Guild Wars 2

18k in a couple of seconds with zero risk. You are kidding me.

Sure im running all berserkers or rampagers, but im lucky if I crit for 4k. And I would need a miracle for someone to stand next to my warden long enough for it to crit up to 6k, assuming the wind didnt change and blow him away.

Also got hit by warriors kill shot for 11.6k today.

Ive had enough, ill level up my alt thief till this game becomes thief wars 2.

You got lucky, that’s a really low damage kill shot :p

But yeah, you’ve made the right move. It’s no surprise seeing full thief groups running around. My buddies, when all running around as thieves, would probably hound me to roll a thief if my mesmer wasn’t so handy to have along :p

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

I dunno, backstab thieves are probably one of the easiest matches as a shatter mesmer. I fear conservative healy thieves a lot more, but those specs takes at least some effort on the part of the thief.

Nero has the right on this one. This combo will certainly kill you….but it is a 1-off attack and easily dodged. If they use devourer venom (most don’t) then you can’t actually dodge it, but when I see the incoming damage, I almost always hit mirror images and immediate distortion, or blurred frenzy.

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

No, it should read:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION 11k Backstab

They don’t care if you invu, they can just try again 1sec later, a missed backstab doesnt break stealth…

Prelude.3817:

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

No, it should read:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION 11k Backstab

They don’t care if you invu, they can just try again 1sec later, a missed backstab doesnt break stealth…

The whole point is that it is a sneak attack. Once you know they are there, if they can actually land the backstab properly, you are playing mesmer wrong. The stealth doesn’t last very long, and you can start going on the offensive almost immediately. Drop chaos storm for an aegis, use shatter distortion or blurred frenzy, whichever one you hadn’t used yet for another invulnerability, pop to greatsword for a knockback, just dodge roll around, blink away, or anything else really. They will lose their stealth, and then you can go to town on them.

Not the point, I beat about 50% of the thieves I see first. The rest just skip off with numerous escape mechanics.
I beat NONE of the thieves that see me first 1v1. We are talking 2-2.5 seconds. If im lucky distortion-decoy buys me time but that steal often eats 30% of my health, and from then its an up hill struggle..
Anyway the point is, Huge damage should equal Huge risk. I see very little risk. And rather than whinge about it, ill simply play my mesmer till my eyes roll then skip to my alt and kill anyone I want at very little risk.

What exactly are you doing during that 2-2.5 seconds? Sounds like it’s only huge damage if you let it be huge damage…

Sure, these guys can back off if their attack fails; in fact, they will do so because they have zero staying power in a fight. They may not have taken on much risk but they have given up something, and if everyone knew how to counter this kind of attack there’d be a lot less of these kinds of thieves because they’d never actually win a fight.

Glass cannon backstab thieves have exactly one way they’re going to be coming at you, and they’re very fragile once you survive it. Mesmer might be the best profession at surviving that one angle because of our huge amount of escapes.

Times like this I wish there was an easy dueling option, because trying a glass cannon backstab thief against a shatter mesmer would show you how few options that spec of thief has against you, and it relies on you being asleep at the wheel.

For me the biggest problem with thieves is not 1 vs 1. With their BS combo damage now adjusted a bit, I haven’t dropped instantly. Still, most times I see it coming and then the thief is in serious trouble.

The problem arises when you’re fighting someone else. You have a good fight going and suddenly just drop dead and see a thief appear. No other class can end fights as fast as thief can without any real warning. Warriors can sometimes land their full 100b, but that you usually see coming from mile away.

I don’t like PvP where you have no time to react to a changing situation, i.e adjust to fight two people, try to escape, just have few moments to re-evaluate the situation.

Aussie here so latency isnt as good as native server users. IF you dont see them coming your first second is realising you are underattack, attempt to decoy/distort. But lets say they are venom. 2 extra seconds is more than enough with that damage. Anyway your missing the kitten loven obvious, RISK VS REWARD. Im a glass cannon just like they are, give me 18k worth of crits in 2.5 seconds and the ability to multi stealth away.
Least a warrior / ele goes down in a blaze of glory

Lol at all the people who smartass about how the guy should react. You can’t react. You’re fighting a warrior, he gets you below 70%. Suddenly you’re downed and a thief appears next to you. That’s how it goes.

Are you complaining about your 2-second delay or finding yourself in a 2 vs. 1? Either way, these are uphill situations, and against any other class or build it might not matter what your reaction speed is if you’re caught in the middle of a fight.

Besides, if you decide to play the thief how are you going to land a backstab with that lag?

I play a Mesmer in sPvP and tPvP, if you would log-in on my account right now and open the pvp window you will see a great big ball of purple. I have not played any of the classes and got 100 tpvp games and 200 spvp games roughly under my belt. I have only encountered 3 thieves that could kill me consistently! (meaning 80-90% of the time I’m winning, unless its a 2-3 v 1 which now seriously this is a team game and I expect to die in those situations).

1st Thief: First week of guild wars, I did not understand that my confusion build sucks in pvp
2nd Thief: A thief on in tourneys he played a completely different game from any other rogue I ever encountered, it was backstab but he never missed a hit, he always stopped when needed, kited when needed and basically handed me the beginner manual and sent me back to Mesmer school.
3rd Thief: Is one of my friends, he wins about 75% against me…but if he misses even one skill, I lay the hurt on him. And I watched him play and he is having the worst time just staying alive and running around, thieves without a team are basically crap.

Call me ignorant for not considering thievs op! Last night I was helping my gf with her pvp daily, and we got set in different teams in sPvP and we got 300-0…then I swapped to her team and I still won with 100 point difference… people would just come at me at that point and say mesmers are OP… the guardian on their team actually did that and proceeded in calling my mother a kitten and reported me for playing a mesmer, the rest of his team didn’t share the same opinion since they were 2 mesmers and a thief and I didn’t die once in that game.

It’s sad that people come and complain so so so much on these forums and there is so much hate going around… instead of just playing the game and working around problems and when there is no longer a work around a certain build or tactic than we can call it unbalanced and call nerfs on it.

Enjoy your game people. I know I’ll enjoy it in my ignorance, with the class I chose for GW2 form my experience with GW1.

I can’t even count how many times I have fought a thief and get him down to 20% before they burst me down. Then in my downed state I’ll stack the confusion and summon phantasm and get the win.

Kilauea.4217:

I can’t even count how many times I have fought a thief and get him down to 20% before they burst me down. Then in my downed state I’ll stack the confusion and summon phantasm and get the win.

An encounter like this is as far removed from the original complaint as possible, and having this happen to you simply means you are not particularly experienced at pvping.

SoggyFrog.4170:

Are you complaining about your 2-second delay or finding yourself in a 2 vs. 1? Either way, these are uphill situations, and against any other class or build it might not matter what your reaction speed is if you’re caught in the middle of a fight.

Besides, if you decide to play the thief how are you going to land a backstab with that lag?

It’s not about 2v1 it about the fact that the thief drops 70% of HP off you before you even see him. The same scenario doesn’t apply to other classes. With every other class you at least have the ability to do something.

I doesn’t have to be 2v1. It could be you running away from a fight slightly damaged. Bam, downed. Out of nowhere. No other class can do that. Every kittening skill on their bar crits in 5K+ and their stupid steal crits for 5.6k./

Kabooky.8071:

Aussie here so latency isnt as good as native server users. IF you dont see them coming your first second is realising you are underattack, attempt to decoy/distort. But lets say they are venom. 2 extra seconds is more than enough with that damage. Anyway your missing the kitten loven obvious, RISK VS REWARD. Im a glass cannon just like they are, give me 18k worth of crits in 2.5 seconds and the ability to multi stealth away.
Least a warrior / ele goes down in a blaze of glory

I’m Aussie, a mesmer, a glass cannon and I do “18k worth of crits in 2.5 seconds” and “multi-stealth away” all the time

I also die if I make a mistake fighting a glass canon thief. The thief also dies if he makes a mistake. It all comes down to who screws up first imo.

You both have a wide array of ways to avoid damage, both deal massive damage and both shatter like glass if you screw up.

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

You are exactly correct. If your running from A to B, at full health, sword/focus/blink/decoy(as is typical traveling for us), and important things are off cooldown… then this is how you should train yourself to respond.

ManCaptain.3154

Lol at all the people who smartass about how the guy should react. You can’t react. You’re fighting a warrior, he gets you below 70%. Suddenly you’re downed and a thief appears next to you. That’s how it goes.

But this is how it goes most of the time. It’s a group pvp or WvW game, You arn’t dueling thieves…there isn’t even a duel function in the game.

More often then not, you will be fighting someone off a point or engaging in group fights. You will get hurt. Your abilities will go on cooldown. You will inexplicably drop from 50-70 health with no chance to react. You will get stomped from stealth and not even be able to create a clone because creating a downed clone requires a target(*and an invisible “hit” as of last patch).

There is a reason spvp is often 50% thieves. tpvp and wvw groups are shifting more in that direction with roamers as well. Thieves end fights. It’s often not because individually anyone was outplayed by the thief, its a simple byproduct of what they are designed to do.

(sure an argument could be made to bring your own thieves or devote your builds to countering them, but that’s a meta issue.)

Put 15 into chaos to help you get some breathing time. The regen will proc the protection is great vs. any class with high burst damage.

Pay attention, you should be able to see the vast majority of thieves coming and be ready. If you did… then your reaction time was also slow… you should have blinked away or distorted before he got all of that in. When I’m in any PvP my finger is always on one of those two buttons.

Once they fix mesmer you should be able to outplay them from there. Stealth when they stealth if you can and watch your phantoms (they’ll go for him before they render in). Keep your distance and be ready to distort/blink/retreat quickly again. I use a sword with pistol offhand as one of my weapon sets and it helps a LOT with burst damage class, burst damage on them and survival. Once they appear I will cc->moa then a thief will die VERY fast without his stealth skills.

God just talking about this makes me miss my mesmer I hope they fix this rubbish dodge/blind/block and the dmg bugs soon.

Hastur.6231:

I play a Mesmer in sPvP and tPvP, if you would log-in on my account right now and open the pvp window you will see a great big ball of purple. I have not played any of the classes and got 100 tpvp games and 200 spvp games roughly under my belt. I have only encountered 3 thieves that could kill me consistently! (meaning 80-90% of the time I’m winning, unless its a 2-3 v 1 which now seriously this is a team game and I expect to die in those situations).

1st Thief: First week of guild wars, I did not understand that my confusion build sucks in pvp
2nd Thief: A thief on in tourneys he played a completely different game from any other rogue I ever encountered, it was backstab but he never missed a hit, he always stopped when needed, kited when needed and basically handed me the beginner manual and sent me back to Mesmer school.
3rd Thief: Is one of my friends, he wins about 75% against me…but if he misses even one skill, I lay the hurt on him. And I watched him play and he is having the worst time just staying alive and running around, thieves without a team are basically crap.

Call me ignorant for not considering thievs op! Last night I was helping my gf with her pvp daily, and we got set in different teams in sPvP and we got 300-0…then I swapped to her team and I still won with 100 point difference… people would just come at me at that point and say mesmers are OP… the guardian on their team actually did that and proceeded in calling my mother a kitten and reported me for playing a mesmer, the rest of his team didn’t share the same opinion since they were 2 mesmers and a thief and I didn’t die once in that game.

It’s sad that people come and complain so so so much on these forums and there is so much hate going around… instead of just playing the game and working around problems and when there is no longer a work around a certain build or tactic than we can call it unbalanced and call nerfs on it.

Enjoy your game people. I know I’ll enjoy it in my ignorance, with the class I chose for GW2 form my experience with GW1.

If you can’t see that a class like thief was/is a problem in PvP environment (where casuals are also involved), I don’t consider you a good player, no matter how good you are in actual combat. PvP is also about meta. And if one starting player can win with a push of a button (2) against other starting player who needs several rotations, yeah, something is wrong. It will alienate some new players from PvP and at the same time give some starting players illusion that they are good and don’t need to better themselves.

Extremely high burst, one-shot, kb/kd lock kills, stun lock kills, etc. have been a bane of so many mmo’s that it’s not even funny. And they still repeat the same mistakes.

Kilauea.4217:

I can’t even count how many times I have fought a thief and get him down to 20% before they burst me down. Then in my downed state I’ll stack the confusion and summon phantasm and get the win.

You know a thief can stomp you while stealthed?

You can’t even use your downed skill #2 to teleport away since this requires a target. Too bad the thief is invisible, no target for you. Can’t attack him, can’t summon your phantasm. A second later you are dead anyway …

In other words: The thieves you fought didn’t even know how to play their class, otherwise they would have destroyed you.

I find it ridicioulus that thieves have the best downed state skills AND the best ways to nullify other ppls downed skills.

Add that to the list of countless advantages the thief class has …

Well tbh I kinda sure somone could write a thred like this after faced shatter mesmers like Nero, Flips or me for that sake.

OMG!!!

- I was fighting this warrior and at 90% hp suddenly I got a stun and cripple then BAM I got hit for 20k + dmg and downed by a mesmer jumping out from nowere.

Serious, its not the thiefs that jump in and stay at target thats a problem, they we nuke down as fast as they nuke us but we got more defenses. Its the good thiefs that like us juke in do dmg and juke out tat we should worry about.

I know to some its hard to hear somone say “you can counter and kill thiefs if you do it correct” but dont take it as critisism to your personal game skills. What Nero and I for that sake say is that there is ways to counter thiefs. I for once do it al time in wvwvw, the out of nowere kills is not so many when you start to kow what to look for.

Also 5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION dont stop there, as soon distorsion its——> Swap to staff, chaos field staff 2 chaos armour etc ect and we on a fight we can handle.

Yes thiefs kill ppl fast, but alos mesmers kill thiefs even faster.

Yes our class is comre complicated than other classes, to do good we need to play smarter but a higher skill cap give room to with higher skill outplay alot of the other classes.

Kabooky.8071:

Aussie here so latency isnt as good as native server users. IF you dont see them coming your first second is realising you are underattack, attempt to decoy/distort. But lets say they are venom. 2 extra seconds is more than enough with that damage. Anyway your missing the kitten loven obvious, RISK VS REWARD. Im a glass cannon just like they are, give me 18k worth of crits in 2.5 seconds and the ability to multi stealth away.
Least a warrior / ele goes down in a blaze of glory

Glass canon spec complaining about dieing fast… /rollseyes

As a mesmer I have zero problems with theifs. I especially love the glass canon theifs becuase I eat them up. They can’t even escape most of the time becuase they cloak with diversion and a ton of conditions ticking on them. Only to reappear a few seconds later in a downed state since they have so little health.

You complain about Risk vs Reward. Mesmer glass canon is way less risky then thief. Mesmer can still be very tanky even in glass canon. The trade off is we have to ramp our dmg up a little more then other classes. We also have 1kittenP in a glass canon gear. Theif has like 13K. We can still dump out massive burst dmg given the right circumstances.

Sword 3 > Sword 2 > Shatter(combine this with Mirror images and you have close to the the same burst potential that theif does.

If you are dieing to theifs that get the jump on you 100% of the time as you claim then you are doing something seriously wrong and need to find a different class because Mesmer is not your thing.

Side note. If you want to be a good thief killer. Go with Engi. I feel like a well played Engi is the anti theif. Plus with the AoE they get and perma swiftness they can often get thiefs trying to escape.

Prelude.3817:

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

No, it should read:
5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION 11k Backstab

They don’t care if you invu, they can just try again 1sec later, a missed backstab doesnt break stealth…

First off, if you were smart enough to use distortion (which seems like half this thread doesn’t know enough to use it) you should know enough not to stand still while you have distortion up. MOVE AWAY. Obviously you know he’s there. He’s aiming to backstab. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to understand.

What’s that.. he can stealth again?!! Omg. You have stealth to as a mes?? And you have clones that will break his stealth if he attacks the wrong one? Omg.

These “thief is OP” threads are getting old real fast.

Also this:
—> Glass cannon spec complaining about dying too fast… <—

The irony. Everyone knows thief counters other glass cannons.

First off, if you were smart enough to use distortion (which seems like half this thread doesn’t know enough to use it) you should know enough not to stand still while you have distortion up. MOVE AWAY. Obviously you know he’s there. He’s aiming to backstab. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to understand.

2 words: Basilisk Venom.

I envy all those trying to give advices to the OP. Seems like you play against bad thieves all the time.

A good tourny thief will just kill you in less than 1sec. You can’t react most of the time, he’ll take you off guard. Your only chance is to anticipate his combo. And even if you see it coming, you may not have the right cd to counter him.

I was watching some TP stream sooner, where this thief was instagibbing them.
They were discussing about counters, something like this:
“- OMG I was seeing him! There was no way I could have avoided that…
I need to dodge when he does it but it’s pure luck.
– Yeah you just have to get lucky…”

That pretty much sums it all up.

Far from me to complain about it, it’s just…what thieves do. And the actual entire combo is on a pretty long cd anyway (around 40secs traited), it’s not like doing 8-10k damage on a 11sec cd

Can also reccomend my guide if you want some help find ways to kill thiefs. I cover this in many of my movies, have a 1 vs 1 longer fight in end om my latest movie aswell.

Guide (several movies about thiefs in it):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/guide-WvWvW-Shatter-cat/page/2#post804597

Lates movie with 1 vs 1 thief in end and some other thiefs in 2nd fight

Sonnet.9840:

If you can’t see that a class like thief was/is a problem in PvP environment (where casuals are also involved), I don’t consider you a good player, no matter how good you are in actual combat.

Well said.

There is way too much discussion about how everyone (except the thief players of course) should learn to play and stuff. But in reality, every veteran MMO player can clearly see how overpowered and game-breaking thieves in their current state actually are.

Nero play high lvl tournament, I play wvwvw where there is no high lvl place but I play it alot and kinda sure I do ok. To call ppl trying to giving advice and show there is ways to make it work bad just cause we dont agree the fight is lost premature is as wrong as it would be for us to call ppl with a problem vs thiefs bad instead of help. But sure, again I claim there is many ways to counter thiefs and we dont have a special problem vs em, so guess I need to face facts, I am a bad mesmer ;-)

Kabooky.8071:

18k in a couple of seconds with zero risk. You are kidding me.

Sure im running all berserkers or rampagers, but im lucky if I crit for 4k. And I would need a miracle for someone to stand next to my warden long enough for it to crit up to 6k, assuming the wind didnt change and blow him away.

Also got hit by warriors kill shot for 11.6k today.

Ive had enough, ill level up my alt thief till this game becomes thief wars 2.

I would suggest that you go and play thief, as that class is aimed at less experienced or players new to the genre. Mesmer is more of a ‘high skill’ class with a hard learning curve.

Don’t feel bad, it’s just not for you that’s all.

Play a thief or warrior with the rest of the idi- errrr, I mean, the rest of the cool guys. Byebye now~

I just got killed by a thief in less than a second! I didnt even have time to dodge, all i saw is that im hit and than a stomping thief… well i wasnt on my mesmer, but my necro, still 20k hp and 2600 armor and not even time to react! How is anybody bad who cannot counter that kitten, he didnt even used venoms, no need when u can kill in less time than ur target can react…

This is obviously balanced because a Thief’s Phantasms can be blocked/dodged.

Nero play high lvl tournament, I play wvwvw where there is no high lvl place but I play it alot and kinda sure I do ok. To call ppl trying to giving advice and show there is ways to make it work bad just cause we dont agree the fight is lost premature is as wrong as it would be for us to call ppl with a problem vs thiefs bad instead of help. But sure, again I claim there is many ways to counter thiefs and we dont have a special problem vs em, so guess I need to face facts, I am a bad mesmer ;-)

I didn’t say you were bad, I said the thieves you’re facing may be.
Plus W3 kinda is a different setup.

But if the BS thief wants to stay in a fight where he failed his opener, he sure is bad.

So yeah, once in a while you get instagibbed without the time or ressources to react. Once again, that’s what they’re for.

Snoxx.7943:

Sonnet.9840:

If you can’t see that a class like thief was/is a problem in PvP environment (where casuals are also involved), I don’t consider you a good player, no matter how good you are in actual combat.

Well said.

There is way too much discussion about how everyone (except the thief players of course) should learn to play and stuff. But in reality, every veteran MMO player can clearly see how overpowered and game-breaking thieves in their current state actually are.

I don’t even…what… ?

You too seem to be talking about two different things yet supporting each others opinions…

Sonnet is basically saying I’m a bad player cause thiefs are not a problem for me, or that I do not consider them a problem so that makes me a bad player…what ?! Because pvp should be casual !? or because its played by casual players ?!

So basically if I’d be a soccer fan and I’d play soccer against Arsenal… They need to be nerfed… or … I just don’t get the casual argument honestly. It’s pvp…

So I can only deduce that what Snoxx is adding to sonnets comment is that rogues don’t need to l2p just other professions. And that is basically his gripe with this.

Well if you read the post to which Sonnet actually replied you would have noticed that my friend that is a thief is basically one of the only thieves that can kill me 75% of the time and he has to WORK for it, I watch him play and he clicks and spams around as much as a mesmer.

I used to not care much about these thief specs as I too was running about with the usual mesmer tricks.

When you try other specs that do not employ the normal array of escapes there is definately a period of adjustment. I am now starting to die in these 2 or 3 hits same as other classes. Not always, but I am understanding the frustration other people have experienced.

Hastur.6231:

Snoxx.7943:

Sonnet.9840:

If you can’t see that a class like thief was/is a problem in PvP environment (where casuals are also involved), I don’t consider you a good player, no matter how good you are in actual combat.

Well said.

There is way too much discussion about how everyone (except the thief players of course) should learn to play and stuff. But in reality, every veteran MMO player can clearly see how overpowered and game-breaking thieves in their current state actually are.

I don’t even…what… ?

You too seem to be talking about two different things yet supporting each others opinions…

Sonnet is basically saying I’m a bad player cause thiefs are not a problem for me, or that I do not consider them a problem so that makes me a bad player…what ?! Because pvp should be casual !? or because its played by casual players ?!

So basically if I’d be a soccer fan and I’d play soccer against Arsenal… They need to be nerfed… or … I just don’t get the casual argument honestly. It’s pvp…

So I can only deduce that what Snoxx is adding to sonnets comment is that rogues don’t need to l2p just other professions. And that is basically his gripe with this.

Well if you read the post to which Sonnet actually replied you would have noticed that my friend that is a thief is basically one of the only thieves that can kill me 75% of the time and he has to WORK for it, I watch him play and he clicks and spams around as much as a mesmer.

I’m saying that when new players start PvP, thief is extremely strong because their burts is extremely high and easy to execute. This is very discouraging for players that start with other classes.

When you move higher up, thieves are still a problem cause their ability to burst players down don’t diminish, people just learn to avoid it better. Still, thieves have the element of supprise on their side.

At the top most level a good player is a good player and the class differences start to disappear. Also teams work together thus helping to prevent insta gibs, that were still widely reported on other threads by tournament players, at least before the Nov. 15th patch.

This is not just thief issue however. For me, allowing very high bursts from any class, including mesmer, narrows the versatility of viable builds and classes down as well as tactical gameplay (by which I mean timed bursts that includes several players instead of one, for example). On the opposing ends are bunkers and glass cannons. I think that toning down both ends creates more interesting middle ground, where some are tankier and some are burstier, but room is left for pressure builds, team support builds and defensive builds (not bunkers) as well. Also, the learning curve of the classes is more balanced leaving players more room to observe and enjoy their advancement in skill no matter what class and build they play.

edit: What I was aiming at saying that you were a bad player is not because of your skill in PvP, your personal ability to deal with bursts, but because, in my opinion, you failed to see the bigger picture. I apologize that I called you a bad player. It’s always cheap to use insults

sPvP with it’s lessened group interaction and such is probably a bad way to compare these setups. If a Thief can only do this once every 3 minutes or so, it’d be quite balanced in WvW, since single target sniping needs to be done just right to have strategic impact (the commander of a moving army :P ).

Bravo Sonnet for a perfectly civilized and constructive argument.

I see where your coming from but IMO no game pulls punches when it comes to pvp unless it has a progression system (i.e. LoL only being able to play weekly heros and being ranked with people of same experience, starcraft leagues, wow arena ladders). GW gives you all the gear in the form of an amulet and just throws you in the game, there really is no easy way to get into pvp.

Which leads to the design of the classes, thieves can’t seem to find their place from what people say. I mean besides the “burst” there is nothing they can bring to the table. Every class can find its spot (some have really bad spots to fill like rangers :/) but thieves just seem like thats the only thing going for them, I mean every thief in the forum was getting ready to migrate to daze lock spec (e perfectly acceptable sustained cc support spec) and ANet nerfed that instantly… I donno maybe that type of anti-game where you lock down someone was not intended…yet I still see guardians keep knowing people on their butts with shields and hammers and it has the same effect as the daze only with the added bonus of keeping opposition of the point. Until they can find a spot for the thief to fill up (and the ranger) I can’t honestly whine about their burst with a clear conscience.

EDIT: oh and also everyone spec-ing instantly for berserk when they pick up pvp is not helping.

Sonnet.9840:

… For me, allowing very high bursts from any class, including mesmer, narrows the versatility of viable builds and classes down as well as tactical gameplay (by which I mean timed bursts that includes several players instead of one, for example). …

When I read this, a sad tear washed my face. Gone are the times of team spikes in GvG @ ~1:59… Now we all try to burst individually.

As of today I have 87 qualifying points. I definitely fight the best thieves GW2 has to offer. One of them is on my team. I practice against him a lot.

Essentially the whole backstab combo is a skill check. If they do it to you and you do nothing to defuse it that thief will be at your home point instagibbing you all game. Where as if you see the swords go up on your point(assuming you didnt see the thief before hand) you equip your sword offhand, open portal, hit block go through portal, block steal, block venom, pop distortion to avoid the backstab damage, and see the thief run away only to return to make you pop you portal.

There are so many things you can do to prevent this. If you don’t react properly you will die. If you don’t react properly you deserve to die.

ManCaptain.3154:

It’s not about 2v1 it about the fact that the thief drops 70% of HP off you before you even see him.

Situational awareness – get some. No stealth skill lasts long enough to run all the way up to an enemy without him seeing you coming before stealthing. Not to mention that if he is stealthed when he first attacks he will not be able to do Steal/C&D/Backstab because he will still have Revealed when doing C&D unless he waits 3 seconds between the Steal and the C&D.

Lol, it’s fun to read replies of some kids around here. At first, i completly agree with OP, my primary is thief, full exotic, ful berserker, but build is healing/dmg, so i keep incredible dureability with cloaking/regen when cloaked, longer cloak and still keep backstab betwen 10k-8k on soft and 8k-6k on heavy. I laugh at those zealously defending thief . no offence but that class is completly broken for pvp, mainly when you know thief well as me and staret other classes like warrior, now have it on 80 and mesmer 80, what i can achieve on mesmer with mega-combinations of buttons, i can easily get repeated button mash on thief :P

To be honest and to tell you truth, thief is still incredible Op. I never play spvp but very often Wvw, so far i got owned only by warrior/guardian and only because i went berserk regardless of Hp. I never really found equal match except few rare mesmers and other thieves.

Right now i tried mesmer for the first time in wvw to see how it is liuke and what do you think… thief… and listen to this… 9k stealth, over 7k cloak and dagger and LOL 15k backstab… I do not know even how it is possible, when i use full glass cannon, with max food, util, sigil, bloodlust max i get best 12k backstab. It’s funno to see fellow thieves to defend the class how it is fine and all and how it is fragile and stuiff. I tell you this, i am glascannon and with stealth regen i am durable enough to match anything.

I am very disapointed how many lies are going around these forums, sigh. Stealth immunity btw doesn’t solve anything,l it activates when activating stealth not when leaving stealth. Thus with traited longer stealth you can stay stealth forewer with just good tining of cloak and dagger (of course necesary to trait 2 init refund when cusing stealth skill). That is why there are so many thieves who are 25 % only visible during battle.

The whole concept of thiefe vs other classes is broken for me. With basilisk venom, 90% ppl are just firsty combo downed :/. Not really fun any more. Btw again.. lies by many thieves… you can activate cloak and dagger before you hit stealth, thus it lands 1ms after stealth and the person has 0% to react for the attack followed byh backstab

I just hope i am nto the only thiefe who is disgusted by so many lies going around here about thieve class… i honestly think thief is broken by it’s weird mechanic atm. But of course there will always be those who claim how thiefe is ok and that it is fine and balanced oh well..

Well, unless anet does something serious about class balancing, i am shelving the game also because it is not really wun for me in Wvw anyh more. I must say i agree that soon it will be thiefwars 2 :P no reason at all to play other class than thief atm, and make thief only groups :> ( wtg haste+dagger storm) :P

p.s. excuse grammar errors and typos, English is not my native language

Well thieves have all kinds of issues with necroes. You can do what they do and have huge hp and toughness pool as your build. But you give something up for that. It is a trade off.

In a 1 v 2 a good necro will give thieves fits. This is in WvW and he used NPC guards to defeat the small thief group. You can’t spec to fight everything.

Show me a spec just as effective as backstab for my thief and I’ll use it.

fadeaway.2807:

Show me a spec just as effective as backstab for my thief and I’ll use it.

You just admitted backstab is borked. If it’s so “effective” that no other spec comes close, it’s broken.

Just observed in sPvP: 4v4, and all 4 on the enemy team were thieves. It wasn’t even funny anymore. I heard the sound of daggers and was insta-dead. And I think I know how to handle my mesmer.

Mjk.7562:

Stealth immunity btw doesn’t solve anything,l it activates when activating stealth not when leaving stealth.

No it doesn’t. Please try to get a clue before just making stuff up. ‘Revealed’ always activates when leaving stealth, but only when you leave stealth by doing damage. This means it is possible to chain stealth but only if you don’t actually damage anyone which makes it pretty useless in combat.

Now, now, the concept of stealth has always been a great and most welcome an addition to every game, but especially to pvp-oriented games. It adds a whole new level of strategy and depth to the game, because you must always expect the unexpected and react accordingly.
If you have failed to do so, it was your own fault for not seeing that thief coming in stealth from behind a corner when you were fighting that warrior/necromancer/mesmer/elementalist/engineer/ranger/guardian(s) while dodging trebuchet shots/cc/shatter spikes/mines/bombs/pets/projectiles/phantasms (well, whats left of them)/minions (those exist, too!)/other random aoe. Also, wvw, as an extremely competitive pve area that will be the next esport, is a sound indicator of what is (not) broken.

Anyone who dares thinking the opposite is to be declared a heretical no-name nab and sentenced to immediate uninstalling (rejoice, there is always Hello Kitty/Tetris to keep you busy!) or face death by stoning from a horde of thieves.

fadeaway.2807:

Show me a spec just as effective as backstab for my thief and I’ll use it.

The point is to get Backstab less effective, not the rest more effect.