Guild Wars 2

TLDR:
iMage breathes in a cone instead. More hits, better aoe, noticeable.
————-

I love the torch, the graphics, the idea. But I feel it could use improvement. Let’s see. (I play rabid condition spec, which shows.)

Not many classes have access to the torch, but generally it is a closer range AOE weapon, burning enemies. For the mesmer, it has defensive utility and offers some conditions. In utility, the weapon is different to the rest and quite equal in power.
Right now the weapon seems to be a bit more of a condition weapon, rather than direct damage, but offers only a small burn through The Prestige. The skill is a very good defensive ability and a blast finisher, and is not much to whine about. BUT.

Everything seems to be wrong with the phantasm. Almost everything. First of all, the phantasm doesn’t feel very powerful, as its damage is lowish and its main function seems to be applying confusion and retaliation. This doesn’t prevent it from having an unusually high phantasm cooldown. The condition it applies is confusion, which for PVE purposes does not feel very powerful, and for PVP the confusion is quite small.
The phantasm has high range, which does not fit into the idea of closer-range torch skills, and it does one hit per enemy, firing a… bouncing ball, instead of something more torchy. Almost all the other phantasms do multiple hits, which goes well with traits such as illusions bleeding on crits, which is something you might want to have in a condition build. Perhaps that is how the torch is supposed to be balanced, but iMage really feels bad, and not even fun to use.

Here is my suggestion, which I don’t think is overkill:

The Mage uses a torch, to breathe flames front of it, say ~400 range cone. It could hit maybe 3 times, and the flames confuse or burn enemies, & applies retaliation to allies. (or something else)

The result is that the attack becomes more noticeable and a bit more powerful, but easier to avoid in PVP. Dodgeable is good. For PVE and in general, the torch would be better for AOE, which is what the torch is supposed to be. The multiple hits could apply bleed from the trait if needed, making it a better choice for condi.
I don’t think it would be overpowered at all right now, and the cone range would make it more than OK.

I want casting the Mage with a 30 sec CD to feel awesome, something like the feel of casting the duelist. I can wish! No longer a high range invisible ball of crap from a source I wish I had shattered ages ago. In my condi build, I literally am better off with staff clones.

I kinda like this idea. Makes sense and would probably be the necessary buff to the iMage without making it OP.

Plus, I would love to see a phantasm breathing blurple fire.

The one problem with this idea is more of a basic problem with animation locking melee attacks.

Think about the attack that drakes use (which is pretty much exactly what you’re thinking of here). You can avoid that attack by just walking away from it because the mob is animation locked into this short range conal aoe. The same issue would occur with the iMage. It would walk up to someone, use the attack, and by the time the attack actually hits them, they would have moved or killed it.

A good thought, I just don’t think it’s the proper choice.

Perhaps then the breath could be a very fast one? I think that is more of a technical problem, as I don’t think it would be less balanced to have it be fast. It’s fast now for sure.

I also approve of this idea. AoE confusion or burning would be perfect for the iMage and would fit with the theme of the torch. Also, since your suggestion would make the iMage into a close-range phantasm, it would likely die rather quickly. I think that it could function as the bit of burst damage that condition mesmers currently lack.

I love The Prestige and can’t see myself using anything other than torch, but the fact that I literally use iMage as a condition cleanse (Cleansing Conflagration) is just sad.

I read the title and happen to love torch as is, so was planning on posting about how good it is currently, but those ideas would make it so much more fun to use. Great ideas.

Why not a small firestorm, reminiscent of that used by Ascalonian Mages? Except Smexxy Mesmer Purple™.

Great ideas. I support this 100%.+1

I like the firestorm idea. Adds AOE confuse to enemies and retal to allies in the area. More mage-like, too. DnD style fireball would rock, too.

Conal fire-breathing attack is a great idea, but what few condition builds there are can’t afford to lose the confusion that the iMage provides. If the attack is changed it absolutely has to stack confusion.

Conncept.7638:

Conal fire-breathing attack is a great idea, but what few condition builds there are can’t afford to lose the confusion that the iMage provides. If the attack is changed it absolutely has to stack confusion.

I disagree, i have VERY little in my build that uses Confusion, to me its Meh, i use it not because its amazing or anything but because its decent and even that is rare.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conncept.7638:

Conal fire-breathing attack is a great idea, but what few condition builds there are can’t afford to lose the confusion that the iMage provides. If the attack is changed it absolutely has to stack confusion.

I disagree, i have VERY little in my build that uses Confusion, to me its Meh, i use it not because its amazing or anything but because its decent and even that is rare.

No that’s not what I meant, sorry that was unclear.

Mesmers basically have two types of condition builds. You like the builds that do not rely on confusion so much, I like the builds that rely almost completely on confusion. You would be destroying a build I (and others) enjoy in favor of one you enjoy by taking away the iMage’s confusion.

My favorite condition build and many other confusion-reliant builds just flat out wouldn’t work were the iMage to lose it’s confusion.

Conncept.7638:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conncept.7638:

Conal fire-breathing attack is a great idea, but what few condition builds there are can’t afford to lose the confusion that the iMage provides. If the attack is changed it absolutely has to stack confusion.

I disagree, i have VERY little in my build that uses Confusion, to me its Meh, i use it not because its amazing or anything but because its decent and even that is rare.

No that’s not what I meant, sorry that was unclear. Mesmers have quite a few condition builds. You like the builds that do not rely on confusion so much, I like the builds that rely almost completely on confusion. You would be destroying a build I (and others) enjoy in favor of one you enjoy by taking away the iMage’s confusion.

The iMage is THE worst Phantasm we have. Buff it up and then Maybe, just maybe people will use it more, the ONLY reason i used it was for the Stealth, iMage is VERY weak.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conncept.7638:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conncept.7638:

Conal fire-breathing attack is a great idea, but what few condition builds there are can’t afford to lose the confusion that the iMage provides. If the attack is changed it absolutely has to stack confusion.

I disagree, i have VERY little in my build that uses Confusion, to me its Meh, i use it not because its amazing or anything but because its decent and even that is rare.

No that’s not what I meant, sorry that was unclear. Mesmers have quite a few condition builds. You like the builds that do not rely on confusion so much, I like the builds that rely almost completely on confusion. You would be destroying a build I (and others) enjoy in favor of one you enjoy by taking away the iMage’s confusion.

The iMage is THE worst Phantasm we have. Buff it up and then Maybe, just maybe people will use it more, the ONLY reason i used it was for the Stealth, iMage is VERY weak.

With a condi-duration build it easily applies three to four stacks of confusion at all times, and has a projectile indistinguishable from those of the scepter and scepter clones. That’s consistent condi-damage from a virtually unnoticeable source.

I agree it could use a buff along with many other confusion abilities, but it’s far from useless and it’s removal would exacerbate our build problems much more than fix them.

Conncept.7638:

With a condi-duration build it easily applies three to four stacks of confusion at all times, and has a projectile indistinguishable from those of the scepter and scepter clones. That’s a consistent condi-damage from a virtually unnoticeable source.

I agree it could use a buff along with many other confusion abilities, but it’s far from useless and it’s removal would exacerbate our build problems much more than fix them.

Shame it doesnt do that much damage, i would take Pistol and the confusions from a Ether field on a longer cooldown and have the iDualist getting 5+ stacks of confusion + the damage it already does over the iMage

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Conncept.7638:

With a condi-duration build it easily applies three to four stacks of confusion at all times, and has a projectile indistinguishable from those of the scepter and scepter clones. That’s a consistent condi-damage from a virtually unnoticeable source.

I agree it could use a buff along with many other confusion abilities, but it’s far from useless and it’s removal would exacerbate our build problems much more than fix them.

Shame it doesnt do that much damage, i would take Pistol and the confusions from a Ether field on a longer cooldown and have the iDualist getting 5+ stacks of confusion + the damage it already does over the iMage

True enough. But the iMage and the iDuelist are basically the crux of my confusion build, I rely on both and with both I can keep about 5-8 stacks of confusion on at all times, then spike up to 21 when I go for the kill. But if I lose the duelist or the mage my attrition damage drops by half, and all I have left is the burst :-/

That’s pretty much the problem with the torch. It’s only fully useful in a very strict, niche build (a melee confusion/stealth build), and only semi-useful in confusion or stealth builds. I get good mileage out of it in my stealth build, but due to the crappy phant, I have to work extra hard to maximize the Prestige and my other weapons to make the weapon worth it at all. Builds like yours have to work extra hard to make the phant’s confusion worth it as well.

That is not good design for weapons in a game like GW2. Weapons should offer you general build options (and most others do); not be limited by them. Filling in options to to make niche builds work or optimize builds is the job of traits, and in some cases utility skills. The torch needs to be useful for more than 2 types of niche builds to be a complete GW2 weapon. Right now it’s a locked set of 2 utility skills, especially with 2 long CD skills on it.

Dropping the CD on one or both these skills would go a long way to making it useful, and the phantasm seriously needs a buff to both confusion and retaliation application. That’s why I like the field idea above. It would expand the application of the phantasm skill without making it OP, though the confusion itself could use a small duration or stack buff as well.

It’s clear the devs are scared of the phantasm’s potential, but they need to find a common ground. Either that or they have no idea how the hell to change it without an overhaul.