots.

man this is ridicolous… what the hell is wrong with this forum?
THIS IS THE SITE
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Damage_calculation
AND THIS IS THE FORMULA
Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)
there isn’t something of hard to understand and i don’t care of your consideration because you are surely another kid, or kiddy like, and this came out also from your discussion “The only way to take zero damage from something would be to have an astronomically high amount of toughness” which is absolutely wrong because damage depends on anemy attack not only on your toughness and you are only using build editors like http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ exactly like a kid would do without understand anything… il suggest you to be quite next time i’m not offending anyone but a bounch of kids can make me start. Leave this forum and come back to drink your milk.

Kelnis.1829:

@Kjeldoran
Yeah, sure, just for you, I’m a twelve year old girl. You are still wrong.

Until you provide evidence of yourself demonstrating your theory in game you are merely an imbecile.

if you think i’m an “imbecile” you also think that gw2 wiki (official) is writed by imbeciles, and since the wiki is approved by gw2 devs you think that devs are imbeciles and since we all play that game described by the wiki and approved by devs we are all imbeciles… wow good job.

kidding apart i haven’t so many free time (i’m not a kid i have to work ) so i can’t test it now (and also write those post from my phone is hard…) so later maybe ill try it but for now… that’s the truth there is no misunderstanding whether you like it or not.

If you can show proof, with screenshots and side-by-side math, of you taking zero damage (as a guardian) from a mob of the same level I will literally give you 100g. OR If you can show any proof whatsoever that your theory has any validity in the realm of actual gameplay.

Though, if your only rebuttal is calling people “kids” and having no verifiable proof… I am pretty certain my gold is safe.

Kelnis.1829:

If you can show proof, with screenshots and side-by-side math, of you taking zero damage (as a guardian) from a mob of the same level I will literally give you 100g. OR If you can show any proof whatsoever that your theory has any validity in the realm of actual gameplay.

Though, if your only rebuttal is calling people “kids” and having no verifiable proof… I am pretty certain my gold is safe.

no verifiable proof:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Damage_calculation
and this isn’t my harangue against you… this is only a thread in which i want to talk with you about the possibility to reach 0 damage… then stop this behavior

Why cant people, on both sides, just calm down and try to explain stuff.

If OP is right its a huge loss if people start bashing.

If OP is wrong adding more math, which he then already have misunderstood, wont help one bit.

Why not try to find a solution.

@OP
May i suggest you grab a friend and go to the mist and get some soldier armor with toughness runes. Your friend grabs a steady weapon for fixed low, and exact, damage.

0. Start fraps
1. dress down with no traits and let him fire at you once
2. write down damage done
3. Dress up and put 30 points in valor and trait shield trait and strength in numbers
4. Let him fire at you twice.
5. write down the second hit, i think strength in numbers is bypassed by the first hit before you are in combat.
7. Add SoJ
8. Repeat 2.
9. Add protection and repeat 1 and 2.
10. Stop fraps

Now you have all the numbers you need to verify your calculation and if you are right post the clip in this thread.

If you are wrong you can post a disclaimer

This little stunt takes like 10 minutes to do and is very easy to understand and its also very informative.

Btw forgot to say, with 3500 armor with SoJ and protection i still take damage and my mitigation is approx 80%

Also easily tested versus red oozes which hits for about 600 when you are naked and for roughly 120 when full geared in 3500+SoJ+prot.

Hello,

I’m going kittening mental reading this topic. As a person who has actually tested these things since the beta let me share some light to your day.

1. STOP thinking Armor is a percentage decrease, cos it’s not. Those are always referenced to something else. 30% less dmg than a naked guy, or berserker ele, or berserker guardian.
Power*Weapon/Armor

2. I don’t know why are you constantly giving that link and saying
“Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)”
I do not see such thing. And the correct one is:
- Modifiers on the Attacker scales multiplicaly.
1.05*1.1*1.1*C*Power*Weapon/Armor
- Modifiers on the Target Scale additively.
(1-0.33-0.1 + 3*0.01)1.051.1*1.1*C*Power*Weapon/Armor (vulnerability there in the target section, weakness would go on the attacker bit)

Thus
(1-Sum(TargetMod))xProd(AttackerMod)xCxPowerxWeapon/Armor
(kitten syntax on this forum messes up formulas)

So the massive mistake here you are doing is you are adding a percent defence from armor and actualy % defences together.

I guess why we don’t have a video showcase is because you wouldn’t know how to test this even.

Brutaly.6257:

Why cant people, on both sides, just calm down and try to explain stuff.

If OP is right its a huge loss if people start bashing.

If OP is wrong adding more math, which he then already have misunderstood, wont help one bit.

Why not try to find a solution.

@OP
May i suggest you grab a friend and go to the mist and get some soldier armor with toughness runes. Your friend grabs a steady weapon for fixed low, and exact, damage.

0. Start fraps
1. dress down with no traits and let him fire at you once
2. write down damage done
3. Dress up and put 30 points in valor and trait shield trait and strength in numbers
4. Let him fire at you twice.
5. write down the second hit, i think strength in numbers is bypassed by the first hit before you are in combat.
7. Add SoJ
8. Repeat 2.
9. Add protection and repeat 1 and 2.
10. Stop fraps

Now you have all the numbers you need to verify your calculation and if you are right post the clip in this thread.

If you are wrong you can post a disclaimer

This little stunt takes like 10 minutes to do and is very easy to understand and its also very informative.

of course dude ill test it as soon as possible… but as you said we have to calm down.

ps: math in the first post was wrong, i know, but later i corrected it

Sabull.5670:

1. STOP thinking Armor is a percentage decrease, cos it’s not. Those are always referenced to something else. 30% less dmg than a naked guy, or berserker ele, or berserker guardian.
Power*Weapon/Armor

2. I don’t know why are you constantly giving that link and saying
“Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)”
I do not see such thing. And the correct one is:
- Modifiers on the Attacker scales multiplicaly.
1.05*1.1*1.1*C*Power*Weapon/Armor
- Modifiers on the Target Scale additively.
(1-0.33-0.1 + 3*0.01)1.051.1*1.1*C*Power*Weapon/Armor (vulnerability there in the target section, weakness would go on the attacker bit)

I guess why we don’t have a video showcase is because you wouldn’t know how to test this even.

i can’t make a video because i just tried and… from 118fps without fraps gw2 get 12fps with fraps activation in hearth of the mists.

anyway here are some numbers, unfortunately this my firend hasn’t so much time so this is only a superficial test… ill do more later, maybe tomorrow.

my friend:
power: 1176
weapon: steady hammer (warrior)
weapon damage: 284
skill used: auto-attack 1&2
skill coefficient: [0.9] & [0.9]
damage multipliers: none

me (test 1):
toughness: 2139
damage reducers: none
armor: 3350

me (test 2):
toughness: 2289 (+ strength in numbers)
damage reducers: none
armor 3500

me (test 3):
toughness: 2139
damage reducers: SoJ
armor: 3350

me (test 4):
toughness: 2289 (+ strength in numbers)
damage reducers: SoJ
armor: 3500

results:
test 1 -> 89 damage
test 2 -> 85 damage
test 3 -> 80 damage
test 4 -> 78 damage
considerations:
test 1
it works like the formula says:
damage= power*skillcoef*weapon attack / armor = 1176*0.9*284/3350=89,727

test 2
still like formula so strength in numbers work like normal toughness:
damage= 1176*0.9*284 / 3500 = 85.882

test 3
if following formula we have:
damage= (1176*0.9*284 / 3350 )*(1-10%) = 80.7543
so the formula is right

test 4
the same as up +150 toughness

now it becomes interesting…

test 5
armor: 3350
damage reducers: protection
damage done: 60
using formula:
Damage = (Skill damage * Positive multipliers) / (Armor * Negative multipliers)
damage= (89,727) / 3350*0.33 = 0.08
previous formula:
damage= 89.727*(1-0.33) = 60.117
which is right

test 6
armor: 3350
damage reducers: protection + soj
damage done: 51

frmula: damage= 89.727* (1-0.33) * (1-0.1)= 54 damage
which is wrong but
formula: damage= 89.727* (1-0.43)= 51.144
which is right

so damage reducers stack additively and the onyl way to get 0 is to get a 100% total damage reduction (1-1)… the max we can get is 45%

anyway there still is a way to reach 0 damage in the sense that our hp can’t be lowered by attacks that’s how:
with VoR (107hp traited) + dolyak signet (30hp) both without healing power (but i don’t know if they scales with) we get 135hp per sec (but we can consider 200hp per sec since we use AH) and the result is that

200hp = ((skill damage)/ 3936 )* (0.55) -> skill damage= 1.431.272
skill damage= pow* weap* skillcoef
so we can use a common weap: gs (1047) and skill coef [1.0]
and get 1.431.272 = x* 1047* 1 -> power needed = 1367

which means that with 1367 power we don’t get damage this isn’t 0 damage but that can be improved… with food… and better traits… ill continue to work on.

this is an example of build i did in 10 sec:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeSlUgKCnFyvDm4ERWhVi9AjfsjXPSoEZIA-jEzAYMBRqBIFCiIAkAX0aWMg1twWdjW5NIqZioatNmJvIa1yAYOGA-w

hp per sec:
regeneration 255hp
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * 1000) = 144hp
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * 1000) = 182hp
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * 1000) = 79hp
mango pie 85hp
total: 745hp per sec (without considering heals, rolls and elite)

adding that to the above formula give us:

754hp = ((skill damage)/ 3468 )* (0.57) -> skill damage= 4587494.7
enemy power= 4381

now i don’t know if is possible to get a soo huge power… but i dont think so basically the damage you get every 1 sec i lower than the hp you gain.

Then if you agree with me… we can start to optimize that build in order to reduce this huge “required power” maybe to a cap of 3000 and get other stats in order to deal more damage

Ok good so now you edited the post to make sense. And the examples you posted above are correct and exactly as I said.

This topic is just so wierd cos in no place you fully aknowledge the errors there were, but just edit them in the main post multiple times. So we could never understood fully what you were arguing for on each moment.

The smallest hit possible I think is against Heavy Knight x (1-0.12-0.1-0.33)*0.5 = 0.225 modifier. Frost armor and Weakness.

gl hf, my work here is done.

Sabull.5670:

Ok good so now you edited the post to make sense. And the examples you posted above are correct and exactly as I said.

This topic is just so wierd cos in no place you fully aknowledge the errors there were, but just edit them in the main post multiple times. So we could never understood fully what you were arguing for on each moment.

The smallest hit possible I think is against Heavy Knight x (1-0.12-0.1-0.33)*0.5 = 0.225 modifier. Frost armor and Weakness.

gl hf, my work here is done.

ok give me a moment… i edited first post because there where wrong calculations… now ill correct it with latests news and the prototype of the build… give me a moment..

PS: ok OP corrected now please tell me something of constructive and avoid more comments like this.

Sabull.5670:

The smallest hit possible I think is against Heavy Knight x (1-0.12-0.1-0.33)*0.5 = 0.225 modifier. Frost armor and Weakness.

as i tested just today the right formula will be

damage= (skill damage / armor) * (1 – (0.12+0.1+0.33+0.5) which is pretty near to a 0 damage infact 1-0.96 = 4% damage taken but these condition are really hard to get because frost armor requires frost field (ranger or elementalist) and lasts few seconds and weakness isn’t so simply to put on enemy and doesn’t last enough.

anyway you are right… that will be the max damage reduction

Daecollo.9578:

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens

Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

I will just leave this hear.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Sabull.5670:

The smallest hit possible I think is against Heavy Knight x (1-0.12-0.1-0.33)*0.5 = 0.225 modifier. Frost armor and Weakness.

as i tested just today the right formula will be

damage= (skill damage / armor) * (1 – (0.12+0.1+0.33+0.5) which is pretty near to a 0 damage infact 1-0.96 = 4% damage taken but these condition are really hard to get because frost armor requires frost field (ranger or elementalist) and lasts few seconds and weakness isn’t so simply to put on enemy and doesn’t last enough.

anyway you are right… that will be the max damage reduction

Take that 0.5 out of the additive. Weakness is debuff on the Attacker NOT a buff on the Defender. Thus multiplied. Just like a 10% bonus to burning target for example.

Daecollo.9578:

Daecollo.9578:

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

I will just leave this hear.

No man reduction stacks additively so that method is wrong… it s not 1000 -10% then 900 -20% but 1000 -30% which is different

Kjeldoran.3849:

Daecollo.9578:

Daecollo.9578:

This is not how damage reduction works.

You take 10k damage.
Its reduced by Armor first (Lets say you have 2750, that is 33%.)

6700, then its reduced by another 33% (Protection.)

4489, then its reduced by Signet of Judgement, another 10-15%, lets say 15%.

3816 Damage is what you take after all of thakittens Impossible to reduce your damage by 100%.

I will just leave this hear.

No man reduction stacks additively so that method is wrong… it s not 1000 -10% then 900 -20% but 1000 -30% which is different