10 Class Raids

10 Class Raids

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ananeos.4587

Ananeos.4587

Has 10 Mesmers in a single raid group ever been done before? Every other class has gotten the multiple class treatment for every boss and by prominent raid guilds too.

There’s a serious balancing problem at hand if Mesmer is the only class that can’t handle a 10 Mesmer raid.

Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS

(edited by Ananeos.4587)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

I think 10 mesmers would be possible, it would just be sorta miserable to do. Sabetha in particular would be really awful with soloing the cannons, and KC could be challenging since it’s hard for us to burst like other classes.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

@Fay you must not know the top secret mesmer DPS build that can output 30k dps. Just have 2 mesmers running support/alacrity and have the other 8 running this ultra strong mega god mode build and world record times will be had.

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

Every other class has gotten the multiple class treatment for every boss and by prominent raid guilds too.

Can you give some links of those videos?
I sadly only found Elementalist (which are also the ones breaking the length record), Guardian and Revenant. And most of them are VG only…
I remember someone wanting to organize a 10 thief and another one a 10 ranger (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Organizing-a-10-Ranger-VG) but never saw any results….

I think 10 mesmers vs VG should be doable by competent players since all other profession did it without perma quickness, and not necessarily perma 25 might. Also Mesmer is required in the 5 man VG for distortion to avoid green mechanism so 10 of them should do the trick. Lastly, there was a reddit user able to pull more than 20 k condi DPS on VG, which means Red Guard is not too problematic.
Mesmers are generally less present in the world, so gathering 10 good ones around one boss to try crazy challenge like this is already a challenge.

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Mesmers can sustain 25 stacks might, perma Quickness and Alacrity is assured aswell, they have power, they have condi, they have heal.

I don’t see a problem with most bosses tbh Especially VG should be totally fine, even easy.

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Well, let’s go boss by boss.

VG will be ez pz. You can just stack up phantasms and let it go. Have one or two on mantra heals for sustain, a couple foci for seeker control.

Gorseval

Gorseval has some nasty stuff for mesmers. First annoyance will be killing the adds before an updraft. With pulls it’s not too much of an issue potentially, but sometimes pulls bug out and don’t properly yank the adds. If that happens, killing all of them could be challenging.

Then you’ll run into the charged spirits phase. This will be really slow due to the Mesmer reliance on phantasms. The best way would probably be to put 2 mesmers on each one so that they can stack up phantasms and not have to target switch. It should be doable, but it’ll be rather slow.

Then we get into the second gorse phase. Things get sorta hairy here because of orbs. I’m thinking you’ll need to have several people with mantra of pain dedicated to orb clearing, but that might not be enough, it’s hard to say. If you’re able to handle the orbs and still make the dps check though, this should be a doable fight.

Sabetha

This one is going to suck. Sabetha herself shouldn’t be too bad, nor will the other bandits be awful, but swapping from one to the next will cause massive drops in dps. Cannons will be the worst though. It might be possible to 1shot a cannon will a full glassy burst shatter…but I doubt it. You’ll need to spend far more time than usual killing cannons.

This fight should be possible though, it’s just that the cannon folks will have a really bad time of it. Karde will also be a pain due to the flame turrets he spawns, so you may need some concentrated MoP attention to handle those.

Slothy

This should be fairly easy, all things considered. You just set up condition removal between everyone, some mantra heals, some reflects, and a bunch of dps phantasms.

Trio

This will be potentially miserable. Mesmers are not known for their trash clearing expertise…and there is a lot of dangerous trash in this fight. There’s a dangerous possibility of trash stack up to a raid wipe if the entire group isn’t heavily specced for aoe clearing damage. The whole raid will need to be super on top of pulling mobs in and cleaving them down.

There’s also a bit of an issue with the flamethrower boss…the only way for Mesmer to ignite those barrels is the prestige. This poses a conundrum for the group. Ideally, you only want 1 person with torch because it’s such a miserable weapon. On the other hand, if that one person dies…you’re hosed. You’d probably want 2 people with torch just to be safe.

Matthias

Matthias shouldn’t be too bad actually. The main annoyance here is that every sacrifice will brick the dps of that person for a bit. Judicious use of the heal signet will ameliorate this, but it’ll still be annoying. This fight will need to be pretty heavy on mantras for sustain and condie cleanse as well, since there’s a lot of damage pressure and condies that come out in the rain phase.

Escort

Meh, doable. Might take a while, but w/e. Honestly, the boss will be a right pain in the kitten . Every time he splits, everyone’s phantasms will pop. What a miserable fight.

Keep Construct

This fight could potentially be really hard for multiple reasons. The biggest problem throughout the fight is that you have to constantly kill new targets. Unless you’re in a burn phase, killing the phantoms is more important than dpsing KC himself, and that means you’re target swapping every 25-30 seconds.

Additionally, the slow buildup of Mesmer damage will have 2 really nasty effects. The first effect is that it will be potentially impossible for the group to kill the first phantom before the second phantom arrives. This means you’ll need to kite it around a bit instead of just pushing dps like normal. The swap to damaging the second phantom will also be really slow, so you’re potentially looking at dealing with 2 full mechanic cycles from KC before each burn phase.

Orb phase should be easy, but then you get into the burn phase. This is really nasty actually. Recall that during the orb phase, phantoms are still spawning. This means that everyone in the raid has to be burning cooldowns to maintain the dps on those phantoms to prevent them from combining. However, the burn phase is essential to instantly burst out with full dps, meaning you need all those cooldowns. There’s no way you’ll be able to 1shot the burst phase 33%, and that makes this fight really dangerous.

So let’s stack it all up. I’m expecting you’ll need to deal with 2 full mechanic cycles per burn phase. You’ll need 2 burn phases per 33%. This means you’re looking at needing to do twice as many burn phases as a normal group, you’ll have to deal with at least twice as many mechanic cycles, and you’ll have to deal with mechanic cycles in the very dangerous last 33% phase.

Honestly, KC might be the very hardest boss. I could be overestimating how hard it’ll be to dps things down in this fight, but I don’t think I am. This one is nasty, make no mistake.

Xera

Lastly, we’ve got Xera. The bloodstone shard platforms are going to be a right pain in the kitten to kill with our slow damage buildup, but it should be doable. Similar to Gorseval, this fight will need probably 3 or more people with MoP to handle shards on the arena. Heavy condie control will be required, potentially to the point of stacking up maybe 2-3 disenchanters on Xera so that you can focus on other things mid-fight.

Add control will be a challenge on this fight too. You’ll need several mesmers with focus for pulls, and potentially one or two specced for shatter to actually kill the adds.

This fight will be tricky, but I think it should be doable. As long as MoP can clear shards fast enough (this might be difficult honestly, I’ve never tried shard clearing with MoP for obvious reasons), then it’ll be challenging but doable, given a good tank of course.

Overview

VG: Easy

Gorseval: Challenging but probably doable. Dps check will potentially be a problem, running out of time will potentially be a problem.

Sabetha: Annoying but doable.

Slothy: Easy

Trio: Challenging but doable. Add clearing is the major challenge, and you have to kitten yourselves with a couple torches.

Matthias: Doable

Escort: Doable but really annoying on the final fight.

Keep Construct: Extremely challenging. Probably doable, but will be extremely dangerous and extremely difficult.

Xera: Very challenging but doable.

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Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

Edit: sorry, i forgot, not enough decent mesmers in the game to create the group

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

Not sure if he’s wrong though. I’ve read your post Fay and I agree with most of it, but some stuff seems a bit “on the omg so hard content” side.

I would really like to raid with 9 other great Chronos to try all encounters.

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Not sure if he’s wrong though. I’ve read your post Fay and I agree with most of it, but some stuff seems a bit “on the omg so hard content” side.

I would really like to raid with 9 other great Chronos to try all encounters.

I mean, my analysis only ends up on 3 bosses that are potentially problematic: gorse, Xera, and KC.

Gorse and Xera are problematic because they both share mechanics that Mesmer is weak at: long range damage for clearing objects in a limited time. They also both have some mechanics that require target swapping or aoe/cleave damage, which Mesmer is weak at as well. As I said though, I think these are doable given proper comp and strategy.

The only boss I have serious doubts about being possible is KC. KC basically involves nearly every single mechanic that Mesmer is awful at. It requires heavy burst damage without allowing for any setup time. It requires rapid target switching while simultaneously needing heavy damage on the targets. Lastly, it’s a fight that becomes drastically more punishing as you get to later stages, making the difficulty of the fight ramp up dangerously.

If you really think it’ll be that easy, feel free to explain how you plan on getting around those issues. Otherwise, my points stand.

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Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

Feel free to explain your tactic for handling Keep Construct, I’ll be happy to tell you why it won’t work well.

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Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

Feel free to explain your tactic for handling Keep Construct, I’ll be happy to tell you why it won’t work well.

Why would i try to explain anything to you after the mess you wrote earlier about each boss? Simply not worth the effort, just letting the other people know you can do it.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

Feel free to explain your tactic for handling Keep Construct, I’ll be happy to tell you why it won’t work well.

Why would i try to explain anything to you after the mess you wrote earlier about each boss? Simply not worth the effort, just letting the other people know you can do it.

I’ll take that as a ‘I don’t actually have a plan, I just like talking big’. K.

Edit: Have you even done the raids? Last I checked you were just a “pro” leaguer.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

No one will take you seriously until you start actually providing arguments to back up your statements. Simply saying someone else is wrong without giving reasons or justification (and no, “because I said so” is not justification) does nothing but further discredit your statements on the matter

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

Edit: sorry, i forgot, not enough decent mesmers in the game to create the group

Please, mesmer in PvE only requires practice. The reason you won’t find that many people willing to PvE as mesmer or take part in this is simply because it’s a lot easier to do it on most other classes.

There’s only maybe ranger where things might get dicey because their DPS is just as bad as mesmers, every other class won’t have to worry about DPS checks or spiking damage.

Anyone got a link with the all X class boss kills btw, would be interesting to watch, guessing thieves went heal venom for sustain?

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

There’s only maybe ranger where things might get dicey because their DPS is just as bad as mesmers, every other class won’t have to worry about DPS checks or spiking damage.

Are you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOJqxW1xdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhmVLWNjDpk

I’ve only seen Guardian, Necro, and Ele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rwQoPac_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQ_bcuu-3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

There’s only maybe ranger where things might get dicey because their DPS is just as bad as mesmers, every other class won’t have to worry about DPS checks or spiking damage.

Are you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOJqxW1xdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhmVLWNjDpk

I’ve only seen Guardian, Necro, and Ele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rwQoPac_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQ_bcuu-3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

I stand corrected, pretty solid 26k from the condi build without alacrity means they shouldn’t have a problem with DPS checks.

I liked the all guard kill and I saw the all ele run a while back, was hilarious to see such a casual kill of Matthias. I dunno how they managed to stay “focused” for over an hour for that.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

There’s only maybe ranger where things might get dicey because their DPS is just as bad as mesmers, every other class won’t have to worry about DPS checks or spiking damage.

Are you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOJqxW1xdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhmVLWNjDpk

I’ve only seen Guardian, Necro, and Ele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rwQoPac_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQ_bcuu-3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

I stand corrected, pretty solid 26k from the condi build without alacrity means they shouldn’t have a problem with DPS checks.

I liked the all guard kill and I saw the all ele run a while back, was hilarious to see such a casual kill of Matthias. I dunno how they managed to stay “focused” for over an hour for that.

Have you seen 10 healing tempest against Slothasor yet? Its pretty funny

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

There’s only maybe ranger where things might get dicey because their DPS is just as bad as mesmers, every other class won’t have to worry about DPS checks or spiking damage.

Are you sure about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOJqxW1xdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhmVLWNjDpk

I’ve only seen Guardian, Necro, and Ele.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12rwQoPac_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQ_bcuu-3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9CKhI_g7ng

I stand corrected, pretty solid 26k from the condi build without alacrity means they shouldn’t have a problem with DPS checks.

I liked the all guard kill and I saw the all ele run a while back, was hilarious to see such a casual kill of Matthias. I dunno how they managed to stay “focused” for over an hour for that.

Have you seen 10 healing tempest against Slothasor yet? Its pretty funny

Nobody has time to watch that…literally =D

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Sped up and commentary for the Sloth Kill.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Sped up and commentary for the Sloth Kill.

Darn ele’s breaking the game again!