Guild Wars 2

Assuming we don’t see any “sneak nerfs,” this isn’t bad:

Mesmer:
-Null Field: Reduced the recharge to 40 seconds.
-Signet of Domination: Increased the stun duration to 3 seconds.

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/july-23-content-release-notes/

Scrolling through the huge amount of changes for other classes, then seeing the Mesmer changelog…

At least no nerf, eh?

tetrodoxin.2134:

Scrolling through the huge amount of changes for other classes, then seeing the Mesmer changelog…

At least no nerf, eh?

Still better than Elementalists, who only received text corrections

Though its not a mesmer change, the change to centaur runes is helpful since mesmers need to use it more than most other classes.

I have to confess, I saw the words “Null Field” under the word “Mesmer” and went into full panic mode…

“OH GOD, THEY’VE NERFED NULL FIELD TOO – IS NOTHING SACRED?!”

Took me a full few seconds to release this was actually… a buff?! I didn’t know how to feel.

Admittedly the rest of the classes got a tonne of changes – mostly buffs – but still, not being actively directly nerfed felt really good.

It’s the difference between getting a pay cut, and getting a pay rise that’s too small to cover inflation, but psychologically it’s a huge improvement.

\o/

I’m always scared when I’m looking at patch notes (the balance part), and now I’m really surprised that we didn’t get nerfed – I believe it’s the first time since release :O

Tiny changes, but finally no nerfs so I don’t mind….

Hyung.6140:

I have to confess, I saw the words “Null Field” under the word “Mesmer” and went into full panic mode…

“OH GOD, THEY’VE NERFED NULL FIELD TOO – IS NOTHING SACRED?!”

Took me a full few seconds to release this was actually… a buff?! I didn’t know how to feel.

Ahaha, same here.

The SoD buff … 3 second stun, up from 2?? Drooling.

There will always be stealth nerfs, people. After 10 months of gameplay, I can’t take patchnotes seriously anymore. lolz

I always come check the profession forum post to find out what the unmentioned changes were :-/

Anyone want to take bets on whether or not they fixed Mind Stab doing less damage if YOU have a boon?

Why is the warrior have easy access of torment on a DIRECT skill and we have it on a blocking skill ? Seriously, I’m not even start to…

Good for the 3 sec stun and Null Field buff.

Gaiawolf.8261:

Though its not a mesmer change, the change to centaur runes is helpful since mesmers need to use it more than most other classes.

Which is unfortunate that we have to use these runes to keep up with others.

Anet wants ‘build diversity’ but after the last few rounds of nerfs, it feels we have less viable and effective builds than ever.

So…

+ no nerfs!
+ minimal better condition cleanse
+ unneeded buff to an already good signet

- still no out-of-combat mobility
- still no reliable swiftness apart from focus
- our traitlines are still a mess
- still a lot of bugged/unclarified traits (iElasticity, …)
- useless buffs/boons on random skills/traits
- weapons that don’t know if they want to be condi or power
- too high cds on a lot of skills
- phantasm specs still op in 1v1

Well, that’s most likely the best patch we will ever get, so i guess we should be happy.

On top of this is the new ranger stealth:

mesmer (usual stealth-build without Veil)
- decoy: 3s stealth every 40s → 9s/120s
- prestige: 3s stealth every 30s → 12s/120s
- Massinvis: 5s stealth every 90s → ~7s/120s
→ 28s stealth every 120s

ranger
- LB #3: 3s stealth every 12s → 30s/120s
→ 30s stealth every 120s

This is without taking traits, BUT:
- we need 45 traitpoints to get -20% cd on 2 of 3 stealth skills (cleansing conflagration + iCelerity).
- we can’t take both cd reduction traits + PU since that would cost 75 traitpoints.
- ranger needs 20 traitpoints to get -20% cd on his stealth skill + SB if he decides to use double bows.
- ranger uses 1 weapon skill whereas we have to also use 1 utility skill and our elite.
- the ranger -cd trait is in an agressive traitline, while ours are defensive/supportive.

This is not saying that we should get more stealth skills but that our cds are too high and we need to invest a lot more to achieve the same as other classes.

Hyung.6140:

Admittedly the rest of the classes got a tonne of changes – mostly buffs – but still, not being actively directly nerfed felt really good.

It’s the difference between getting a pay cut, and getting a pay rise that’s too small to cover inflation, but psychologically it’s a huge improvement.

\o/

Only the warrior/ranger/mesmers got buffed.

Necros actually got a huge nerf to death shroud with some help to compensate. The condition necros also got nerfed.

Ele/Thieves/Guards/Engineers basically just got text/animation corrections.

Gaiawolf.8261:

Though its not a mesmer change, the change to centaur runes is helpful since mesmers need to use it more than most other classes.

Now fix the rune of altruism plz. Same problem as rune of centaur before this fix.

Centaur Rune fix is godsend for me. Now Mantra of Healing can really give me permanent Swiftness. =)

Iavra.8510:

So…

+ no nerfs!
+ minimal better condition cleanse
+ unneeded buff to an already good signet

- still no out-of-combat mobility
- still no reliable swiftness apart from focus
- our traitlines are still a mess
- still a lot of bugged/unclarified traits (iElasticity, …)
- useless buffs/boons on random skills/traits
- weapons that don’t know if they want to be condi or power
- too high cds on a lot of skills
- phantasm specs still op in 1v1

Well, that’s most likely the best patch we will ever get, so i guess we should be happy.

On top of this is the new ranger stealth:

mesmer (usual stealth-build without Veil)
- decoy: 3s stealth every 40s -> 9s/120s
- prestige: 3s stealth every 30s -> 12s/120s
- Massinvis: 5s stealth every 90s -> ~7s/120s
-> 28s stealth every 120s

ranger
- LB #3: 3s stealth every 12s -> 30s/120s
-> 30s stealth every 120s

This is without taking traits, BUT:
- we need 45 traitpoints to get -20% cd on 2 of 3 stealth skills (cleansing conflagration + iCelerity).
- we can’t take both cd reduction traits + PU since that would cost 75 traitpoints.
- ranger needs 20 traitpoints to get -20% cd on his stealth skill + SB if he decides to use double bows.
- ranger uses 1 weapon skill whereas we have to also use 1 utility skill and our elite.
- the ranger -cd trait is in an agressive traitline, while ours are defensive/supportive.

This is not saying that we should get more stealth skills but that our cds are too high and we need to invest a lot more to achieve the same as other classes.

Keep in mind ranger has to actually hit you for the stealth to take place and not just use a utility skill, and it’s a pretty obvious looking attack skill too , it’s a huge gray streaming arrow that looks much different than a regular longbow attack. Just know that you need to evade that one attack and they’ll be like regular longbow rangers, although your clones can’t dodge, so we’ll just do it to your clones instead but still. :P

Keep in mind ranger has to actually hit you for the stealth to take place

Hmm, does he? I just started a ranger (lvl 20 thanks to achievement chest scroll) and the current Hunter’s Shot applies it’s swiftness even when i’m not hitting anything (no need to even be in combat).

The patch notes state that it applies stealth, there is no mention of “on hit” (apart from the old, now removed, vulnerability). Also it’s quite possible to just shoot straight into the ground or into the air by moving your camera.

That was fast to read. Although the null field change is nice for my pve build, i really start to lose interest.

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

Iavra.8510:

Keep in mind ranger has to actually hit you for the stealth to take place

Hmm, does he? I just started a ranger (lvl 20 thanks to achievement chest scroll) and the current Hunter’s Shot applies it’s swiftness even when i’m not hitting anything (no need to even be in combat).

The patch notes state that it applies stealth, there is no mention of “on hit” (apart from the old, now removed, vulnerability). Also it’s quite possible to just shoot straight into the ground or into the air by moving your camera.

Swiftness was given regardless if it hit or not and it’s to pet only. The vulnerability, which needed to be on hit was replaced by the stealth. I’m sure it’s on hit like it was with the vulnerability application.

no mesmer nerf

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

skcamow.3527:

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

As a spirit condition ranger who also runs a high regen condition trapper build, i really had no issue with any mesmers (except like Corey Goes Shatter) and I’ve fought EXTREMELY GOOD good mesmers. I think mesmers lack condition removal, but they also have alot of defensives that assist with mitigating that but in the end some better condition handling would probably help them out alot – conditions are just too strong to them and ranger provides a good deal of conditions while timing evasion/dodging for their important counter attacks. I still cringe when I see a mesmer use invis with 12 stacks of bleed on him, only to find him on the ground dead after being uncovered.

This is the kind of boring updates we will be seeing with their 2 weeks patches. There’s plenty of crappy traits they could addressed but all they did is a minor buff to two skills. But hey, we got new items on gem store, yay?

Ryan.8367:

skcamow.3527:

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

As a spirit condition ranger who also runs a high regen condition trapper build, i really had no issue with any mesmers (except like Corey Goes Shatter) and I’ve fought EXTREMELY GOOD good mesmers. I think mesmers lack condition removal, but they also have alot of defensives that assist with mitigating that but in the end some better condition handling would probably help them out alot – conditions are just too strong to them and ranger provides a good deal of conditions while timing evasion/dodging for their important counter attacks. I still cringe when I see a mesmer use invis with 12 stacks of bleed on him, only to find him on the ground dead after being uncovered.

Corey goes shatter is a very good mesmer. Having trouble with him is representative of having trouble with any very good mesmer.

For all desperate mesmers i finally managed to create a viable tourny build check it out
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Sensotix-Shatter-Mesmer-TPvP-Guide/first#post2470593

Anet forgot to nerf Mesmer.

Sensotix.4106:

For all desperate mesmers i finally managed to create a viable tourny build check it out
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Sensotix-Shatter-Mesmer-TPvP-Guide/first#post2470593

Not sure why you think creating a viable tourney build is news. Pretty much every competitive team in the game has run with 1 or 2 mesmers since the start of the game, and this has never changed.

You have to admit, mesmers are basically only used because of portal and illusion of life. I would rather see ArenaNet nerf those and work on our weaknesses than making us into toolboxes.

Clyne.9038:

Anet forgot to nerf Mesmer.

Don’t worry, a hotfix is underway – if stealth changes are not already in the package.

hihey.1075:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Scrolling through the huge amount of changes for other classes, then seeing the Mesmer changelog…

At least no nerf, eh?

Still better than Elementalists, who only received text corrections

Not really. Elementalists need a big nerf. They are still in nearly every 5v5 comp, and still a lot of teams are running double elementalist. That says OP.

Confused me a little…. Buffs? To mesmers?? What???

But the buff to Signet of Domination is pretty…. weird…

Why buff that skill? I’m left clueless…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ryan.8367:

skcamow.3527:

bwuki.2175:

am i the only one that feels as if we’re being shafted?

I don’t feel shafted at all. Taking into account all the issues we still have, bugs and all, Anet will work those out and we have to keep them honest of course. But we’re still an incredibly strong class, one of the strongest in the game. In fact, I love hearing about the buffs to Ranger and Warrior. It will make them harder to kill for sure. Just means we mesmers get to meet the challenge and show everyone we’re still in the top tier of professions.

As a spirit condition ranger who also runs a high regen condition trapper build, i really had no issue with any mesmers (except like Corey Goes Shatter) and I’ve fought EXTREMELY GOOD good mesmers. I think mesmers lack condition removal, but they also have alot of defensives that assist with mitigating that but in the end some better condition handling would probably help them out alot – conditions are just too strong to them and ranger provides a good deal of conditions while timing evasion/dodging for their important counter attacks. I still cringe when I see a mesmer use invis with 12 stacks of bleed on him, only to find him on the ground dead after being uncovered.

Corey goes shatter is a very good mesmer. Having trouble with him is representative of having trouble with any very good mesmer.

Well, come to think of it I was always running a direct dmg trap build with divinity runes when I dueled him regularly. condition trapper/spirit build especially with the new keen edge trait rangers have in marksmanship would just mutilate him probably.

Iavra.8510:

You have to admit, mesmers are basically only used because of portal and illusion of life. I would rather see ArenaNet nerf those and work on our weaknesses than making us into toolboxes.

Mesmers are brought because of portal, illusion of life, the best aoe power burst in the game, the best aoe boon stripping in the game.

skcamow.3527:

The SoD buff … 3 second stun, up from 2?? Drooling.

For real. That util was amazing @ 2 seconds. That just sealed the deal for my new build.

So… anyone already found some unannounced nerfs or bugs? ^^

Iavra.8510:

On top of this is the new ranger stealth:

mesmer (usual stealth-build without Veil)
- decoy: 3s stealth every 40s -> 9s/120s
- prestige: 3s stealth every 30s -> 12s/120s
- Massinvis: 5s stealth every 90s -> ~7s/120s
-> 28s stealth every 120s

ranger
- LB #3: 3s stealth every 12s -> 30s/120s
-> 30s stealth every 120s

We’ll see how the ranger stealth plays out, but keep in mind that a ranger must sit in LB for the entire fight based on your math. Another way to calculate would be to assume rangers will activate the skill once per weapon cycle. That’d be 3s/20s or 18s/120s.

Obviously you can critique that calculation too, but just pointing out it isn’t as simple as looking at skill CDs.

Please make scepter autoattack less awful. Speed it up, let it inflict something, give it synergy with something else, anything. Just make it viable, which it will never be the way it is right now.

I like the Null Field buff and helps with my builds. I wonder if there are any stealth nerfs (or buffs)….

Signet of Domination now has a cast-time of 1/4 second, instead of 1 second. Oh my.

I don’t really mind that WAR got torment on their sword off hand (I have honestly never seen a sword off hand WAR before) but doesn’t it just feel wrong? Torment is a condition that is magic based. WAR can cause bleeds because pokey pokey will make anyone bleed but torment is magic. Like i said I don’t mind but I think they broke their lore a bit too much with that one.

Hexxen.7216:

I don’t really mind that WAR got torment on their sword off hand (I have honestly never seen a sword off hand WAR before) but doesn’t it just feel wrong? Torment is a condition that is magic based. WAR can cause bleeds because pokey pokey will make anyone bleed but torment is magic. Like i said I don’t mind but I think they broke their lore a bit too much with that one.

Have you seen sword 4? It’s a giant sword sticking out of the forehead. I would find that rather… tormenting.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Hexxen.7216:

I don’t really mind that WAR got torment on their sword off hand (I have honestly never seen a sword off hand WAR before) but doesn’t it just feel wrong? Torment is a condition that is magic based. WAR can cause bleeds because pokey pokey will make anyone bleed but torment is magic. Like i said I don’t mind but I think they broke their lore a bit too much with that one.

Have you seen sword 4? It’s a giant sword sticking out of the forehead. I would find that rather… tormenting.

Can’t say I have ever been hit by it or used it on my war before but I can see where you are coming from. I just imagined Torment as a mental state thus Mesmer/Necro territory but I forgot Thief got it as well so I guess it works. I retract my statement.

Iavra.8510:

This is without taking traits, BUT:
- we need 45 traitpoints to get -20% cd on 2 of 3 stealth skills (cleansing conflagration + iCelerity).
- we can’t take both cd reduction traits + PU since that would cost 75 traitpoints.
- ranger needs 20 traitpoints to get -20% cd on his stealth skill + SB if he decides to use double bows.
- ranger uses 1 weapon skill whereas we have to also use 1 utility skill and our elite.
- the ranger -cd trait is in an agressive traitline, while ours are defensive/supportive.

This is not saying that we should get more stealth skills but that our cds are too high and we need to invest a lot more to achieve the same as other classes.

I think these are all good points. I think moving illusionists celerity was probably a good call on ANet’s part. Unfortunately, all of the cooldowns were sort of balanced wtih illusionists celerity as a given. Now that it’s moved, many cooldowns feel excessive (especially decoy and mirror images).

All that said, I don’t see mesmer stealth as underpowered. With prismatic understanding, stealth is very useful for mesmers as a buff generator. On top of that, mesmer clones and phantasms get in the way of targeting them. Which makes stealth particularly useful for them. Even vs a good opponent, it may take 1-2 seconds out of stealth before the opponent begins targeting the mesmer. While a mesmer is stealthed, they also do good damage, through clone shatters / condition damage / phantasms. In WvW perma-stealth or near perma-stealth for mesmers means hiding in towers for portals..so this should never be possible (unless coordinating with a thief). Veil and Mass invis affect large groups of people quickly (unlike shadow refuge – which can be very useful in large fights. Take all of those together and stealth for mesmers is much more powerful than it is for thieves, and their access to stealth should be balanced accordingly.

With regards to balance issues – I see the ranger thing more as an affront to thieves than mesmers. Thieves rely very heavily on stealth for survival, but also need to get out of stealth to deal damage (usually at melee range). Then due to the revealed debuff, they need to stay out of stealth for a bit. If they’re using dagger offhand, then they have to land a melee attack to get back into stealth (or blow a longish cooldown). If they are using pistol off-hand, they have to use a ton of initiative (which is equivalent to blowing 2-3 weapon cooldowns). Because of these issues, a stealth based thief may be stealthed 50% of the time while in combat (or they’re just trying to stay alive and not doing any real damage).

Rangers are now getting a free stealth from range on a weapon that is already longer range than anyone else’s. With a pet that gets perma-swiftness (with the same skill) and can hit like a truck. And they get this for about 33% of the time, and they still do damage while stealthed (through the pet). On top of being able to do all of this with a long range weapon, they also get a knockdown and an aoe-cripple-dot.

Simonoly.4352:

Signet of Domination now has a cast-time of 1/4 second, instead of 1 second. Oh my.

This sounds so good to be true. Will test it out soon.

Signet of Domination now has a cast-time of 1/4 second, instead of 1 second. Oh my.

Wasn’t it this way for a while already?

Also, regarding Ranger stealth, we tested the new Hunter’s Shot and it indeed needs to hit for the stealth, kinda offsetting the high stealth uptime a bit. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of gc rangers out there atm, making outmanned fights a lot harder

keenlam.4753:

Simonoly.4352:

Signet of Domination now has a cast-time of 1/4 second, instead of 1 second. Oh my.

This sounds so good to be true. Will test it out soon.

I was able to use it to interrupt a Thief casting Hide in Shadows earlier by using the skill as the Thief was channeling instead of having to pre-empt. So it can actually be used for interrupt builds now, which is great.

Boom.6148:

no mesmer nerf

Phantasmal healing = reduced to 2s from 5s

enjoy !

They really dislike inspiration

Aphrodyte.9354:

Boom.6148:

no mesmer nerf

Phantasmal healing = reduced to 2s from 5s

enjoy !

They really dislike inspiration

Seriously?