Affordable mesmer WvW roamer.
Questions i’m sure will be asked and to clear them up quickly
-Why Rabid
I do not feel it needs the health pool of Vit
-Why not better runes
Cost efficiency for entry level low gold players to try something different.
-What skill cap does this require
Moderate mesmer mechanics
-Can it clear camps solo?
Yes with full hp no using heal needed.
-Why two sigils of energy,For that matter why are only 2 sigils in the build
I leave the other two sigils up to your own imagenation because your flavor
and prefference is needed for those,I like poison,And many other options but the energy is nice,Concidering i have calculated it down to my rotation,I am utilizing both energy sigils every 12 seconds (sigil of energy being a cd of 9 seconds)
-How fast does it kill enemys
depending on the class obviously but i make short work of most enemys in under 30 seconds
-On average how many people can YOU personally take on at a time with this build
In t1 i have no problem taking on 2-3 people at a time,The pressure i can keep applied on downed victims while i am killing the others is immense with the high ammount of confusion and uptime of clones with my sigils.
-15k hp a bit low for a roaming mesmer that isnt zerk?
While toughness is a highly argued stat on both sides from experience i find that 2800 softcap to be very effective when i’m getting a surprise invisible gank via another mes or thief.
-What is the main staple of this build
Well i rely kitten well executed illusionary counters (sceptor #2),It is extremely hard to miss this skill (currently ticking at 12,202 torment damage while moving)
,Aswell as the mobility this build provides via illusionists celerity ,improving the cooldown of staff #2 and many others in tangent with blink and decoy
Also the shatter damage with every shatter skill infictling confusion is pretty gross.
-How do you utilize this build to it’s full extent
Well that can be summed up pretty simply. Utilizing sceptor 2’s correctly,Constantly burning forms of invisibility and staff #2 to keep boons up,Keep distance and constantly keep your skills recharging so you arent letting them sit there staticly,Which is a mistake i see alot of mesmers make saving skills untill it is too late,This build focuses around teaching you to be a master of distraction, Almost like a thief.
-Isn’t this build like some previous Condi roamer builds?
Yes and no.,Like i said this is affordable,Therefor easy to access,Provides a challenge for certain fights which makes taking those people down much more rewarding feeling.Also my variation on a condi roamer is slightly different and concidered not “meta”,The meta is there for a reason for the most part,But the well roundedness of this build & damage is astounding if you can be slippery.
Also i see alot of condi roamers using Veil which lowers your condi damage you could have from signet of domination aswell as making you lose the stun this signet provides.
Also the main gripe i get when i offer friends this build is why the hell would you go down the illusions tree instead of domination for crippling dissipation(clones cripple foes when they are killed) Well that answer is simple. (all shatters inflict confusion,Confusion lasts 33% longer, 150 extra condi damage,15 % recharge on shatter & 20% reduced recharge on illusion summong skills) Whilst i realise domination 4 points which is what most condi roamers go gives 20% condi duration and the cripple effect,For my playstyle concidering i don’t get caught much i don’t see it as a decent tradeoff,There are plenty of times people clear my condis and within the next 5 seconds they have another 7 stacks of torment 14,000+ ticking dmg + any bleeds burns and confusions i allready placed back on with shatters.
So while i do appreciate condition duration and i do have it with my food i don’t feel the extra need for another 20% to lose what’s core in my build.
Final Notes
Yes my grammar/spelling is bad and i apologize,Yes this is my main mesmer roaming build but i do have ascended acessories/amulets/rings etc no ascended other gear for this character,Most of my ascended gear is all PVE as this is not a PVE build,I also have a couple (non meta builds for thief that are very rewarding you can ask me about aswell) Daeson.5273 ingame ID
I am an experienced T1 mesmer roamer Formerly from SOR/BG and now Jade Quarry.
Any other questions i am more than happy to answer feel free to add me in game any time or post here sorry for the wall of text but just trying to do my due diligence.
Feel free to pick the build apart and call it kitten all criticism is welcome
(edited by Daeson.5273)
Well my only question is with no condition clears and low health seems you would melt from conditions. Avoiding is great but the claim to fighting 3 people conditiomns had to come. Being so slow trying to disengage while those conditions tick is another issue.
Well my only question is with no condition clears and low health seems you would melt from conditions. Avoiding is great but the claim to fighting 3 people conditiomns had to come. Being so slow trying to disengage while those conditions tick is another issue.
Absoloutly an issue i agree with Which is why most condi roamers go with torch clear 4 points in domination. I don’t encounter Condi builds much in T1 anymore roaming it seems to have fallen out of favor so it is not an issue i deal with very often. So there are exceptions to every rule i am not making a claim there isn’t so in that regard you are absoloutely correct. My only opinion on the fact is the low ammount of condi clear i receive with the 4 points in domination is very low and sometimes unnoticable as i have extensively tested in duels. It might not work for some people,The condi classes i do come across mostly blow their condi’s on my clones because of my placement but again exceptions to the rule i have been rolled by a few condi necros. So your arguement is very valid not going to deny it. Still remaining i find the build (fun) and very versatile without the condi clear aspect. It does get stifled abit by consta invis,regen and placement i constantly use to prevent further condi.
So it’s PU with illusions CD’s instead of torch (which also covers condi clear) and you have zero condi clear in your build with only a 1500k hp pool.
Stealth and positioning take you so far, but you’re so low on mobility to boot that you’re either lying about your ability with this build or have failed to meet competent t1 roamers with their own condition focus.
So it’s PU with illusions CD’s instead of torch (which also covers condi clear) and you have zero condi clear in your build with only a 1500k hp pool.
Stealth and positioning take you so far, but you’re so low on mobility to boot that you’re either lying about your ability with this build or have failed to meet competent t1 roamers with their own condition focus.
As i said only from personal experience,I have nothing to gain by lieing as i am not seeking notariety it is simply a build to toy around with for a very small cost that is efficient.
Nor am i boasting my skill as a roamer ,With that said i don’t find most t1 roamers to be competent i find most of the competent roamers to be on T2-3 servers because of the larger ammount of roam (practice makes perfect) Exceptions are there aswell however. Yishis is a good example of a t1 roamer,Mechanics i could never fathom or be close to. So this build and my past fights are only based on my experience in T1 roam over the last year and a half
But the issue of low mobility i don’t see to be there,#2 staff is up so often that is a nice distance maker,aswell as all invisibilities grant boons swiftness being one of the most common to happen by my experience by the time i have exhausted my invisibilities ,blocks with torch #2,staff #2’s my blink is back up again to start it all over again if i had used it to prevent a burst
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I was SoR on release and did the flip to kitten when the servers changed places.
Whenever I read comments about T2 etc having better roamers than T1 I have to roll my eyes. It’s a joke. The same variety of roamers exist across servers generally speaking relative to the populations present.
As for experience, mine contradicts yours in various ways. Condi builds exist in both roamers and small man, who’re both experienced and deadly.
You can’t even break an immob with this build. Long duration cripple? Good luck kiting. A single condi warrior with LB could dump a heavy stack of bleeds on you and just run around jumping till you go down. He doesn’t even need to be good. It’s just silly.
I was SoR on release and did the flip to kitten when the servers changed places.
Whenever I read comments about T2 etc having better roamers than T1 I have to roll my eyes. It’s a joke. The same variety of roamers exist across servers generally speaking relative to the populations present.
As for experience, mine contradicts yours in various ways. Condi builds exist in both roamers and small man, who’re both experienced and deadly.
You can’t even break an immob with this build. Long duration cripple? Good luck kiting. A single condi warrior with LB could dump a heavy stack of bleeds on you and just run around jumping till you go down. He doesn’t even need to be good. It’s just silly.
Appreciate your comments more than i do praising feedback ty for your comments and concerns about the build i much more respect critical feedback as a good example of what others might have problems with on the build,like i said i don’t encounter those problems often, blind luck? i dono but there are definitly certain things i run from lol :P
but on a side note on my other account in FA,i find so many good roamers that make t1 pale in comparrison,could it be the hours i’m on? possible could it be my map rotation also possible,It’s not that t1 roamers arent “good” although mostly incompetant,The most i come across pale in comparison to players on t2-t3 that being said i still get my kitten kicked by some roamers in t1 =)
but also ways i combat that is blink to break stun if there is a stun,staff #2 can push me back even if immobilized ,and for the most part when i combine that with a invisibility or a sceptor #2 i either lose them invisible in a different position or punish them for re engaging with sceptor #2
(edited by Daeson.5273)
All the comments regarding the inability of this build to even remotely handle condition pressure are valid, but I have a different one.
What exactly makes this build stand out as cheap? I see nothing in this build that makes it cheap other than undead runes instead of say traveler or perpelexity, but that’s hardly a significant change.
All the comments regarding the inability of this build to even remotely handle condition pressure are valid, but I have a different one.
What exactly makes this build stand out as cheap? I see nothing in this build that makes it cheap other than undead runes instead of say traveler or perpelexity, but that’s hardly a significant change.
Those runes you added are a serious gold difference You are looking at upwards of 55+ gold for those whereas undead cost copper,Also most of the mobility runes have the same gold difference,Also rabid gear should you buy it via gold is much cheaper in most cases than the most common zerk,celestial,pvt build i see most wvw roaming mesmers running, also in my opinion time is money,now with the new lvl 80’s having to unlock Every single trait, “Most” of the traits in my build are easily achieved i say “Most” because there are only two in particular that take a bit to attain compared to other builds.
Do you really need Confusing Combatants? It seems like putting that point in Illusions and taking Illusionary Elasticity would be more worthwhile.
Do you really need Confusing Combatants? It seems like putting that point in Illusions and taking Illusionary Elasticity would be more worthwhile.
Actually a good question i’ve been playing around with that lately with the staff,i’m having trouble telling the math difference tbh,Could use help with that because the bounces seem buggy at times or there is something about the bounce mechanic i am not too understanding of
Those runes you added are a serious gold difference You are looking at upwards of 55+ gold for those whereas undead cost copper,Also most of the mobility runes have the same gold difference,
As I said, other than the runes. The thing is that you can easily swap out perplex/traveler runes for rabid in any condie build and have minimal changes in how that build actually plays, you don’t need some crazy new trait distribution to accomplish that.
Also rabid gear should you buy it via gold is much cheaper in most cases than the most common zerk,celestial,pvt build i see most wvw roaming mesmers running,
Rabid gear is used in the majority of mesmer WvW roaming builds, since the majority of mesmer WvW roaming builds are condie based. Zerk is used certainly, and that is a bit more expensive for sure. Nobody uses celestial, and PVT is actually fairly cheap…and only is used in some really specific zerging builds.
also in my opinion time is money,now with the new lvl 80’s having to unlock Every single trait, “Most” of the traits in my build are easily achieved i say “Most” because there are only two in particular that take a bit to attain compared to other builds.
This is not a valid argument. If literally the only thing they want to do on mesmer is run 1 particular build with absolutely zero possible variation then….sure. There’s pretty much nobody that actually does that though, so this is a meaningless point.
Basically, this build is no cheaper than any of the other condie roamer builds that you could easily find around on these forums…but is far less effective due to various things that you lack. No cripple, no condie clear, an odd combination of wanting to use clone deaths and shatters at the same time (this doesn’t work). It’s cut-price in every sense of that phrase other than the actual cost.
Those runes you added are a serious gold difference You are looking at upwards of 55+ gold for those whereas undead cost copper,Also most of the mobility runes have the same gold difference,
As I said, other than the runes. The thing is that you can easily swap out perplex/traveler runes for rabid in any condie build and have minimal changes in how that build actually plays, you don’t need some crazy new trait distribution to accomplish that.
Also rabid gear should you buy it via gold is much cheaper in most cases than the most common zerk,celestial,pvt build i see most wvw roaming mesmers running,
Rabid gear is used in the majority of mesmer WvW roaming builds, since the majority of mesmer WvW roaming builds are condie based. Zerk is used certainly, and that is a bit more expensive for sure. Nobody uses celestial, and PVT is actually fairly cheap…and only is used in some really specific zerging builds.
also in my opinion time is money,now with the new lvl 80’s having to unlock Every single trait, “Most” of the traits in my build are easily achieved i say “Most” because there are only two in particular that take a bit to attain compared to other builds.
This is not a valid argument. If literally the only thing they want to do on mesmer is run 1 particular build with absolutely zero possible variation then….sure. There’s pretty much nobody that actually does that though, so this is a meaningless point.
Basically, this build is no cheaper than any of the other condie roamer builds that you could easily find around on these forums…but is far less effective due to various things that you lack. No cripple, no condie clear, an odd combination of wanting to use clone deaths and shatters at the same time (this doesn’t work). It’s cut-price in every sense of that phrase other than the actual cost.
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,But defining it as right or wrong is detrimental to an arguement to provide healthy feedback. the more important thing i want to comment on is the trend of which people are constantly copying famous youtube/twitch builds, taptdouts warrior builds/yishis and other riot guilds twitch builds etcetera that all offer mostly Power builds that most are copying for roam i think has lead to the decline of condi roamers which i honestly do not see much of.I do not see where everyone is seeing all of these condi roamers in t1
(edited by Daeson.5273)
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,But defining it as right or wrong is detrimental to an arguement to provide healthy feedback.
This is a commonly misunderstood point of logic, allow me to clear it up for you. You are entitled to have whatever opinion that you want. For example, you could be of the opinion that the Holocaust never happened and that’s your business.
Now, while you’re entitled to whatever opinion that you want, that has absolutely zero bearing on the correctness of your opinion. In the aforementioned example, the Holocaust obviously happened, and having the opinion that it didn’t is very much wrong. In our example, your build is obviously not less expensive in any meaningful way than the other many condie roaming builds out there, and so the opinion you’ve expressed stating that it is, is very wrong.
Do you really need Confusing Combatants? It seems like putting that point in Illusions and taking Illusionary Elasticity would be more worthwhile.
Actually a good question i’ve been playing around with that lately with the staff,i’m having trouble telling the math difference tbh,Could use help with that because the bounces seem buggy at times or there is something about the bounce mechanic i am not too understanding of
The bounce mechanic seems to work fine for me. It might seem broken if you’re only fighting at max range though. Anyways, the potential for extra bleed stacks and burn duration from staff clones should be a lot more useful than a few short stacks of confusion that appear randomly.
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,But defining it as right or wrong is detrimental to an arguement to provide healthy feedback.
This is a commonly misunderstood point of logic, allow me to clear it up for you. You are entitled to have whatever opinion that you want. For example, you could be of the opinion that the Holocaust never happened and that’s your business.
Now, while you’re entitled to whatever opinion that you want, that has absolutely zero bearing on the correctness of your opinion. In the aforementioned example, the Holocaust obviously happened, and having the opinion that it didn’t is very much wrong. In our example, your build is obviously not less expensive in any meaningful way than the other many condie roaming builds out there, and so the opinion you’ve expressed stating that it is, is very wrong.
As i stated before there is no right or wrong when expressing an opinion
But i did find your holocaust analogy interesting lol i would appreciate however we dont use sensative topics like that in the thread again however i dont want this to turn into a troll thread,you know how trolls react,see a sensative topic and jump on it to fuel a jet fuel fire lol but i do understand your analogy.
(edited by Daeson.5273)
Do you really need Confusing Combatants? It seems like putting that point in Illusions and taking Illusionary Elasticity would be more worthwhile.
Actually a good question i’ve been playing around with that lately with the staff,i’m having trouble telling the math difference tbh,Could use help with that because the bounces seem buggy at times or there is something about the bounce mechanic i am not too understanding of
The bounce mechanic seems to work fine for me. It might seem broken if you’re only fighting at max range though. Anyways, the potential for extra bleed stacks and burn duration from staff clones should be a lot more useful than a few short stacks of confusion that appear randomly.
I will do some further practice on it ty for the suggestion,And yeah i am usually near max range most of the time in staff could be my issue
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,But defining it as right or wrong is detrimental to an arguement to provide healthy feedback.
This is a commonly misunderstood point of logic, allow me to clear it up for you. You are entitled to have whatever opinion that you want. For example, you could be of the opinion that the Holocaust never happened and that’s your business.
Now, while you’re entitled to whatever opinion that you want, that has absolutely zero bearing on the correctness of your opinion. In the aforementioned example, the Holocaust obviously happened, and having the opinion that it didn’t is very much wrong. In our example, your build is obviously not less expensive in any meaningful way than the other many condie roaming builds out there, and so the opinion you’ve expressed stating that it is, is very wrong.
As i stated before there is no right or wrong when expressing an opinion
I take it you ignored my Holocaust example then. Usually the example where you literally say ‘If you say this, you’re saying that Hitler was right’ gets people to see the logic.
Again, there’s nothing wrong with having an opinion. This doesn’t make the opinion right. You can have the opinion that this build is cheaper and more effective, you’re just wrong.
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,But defining it as right or wrong is detrimental to an arguement to provide healthy feedback.
This is a commonly misunderstood point of logic, allow me to clear it up for you. You are entitled to have whatever opinion that you want. For example, you could be of the opinion that the Holocaust never happened and that’s your business.
Now, while you’re entitled to whatever opinion that you want, that has absolutely zero bearing on the correctness of your opinion. In the aforementioned example, the Holocaust obviously happened, and having the opinion that it didn’t is very much wrong. In our example, your build is obviously not less expensive in any meaningful way than the other many condie roaming builds out there, and so the opinion you’ve expressed stating that it is, is very wrong.
As i stated before there is no right or wrong when expressing an opinion
I take it you ignored my Holocaust example then. Usually the example where you literally say ‘If you say this, you’re saying that Hitler was right’ gets people to see the logic.
Again, there’s nothing wrong with having an opinion. This doesn’t make the opinion right. You can have the opinion that this build is cheaper and more effective, you’re just wrong.
Let’s put it this way,You voiced your Opinion and concerns,I then answered those concerns and opinions. Your opinion was stated mine was. Does the dead horse need to be kicked any longer? This isnt how an arguement remains productive.
My answers arent going to change we are just responding with the same things over and over again just in different words.
Like i said i never said i was “yishis” one of the most famous t1 roamers,I also never claimed to be very good.
I have opinions. I have a build i think is Fun and enjoyable.
I am open to criticism and ideas. i also answer questions. I also answer concerns and opinions to try to clear up concerns. If you cannot take my answers at face value that is not my issue. I took yours at face value but you continue to keep saying the same thing which hipacritically of myself so am i. I didn’t post this build here for “all the best players to play” It is a build i have acquired a taste for that i enjoy and maybe someone else will. It is just there out in the ether, Is my build right or wrong? neither an opinion and idea are neither right or wrong unless you take it to an extreme of morality. That is a different subject. Play the build or don’t. Commentwith new ideas,concerns or kick a dead horse which gets both of us no where. is the point i am trying to make.
Comparing the opinion of morality with an opinion on a video game are two very different things. Nor do i want to converge them. I wish to keep the post respectful and civilized as i am a humble person and don’t enjoy hurting others feelings/being disrespectful or questioning morale opinion.
I am open to criticism and ideas. i also answer questions. I also answer concerns and opinions to try to clear up concerns. If you cannot take my answers at face value that is not my issue. I took yours at face value but you continue to keep saying the same thing
Ah, here’s the little bit of dispute. I gave you criticism, points, and ideas. I pointed out specific examples showing why what you’ve said was incorrect or misinformed. Your response to this was, and I quote:
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,
That’s all. Your response was literally ’you’re not allowed to call my opinion wrong’. I gave you facts and logic, and you responded with ‘all of these facts and logic don’t apply because I say so’.
I’m more than happy to hear actual counter-points and arguments to the things that I addressed, you just have failed to provide any.
I am open to criticism and ideas. i also answer questions. I also answer concerns and opinions to try to clear up concerns. If you cannot take my answers at face value that is not my issue. I took yours at face value but you continue to keep saying the same thing
Ah, here’s the little bit of dispute. I gave you criticism, points, and ideas. I pointed out specific examples showing why what you’ve said was incorrect or misinformed. Your response to this was, and I quote:
As i keep saying “my opinion” i’m entitled to mine as you are to yours saying my arguement is invalid implies there is a right and wrong but that definition is not set in the terms we are speaking of i respect your opinion and mine differs that is perfectly fine,
That’s all. Your response was literally ’you’re not allowed to call my opinion wrong’. I gave you facts and logic, and you responded with ‘all of these facts and logic don’t apply because I say so’.
I’m more than happy to hear actual counter-points and arguments to the things that I addressed, you just have failed to provide any.
i actually answered all of the concerns/questions about the build,weither to you or a previous poster if you would read,so i am assuming that you have read it to make your next post. so Yes i did answer all of the concerns of the build. Also you are taking what i said out of context you are also argueing opinion with a logic system raised by what is fairly known to people to be widely used by politicians taking a ordinary normal thing in a hobby or whatnot and trying to force less objectivity on it by giving it an morale extreme. It doesn’t work for politicians or logic,You seem intelligent which is why i expected you to drop that and move on. Still agreeing with my first opinion of you being intelligent i suspect that is no longer necessary.
so for sake of maybe you reading a new post instead of not reading the old ones.
I answered with my honest opinion on runes.
i answered with my honest opinion on traits (which some take a VERY long time to unlock because of event timers) that is time i could be spending collecting bags off of roam or farming matts (time is money)
i addressed the mobility. weither you find my opinion wrong or not neither of us are wrong.
i addressed the reason i didnt choose 4 points in domination
regardless of all of the questions i have answered neither of us are wrong is the point.
opinions are never right or wrong unless you hold it to a morale standpoint this isnt church its guildwars 2. i am not starting a holy war. i am playing a game.
so ill put it in bold neither of us are right or wrong i never claimed to be right i simply gave an opinion on how i counter this or that or what my opinion is on what is and isnt.*
(edited by Daeson.5273)
to be widely used by politicians taking a ordinary normal thing in a hobby or whatnot and trying to force less objectivity on it by giving it an morale extreme. It doesn’t work for politicians or logic,You seem intelligent which is why i expected you to drop that and move on. Still agreeing with my first opinion of you being intelligent i suspect that is no longer necessary.
Using the Holocaust was not an attempt to force a moral extreme, it was using the example of an something that definitely happened. Since it definitely happened, having the opinion that it didn’t is factually wrong.
Price
You have up to this point still failed to address my question of what exactly is cheaper about the build. Any condie roamer build can swap runes, so that’s not cheaper. All condie roamers use rabid, so that’s not cheaper. Obtaining traits is only cheaper if you assume the person using this build will literally do nothing else ever, and that’s not an assumption you can make.
Condition Clear
Your response to the lack of condition clear was ‘most people I find blow their conditions on my clones so I don’t need any’. This is literally saying ‘everyone that I’ve fought is awful’. Fighting anyone competent will result in conditions on you, there is no way to avoid this. Therefor, all builds either need to have a way of dealing with the conditions, or be capable of bursting so hard that no defense is necessary. Standard shatter builds take the latter approach but your build can’t do that, so it needs the former.
You’ve asked for feedback and you’ve received it. This build is not an effective way to roam in WvW if you’re fighting anyone remotely competent that can apply conditions, and it’s also not cheaper in any meaningful way than other condition roamer builds.
to be widely used by politicians taking a ordinary normal thing in a hobby or whatnot and trying to force less objectivity on it by giving it an morale extreme. It doesn’t work for politicians or logic,You seem intelligent which is why i expected you to drop that and move on. Still agreeing with my first opinion of you being intelligent i suspect that is no longer necessary.
Using the Holocaust was not an attempt to force a moral extreme, it was using the example of an something that definitely happened. Since it definitely happened, having the opinion that it didn’t is factually wrong.
Price
You have up to this point still failed to address my question of what exactly is cheaper about the build. Any condie roamer build can swap runes, so that’s not cheaper. All condie roamers use rabid, so that’s not cheaper. Obtaining traits is only cheaper if you assume the person using this build will literally do nothing else ever, and that’s not an assumption you can make.Condition Clear
Your response to the lack of condition clear was ‘most people I find blow their conditions on my clones so I don’t need any’. This is literally saying ‘everyone that I’ve fought is awful’. Fighting anyone competent will result in conditions on you, there is no way to avoid this. Therefor, all builds either need to have a way of dealing with the conditions, or be capable of bursting so hard that no defense is necessary. Standard shatter builds take the latter approach but your build can’t do that, so it needs the former.You’ve asked for feedback and you’ve received it. This build is not an effective way to roam in WvW if you’re fighting anyone remotely competent that can apply conditions, and it’s also not cheaper in any meaningful way than other condition roamer builds.
And i am fine with you having that opinion the point is saying it over and over again doesn’t accomplish anything. Also i said my positioning,distracting with clones,invisibilities are what keeps me safe of condi stripping down things i say to less than half of what i say to fit your arguement doesn’t solve anything on your side either.
also i have addressed what is cheaper. i am not going to retype it when it is on the page allready and i am tired of reposting the same thing over and over again.
i offered solutions weither you agree with them or not is fine that is the whole point of critical thinking. but i am not going to call what you do right or wrong. and the fact that you keep implying a right or wrong in my build or opinions really does not prove anything. Here is how i expect a logical arguement to go.
Hey you have no condi clear ,that sucks fix it.
well mostly what i do to avoid condi is use positioning,distracting with clones,invisibility,distance so for the way i play i dont have much trouble with it
Try it with condi cleanse you will probobly do alot better just my opinion.
also you find your build cheaper i really dont.
thanks i will try it,Well many players may not have as much time as me,some of hte traits take time to unlock,ORR events for instance,so for some they might not be unlocking all their skills anytime soon because they wont be playing 12 hours a day like me that is why i came to that conclusion. I was thinking of a thoughtful thing for new level 80’s
or maybe fay you just arent getting half of what i say because of my quick edits after post when i go awe kitten i forgot something and quickly edit it and then you didnt see it .Maybe we are both lost in translation lol
(edited by Daeson.5273)
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
No, it’s just a fact. Some opinions are factually right and some are factually wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2 = 5, you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re also wrong.
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
Please stop asserting your opinion that opinions are equal, it’s disrespectful toward me and sounds like fascism.
See what you/I did there?
And yeah, I got a pretty clear picture of your views now. Allow me to give you something to help straighten it out.
Humans share a type of equal value in spite of whatever opinions they might tout, and are thus worthy of respect and dignity. Opinions or ideas do not necessarily hold equal value. An example might be an ideal of some moral value, or a matter of truth where an opposing view is untrue by necessity. Contradictory, competing truth claims cannot both be true at the same time in the same way.
You actualy believe this in spite what you’re saying. You can’t escape it in fact because it is how reality is. Just look at your statement again. You assert opinions are equal, yet in the same sentence you call out “fascism” as a bad thing (which it has been shown to be). Fascism is itself an opinion or idea. So ask yourself, which is it, an equally respectable thing to hold or something to be touted as a weapon to level against someone who says opinions arent equal. Your thinking is confused on this :p
“http://tinyurl.com/zerkerberserker”
“http://tinyurl.com/Chronomistrust”
“http://tinyurl.com/flamewarrior”
“http://tinyurl.com/Chronomistrust”
“http://tinyurl.com/flamewarrior”
(edited by Ross Biddle.2367)
kitten nn thread got derailed…. Lol.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
kitten nn thread got derailed…. Lol.
Lo -_-u
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
No, it’s just a fact. Some opinions are factually right and some are factually wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2 = 5, you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re also wrong.
Holy crap get over yourself…
Here’s my opinion, you should go clean those cheetoh caked slabs of bruised meat you call hands and take your troll train elsewhere as your typing is getting away with itself.
Is it really so hard to show a little appreciation for the Authors efforts in the mindless babble you call a reply?
If you’re looking for a cheap-to-make condi build? The pinned OsiCat build thread is quite dated now, but the PU condition build is basically this build with good burning output and MASSIVE condition removal. The Balthazar runes you need to run it never go above 3s at the auction house.
Take a look.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
(edited by ASP.8093)
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
No, it’s just a fact. Some opinions are factually right and some are factually wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2 = 5, you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re also wrong.
Holy crap get over yourself…
Here’s my opinion, you should go clean those cheetoh caked slabs of bruised meat you call hands and take your troll train elsewhere as your typing is getting away with itself.
Is it really so hard to show a little appreciation for the Authors efforts in the mindless babble you call a reply?
Sorry I offended you with proper application of logic and facts, feel free to play inefficient an ineffective builds as much as you want, nobody is going to stop you. I don’t show appreciation or disdain for effort, I simply evaluate the effectiveness and overall value of said efforts.
If you’re looking for a cheap-to-make condi build? The pinned OsiCat build thread is quite dated now, but the PU condition build is basically this build with good burning output and MASSIVE condition removal. The Balthazar runes you need to run it never go above 3s at the auction house.
Take a look.
This is a pretty reasonable option for sure. I feel like they nerfed balthazar runes at some point between now and when that build was made, but I could be wrong. I just recall engineers being really crazy with them, and then that died out at some point.
(edited by Fay.2357)
What is this build?
This build is a cost effective & small investment whilst still being effective wvw roaming build.
Nice setup Daeson. In This game there is no wrong or right build. Contrary to what the pompous p kept saying you play what works for you. I find I respect the players who AREN’T playing the “META” build because they are less predictable and as long as the build works for their play style then its a good build. Props to ya.
You can also save a ton of money by using sub-80 food and oils (well, crystals, in your case).
Basically 1/20th of the cost for 90% of the effect.
One caveat here: for condition builds, there are duration breakpoints so sometimes losing a little bit of condition duration means you lose a whole “tick” of condition damage. It’s not that hard to figure it out if you play around with your gear in gw2skills, though.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
(edited by ASP.8093)
Feel free to pick the build apart and call it kitten all criticism is welcome
^
Best serious thread of the year so far; reread it about 3x and still laughing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-cele-short-for-celery/first#post4830394 for something a bit lighter.
And yes roam with whatever you like, condition clear will be essential unless you want to die from immobilize, cripple, or chill incredibly often.
Not going to dive fully into the opinion topic, but Ross is correct :P.
Ida
Asserting that all opinions are equal is obviously false. Ok, we live in a post modern world and this sort of bad thinking has taken hold in the minds of people for various reasons. I’m not sure what yours are, Daeson, but you’re wrong to dismiss the counter claims or “opinions” that’ve been leveled against you in the way you have. You can disagree with me but I’m afraid you’d only be affirming my point :p
Anyway, Fay isnt really wrong. In terms of this build somehow being some sort of “cheap” alternative, it’s not. This is a pretty run of the mill condi setup people have been running for a long time.
Asserting that opinions arent equal is disrespect to the person you are argueing with that just sounds like fascism. again. Just my opinion.
No, it’s just a fact. Some opinions are factually right and some are factually wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2 = 5, you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re also wrong.
Holy crap get over yourself…
Here’s my opinion, you should go clean those cheetoh caked slabs of bruised meat you call hands and take your troll train elsewhere as your typing is getting away with itself.
Is it really so hard to show a little appreciation for the Authors efforts in the mindless babble you call a reply?
Sorry I offended you with proper application of logic and facts, feel free to play inefficient an ineffective builds as much as you want, nobody is going to stop you. I don’t show appreciation or disdain for effort, I simply evaluate the effectiveness and overall value of said efforts.
If you’re looking for a cheap-to-make condi build? The pinned OsiCat build thread is quite dated now, but the PU condition build is basically this build with good burning output and MASSIVE condition removal. The Balthazar runes you need to run it never go above 3s at the auction house.
Take a look.
This is a pretty reasonable option for sure. I feel like they nerfed balthazar runes at some point between now and when that build was made, but I could be wrong. I just recall engineers being really crazy with them, and then that died out at some point.
Balthazar runes now don’t ignore blind, evade, and block. Not sure if they changed anything else.
Ida
Balthazar runes now don’t ignore blind, evade, and block. Not sure if they changed anything else.
Did they always have an ICD?
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
Balthazar runes now don’t ignore blind, evade, and block. Not sure if they changed anything else.
Did they always have an ICD?
All on-heal runes require cooldowns. The reason is engineer healkit.