Guild Wars 2

After playing through the living works story and facing the last boss, I feel the state of mez is worse than we think and really need a serious do over. I mean a real do over if they continue with all the AOE damages they are adding to the game.

As much as i like the changes to boss fights and the new challenges they bring, as a mez and in my main build could not do it not because of the difficulty level, but could not keep my clones up, to the point died multiple times in my build before changing build gear and weapons to complete it.

I started with s/s and s/f. Clones could not get close and if they did, died fast. Eventually hand to change to s/p gs to finish it.

I don’t think am the only one that encounter this. This further emphasize the fact that we need serious looking into.

If the game development continues like this and no changes is give to use to counter the lose of our clones from AOE effects which in turn will lowers our damage capability then we are in for a very bumpy road ahead.

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

After playing through the living works story and facing the last boss, I feel the state of mez is worse than we think and really need a serious do over. I mean a real do over if they continue with all the AOE damages they are adding to the game.

As much as i like the changes to boss fights and the new challenges they bring, as a mez and in my main build could not do it not because of the difficulty level, but could not keep my clones up, to the point died multiple times in my build before changing build gear and weapons to complete it.

I started with s/s and s/f. Clones could not get close and if they did, died fast. Eventually hand to change to s/p gs to finish it.

I don’t think am the only one that encounter this. This further emphasize the fact that we need serious looking into.

If the game development continues like this and no changes is give to use to counter the lose of our clones from AOE effects which in turn will lowers our damage capability then we are in for a very bumpy road ahead.

It’s tough because they would have to remove clone death traits, which a few popular builds rely on. They could just make clones immune to damage, since they are illusions anyway (they don’t really exist except in the opponents mind so how can they be blown up by a grenade?), but some compensation would have to be made for those on death traits. The on death traits are sweet because they actually punish players who run around mashing buttons and killing your clones.

For me, if they just made clones indestructible I think most people would take illusionary defense instead, which would make that trait probably OP.

Then there are phantasms, which also die fast in aoe like you describe. These things have to be killable because of phantasm builds. If Phants from zerker phantasm builds just ran around doing crazy damage ignoring AoE that would seem OP I think.

But you raise a really important issue, I just don’t have any idea what they should do about it.

Edit: What if they gave us a trait where clones deal direct damage on being killed, since conditions are kinda useless in pve? That way maybe it would be OK if your clones got killed by the boss, as it takes direct dmg when it happens? Wouldn’t be like a mind wrack, but maybe would help.

I’d just like to see them do something about mesmer. I’ve wanted to use staff efficiently for so long and even when traited it’s subpar to any other build.

Actually, I’d like to see them do a little bit of something about every profession. It’s getting dull with no expansion to my deck of cards.

I’d like if they just fix all the kitten bugs that cause us to lose valuable dps! I bet they do not consider the bug dps loss when they continue to nerf us left and right. It’s a shame that some bugs have been there since the start of the game. Anet’s QA is really bad!

I understand what you are all talking about. We all are all saying the same thing.

Bug issue/fixing,
Clone/phantasm /illusion dying fast,
Condition damage almost useless in PVP,

these are all the problems that have existed since the beginning of the game. What does this tell us. It tells me that the Mez class was either rushed to meet dead lines, badly implemented, idea on paper could not translate well in game, too many cooks in the kitchen and not a master Chef or all of the above.

Maybe because we are the last class to be implemented that is why we are so broken, I just don’t know, but that could also add to it.

We all know the devs read the forums and see all the suggestions posted, the thing is how possible is it to implement them without braking something else, or making the class OP or turning the class into something totally different. They have tried doing something multiple time trying to amend the class but time and time again they brake something else another or and add more issue to the class.

And now with how they are adding more fight mechanics and AOE to fight mechanics to stop stacking and how this really affects our illusions and at the same time condition damage is worthless in PVE, I fear the class will be even more relegated to veil and portal. Soon even that will be pointless and then no one will wont a Mez in any PVE/WVW/tPVP.

I don’t know about you guys, but am getting worried.

Remove on-clone traits.

Your clones will play as if they have your skill bar.

This means they can weapon swap, roll dodge, cast things like Feedback, Null Field (as long as you slot them), Mantras, Time Warp.

All of these do absolutely nothing (bar dodging and weapon swap) and are simply for confusion sake. It could get confusing for allies as well, but that’ll have to do.

Also, if you run +Illusion Health, it should buff the health of Clones to be the same as the Mesmer’s (with lower toughness, still). This would make it slightly harder to check if you did more damage (still possible) and also make it harder to distinguish the real Mesmer.

Clones casting clone-generation skills will not spawn clones. Clones will still deal the same amount of damage with their attacks as they do now (0-50). Clones will have access to more damaging skills. All utility skills (6-10) will just be for visuals.
Phantasm skills will not be casted.

Esplen.3940:

Remove on-clone traits.

Your clones will play as if they have your skill bar.

This means they can weapon swap, roll dodge, cast things like Feedback, Null Field (as long as you slot them), Mantras, Time Warp.

All of these do absolutely nothing (bar dodging and weapon swap) and are simply for confusion sake. It could get confusing for allies as well, but that’ll have to do.

Also, if you run +Illusion Health, it should buff the health of Clones to be the same as the Mesmer’s (with lower toughness, still). This would make it slightly harder to check if you did more damage (still possible) and also make it harder to distinguish the real Mesmer.

Clones casting clone-generation skills will not spawn clones. Clones will still deal the same amount of damage with their attacks as they do now (0-50). Clones will have access to more damaging skills. All utility skills (6-10) will just be for visuals.
Phantasm skills will not be casted.

If they’re already having “server problems” because of the amount of clones/pets, I could only imagine the problems they would have making our clones cast more skills.

Where have they said they’ve been having server problems because of pets?

Esplen.3940:

Where have they said they’ve been having server problems because of pets?

Let me see if I can find it, I’ll edit it in the post if I do. It was a comment from a Mod.

I’m sure they’ve said it, but I feel like it’s being misquoted just like the “Play how you want” quote.

Esplen.3940:

I’m sure they’ve said it, but I feel like it’s being misquoted just like the “Play how you want” quote.

What it came down to was with all the transformations and pets it was a big load on the server.

That’s why they added the debuff when you use a transformation now, to relieve stress on the servers. It’s no different then our clones. Having 3 clones up adding 3 more AI on the server is a lot supposedly, adding more skills seems like it would complicate them even more.

Edit: Hopefully someone who remembers this better can chime in. I somewhat forgot it exactly and could be saying it completely wrong.

The only debuff on transforms is for the Watchwork one which was released after the main server optimizations came through. Additionally, with the Embers and Ogre Whistles, I believe that was being abused in WvW to obtain disgusting amounts of numbers in a zerg. With the Ogre Whistles, specifically, they had no duration so you could theoretically have an army of pets following you laying siege to the land.

That’s why it was “unoptimized”.

Esplen.3940:

The only debuff on transforms is for the Watchwork one which was released after the main server optimizations came through. Additionally, with the Embers and Ogre Whistles, I believe that was being abused in WvW to obtain disgusting amounts of numbers in a zerg. With the Ogre Whistles, specifically, they had no duration so you could theoretically have an army of pets following you laying siege to the land.

That’s why it was “unoptimized”.

Like I said I can’t remember exactly what it was. I just know Mesmers didn’t take it very well.

Just sucks that every Mesmer we see that’s an NPC is better than us, even though we’re “The Boss”, “The Commander”, and “The Hero” (of Shaemoor! woo~).

Sure, Queen Jennah can be stronger than us, I’ll accept that. Countess Anise? Unless she has something to do with the storyline (which, keeping in mind that LS wasn’t actually meant to blow up into what it is now, is kind of interesting to think about), doesn’t make sense. Kasmeer is stronger than us. Heck, even Orrian Mesmers are stronger than us, and they’re not supposed to have Phantasms and Clones (I’M LOOKING AT YOU ALPHARD AND THAT OTHER MESMER FROM THE PERSONAL STORYLINE).

And why? Why are all these NPC’s stronger than players?

Is there a need? Does it directly affect the story? Why make it so that they have skills that are as good as, if not better than ours with no drawbacks and many, many benefits (ground targeted feedbacks that block all projectiles, 20s cd TW, spawn 10 Phants instantly — CAN RETARGET, can have Clones past clone distance. Clone has no target).

Make them reasonable. I play an Asura Mesmer and every mission in the LS makes me feel like I’m bad, stupid, and worthless. Taimi is a Progeny and she’s already done more Asuran-related conquests than I have. Heck, I have my own Krewe and she’s still done more than me. Not to mention she treats me like I’m a bookah.

I feel like the story of GW2 was made for Human… non-Mesmers… I want to say a specific profession, but that’s not ENTIRELY true. Also, everything I said in this thread can be converted to Guardian and Necromancer appropriately (Braham and others having Shield of Absorption-like skills that last longer, block all projectiles and even environmental effects. Marjory and others having Minions that have special, concentrated effects).

Esplen.3940:

The only debuff on transforms is for the Watchwork one which was released after the main server optimizations came through. Additionally, with the Embers and Ogre Whistles, I believe that was being abused in WvW to obtain disgusting amounts of numbers in a zerg. With the Ogre Whistles, specifically, they had no duration so you could theoretically have an army of pets following you laying siege to the land.

That’s why it was “unoptimized”.

No, you’ve been locked out of using those sort of summons in WvW for a very long time though. The quote was in reference to open world bosses such as the triple wurm and tequatl. The dev said that the massive numbers of continual pets that everyone was using was putting a massive load on the server.

And again, quote?

Esplen.3940:

And again, quote?

I don’t really feel like hunting it down now. Perhaps someone else will find it for you.

Esplen.3940:

And why? Why are all these NPC’s stronger than players?

Yeah, I’ve always been agitated. My mesmer is my least favorite profession to play – how the hell am I supposed to be immersed in the idea that I’m “The Boss” of this group that all have better skills than myself?

hannah mee.7925:

Esplen.3940:

And why? Why are all these NPC’s stronger than players?

Yeah, I’ve always been agitated. My mesmer is my least favorite profession to play – how the hell am I supposed to be immersed in the idea that I’m “The Boss” of this group that all have better skills than myself?

I have also wondered about that too, Why is it that NPC are way better than us, not the elites, but the even the low class ones?

From what they game is saying, we are like some super freaky Mez that has not finished their school, but super strong enough to go out there and fight against dragons.

Let just say we did finish Mez school and learnt all the skills, will that make us A god like?
:)

Clearly, we were too busy saving the world to learn how to use our skills properly. Just look at Aqualad and Garth. Garth decided to stay and study his magic. Aqualad decided to be a hero. Guess who became stronger?

Yeah it’s annoying to see NPC Mesmers do insane stuff.

I had a friend ask me to put down a portal like Kasmeer does. He was shocked when I told him portal doesn’t work like that.

Edit: What I mean is, he thought I was able to put portal wherever I wanted, not where I was standing.

At least people know to press F next to a portal, although sometimes they think it will wait there for them forever…

Remember when people would run onto the portal and not press F then wonder where everyone went?

I’ve just come back to my mesmer after extended stints on my guard and warrior. My mesmer build is zerk sw/sw + sw/foc phantasm. I run zerk on the guard and warrior as well. I only pve.

I have also noticed the severe deficiency of phantasm survival versus some of these living story bosses.

I am extremely reluctant to change traits/gear to overcome this as I chose this build for my enjoyment…and that is pretty much the point of playing…to enjoy. I would understand If the difficulty was damage being too low to clear content, or just an impractical build for the game mode, but illusions are a core functionality of the class…and I built around them!!! I keep signet of illusions slotted and the persisting images trait. With that much invested, they should not die this easily.

I don’t think the solution is all that complicated…have signet of illusions also give protection to illusions. Currently, the only thing they really have for survival is padded health…we all know how much damage is being output in these one shot attacks by pve mobs/bosses now…hp alone isn’t going to get the job done. Illusions aren’t smart enough to dodge…so give them protection in addition to the health from the signet in pve only.

Oh yeah, I feel obliged to also yell and scream about the lack of swiftness/passive run speed outside of equipping a focus and the fact that we still do not have main hand pistol.

Kirito.9207:

Yeah it’s annoying to see NPC Mesmers do insane stuff.

I had a friend ask me to put down a portal like Kasmeer does. He was shocked when I told him portal doesn’t work like that.

Edit: What I mean is, he thought I was able to put portal wherever I wanted, not where I was standing.

That hurts so bad :’(

You know, the person that programmed the AI on the clones, likely programmed the AI on the Henchmen and Heroes in Guild Wars. It explains why it’s so terrible at times. On another note, I had no issue what so ever with completing any of the LW updates so far on Mesmer. Phantasms were purely there for me to spike something down. Yes, they got destroyed in AoE afterwards, but at least they were able to perform an attack first, which did the job. Only way I’d see them not being able to do something is if I would be stupid enough to just spam skills willy-nilly, not paying attention to rotations from my foes attacks and spiking between them. In that last fight, you can avoid almost every attack by the boss without any effort, such as dodging. I hardly see how it was a problem.

I also saw someone comment on Kasmeer putting a Portal where she wanted it as I skimmed down the topic, maybe you didn’t pay attention to the story, but it was touched upon that she is a part of the Mesmer Collective, which has been explained further both inside and outside the game. They could perhaps have put more information about it within the game however.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer_Collective

Certain extremely powerful mesmer spells are known only to the most elder members of the mesmer community, and are kept a secret from outsiders.

Is it unreasonable to think that a more powerful version of the Portal spell is practiced in this collective? Not really. Is it a bit annoying that we can’t reveal towers and place portals wherever we want? I guess. But I’m alright with not being almighty and the center of the universe. Queen Jennah is a wastly more powerful Mesmer than we are, same with Countess Anise. I also want Anise’s armor.. make it happen, ArenaNet. At least after we kill her upon discovering she was Scarlet Briar all along, deal?

ODB.6891:

I am extremely reluctant to change traits/gear to overcome this as I chose this build for my enjoyment…and that is pretty much the point of playing…to enjoy. I would understand If the difficulty was damage being too low to clear content, or just an impractical build for the game mode, but illusions are a core functionality of the class…and I built around them!!! I keep signet of illusions slotted and the persisting images trait. With that much invested, they should not die this easily.

This just shows the failure of Anet to handle this class properly; remember all that “play how you want” and everyone can do everything? Well how the kitten does this square with that? Their lack of direction and attention to this class is kittening pathetic.

Edit: He’s not saying he’s dying he’s saying he plays phantasm. Ok yes you could say “Why should a phantasm build be allowed to just sit there with their phantasms out and kill stuff?” Because it’s living story, basically solo player content, and the whole point is to build how you want, and I think the point of his post isn’t to whine about how hard the content is, but to complain (legitimately imo) about how hard the aoe counters our core class mechanic in ways that only Rangers probably understand. It’s totally kittenin stupid.

So I wasn’t the only one who felt a bit weird when my phantasms tried to kill those bugs in dry top, yet they dealt 0 dmg? :S

The new mobs are great, yet phantasms seem too weak against them. I’d suggest to reduce their summon time and grant us a trait wich gives phants distortion until their first salve. (PvE balance)

Xyonon.3987:

So I wasn’t the only one who felt a bit weird when my phantasms tried to kill those bugs in dry top, yet they dealt 0 dmg? :S

The new mobs are great, yet phantasms seem too weak against them. I’d suggest to reduce their summon time and grant us a trait wich gives phants distortion until their first salve. (PvE balance)

For PVE I really think this is something that should be done. Distortion until the first attack is finished. Just don’t put it in PVP.

Kirito.9207:

Xyonon.3987:

So I wasn’t the only one who felt a bit weird when my phantasms tried to kill those bugs in dry top, yet they dealt 0 dmg? :S

The new mobs are great, yet phantasms seem too weak against them. I’d suggest to reduce their summon time and grant us a trait wich gives phants distortion until their first salve. (PvE balance)

For PVE I really think this is something that should be done. Distortion until the first attack is finished. Just don’t put it in PVP.

You’re right. Full Invuln in PvP, and make sure the retal still procs.

Hopefully we see some adjustments with the balance post that due to go up tomorrow.

One thing you might consider trying is using Signet of Ether as your healing skill, it lets you replace phantasms more quickly. It took some getting used to for me, but it can really help sometimes when you need to create more burst damage

I think we should have partially linked health, this also further confuses enemies:
Our clones would show with whatever health percentage we have (they also display our debuffs and buffs, and hence ticking damage – all health is shown as the same anyhow).

If a clone gets hit, this does in turn affect us but only by ~10% of the health the clone lost. In other words if a clone (with our full HP/Toughness!) gets killed from 100%, we lost 10% health.

This would also be how enemies can find the real Mesmer in my utopian version where clones behave very player-like: One target takes more damage.

Carighan.6758:

I think we should have partially linked health, this also further confuses enemies:
Our clones would show with whatever health percentage we have (they also display our debuffs and buffs, and hence ticking damage – all health is shown as the same anyhow).

If a clone gets hit, this does in turn affect us but only by ~10% of the health the clone lost. In other words if a clone (with our full HP/Toughness!) gets killed from 100%, we lost 10% health.

This would also be how enemies can find the real Mesmer in my utopian version where clones behave very player-like: One target takes more damage.

While interesting, this would absolutely ruin mesmers in zergs even more than I imagined possible.

Carighan.6758:

I think we should have partially linked health, this also further confuses enemies:
Our clones would show with whatever health percentage we have (they also display our debuffs and buffs, and hence ticking damage – all health is shown as the same anyhow).

If a clone gets hit, this does in turn affect us but only by ~10% of the health the clone lost. In other words if a clone (with our full HP/Toughness!) gets killed from 100%, we lost 10% health.

This would also be how enemies can find the real Mesmer in my utopian version where clones behave very player-like: One target takes more damage.

No pls not! If you suggest that I loose 10% of my life everytime a clone dies:

1. I’d die very fast in bossfights with aoe (lupicus, mai trin, many others)
2. I wouldn’t been able to play clonedeath builds!
3. Scepter would become the suicid weapon of the mesmer.
4. DE would cause us to get 10% dmg when we try to dodge any hard attack.
5. I’d stop generating clones in every matter.

Xyonon.3987:

So I wasn’t the only one who felt a bit weird when my phantasms tried to kill those bugs in dry top, yet they dealt 0 dmg? :S

The new mobs are great, yet phantasms seem too weak against them. I’d suggest to reduce their summon time and grant us a trait wich gives phants distortion until their first salve. (PvE balance)

Our puppets, (that is what am calling clones, Phantasms and illusions) can do no harm to those bug. Why, you can only attack them from the front or when they are upside down. Our puppets do not understand this concept, Attack from the front.

Once again a failed mechanics with our puppets.

So now we have bugged AI, stupid AI, environment handicapped (AOE and fast death) to the class and it puppets. So you see, it more a bumpy road ahead unless the fix and improve on the class.

Well, you can always spawn a Duelist and not be in melee range while spawning it. At least, until the bug decides to rotate because that one guy wanted to be cool and flank.