Guild Wars 2

PREFACE
I am not claiming to be pro nor be the best. Simply stating what happened and how I came to what I think.

Finally tried out the Mesmer profession in sPvP. I am fairly adept with all classes having played all of them at least to level 50; I currently have most at level 80. I only played Warrior in sPvP because I liked the challenge. I finally decided to toss in my hat because it is obvious that Warriors will be broken for still quite some time, so I decided to give the profession I thought would be the most OP a whirl.

I understand most people think D/D Elementalist is OP, but that is only true when in a organized group of 3 or more. It is the combined healing/condition clearing that makes them a problem. I could kill unskilled/low skilled Eles on my Warrior as well as many other classes up to skilled level, but I decided to give up the struggle with trying to best someone that is really skilled and go on to something I thought would be easier.

….And boy… did I ever choose right. How over powered can a class be? How has no one noticed how disgusting this is? After 50 games and only leveling to 80 I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease. I left the fight with 80% health. Granted I had no cool downs left, but I won. I stomped both of them. To add to the shame, I am full berserker and have at least ten times the ability to survive than my Warrior.

Now, I will say they were not the best out of the bunch I have ever played, but they were not the worst either. The Warrior profession has trouble enough with one person. Dear Balthazar, throw in another you are practically dead on the spot. I easily 1v1 and 1v2 now. I have only died so far to mob balls in hot join. After playing the Warrior for so long switching to Mesmer makes me feel like a Giant walking among flees.

It is just outrageous that a professions can be so good while other suffer horribly. I will most likely not stick with Mesmer as there is no challenge what so ever in killing anyone.

So, congratulations I guess on picking the clearly OP class in this game. You can try to defend it but there is a clear gap in professions and Mesmer is sitting very high.

Vanthian.9267:

You can call me a lair if you want

Your eh lair Vantheen.

Anyways, please, QQ more. Not once in your entire post did you describe an actual reason/justification for why mes is OP. It was just “oh apparently I killed two people lol”, and I’m honestly not sure that you have any credibility here given your blatantly obvious bias.

0/10 for this troll, sir.

Not a lair nor do I intend to hurt. I am merely posting the truth of what the Mesmer class is and can do. It is truly a different world when playing a Mesmer than a Warrior. The amount of ease is staggering. I would suggest playing another class like Warrior as it would help you see how hard other professions have to try.

Vanthian.9267:

Not a lair nor do I intend to hurt. I am merely posting the truth of what the Mesmer class. It is truly a different world when playing a Mesmer than a Warrior. The amount of ease is staggering. I would suggest playing another class like Warrior as it would help you see how hard other professions have to try.

It’s liar. Just sayin’.

So, tell me then- what makes mes so much easier, apart from your claims that mes just “is” easier? And please, I’ve played every profession. Thief is my main, with mes as my secondary. I’ve played S/D eles a ton before. I played heavy regeneration rangers before they were cool. I’ve looked at the nooby bread-and-butter mechanics that the heavy armored professions have. They’re easy to learn, relative to other professions. I’ve tried a necro before, dabbing my toe in all sorts of different builds in that world. And I’ve definitely tried engi before… Eh. Kinda dull.

Other professions are actually easier than mes, in my experience.

Arganthium.5638:

Anyways, please, QQ more..

I am not QQ merely stating a fact, nor did I come here with the intentions to show the people who should know best that the class is OP. If you want though I will start with a very easy example.

The fact Mesmers can be invulnerable every 8 seconds is ridiculous. Immune to all attacks and skill for 2 seconds every 8 seconds? How is that not OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy

This is such a well rounded skill that no other class has access too. It can be used defensively and offensively.

I ask you, how is this not OP?

I will tell you why you think it is not, because it only deals mediocre damage.

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

Anyways, please, QQ more..

I am not QQ merely stating a fact, nor did I come here with the intentions to show the people who should know best that the class is OP. If you want though I will start with a very easy example.

The fact Mesmers can be invulnerable every 8 seconds is ridiculous. Immune to all attacks and skill for 2 seconds every 8 seconds? How is that not OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy

This is such a well rounded skill that no other class has access too. It can be used defensively and offensively.

I ask you, how is this not OP?

I will tell you why you think it is not, because it only deals mediocre damage.

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

Arganthium.5638:

So, tell me then- what makes mes so much easier, apart from your claims that mes just “is” easier? .

The fact that most damage is ranged and you have AI dealing your damage for you while you have invulnerable states, stealth, and clones to hide behind.

Arganthium.5638:

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

The definition is in the word… over powered. As in, greatly more powerful than other things available to others. A skill/ability that is truly above and beyond that of which most other professions have access too. No other profession can come close to blurred frenzy in terms of defense and offense.

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

So, tell me then- what makes mes so much easier, apart from your claims that mes just “is” easier? .

The fact that most damage is ranged and you have AI dealing your damage for you while you have invulnerable states, stealth, and clones to hide behind.

OK.

1. So what? As a thief, I just take out my melee set and lay waste to enemies who can’t run away fast enough. Which tends to be most enemies. So they have to end up fighting in melee instead.

2. Regular illusions are pathetic with their damage; the only thing they’re good for is stacking bleeds, which last for a relatively short period of time and are easily cleansed anyways. Also, illusions are easy to identify and destroy. Phantasms are more difficult to deal with, but they’re much less easily generated and are still relatively weak when you consider DPS vs health. Just use AoE is my suggestion. Outside of that, most mesmers are easily identified, so it’s not so much a matter of avoiding illusions as it is a matter of killing the mes before they kill you. It’s a very cutthroat profession in that way.

3. The invul states are evades, and are only granted by Distortion and BF. Distortion has a long cooldown and maxes only 4 seconds of evades, and requires you to sacrifice all of your illusions. BF is an attack that requires sword, and is easily evadable. Also, you can’t move while using BF. It’s like the warrior’s 100b; they don’t get evade, but they do get tons and tons of damage. And yet, I don’t see anybody crying for a 100b nerf. You know why? Because 100b is easily avoidable. Same goes for mesmer; just avoid BF and by the time you’re reoriented the attack will likely be over anyways.

4. Stealth? You’re kidding, right?

5. If you haven’t learned how to identify illusions versus mesmers yet, then I don’t know that anything you’re writing is even slightly credible.

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

The definition is in the word… over powered. As in, greatly more powerful than other things available to others. A skill/ability that is truly above and beyond that of which most other professions have access too. No other profession can come close to blurred frenzy in terms of defense and offense.

“Overpowered” is a relative term. Overpowered relative to what?

Van the problem with mesmers is this once somebody finds the real you and knows how to find the real you everytime your done for. Why? because you dont do as much damage as most classes when you really think about it the only reliable condition with have is bleed and we dont have tht without illusions. Yes sword have invul every 8 traited 10sec if not traited but why do we have it? Because the sword requires us to be in close quarters which we dont have the armor to survive and blurred is our only high damage reliable move our auto attack we dont use to often because we r getting blasted by aoes and everything to stay in melee range for that long. Yes blurred is strong but there is a trade off to using it. Dont look at pros look at the con’s also.

Arganthium.5638:

.

You seem to off write phantasms and clones way to easily. They are very easily reproduced and quite fast. I hardly ever run into a situation where I have less than 2 in any fight.

Yes, you do have access to stealth and 8 seconds of stealth is quite a bit if you know how to use it properly and use it well. It can save you and destroy the opposition.

Thief might have a lot of stealth but never does that make him completely invulnerable to attacks. Thiefs are easily dealt with as you know where they are going. To your back the majority of the time. Also, most Thievies have to be close to deal damage, so just count the stealth out and then block/dodge. This is not how you deal with Mesmer stealth. Mesmers don’t’ have to go behind you, nor do they have to come close to deal damage. Also, shatters don’t have nearly as long as cool down as you think. Mind Wrack/Cry/Diversion/Distortion with full cool down reduction is like 10.5/21/31.5/42 seconds.

Eclispo.2703:

Van the problem with mesmers is this once somebody finds the real you and knows how to find the real you everytime your done for. Why? because you dont do as much damage as most classes when you really think about it the only reliable condition with have is bleed and we dont have tht without illusions. Yes sword have invul every 8 traited 10sec if not traited but why do we have it? Because the sword requires us to be in close quarters which we dont have the armor to survive and blurred is our only high damage reliable move our auto attack we dont use to often because we r getting blasted by aoes and everything to stay in melee range for that long. Yes blurred is strong but there is a trade off to using it. Dont look at pros look at the con’s also.

It is not just blurred frenzy, you also have access to permanent vigor. It is quite wop sided when compared to a Warrior and what his defenses are.

You don’t have to be in melee just because you carry the sword. In fact, 90% of the time I am ranged in most fights. The only reason I carry the sword is for “Blurred Frenzy” and “Illusory Leap”. I would go with specter but it is just not as good at defense. I can’t give up the 2 seconds of invulnerably.

shimmerless.4560:

The thing that bugged me on the War was that it felt very rock-paper-scissors-y, and that even when slotting heavy condi removal you’d constantly be chilled and crippled. I also don’t like that the GS feels mandatory and that 100b only ever seems usable with Frenzy (which I hate as a skill).

It is rock/paper/scissors in respect to skill level honestly. The Warrior profession is great at running over people who don’t know how to dodge or use their class, but come across someone who knows what they are doing… and it is not even a fight. Warriors have decent mobility, if they are running away. Rush is buggy at best when using it to actually close a gap. All you have to do is move left to right a couple of times and it will bug out and miss. 100 blades is very useless unless heavily set up, which is what makes the Mesmer so much easier in my opinion. It is not hard at all to create 3 clones/phantasmas then use mind wrack for basically the same damage as 100 blades plus confusion.

shimmerless.4560:

The difference isn’t as wide as you’d think, Scepter has a good block on #2 which doesn’t provide invuln but has the advantage of not being a root/channel. It does fairly high damage, especially on a Power build.

The “permanent Vigor” is only the case if you’re specced heavily into crit. It also doesn’t proc on phantasms, limiting the choices available with which to get it.

I have tried about 4 or 5 builds now and I run full berserker because it is the easiest to use and sadly most effective, but even then on at least 3 of the other builds I still have permanent vigor. As low as 25-33% chance to critically hit is enough to keep vigor up most of the time.

Most Mesmers go at least 20 into dueling for clone on dodge which is roughly 10% critical chance. ( I believe it is 21 precision per 1% critical chance).

I just find that specter block is no where near as powerful as the intangible state. That is what makes it so ridiculous. I don’t think something like that should be on such a short cool down. I mean, it recharges before the other person can burst again.

Arganthium.5638:

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

The definition is in the word… over powered. As in, greatly more powerful than other things available to others. A skill/ability that is truly above and beyond that of which most other professions have access too. No other profession can come close to blurred frenzy in terms of defense and offense.

“Overpowered” is a relative term. Overpowered relative to what?

There are 2 other melee, rooted channels ingame:

• Hundred Baldes
• Pistol Whip

Pistol Whip comes closer to Blurred Frenzy, but even that one can be interrupted, as it has almost 1s of casttime before you start to channel and get the evade.

What does blurred frenzy have over both them?
For no apparent reason it autoturns towards the target while channeling. Running to the side/back of a thief or warrior, means that you don’t have any damage.
Blurred Frenzy will turn with your target.

Want another example of lol-balancing?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Bullet vs. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker

Mesmer is full of stuff like this.
Mesmer was my first class, and is still my most played class, followed by Ele.
Yet I will admit, that mesmer is overpowered. Not a bit, but really overpowered. Ele is overpowered aswell, but because of other reasons.

Varonth.5830:

Arganthium.5638:

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

The definition is in the word… over powered. As in, greatly more powerful than other things available to others. A skill/ability that is truly above and beyond that of which most other professions have access too. No other profession can come close to blurred frenzy in terms of defense and offense.

“Overpowered” is a relative term. Overpowered relative to what?

There are 2 other melee, rooted channels ingame:

• Hundred Baldes
• Pistol Whip

Pistol Whip comes closer to Blurred Frenzy, but even that one can be interrupted, as it has almost 1s of casttime before you start to channel and get the evade.

What does blurred frenzy have over both them?
For no apparent reason it autoturns towards the target while channeling. Running to the side/back of a thief or warrior, means that you don’t have any damage.
Blurred Frenzy will turn with your target.

Want another example of lol-balancing?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Bullet vs. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker

Mesmer is full of stuff like this.
Mesmer was my first class, and is still my most played class, followed by Ele.
Yet I will admit, that mesmer is overpowered. Not a bit, but really overpowered. Ele is overpowered aswell, but because of other reasons.

Sadly your still not getting it. We have blurred frenzy correct blurred gives invul correct but the fact that our only main damage is our illusions is as weakness. You talked about thieves right well the reason why thieves dont get invul on pistol whip is because one they can stay stealth pretty much the whole time they are kicking your butt *well maybe the whole time is pushing it, but im sure you get what I mean. 2 thieves dont have cooldowns so give a thief a pistol whip with invul and what do you have? a thief pretty much having perma invul. The reason why blurred has such a short cd is because once our phantasm is gone what are we suppose to do? Run in their with our sword and get smacked to crap? switch weapons? o wait my weapon swap is on a 7 sec cd while mister warrior weapon swap can be brought down to 3 or 4 sec easy. and as for warriors hundred blades you can def use it because I made a warrior just to have some fun sword/axe used flurry switched mid flurry HB if I saw they got out of flurry I use ww threw boa then used hundred blades. So many ways to get hb off. Now the con of the warrior is this your a warrior you are the most active and the most hard hitting class so people are going to watch out for you and watch out for high damaging moves thats why you distract them away from those moves but still warrior is a hard class to use. Mesmer illusions dying or Being found out=Death period. You keep saying only the pros of the class again start looking at the con right now your being pretty biased I keep saying look at the cons too but you only go for the pro’s.

Vanthian.9267:

I am not QQ merely stating a fact, nor did I come here with the intentions to show the people who should know best that the class is OP. If you want though I will start with a very easy example.

The “facts” you’re “merely stating”, are in fact your own subjective opinions based on your subjective experiences. As interesting as those might be, there’s a difference between objective reality and where you’re at. So that’s a good starting point to realize for us all. Especially you.

Vanthian.9267:

The fact Mesmers can be invulnerable every 8 seconds is ridiculous. Immune to all attacks and skill for 2 seconds every 8 seconds? How is that not OP.

You seem to not understand that the person making the claim has to provide the evidence. “How is that not OP” is not an argument. It’s you, begging the question. You’ve not really done anything in this thread except state that you think blurred frenzy (and mesmers as a class) is OP, then link a mesmer skill as if this somehow makes the point. So, frankly, we’re still waiting for some justification for your claim.

Rummaging through what else you have to offer in your OP, you claim that you’re a pre-release veteran of the game, and that using mesmer you 2v1’d two players in spvp who were good but “not the best”. Somehow defeating inferior opponents using mesmer, a duelist class, is OP? I don’t think you realize you’ve undermined your own argument here.

In conclusion, I don’t think it’s the mesmer class that’s OP. I think it’s you who are OP. Your superior skill and tenacity in any fight/argument demonstrates you’re impervious to defeat. You just won’t lay down and die.

To OP
you are concerned about balance?

You should then open a thread about the most severe balance issue of the game…

WARRIORS in PvE.
PvE is the most played game mode….so its more crucial…onc ethey fixed it we can talk about PvP.

You’re coming from a warrior. You could play as one of those terrible tree form npcs in caledon forest and feel op.

I used to play a warrior, it was my favorite class for many months. Eventually I saw how bad anets balancing was and how slowly it happened.

My advice to you is to jump on the op classes as soon as you can without fear of nerfs, cause it takes them a very long time to realise there is a problem.

Yet another one of these threads… When will it end?

I’d bet $100 that both the guardian and the necro had no idea how to fight you.

It’s a learn to play issue on their part. Mesmers are far from overpowered, but they are one of the ultimate noob stompers who allow very little room for mistakes on the opponent’s part.

Almost any class coming from warrior will feel OP. Trust me — I used to main warrior before I rolled a mesmer.

Can we see this “OP” build?
Or maybe a long stream in WvW/PvP?

Oh the horror, Mesmer has vigor on crit?!?! NEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

Wait, Engineer has it too? NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

The Warrior has two times the duration AoE vigor and AoE weakness at the same time with a couple of seconds downtime??!!! BUUUUUUUUFFFFFFF!!!

Claiming a class is op from a few experiences in hotjoin pvp (mostly full of guildies dueling or testing builds) is proof of how good mesmer is?……….he…mu….muhahahahahahmumumuhahahaha. Gufaw Gufaw Gufaw

Thank you for that laugh, I feel better now after a long day.

Well, there is something here that bug me off a bit. Can’t put my finger upon what exactly… like something is out of place…
Oh, wait :

I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease.

A mesmer winning with ease against a (supported) condi necro? I think we need to call the MIB, Mulder & Scully and professor Layton, something is definitely wrong here!

I don’t have time to read this whole tread but if I get the jest of it, Vanthian is claiming Blurred Frenzy is over-powered. I would counter that claim by saying Vengeance is overpowered. I can’t think of any other downed skill that would allow a player to get back on their feet and theoretically use ALL of their profession’s skills as well as food and environmental weapons. Plus it lasts a hell of a lot longer than 2 seconds. The only down side is death, if you can’t kill something else in that timeframe. Considering what everyone else gets while in the same situation, I’d say that’s far more than a slight advantage.

Now you won’t see me posting about this on the Warrior forums because I find that foolish. Instead I would point this out to the devs and say, “Why can’t more classes have downed skills this powerful or at least this opportunistic?!” That’s what you should be doing.

After playing a Warrior since head start you finally decided to play another class and are now a expert on what is balanced and overpowered. NO

My story is like your but kind of reverse my original class was mesmer. I was second on my server to have twilight loved mesmer remember the QQ back then about mesmers. I rolled thief in December. Rolled a Warrior about March.

My Favorite class is my warrior then my mesmer and then my thief. I even took my twilight and gave it to my Warrior.

The perspective is when I play my Warrior with the build I have now the only classes that give me trouble are a Mesmer with staff doesnt matter the build just staff. If they have a GS and whatever else I have no problem. Guardians.

So when I am on my Warrior 2 classes I dont like are Guardians and Staff Mesmers

When I am on my Thief 2 classes I don’t like are Bunker Guardians, Bunker eles (havent played it since S/D got a buff) bunker engi’s.

When I play Mesmers classes I don’t like are thieves, glass engi’s.

The classes I dont like are all the classes that can give me a hard time.

Morale is you should play more classes every class pretty much has 1 or 2 other classes that can give them trouble. I good well necro can do work on you since he can sit in his wells etc fear your clones and phantasm really lowering your dps while you eat conditions with condition removal on a long cd. There arent alot of those necros (or good ones) running around that I see so I don’t really say I don’t like necros.

if talking about wvw. mesmer can beat almost all prof/build 1 vs 1. its class for duels. if u have 5 warrior and 5 mesmers. i guess warriors win.
if talking about spvp. its just crap and dont see skill/op class here. all about “who knock first from point” and doesnt matter witch class u play.
in hotjoin its doublecrap,all about “who first zergling”
so my diagnosis: L2P

Vanthian.9267:

Not a lair nor do I intend to hurt. I am merely posting the truth of what the Mesmer class is and can do. It is truly a different world when playing a Mesmer than a Warrior. The amount of ease is staggering. I would suggest playing another class like Warrior as it would help you see how hard other professions have to try.

Bunker guards and a necro are both fairly easy opponents for say a shatter mesmer, though it depens on what build the necro is running. But good luck against a p/d thief or a decent sword thief in WvW. In fact, excellent d/d thieves will also destroy you.

sooo what do u want here? get mesmers even more nerfed? well to be quite honest, warriors are still very up in spvp. I play spvp with my guild a lot and guess what…engineer destroyed me over and over again! most of the engis where actually way stronger than we were
You have chosen a power build..well fine, but nerfing it with long cd’s would affect the other builds too!actually all the non power builds.

because of all QQ’ers like u they destroyed the glam mesmers build! Rabidgear and ascened gear all out of the window! What would u say if they would nerf your favorite class and build to the ground?what if they replaced warriors gs with a dagger and the hammer with a staff….you would be like : HEYYY I AM A WARRIOR and i need a hammer and GS, because i am a WARRIOR!

Well guess what and I AM A MESMERi have kitten CLONES and play MIND GAMES that CONFUSE the kitten out of enemies. I mean what do u expect from a mesmer? To deal no dmg because of clones?

Obviously you are fairly skilled if you were successful with the Warrior (considered, I believe) one of the worst classes for sPvP.

Have you tried other classes? You say that the D/D ele is only good in teams, my WvW experience suggests that this is not true.

My point is that if you are use to playing one of the bottom tier classes in sPvP, any top-tier class may feel OP.

I also think Mesmers have been over-nerfed recently. I don’t play sPvP but if they are good there, so what, there’s more to life and this game.

Vanthian.9267:

Rush is buggy at best when using it to actually close a gap. All you have to do is move left to right a couple of times and it will bug out and miss.

illusionary leap it’s as bad when the terrain is not perfectly plain.

From what we might know those 2 could be two backpeddlers-keyboard-turning-mouseclicking-vietnam-veteran-without-a-limb-kind-of-player.
A match that could be easily winnable “even” with your war.

The mesmer might or not be op, but one thing sure is this thread is quite stupid.

Dawdler.8521:

Oh the horror, Mesmer has vigor on crit?!?! NEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

It’s like almost every class have that trait btw lol

If he isn’t just completely trolling. Some people just suck at fighting against mesmers because they’re slow in the head literally poor reaction times. That does not make the class OP because it shreds bad players so easily. Shatter mesmers for example are very easily countered by people that know what to do. You see a lot in pug tournaments/hotjoins running shatter but the higher up in skill level you go you see less and less of them for a reason.

It is the best noob/idiot killer in the game no doubt though. “ kitten which one is real!” if anyone has trouble discerning which is one is the actual player they should delete the game and play hello kitty or fischer-price online er I mean that not so wow game.

I rolled a ranger 5 days ago and went straight into PvP after the starting quests. I have been destroying people, so I guess that class should be nerfed, too, right? You do realize most people in SPvP are not the greatest of players, yes? I roll through people on my mesmer because I have played the class for 7 months, and most people in SPvP can’t tell the mesmer from the clones. People panic and don’t know what to do, blow all their CD’s while I’m immune, and die. Then they QQ in map chat about how OP mesmers are. It’s quite funny.

OP?

May I ask you a few questions?

Did you have 1 condition removal utility?

Did you have either 1 clone and teleport or 2 clone utility?

or you are playing phastasm
If you say yes, then you are playing an unbalance spec that is superior in 1 vs 1 dueling and utter crap in team battles that requires player to run around the whole map capping points

More silliness. There’s probably dozens of threads similar to this one, and almost all of them are by people who supposedly just started playing a mesmer, or just started playing pvp, and right out of the gate they’re mowing people down with their uberness. There’s no reason a talented warrior, especially after the most recent buffs to the class – and the most recent nerf hammer to mesmers – couldn’t take you out. Go post another fluff topic somewhere else, please. Really, what do you expect by posting this here, that long-time Mesmers are gonna pop out of the wood work to tell you you’re so right on, we are soooo OP? Running around wvw, we’re lucky now if we even have a mesmer to portal us because so many people have quit the class.

“solo a bunker guardian and a necro” grats.

bunker guardians dont do anything but take up space. you can just ignore them all game and it wouldnt even matter. most likely the necro was a bunker also with staff.

for the most part necros blow cooldowns as they run away throwing staff traps behind them.

so yes i guess mesmers are op compared to people who dont do anything.
for the most part in spvp people put on the most bunker spec they can and hope someoen shows up to save them before they die.

Just to chime in…. my semi balanced with small burst capabilities thief
Running s/d and d/p can easily take out that combo… And had done so several times…. what’s your point? Steal boons from Guardian, stealth conditions away, beat up Necro whilst keeping blind up, stealth conditions and stomp, take boons from Guardian again, beat him with my sword…. Next argument please….

oh well obviously a troll that hopes that anet listenes to his whining in the forums and nerfs mesmers more,without even knowing ANYTHING about mesmers. uif 1 mesmer had access to all those skills at once our bar would have 3 stealth utilities 3 weaponswaps , arcane thievery, sigil of illsions and then a trait line 30/30/30/30/30.

it seems like he went online on wiki and checked out all the mesmer traits and thought wow OP. sry but it doesnt seem like u played it…. troll is troll and as a thief im sure he hates mesmers!LOL

LordByron.8369:

To OP
you are concerned about balance?

You should then open a thread about the most severe balance issue of the game…

WARRIORS in PvE.
PvE is the most played game mode….so its more crucial…onc ethey fixed it we can talk about PvP.

Except you will never (or almost never) get so much negative emotions in PvE as in PvP. The amount of rage that is produced by PvP is incomparable to PvE. I can play PvE for months and be a chilled out all the time. One day of PvP and I want to smash my monitor. IMO PvP balance is always more important than PvE balance. In any game where both of those modes coexist.

I never asked for a nerf, merely congratulating you on choosing the OP class in comparison to the rest.

I have played all class in WvW (which is PvE to me) and most to 80 in general PvE. I have a fairly adept understanding of all the classes and what they can do and what they can not. Mesmer is by far the worst or second worst culprit for having the most Defense for the least amount of investment.

Yes, other classes have permanent vigor through critical hits, but only Guardian and Elementalist outside of Mesmer. Guardian and Elementalist has other traits for dodges but I will not go into them. Engineers have it trough gaining swiftness. Thieves through using healing skills, but they also recoup some dodge on use. Rangers have vigor from: Being hit by critical strike for 5s every 15 seconds, also have a +50% increased regen rate as a passive, gain vigor on heal, and can have pets give aoe vigor for 5 seconds.

What does the Warrior have in comparison to all of this? Vigor on stances (which stances have 25/40/60/90 cool downs for 8 seconds of vigor, no one will ever use Berserkers Stance at 25 seconds cool down because it is a waste of a skill) and we can gain vigor when being hit for more than 10% of our health and get 10 seconds of vigor, this can only happen once every 30 seconds. Please also note that these traits are MASTER traits for Warrior where as most of the vigor traits for other classes are adept. Also, no one brings Warhorn into sPvP because it is a crappy offhand and is only good for keeping up swiftness for long intervals. Trying to argue against that is… not bright to say the least.

Most of you don’t’ seem to understand how powerful Blurred Frenzy is in comparison to anything else in this game. There is literally no other skill with such a short cool down that makes you completely invulnerable to attacks while still damaging a foe. The fact you have a SPAMABLE invulnerably is just stupid. No other class has this. This is not stealth, this is not blocking (which a lot of skills are unblock-able anyway), this is more like evading. Rangers have spam able evades if you want, but that is as close as you will get. Even then, the Rangers only have a short 0.5 second window of evade on their attacks, nothing that last 2 seconds. They can also be stunned/stopped before the evade take effect unlike the Mesmers. They are also locked in place before and after the evade happens, unlike the Mesmer who has free control until the invulnerable state kicks in and then free control after the 2 seconds (or before if they choose to end the state early). The Ranger is stuck in his attack until it is over, you can choose to end yours.

I have been thoughtful and considered all the classes and looked at all weapons for all classes. There is not another weapon skill in this game that is overly defense and offensive as Blurred Frenzy. Not just this one skill makes the class the best in the game. It is also, what most of you said, your “Faulty Clones that deal almost no damage” is also a huge problem with the class. They are ranged projectile blocks for no sacrifice that also deal decent damage, constantly, and until shattered or killed will stay on target. It is the fact that these phantasm can live forever unless they are: Shatter/killed or the target dies. Only one of those three things is negative and even then, they are easily replaced. As a dueling class this plus all the rest is over powered.

Like I said before, I am not yelling nor raging that this is in game. I understand that there will always be a class on top of the rest, there has to be. This game will never achieve perfect balance, but they can certainly do a lot better than what is in the game now.

As it stands, Mesmer is by far the most OP class for 1v1 in this game. Hands down. Now, for 1vX I might hand it to Guardian, but that is only because I think he would live a little bit longer than the Mesmer.

This thread was just made to highlight the ease of which it is for a Mesmer to kill people versus Warrior. There is a stark difference in attention required/skill needed in order to down and stomp someone. While playing Warrior I had to be on my feet at all times identifying what I thought the other players could through at me and dodge or block it ahead of time. With the Mesmer, I just offense until I see a number on me then use one of my five “oh crap” buttons then proceed to offense again. I don’t really need to pay attention nor try very hard to predict what they are going to do, because I have the resources to negate and deny the damage while it happens anyway.

Anyway, best of luck with drops and what not in the game. Enjoy it and best of luck in sPvP.

Vanthian.9267:

With the Mesmer, I just offense until I see a number on me then use one of my five “oh crap” buttons then proceed to offense again. I don’t really need to pay attention nor try very hard to predict what they are going to do, because I have the resources to negate and deny the damage while it happens anyway.

Awesome! Keep it like that and youll be food for everyone that knows how to fight a mesmer (wich is getting more common) and in some time youll come to QQ mesmers are UP

Dess.4391:

Awesome! Keep it like that and youll be food for everyone that knows how to fight a mesmer (wich is getting more common) and in some time youll come to QQ mesmers are UP

Highly doubtful. As long as you can spam a invulnerable state every 8 seconds there is really nothing to fear. This is not even taking into account the free “semi stun breaker” phase retreat that is also on a 8 second cool down. You can survive a long time just by circling through your defenses and leaving out phantasms to kill your opponent.

Just a small demo of what you could do (not saying this is the best): Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Decoy>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Blink>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat > Mirror Images>…… repeat chain

As long as you can do this chain you will be hard press to die in any situation (notice this is not even using distortion nor mass invisibility). The only other class that might come close to actual stun breakers/invulnerable states like this is the Ranger, but even they are hard press to chain so long and can’t do so as effectively.

Elidath.5679:

Vanthian.9267:

I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease.

A mesmer winning with ease against a (supported) condi necro? I think we need to call the MIB, Mulder & Scully and professor Layton, something is definitely wrong here!

Really nothing strange about it if you can time your abilities and invulnerable states right. He can’t put conditions on me if he can’t hit me/see me. Plus, Necromancers well bombs are laughably easy to dodge over and ruin their entire set up.

Vanthian.9267:

Dess.4391:

Awesome! Keep it like that and youll be food for everyone that knows how to fight a mesmer (wich is getting more common) and in some time youll come to QQ mesmers are UP

Highly doubtful. As long as you can spam a invulnerable state every 8 seconds there is really nothing to fear. This is not even taking into account the free “semi stun breaker” phase retreat that is also on a 8 second cool down. You can survive a long time just by circling through your defenses and leaving out phantasms to kill your opponent.

Just a small demo of what you could do (not saying this is the best): Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Decoy>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Blink>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat > Mirror Images>…… repeat chain

As long as you can do this chain you will be hard press to die in any situation (notice this is not even using distortion nor mass invisibility). The only other class that might come close to actual stun breakers/invulnerable states like this is the Ranger, but even they are hard press to chain so long and can’t do so as effectively.

Frankly i’m not gonna entertain you anymore. What I got from your all post is this your qqing because the Warrior is not the most op class in the game point blank and simple. Your made because warriors are not the warriors from wow were you can run in and kill everything in seconds and hardly take any damage. Well i’m sry get over it Mesmers have their own problems as do Warriors but you are just being so stupid that you refuse to look at the kitten con’s of the class and until you do I think you should shut your mouth because the only thing that is coming out of it is biased crap. Good bye. Then I guess you forgot all about the cd on our weapon swap well I guess you would forget since as a war your wep swap can be brought down to 3-4sec and as for phase retreat thats so easy to see through that its not funny you teleport back wards all people have to do is go for the one further back -_- its called watching position as for the blurred combo again wep swap and what are you going to do once you blow your cd on your utility and your stuck with sword? Prob die why because ur swap is on cd and if you want to do damage you gotta get close. Again anyway im done go back to wow if you want the super no damage taking high attack power warrior goodbye

Dawdler.8521:

Oh the horror, Mesmer has vigor on crit?!?! NEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

Wait, Engineer has it too? NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

The Warrior has two times the duration AoE vigor and AoE weakness at the same time with a couple of seconds downtime??!!! BUUUUUUUUFFFFFFF!!!

You are either not very bright or truly believe the Warrior has that much vigor…. Warhorn is useless in sPvP for Warrior. Even then, you can have at max, using just the Warhorn, vigor up to 50% of the time. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_to_Arms

But you would be giving up a stun and your only block for vigor for 10 seconds (which is only 2 dodges). The weakness will be wiped by most other classes anyway (Ranger/Guardian passively) and won’t really be effective anyway due to its 6 seconds duration.

The block for 3 seconds is of more help than vigor for 10. Mesmers can have permanent vigor at no cost, unlike the Warrior who would have to trait and give up his decent offhand for a crappy one. It is a non argument.

Also, Engineer does not have vigor on critical hit. They gain vigor upon buffing themselves with swiftness. Even then, it is only 5 seconds of vigor.

Varonth.5830:

Arganthium.5638:

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

First, define to me what “OP” is. Overpowered relative to what? How is your idea of OP better than anybody else’s idea of what is OP? Tell me that, and then perhaps we can talk.

The definition is in the word… over powered. As in, greatly more powerful than other things available to others. A skill/ability that is truly above and beyond that of which most other professions have access too. No other profession can come close to blurred frenzy in terms of defense and offense.

“Overpowered” is a relative term. Overpowered relative to what?

There are 2 other melee, rooted channels ingame:

• Hundred Baldes
• Pistol Whip

Pistol Whip comes closer to Blurred Frenzy, but even that one can be interrupted, as it has almost 1s of casttime before you start to channel and get the evade.

What does blurred frenzy have over both them?
For no apparent reason it autoturns towards the target while channeling. Running to the side/back of a thief or warrior, means that you don’t have any damage.
Blurred Frenzy will turn with your target.

Want another example of lol-balancing?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Bullet vs. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backbreaker

Mesmer is full of stuff like this.
Mesmer was my first class, and is still my most played class, followed by Ele.
Yet I will admit, that mesmer is overpowered. Not a bit, but really overpowered. Ele is overpowered aswell, but because of other reasons.

And yet you still have not mentioned a single measure of how something is “OP”. In other words, you don’t have one.

So, my question then would be this- what is “OP” about being invulnerable, in and of itself? What would change if BF didn’t have the evasion on it, and somebody tried to use it on top of you?

Eclispo.2703:

Frankly i’m not gonna entertain you anymore. What I got from your all post is this your qqing because the Warrior is not the most op class in the game point blank and simple. Your made because warriors are not the warriors from wow were you can run in and kill everything in seconds and hardly take any damage. Well i’m sry get over it Mesmers have their own problems as do Warriors but you are just being so stupid that you refuse to look at the kitten con’s of the class and until you do I think you should shut your mouth because the only thing that is coming out of it is biased crap. Good bye. Then I guess you forgot all about the cd on our weapon swap well I guess you would forget since as a war your wep swap can be brought down to 3-4sec and as for phase retreat thats so easy to see through that its not funny you teleport back wards all people have to do is go for the one further back -_- its called watching position as for the blurred combo again wep swap and what are you going to do once you blow your cd on your utility and your stuck with sword? Prob die why because ur swap is on cd and if you want to do damage you gotta get close. Again anyway im done go back to wow if you want the super no damage taking high attack power warrior goodbye

You never entertained me to being with.

First, I don’t’ play WoW actively and “hard core”. I found the game very boring and everything was the same rotation. I played for all of 1 month then quit because I did not enjoy the game. Instead, I played Guild Wars 1 from launch to until Guild Wars 2 launch.

I am not mad nor do I want Warrior to be the OP. It is foolish to ask for a class to OP. I am merely stating what is in this game. I would rather have classes that are balanced for a decent PvP experience. Guild Wars 1 was not balanced around duels because we had actual PvP in that game. True group organization and tactics to play with. This is a node capping game, which comes down to a mini series of 1v1, 2v1, and sometimes 3v3. The balance is better suited around 1v1 for such small fights. Where as in Guild Wars 1 we could balance for team play becuase no one character could heal/damage/control all by themselves. Guild Wars 2 is different because one character can do all of those things.

I am asking for better balance than what is currently given and currently Mesmers are the best dueling class.

You can mock and make fun all you want, but that won’t get rid of the issue at hand that most people can see.

There are few downsides to Mesmer. I have went full berserker as a Mesmer and I have, like I said before, at least 10 times the ability to survive. It is just innate class design.

Instead of making fun of the person maybe you could be of help and actually come up with a decent argument as to how they are not OP. I have given proof along with another poster as to how they have over powered skills in comparison to the rest of the classes. Please show me how you think they are not?

Edit: Secondly, I just noticed you mentioned our “Super high attack power”. You must PvE more than anything. This is in regards to PvP balance not PvE. Anything that is… umm… “paying attention” shall we say can easily coast through the PvE in this game.

Arganthium.5638:

And yet you still have not mentioned a single measure of how something is “OP”. In other words, you don’t have one.

So, my question then would be this- what is “OP” about being invulnerable, in and of itself? What would change if BF didn’t have the evasion on it, and somebody tried to use it on top of you?

Sigh, I have been ignoring you because it is not worth answering someone who wants to be… do not know how to put it a nice way… a “intelligent and philosophically minded individual”. It is not worth my time to actually present things to, even though someone already has including myself, and is already present in the definition in the word. Common sense can explain the meaning of term “over powered”. If you do not understand the phase/term, then please use the internet to look it up and then adjust the meaning of the word into a video game format. I have already explained it once and I will not repeat myself.

Vanthian.9267:

Dess.4391:

Awesome! Keep it like that and youll be food for everyone that knows how to fight a mesmer (wich is getting more common) and in some time youll come to QQ mesmers are UP

Highly doubtful. As long as you can spam a invulnerable state every 8 seconds there is really nothing to fear. This is not even taking into account the free “semi stun breaker” phase retreat that is also on a 8 second cool down. You can survive a long time just by circling through your defenses and leaving out phantasms to kill your opponent.

Just a small demo of what you could do (not saying this is the best): Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Decoy>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Blink>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat > Mirror Images>…… repeat chain

As long as you can do this chain you will be hard press to die in any situation (notice this is not even using distortion nor mass invisibility). The only other class that might come close to actual stun breakers/invulnerable states like this is the Ranger, but even they are hard press to chain so long and can’t do so as effectively.

I kidda agree that that combo have a ridiculous amount of survability. However, the combo is actually separated by a weapon swap and not meant to do damage.

Hundred blades does a ton more damage than blurred frenzey.

Can you please posted the build you are arguing that is OP? Mesmer have so many variable of builds in spvp that everyone will have a different opinion

In fact, my joke build is a balance build which allow me to fight 1 vs many physical damage classes.