Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

ahahahah XD i love that pic

anyway the difference is that the right formula is:

damage= (skill damage/ armor) * (1-x-y-z) not (skill damage/ armor) * (1-x) * (1-y) * (1-z)

i just tested it today

new section (can someone tell me how to make a link to this post so i can put it in the main thread?):

• Math for math’s sake
  now i’ll explain what is better in order to get a more efficient damage reduction and reach the zero damage between ealing power and toughness.

healing power vs toughness
as i said over, heals per second is the key in order to reach zero damage togheter with toughness of course but does healing power scale better than toughness? as i said above: yes; but here are some numbers…

our aim is to compare 100 more hp per sec with X more toughness (rememer that we get the same ammout of healing power or toughness from equip so it’s, for example, 100 healing power vs 100 toughness)

first of all: how many healing power we need in order to increase our hp/sec by 100 points?
regeneration 130 + (0.125 * healing power)
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * healing power)
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * healing power)
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * healing power)
the formula is the following
100 = 0.125* x 0.06* x 0.075* x +0.01* x
x = 100/0,27 = 370,4

so basically the confront is 100 hp/sec vs 370 toughness
let’s try in the base formula with some generical numbers!
[read over for the explanation of the following formula]
hp/sec (200hp) = skill damage / armor (3000)
enemy skill damage required in order to get “0 damage” < 600.000

then try with more hp/sec and less armor
hp/sec (200 + 100) = skill damage / armor (3000 – 370)
enemy skill damage required in order to get “0 damage” < 789.000

and the really impressive thing is that change 370 toughness for 370 healing power (+100 hp/sec) is 24% more effective!

to this is the way… tomorrow ill continue to work on and i really appreciate any help and suggestion since i haven’t much time and almost every time i’m writing from phone XD

Bunker anti-nuke Build

Role: Bunker for WvW (zerg head), hearth of the mists and pve (dungeons)

Ok, this is the first build to use the method “zero damage” and it isn’t only defensive but has also a bit of offensive capacity…

build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeSlUgKCnFyvDm4ERWhVi9AjfsjXPS4DZIA-jkyAYMBRCDIFCiIAkAjYWcIrlxioxqmJiq12Ym8ioVLDAzCA-w

explanation
thanks to the great ammount of heal per sec and the great quantity of toughness this build is able to survive to… everything without any particular problem. This build is also created to survive to 2vs1 and 3vs1 fights (also 4-5-6 vs 1 but here you wont be able to kill but only to defend). The best combination comes out from regeneration + protection + retailation (that remember me a hotw boss…) simply because our regeneration is really strong, our protection is perma and our retailation greatly improves our dps.
Also to keep up those boons is really easy:
regeneration: symbol of faith, hold the line, save yourselves
protection: symbol of protection, protector’s strike, shield of judgment, hold the line, save yourselves, tome of courage
retailation: save yourselves, combo filed (mighty blow + field)

how many damage can we endure until we get 1, effective, damage?

skill damage (considering skill coef. 1.0 and a GS) = (power * skill coef. * weapon damage ) / armor

easy formula: hp/sec = (skill damage / armor ) * (0.57)
our hp-per-sec:
regeneration 130 + (0.125 * 1211) = 281
virtue of resolve 84 + (0.06 * 1211) = 156
writh of the mercifull 107 + (0.075 * 1211) = 198
altruistic healing 69 + (0.01 * 1211) = 81
total: 716hp per sec

716 = ((skill damage) / 3682 ) * (0.57)
skill damage required = 4.625.108
4.625.108 = power * 1 * 1047
power required: 4417!
this means that an enemy with less than 4417 power can’t deal damage with a skill with coef 1.0 or less (very few skills have more than 1.0 skill coefficient and still with a coef of 2.0 we are able to get zero damage against enemies with 2209 power or less!)

That’s all for now hope you enjoy this zero damage build as soon as possible ill work for a build which is also able to deal massive damage and become kinda the king of 1vs1.

ps: notice that the above build uses food and runes for condition removers (togheter with pure of voice) but if you want you can sobstitute them for more toughness and healing power and get an even more indestructible build (but more vulnerable to conditions)

Quote : skill damage= power * skill coefficient * weapon damage / enemy armor
skill damage with modifiers= (skill damage / enemy armor ) * (1-x-y-z )
where x, y and z are damage reducers like protection and abilities
1. /enemy armor, twice?
2. you never know the skill coefficient/power/weapon dmg of PVE/WvW mobs, while the skill dmg is depends on skill coefficient*power*weapon dmg, can be much higher than you think(ever for players’ skill it can be more than 10 million)
3. if 2 or more mobs/players are attacking you … your hp PER SECOND does’t work, because it is not hp PER SECOND PER MOB/PLAYER
4. not works for condition
5. how about crits?

fail

add: 6. 1 break stun every 60 seconds?

Fred kitten .4971:

Quote : skill damage= power * skill coefficient * weapon damage / enemy armor
skill damage with modifiers= (skill damage / enemy armor ) * (1-x-y-z )
where x, y and z are damage reducers like protection and abilities
1. /enemy armor, twice?
2. you never know the skill coefficient/power/weapon dmg of PVE/WvW mobs, while the skill dmg is depends on skill coefficient*power*weapon dmg, can be much higher than you think(ever for players’ skill it can be more than 10 million)
3. if 2 or more mobs/players are attacking you … your hp PER SECOND does’t work, because it is not hp PER SECOND PER MOB/PLAYER
4. not works for condition
5. how about crits?

fail

add: 6. 1 break stun every 60 seconds?

thank you for comment but you are pretty wrong… so ill wait to say “fail”

1. that was only my error… every calculation i’ve done consider 1 enemy armor; that was in order to avoid to write again skill damage numerator
2. pve is easier to understand than you think. Of course i’m not talking about “one shot” skills because here you have to avoid them by definition… but for every other attack you have pretty an easy life
3. you are right… but you forget something: with this build you get up to 716hp per sec while a single enemy can deal a max of 300 damage per sec… this mean that only with regen you can be hit twice per sec without get any effective damage. Also you have to consider heals form rolls, heal skill, and elite which greatly increase you hp/sec and then you also to consider blinds/aegis/miss/block which greatly decreases enemy attacks so basically you can’t be attacked 1 time per sec during the entire fight … so hp are always in our favour

this should be a simply view of a match
sec: – damage: – heals:
1 – 300 – 716
2 – miss – 716
3 – 300 – 716

then do you understand that with this setup you can handle 5+ enemies without problems

4. actually this build is greatly focused on cond removal: -60% cond duration, up to 4 remove condition and elite, not considering that you can change heal skill (because you will use it really few times) and traits and, above all, heals per sec is always good to resist to conditions too (maybe not against 5 conditions spammer… but here there is nothing you can do)
5. actually this is a bunker build and is able to reach 55% crit chance and a 35% crit damage which is better than a lot of non defensive builds i’ve seen
6. mainly you don’t need stun break since you get passive heal regeneration and that’s enough to resist… no more need to do anything… just watch you enemy trying to kill you while drinking a coffee… then if you want… you can kill him (that’s exaggerated of course but not so far from reality )

Have you considered moving 10 points from Valor to Virtues to pick up Absolute Resolution? The extra Retaliation and condition removal seems to fit more with the theme of this build than extra Might (although the healing from Altruistic Healing would probably end up being slightly higher than the boosted VoR).

What do you think?

process execution.8014:

Have you considered moving 10 points from Valor to Virtues to pick up Absolute Resolution? The extra Retaliation and condition removal seems to fit more with the theme of this build than extra Might (although the healing from Altruistic Healing would probably end up being slightly higher than the boosted VoR).

What do you think?

yes… my first build was 0/0/30/20/20 but i think is better to take 100 more healing power + 2x cond removal (thanks to shouts) instead of a single improved heal and only 1 cond removal (*1skill that removes conditions). Anyway if you want to remove condition removers from build (because for example you are playing in an organized party) you can go for a 30/20/20 and maybe change runes and food.

Hey!

I am new to the Game, and i was looking for something like this. I do have a few Questions, though.
How do you keep up Regeneration the whole Time?
Do you use a Mace and Symbol of Faith?
If so, how do you keep up Protection the whole Time?
Do you swap between Hammer and Mace?
For me, it looks like you can either upkeep Regeneration or Protection, because one is “spamable” with a Mace, the other one with a Hammer.
Also, does Altruistic Healing work for every Boon?
If if have Might and Regeneration, does it proc two times per Second?
Oh, and last, but not least, thank you for all the Work/Math you have done.

With some boon duration and Writ of Persistence, if you swap weapons on cooldown and drop a symbol at least once per rotation you should be able to keep both up indefinitely.

AH works with each individual application of a boon. For example, Empower would proc it 12 times, times the number of people affected.

1) People have attacks that hit quicker then once per second
2) You do not take in account Critical Hits from the Enemy

@Foofad
yes that’s right but we are still able to get permasymbol with hammer 1# spam (or something like perma)
@Blasino
1)people have attacks quicker then 1 per second only if their coefficient are lower than 1.0 (which is the one i’m considering) and if you are always in front of them waiting for their attacks
2) critical hits are less effective than you think; 1 crit with low crit damage is less than 2x damage which mean that from 300… they would deal 600 damage (100 less under hp/sec) and if their focused on crit damage (berserker builds) their damage multiplier will be really reduced simply because 300 * 2.5 (supposing a 100% crit damage build) = 750… which means that is still under our hp/sec (i was not considering dodge roll in the 716 hp/sec) and, really important, it’s a full zerker buid… so while you still get 0 damage from, you are able to kill him … fastly and easily

u guys notice this is only theory right? do not work on the field.

There are classes that make 3%-6% more damage per boon.
And conditions damage makes much more damage than regens can cover plus minor healings.

If its is for Pve only, anything on healing power makes guardian very sturdy.

how about this theory on a regen banner warrior?

Kjeldoran.3849:

@Foofad
yes that’s right but we are still able to get permasymbol with hammer 1# spam (or something like perma)
@Blasino
1)people have attacks quicker then 1 per second only if their coefficient are lower than 1.0 (which is the one i’m considering) and if you are always in front of them waiting for their attacks
2) critical hits are less effective than you think; 1 crit with low crit damage is less than 2x damage which mean that from 300… they would deal 600 damage (100 less under hp/sec) and if their focused on crit damage (berserker builds) their damage multiplier will be really reduced simply because 300 * 2.5 (supposing a 100% crit damage build) = 750… which means that is still under our hp/sec (i was not considering dodge roll in the 716 hp/sec) and, really important, it’s a full zerker buid… so while you still get 0 damage from, you are able to kill him … fastly and easily

1) So you are saying that there are no attacks with a coefficient higher then 1 and quicker then 1 second? Because if you are, then you are incorrect. Guardians themselves have attacks that can fire off in less then a second and some of them have coefficients of 2.5, 2.25, and 1.4. Matter in fact all three of them combined is about a second.

2) I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? Here are the stats of my roaming build. Can you show me how I’m doing zero damage to you? 2170 power, 48% crit chance, 90% crit damage. I run sword/focus, greatsword. And for the sake to show I’m not a glass cannon I have 2968 armor and 16735 health.

foofad.5162:

With some boon duration and Writ of Persistence, if you swap weapons on cooldown and drop a symbol at least once per rotation you should be able to keep both up indefinitely.

AH works with each individual application of a boon. For example, Empower would proc it 12 times, times the number of people affected.

If i have two Boons on myself, does AH tick twice per Second?
If it ticks once for every Boon, that would mean, if i have Rengeration and Protection up, it ticks for each of them? 70 HPS + 70 HPS = 140 HPS.
Is that correct?

Blasino.3128:

Kjeldoran.3849:

@Foofad
yes that’s right but we are still able to get permasymbol with hammer 1# spam (or something like perma)
@Blasino
1)people have attacks quicker then 1 per second only if their coefficient are lower than 1.0 (which is the one i’m considering) and if you are always in front of them waiting for their attacks
2) critical hits are less effective than you think; 1 crit with low crit damage is less than 2x damage which mean that from 300… they would deal 600 damage (100 less under hp/sec) and if their focused on crit damage (berserker builds) their damage multiplier will be really reduced simply because 300 * 2.5 (supposing a 100% crit damage build) = 750… which means that is still under our hp/sec (i was not considering dodge roll in the 716 hp/sec) and, really important, it’s a full zerker buid… so while you still get 0 damage from, you are able to kill him … fastly and easily

1) So you are saying that there are no attacks with a coefficient higher then 1 and quicker then 1 second? Because if you are, then you are incorrect. Guardians themselves have attacks that can fire off in less then a second and some of them have coefficients of 2.5, 2.25, and 1.4. Matter in fact all three of them combined is about a second.

2) I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? Here are the stats of my roaming build. Can you show me how I’m doing zero damage to you? 2170 power, 48% crit chance, 90% crit damage. I run sword/focus, greatsword. And for the sake to show I’m not a glass cannon I have 2968 armor and 16735 health.

Hey!

1.) Is there a Place where i can check Coefficients? Are these spamable Attacks? Id really like to know.

2.) I also would really like to know the Math behind this. Having three Attacks in about 1 Second with such Coefficients looks like a lot of Damage.

Kjeldoran.3849:

Lots of interesting Stuff

Kjeldoran, can you do the Math for us, please? :-)

Garakan.8291:

1.) Is there a Place where i can check Coefficients? Are these spamable Attacks? Id really like to know.

Foofad’s Weapon Coefficient List

also the official wiki has them listed against most guardian skills.

Garakan.8291:

2.) I also would really like to know the Math behind this. Having three Attacks in about 1 Second with such Coefficients looks like a lot of Damage.

Example damage calculation for Whirling Wrath

Yup, 2 of those have a delay before their effect is realised ( Shield of Wrath – 2.5, Zealot’s Fire – 2.25 ): So you precast the shield, wait a second, cast Ray of Judgement – 0.5 and Zealot’s Fire at range, teleport (JI) in close and use Protector’s Strike – 1.4. Timed correctly you can do 18k of damage in less than a second ( and higher in a full glass cannon build in WvW ).

Tarsius.3170:

Garakan.8291:

1.) Is there a Place where i can check Coefficients? Are these spamable Attacks? Id really like to know.

Foofad’s Weapon Coefficient List

also the official wiki has them listed against most guardian skills.

Garakan.8291:

2.) I also would really like to know the Math behind this. Having three Attacks in about 1 Second with such Coefficients looks like a lot of Damage.

Example damage calculation for Whirling Wrath

Yup, 2 of those have a delay before their effect is realised ( Shield of Wrath – 2.5, Zealot’s Fire – 2.25 ): So you precast the shield, wait a second, cast Ray of Judgement – 0.5 and Zealot’s Fire at range, teleport (JI) in close and use Protector’s Strike – 1.4. Timed correctly you can do 18k of damage in less than a second ( and higher in a full glass cannon build in WvW ).

Hey!
Thank you very much! :-)
Dont want to bother you, but i have another Questions and couldnt find an Answer anywhere.
Can Retaliation critically Hit? Does it benefit from the Crit Chance of the Player?

Ah one for the FAQ I think:

no the Retaliation Boon is not effected by Critical ( the same as Condition Damage )

edit: added FAQ 33

Garakan.8291:

Kjeldoran.3849:

Lots of interesting Stuff

Kjeldoran, can you do the Math for us, please? :-)

XD yes send me your homeworks

Blasino.3128:

1) So you are saying that there are no attacks with a coefficient higher then 1 and quicker then 1 second? Because if you are, then you are incorrect. Guardians themselves have attacks that can fire off in less then a second and some of them have coefficients of 2.5, 2.25, and 1.4. Matter in fact all three of them combined is about a second.

2) I don’t understand what you are trying to say here? Here are the stats of my roaming build. Can you show me how I’m doing zero damage to you? 2170 power, 48% crit chance, 90% crit damage. I run sword/focus, greatsword. And for the sake to show I’m not a glass cannon I have 2968 armor and 16735 health.

1) i’m talking about auto atacks ^^ because if you are considering skills like whirling wrath you have to consider the 10sec cd not the 3/4 cast time and you always forget that also auto attacks with a cast time of 0.5 in reality last 1 sec (or near 1 sec) because of animation and aftercast.

2)do you get those stats with food? without are quite impossible (according to my calculation) and still with food are you considering fury in crit chance? because in my build i tried to optimize stats and i don’t get so high especially in toughness and crit damage at same time; infact i get 2100 power, 14xx (don’t remember now) toughness, 48% crit chance, 82% crit damge and 15005 hp (without foods). Anyway you crits are less effectives as you think over my build simply because your power is under 4417 and in particular:
4417 / 2170 = 2,05 times lower than required with a 90% crit damage you get a 2.4% crit multiplier so your damage will be:
716 / 2.05 = 349.3
349.3 * 2.4 = 838

now you are considering a skill with coefficient 1.0 and get a 838 damage
while my health per sec is 716 (withouth considering dodge roll) but you have to consider more option:
-is this an auto-attack? no, then you have to wait cd and your damage per second will be lower than 838
-is this a 1 total sec skill? (considering pre cast, animation and after cast) no? then you have to consider a reduction in damage per second
-is this a ranged skill? no? then you have to consider that you can always miss it and get 0 damage and a cd

what i’m trying to say is that while my 716hp/sec are something of sure your damage, instead, isn’t sure and isn’t even enough to overcome my health regeneration (of course we are talking about 1 with y build vs 1 full zerker).

Also i want to underline that this propotype of build is purely defensive and i can develop a stronger one in order to also deal a very good damage (also this one has a decend dps… simply isn’t enough in a competitive tpvp)

Aeolus.3615:

u guys notice this is only theory right? do not work on the field.
There are classes that make 3%-6% more damage per boon.
And conditions damage makes much more damage than regens can cover plus minor healings.
If its is for Pve only, anything on healing power makes guardian very sturdy.

I’ll say that this is more than theory crafting ^^ math is math and every game is based on math… so you have the answer.

- 3,6 and even 9% damage multiplier isn’t enough if you are conidering a base damage of 300… 9% is 9more damage? wow… really…
- this build isn’t fro pve (mobs) but for PvE (dungeons)
-

Kjeldoran.3849:

Garakan.8291:

Kjeldoran.3849:

Lots of interesting Stuff

Kjeldoran, can you do the Math for us, please? :-)

(…)

u guys notice this is only theory right? do not work on the field.
There are classes that make 3%-6% more damage per boon.
And conditions damage makes much more damage than regens can cover plus minor healings.
If its is for Pve only, anything on healing power makes guardian very sturdy.

I’ll say that this is more than theory crafting ^^ math is math and every game is based on math… so you have the answer.

- 3,6 and even 9% damage multiplier isn’t enough if you are conidering a base damage of 300… 9% is 9more damage? wow… really…
- this build isn’t fro pve (mobs) but for PvE (dungeons)
-

yes math is math, i work with that every day and lots of code, i might have missunderstanded this thread suposing that u guys sayins that gw2 mechanics allow ths to happen wich does not.
It is easyer this theory crafting for Warrior than Guardian IMO, based on a banner , but i do really like what u guys are theory trying to prove here.

Note: all math i do while gamming is arround WvW player stats and skill formulas, i be might offtopic here.

Edited due level of “Engrish” spoken