Guild Wars 2

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

And yet you still have not mentioned a single measure of how something is “OP”. In other words, you don’t have one.

So, my question then would be this- what is “OP” about being invulnerable, in and of itself? What would change if BF didn’t have the evasion on it, and somebody tried to use it on top of you?

Sigh, I have been ignoring you because it is not worth answering someone who wants to be… do not know how to put it a nice way… a “intelligent and philosophically minded individual”. It is not worth my time to actually present things to, even though someone already has including myself, and is already present in the definition in the word. Common sense can explain the meaning of term “over powered”. If you do not understand the phase/term, then please use the internet to look it up and then adjust the meaning of the word into a video game format. I have already explained it once and I will not repeat myself.

He’s bringing up a perfectly valid point. What is OP supposed to mean?

In WARhammer when they first released patch 1.4 that raised the Renknown Rank to 100 the first players who got RR 90 gear could LITERALLY solo 10-20 people. That was OP. A RR100 player could easily solo 24 RR 80 people. Literally RR 100 might as well been god mode. That was op.

Mesmer’s in their current state against good players are “good” not op though.

Guan Yu on release in SMITE was OP. Xin Xao in League of Legends on release was OP.

I don’t see mesmer’s as being as close to game breaking as the examples I’ve just given. Mesmer’s are on the side of strong for sure but so are DD ele’s, Healway Guardian, Regen Rangers, Condi Engi’s, etc.

“sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME”. I stopped reading there…

Dude Mesmers are meant to be the dueling class we are great in 1v1 situations but our group worth is garbage we are more selfish then thieves but if you want the invul off blurred then make it so our clones dont die in a hit make so they have half our health oh and make the ai 10x better also have blurred hit just as hard has HB we have the skills because our damage is not as high as other classes we have to set everything up for our damage to be extremely high.

Yendorion.2381:

“sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME”. I stopped reading there…

depending on the build. its not that hard to do. Kill the necro first since conditions are mesmer’s worse nightmare then kill the guard.

Depending on the build, this feat will be pretty difficult if the op does not bring condition removal

loseridoit.2756:

I kidda agree that that combo have a ridiculous amount of survability. However, the combo is actually separated by a weapon swap and not meant to do damage.

Hundred blades does a ton more damage than blurred frenzey.

Can you please posted the build you are arguing that is OP? Mesmer have so many variable of builds in spvp that everyone will have a different opinion

In fact, my joke build is a balance build which allow me to fight 1 vs many physical damage classes.

It is just the staple shatter build, 20/20/0/0/30. With Sword/Pistol (or sword)—-Staff. Sigil for Sword-Fire, Pistol-Leeching (my preferred), Staff—Leeching. Since you can only swap weapons every 10 seconds you will get the leeching effect every time which heals for 1-1.5k which is nice.
Traits:
20 First Line: Trait I and VII
20 Second Line: Trait V (or II) and X
0 Third
0 Fourth
30 Fifth: Trait I, VI, and XI

Pretty standard all except for the sigil. The Runes I run are divinity if I remember correctly to round out a little health and armor. I also use a berserker amulet.

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

I kidda agree that that combo have a ridiculous amount of survability. However, the combo is actually separated by a weapon swap and not meant to do damage.

Hundred blades does a ton more damage than blurred frenzey.

Can you please posted the build you are arguing that is OP? Mesmer have so many variable of builds in spvp that everyone will have a different opinion

In fact, my joke build is a balance build which allow me to fight 1 vs many physical damage classes.

It is just the staple shatter build, 20/20/0/0/30. With Sword/Pistol (or sword)—-Staff. Sigil for Sword-Fire, Pistol-Leeching (my preferred), Staff—Leeching. Since you can only swap weapons every 10 seconds you will get the leeching effect every time which heals for 1-1.5k which is nice.
Traits:
20 First Line: Trait I and VII
20 Second Line: Trait V (or II) and X
0 Third
0 Fourth
30 Fifth: Trait I, VI, and XI

Pretty standard all except for the sigil. The Runes I run are divinity if I remember correctly to round out a little health and armor. I also use a berserker amulet.

utilities?

Godmoney.2048:

He’s bringing up a perfectly valid point. What is OP supposed to mean?

In WARhammer when they first released patch 1.4 that raised the Renknown Rank to 100 the first players who got RR 90 gear could LITERALLY solo 10-20 people. That was OP. A RR100 player could easily solo 24 RR 80 people. Literally RR 100 might as well been god mode. That was op.

Mesmer’s in their current state against good players are “good” not op though.

Guan Yu on release in SMITE was OP. Xin Xao in League of Legends on release was OP.

I don’t see mesmer’s as being as close to game breaking as the examples I’ve just given. Mesmer’s are on the side of strong for sure but so are DD ele’s, Healway Guardian, Regen Rangers, Condi Engi’s, etc.

The English language has definitions for words. Over Powered, in gamer terminology is this: Being far superior to anything any other profession can weld. Insurmountable in terms of defense and offensive capability.

In another sense, no other skill another profession has can come close (even a little) to Blurred Frenzy in the terms of usefulness. It is pretty cheesy. It is not the skill itself that makes it cheesy. It is the cool down plus what it does and how it does it that combine to make this skill OP. No other self rooting skill turns toward the target. No other self rooting skill is completely unstoppable on use (the Thief’s flurry has a small window where you can stun or stop the skill). No other invulnerable state can be ended early like Blurred Frenzy. These things all add up to make a pretty outstanding skill on a mere 8 second cool down.

Edit: Also forgot to note the length of the invulnerable state. 2 seconds. Thief’s evades for what, lets be nice, 0.75 seconds? Rangers evade at best 0.5 seconds?

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

loseridoit.2756:

Yendorion.2381:

“sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME”. I stopped reading there…

depending on the build. its not that hard to do. Kill the necro first since conditions are mesmer’s worse nightmare then kill the guard.

Depending on the build, this feat will be pretty difficult if the op does not bring condition removal

I burst down the Necromancer in 3 waves of clones/phantmas using Mind Wrack/Cry/Mind Wrack. So he was alive for a little over, I would say, 20-30 seconds. Boons mean nothing to a Mesmer since I can easily strip them 4 at a time. Also note this damage is aoe and I am pretty sure the Guardian ate some of the Mind Wrack the second time around as he was standing to close (which is another huge point for Mesmer AoE massive damage).

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

yikes. not a standard build. your build is pure dueling

usually people run

mirror images or decoy, portal, blink or illusion of life

noone said mesemers were as bad as warriors. noone is as bad as a warrior. what were you using to strip boons from a necro 4 at a time? arcane thievery?

are you saying that if you were fighting a mesmer you would have eaten 3 shatters (9clones) and still expect to be considered good?

i think the major thing you are missing is how bad spvp people are. with your sooooo many hours of play i would think you could see that though.

the other thing is.. if you play the worst class in game which you do.. and have for a long time.. not sure why since you are sooooooo educated in mmo pvp. once you get on a functioning class it is easier to play. the basics of the game stay the same but you trade your garbage skills for useless ones.

im not even sure what your point is in this thread.. other then to whine like a chick. do you think mesmers should be made worse so your garbage profession can push 1 button and win? in order to have warrior functional they would need a total remake.

almost any profession has a chance vs mesmer if they know how to play. and dont play warriors in pvp for no reason. warrior is garbage we get it. but why come here to complain about your garbage profession. go to your own forum.

you keep talking about blur frenz being an op defensive tool which it is i guess. but if you are using frenzy as a defensive tool you are not using it as an offensive and it is the only source of damage sword has. i can just picture youur game play since you think the point of sword is to invuln for 2 seconds. you hide behind a rock or wall spam some clones shatter them… hide or run or frenzy and try to stall until you can generate some more clones,,,, hide and run away and hope you dont get targeted. yay your good. you played some crap people get over yourself.

Vanthian.9267:

Godmoney.2048:

He’s bringing up a perfectly valid point. What is OP supposed to mean?

In WARhammer when they first released patch 1.4 that raised the Renknown Rank to 100 the first players who got RR 90 gear could LITERALLY solo 10-20 people. That was OP. A RR100 player could easily solo 24 RR 80 people. Literally RR 100 might as well been god mode. That was op.

Mesmer’s in their current state against good players are “good” not op though.

Guan Yu on release in SMITE was OP. Xin Xao in League of Legends on release was OP.

I don’t see mesmer’s as being as close to game breaking as the examples I’ve just given. Mesmer’s are on the side of strong for sure but so are DD ele’s, Healway Guardian, Regen Rangers, Condi Engi’s, etc.

The English language has definitions for words. Over Powered, in gamer terminology is this: Being far superior to anything any other profession can weld. Insurmountable in terms of defense and offensive capability.

In another sense, no other skill another profession has can come close (even a little) to Blurred Frenzy in the terms of usefulness. It is pretty cheesy. It is not the skill itself that makes it cheesy. It is the cool down plus what it does and how it does it that combine to make this skill OP. No other self rooting skill turns toward the target. No other self rooting skill is completely unstoppable on use (the Thief’s flurry has a small window where you can stun or stop the skill). No other invulnerable state can be ended early like Blurred Frenzy. These things all add up to make a pretty outstanding skill on a mere 8 second cool down.

Edit: Also forgot to note the length of the invulnerable state. 2 seconds. Thief’s evades for what, lets be nice, 0.75 seconds? Rangers evade at best 0.5 seconds?

I can make the same arguement for thieves stealth, healway guardians dodge heal, DD ele’s cond removal and healing, etc.

You make it sound like the entire game is ran by mesmer’s. If mesmers were as op as you say then everyone would main them. If mesmer’s were that op people would be quitting the game in droves. If mesmer’s were that op there would be nothing but nerf mesmer threads in teh forums.

My healway Guardian feels just as strong as any of my mesmer specs but in different ways.

And? What does that mean? Do you know what players were behind the keyboard? Perhaps childs… I have played 20/20/0/0/30 lots of times and I remember some nice combats against good guardians, really hard to take down and yet others that it was ridiculous to see being guardians. The same in case of necros.

In my opinion, having won a necro and guardian at a time does not prove anything. I have done it too, probably against regular players, i don’t have a crystal ball to know it. But… Search in youtube and you’ll find similar examples of other professions doing the same too. You don’t need to be a mesmer for do it.

loseridoit.2756:

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

yikes. not a standard build. your build is pure dueling

usually people run

mirror images or decoy, portal, blink or illusion of life

Above in the other post I said standard Shatter, not standard tPvP build. This is a self build for Hot Joins. I have only seen portal once in hot joins.

zaxon.6819:

you keep talking about blur frenz being an op defensive tool which it is i guess. but if you are using frenzy as a defensive tool you are not using it as an offensive and it is the only source of damage sword has. i can just picture youur game play since you think the point of sword is to invuln for 2 seconds. you hide behind a rock or wall spam some clones shatter them… hide or run or frenzy and try to stall until you can generate some more clones,,,, hide and run away and hope you dont get targeted. yay your good. you played some crap people get over yourself.

Actually no, I don’t run and hide. I actually stay with the person because they don’t’ expect that. That also utilizes my traits better since I create a shatter on myself. I do not use mind wrack unless I am on them, which is most of the time. However, I do shatter then instantly spawn a Phantasm. It would be pretty dumb not to considering it can deal damage for 15 seconds or so while I get into position for my next shatter while it is on cool down.

The fight occurred on the Legacy of the Foefire map on the Quarry node. So the only place to run and hide would be to the south which would have been their base.

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

yikes. not a standard build. your build is pure dueling

usually people run

mirror images or decoy, portal, blink or illusion of life

Above in the other post I said standard Shatter, not standard tPvP build. This is a self build for Hot Joins. I have only seen portal once in hot joins.

And once again who thinks hotjoins are valid places to compare pvp builds? For all you know there are 13 year olds behind the keyboards.

My guild does hotjoin all the time to duel and test builds……….btw half my guild are noob players who i have to explain why they shouldnt keyboard turn. (no offense to guildies meant, just saying) Hot join is no place to judge anything, only a noob would use that to get a sense of balance.

Apparently OP missed my last post…. I’m the right circumstances any profession can take on more than 1 and walk away. Since you’re using hotjoin as an example, the only profession I’ve not taken on 2+ by myself and won was with a Guardian and a warrior… Then again I’ve never tried because heavy Armor isn’t my thing.

Example; my last post-I beat 2 people at once with a thief in hot join. I’ve taken the same build in to tpvp… fought a Necro and dd ele at once. The results were far different than in hotjoin…. The fight was longer and much harder and in the end, I was stomped.

What I’m saying is there are far too many variables to call something op in an apparently non competitive environment. Player skill, player build, coordination, etc. Sometimes just having an ideal position can make all the difference…

I’ve fought several mesmers… I’ve lost some, but I’ve also won some. Never has a blurred frenzy been why I’ve lost. I stand back, and wait for it to be done and finish. It isn’t like mesmers are not rooted. They can’t go anywhere!

ehh. im going to hotjoin some spvp on a lvl 2 warrior tonight.. if i beat up anyone standing next to a bunker guardian warriors are official op.

…. level matters not in spvp….. o.o

zaxon.6819:

ehh. im going to hotjoin some spvp on a lvl 2 warrior tonight.. if i beat up anyone standing next to a bunker guardian warriors are official op.

Cool ill go make a glass cannon elem and stand next to it so you can then start a rant post in warriors forums teling ppl how OP they are :P

i understand lvls dont matter in spvp. but not even/ever having a warrior does.

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

And yet you still have not mentioned a single measure of how something is “OP”. In other words, you don’t have one.

So, my question then would be this- what is “OP” about being invulnerable, in and of itself? What would change if BF didn’t have the evasion on it, and somebody tried to use it on top of you?

Sigh, I have been ignoring you because it is not worth answering someone who wants to be… do not know how to put it a nice way… a “intelligent and philosophically minded individual”. It is not worth my time to actually present things to, even though someone already has including myself, and is already present in the definition in the word. Common sense can explain the meaning of term “over powered”. If you do not understand the phase/term, then please use the internet to look it up and then adjust the meaning of the word into a video game format. I have already explained it once and I will not repeat myself.

You’re very assuming for a person who knows nothing about me. Do you really want to gamble on my stupidity?

Also, the grammatically correct term would be “an intelligent and philosophically minded individual”. I also believe there would be a hyphen between “philosophically” and “minded”.

Now, to continue. Yes, I know what the definition of the word is. However, the definition also requires some unit of measurement. For example, if I said “my kitten is better” without referring to any past statement, my sentence would make no sense. That’s because “better” is defined as, in this sense, “of a more excellent or effective type or quality”. “More” is also a relative term; it means an increased quantity. Increased from what? You get the idea. Thus, my sentence that “my kitten is better” makes no sense. On the other hand, if I said that “my kitten is better than your kitten”, then I would be referring to another comparable object as a unit of measurement for my kitten being “better”.

So, again, I’ll ask: what unit of measurement do you use to decide whether or not something is overpowered, since it is a relative term? What makes your unit of measurement any more correct than any other unit of measurement? Finally, why should we use your unit of measurement anyways?

I’ve defeated plenty of mesmers, many of which used mainhand sword/blurred frenzy, and burst/zerker builds. They’ve ranged in skill level from average to extremely good. I’ve always used the, in the opinion of the massess, worst mesmer weapons available to do it (scepter torch). Yet their blurred frenzy and utility cycling did not save them. Everything came down to knowing the class, mechanics, builds, and experience.

Hell, I remember one particular zerker, sword using mesmer who 2v1’d me with a buddy of his. Still didn’t beat me.

So your claim is that mesmer are OP with an 8 second auto win button. Yet there’s no shortage of players out there who can, from experience, state otherwise. Funny thing is, to counter your claims you only need one.

i would say blurred frenzy is a good skill. but if you are using it as a defensive tool its a waste imo. may as well just dodge roll instead and use your frenzy to kill something.

Arganthium.5638:

So, again, I’ll ask: what unit of measurement do you use to decide whether or not something is overpowered, since it is a relative term? What makes your unit of measurement any more correct than any other unit of measurement? Finally, why should we use your unit of measurement anyways?

You are the type of person who would argue for the sake of it. The unit is there and already explained as it has been since the beginning. You refuse to accept that the word defines itself and its own “measure” just being here. It has been stated multiple times…. the measure is against similar skills of the same design. To make this 100% clear, as it has already been stated twice now, SELF ROOT CHANNELED SKILLS. By golly I do believe that is the type of skill Blurred Frenzy is in Guild Wars 2! It has been said by not just me, but another as well. The other poster was kind enough to link the other two said skill and explain, as he called, “lol-balancing” of the three. Enough is enough. You think you are trying to dig in some type of philosophical debate when the debate is already dead and over with some time ago on what your “measure unit” is for the skills.

From your perspective you are asking me why I think 5 inches is longer than 2 inches. When it has been stated multiple times that the 5 inches is longer than the 2. Yet, you continually seek to try and justify that I have no unit of measurement between the two. The two things are similar, as in they both are the measurement of length (in our real case we are talking about self root channels), but yet you refuse to accept that you can compare the two just with that simple understanding of the basic definition.

This is not college. You will not receive a A+ for trying to fluff a argument.

If you choose to try and “dig” some more, please do so in your own backyard as I grow tried of this.

zaxon.6819:

i would say blurred frenzy is a good skill. but if you are using it as a defensive tool its a waste imo. may as well just dodge roll instead and use your frenzy to kill something.

I don’t use it only for defense. I am saying it is coupled together with offense and defense unlike Hundred Blades for the Warrior. Also, a dodge roll doesn’t make you completely invulnerable to attacks for 2 seconds. Dodges are more like 0.75 seconds. You can also not dodge while immobilized.

zaxon.6819:

ehh. im going to hotjoin some spvp on a lvl 2 warrior tonight.. if i beat up anyone standing next to a bunker guardian warriors are official op.

Yes, go and find the worst possible people to try the Warrior against. I am sure you will still find it very hard to win.

The people I fought were not horrible but I openly admitted they are not the best (they are a little below average/average at best). This doesn’t change the fact that even though I have the skill to beat said people I know that I would never have been able to do so on Warrior. I have played Warrior much longer than Mesmer and should be able to do more with the Warrior, but that is not the case due to class balancing.

Anyway I am done responding to comments. Best of luck in game and have fun, but don’t forget to try Warrior out in sPvP.

Wow you guys actually responded to this guy into a two page thread? Obvious troll is obvious lol

Mesmer is not overpowered.

Is it possible that it’s the best class in the game, particularly at dueling? Yeah, sure.

Does it permeate and dominate the game at any level of play? No, it does not.

As to Blurred Frenzy, which is really the only skill you’ve been able to make a solid argument about for being too strong, you really need to look at what else MH Sword does. It can…

1) Perform a lackluster auto-attack.

2) Generate melee clones that die instantly to enemy auto-attacks.

3) Close a gap and immobilize its target. If it doesn’t bug out, which is another topic.

Of those, the only particularly useful thing is Illusionary Leap. Let’s compare to, say, Thief Sword in a Pistol Whip build…

1) More damage. By quite a lot.

2) Gets you in and out again, without having to swap weapons.

3) Shorter invulnerability.

4) Less reliable cripple.

5) Innate condition removal.

Assuming you’re playing against anyone who knows what they’re doing, there are very few cases where you’re going to be being focused for the entire duration of Blurred Frenzy. Opponents will, instead, simply wait until it drops and try to immediately nuke you afterwards, particularly if they know your Distortion is on CD.

Sure, it’ll help you take AOE in big fights without worrying, and silly people will blow CDs on you, but really you can count on it to negate maybe one second of actual damage.

Sword in a Thief build gives you a shorter duration invulnerability. Obviously not as good in most situations, but for the reasons above is still pretty close overall, and it has way more damage attached to it, more mobility, and a built-in condition removal.

So what’s this about Blurred Frenzy being broken again? Sure, if you tacked the skill onto another weapon it might be very silly, but MH Sword itself is pretty much only useful for closing gaps and using Blurred Frenzy. Even its damage is pretty bad, and is only made worse for the fact that Mesmer cannot take prolonged melee engagements without blowing a handful of fairly long CDs.

TBH, I don’t know if that particular argument holds water, but you’re doing something very classic when it comes to claiming something is ‘too strong’ – you’re taking a single element of a larger design and comparing it to a single element of some other large design. Sure, Blurred Frenzy can be considered stronger Pistol Whip in a vacuum, but that doesn’t make it overpowered because you can’t just substitute Blurred Frenzy for Pistol Whip.

tl;dr – You really need to rethink how you’re comparing things. Could you be right? Sure. Is your main argument an atrocious pile that I have no trouble dismissing for pretty straightforward reasons? Yes, yes it is.

Vanthian.9267:

Arganthium.5638:

So, again, I’ll ask: what unit of measurement do you use to decide whether or not something is overpowered, since it is a relative term? What makes your unit of measurement any more correct than any other unit of measurement? Finally, why should we use your unit of measurement anyways?

You are the type of person who would argue for the sake of it. The unit is there and already explained as it has been since the beginning. You refuse to accept that the word defines itself and its own “measure” just being here. It has been stated multiple times…. the measure is against similar skills of the same design. To make this 100% clear, as it has already been stated twice now, SELkittenROOT CHANNELED SKILLS. By golly I do believe that is the type of skill Blurred Frenzy is in Guild Wars 2! It has been said by not just me, but another as well. The other poster was kind enough to link the other two said skill and explain, as he called, “lol-balancing” of the three. Enough is enough. You think you are trying to dig in some type of philosophical debate when the debate is already dead and over with some time ago on what your “measure unit” is for the skills.

From your perspective you are asking me why I think 5 inches is longer than 2 inches. When it has been stated multiple times that the 5 inches is longer than the 2. Yet, you continually seek to try and justify that I have no unit of measurement between the two. The two things are similar, as in they both are the measurement of length (in our real case we are talking about self root channels), but yet you refuse to accept that you can compare the two just with that simple understanding of the basic definition.

This is not college. You will not receive a A+ for trying to fluff a argument.

If you choose to try and “dig” some more, please do so in your own backyard as I grow tried of this.

ok dude first of all:
you are the one arguing here just for the sake of it. it seems like u just mgot frustrated with warrior in spvp which is clearly up compared to other classes in spvp

secondly
u attack and insult everyone in here, because they called u on your troll thread

3
u made a mesmer run a power build that is strong in spvp but not that great in wvw zergfights compared to other classes where btw the warior shines

4
u come into our foum, act like you are a mesmer expert which u are clearly not and expect people to agre with all the insults and theory based comments(and u claim it is op because u 2v1 and won which doesnt make a class op…check out the thief he can 4v1 and stay alive and kill)

5
sry but in here i feel like you are even below college level otherwise u wouldn’t have made such a thread!

I’ve taken on people 1v2 playing as every class in the game in hotjoin… and won vs. random players.

I do this to sort of test out new class builds etc. quite often. It helps me even if I don’t wind up using that class/spec to just have deeper insight.

I would only consider myself an average skill player.

Thus every class in the game is OP because hotjoin is such a good representation of balance.

Lol at this thread. The guy says most of mesmer damage is ranged and then says that he is almost always next to the enemy to take advantage of the shatter on self…

If mesmer is really that OP and you’re really that good, please go and do the same thing you did and RECORD.

I can bet they weren’t as decente you think they were and they really messed up.
If you play against people who know their kitten you’ll never see that “OPness” shine through like that.

Jackums.3496:

4. If you think the D/D Ele is, or was, only “OP” in organised groups, then you’ve clearly never played or seen a good D/D Ele. The D/D Ele is one of the best dueling specs in the entire game. The rest of your post loses credibility solely for this blatantly wrong claim.

TL;DR: Learn to play.

Are you sure you should tell people to l2p while ignoring wich was the pvp main offender?
(S/D 0/0/10/30/30 different from D/D 0/10/0/30/30 and yes its all about that 10 points and main hand weapon giving Birth to permaprotection wall with legs)

seems 90% of players ignore this and still talk about OPness of things….curious…

TrolI thread for a troIl profession. Why complain?

Vanthian.9267:

PREFACE
I am not claiming to be pro nor be the best. Simply stating what happened and how I came to what I think.

Finally tried out the Mesmer profession in sPvP. I am fairly adept with all classes having played all of them at least to level 50; I currently have most at level 80. I only played Warrior in sPvP because I liked the challenge. I finally decided to toss in my hat because it is obvious that Warriors will be broken for still quite some time, so I decided to give the profession I thought would be the most OP a whirl.

I understand most people think D/D Elementalist is OP, but that is only true when in a organized group of 3 or more. It is the combined healing/condition clearing that makes them a problem. I could kill unskilled/low skilled Eles on my Warrior as well as many other classes up to skilled level, but I decided to give up the struggle with trying to best someone that is really skilled and go on to something I thought would be easier.

….And boy… did I ever choose right. How over powered can a class be? How has no one noticed how disgusting this is? After 50 games and only leveling to 80 I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease. I left the fight with 80% health. Granted I had no cool downs left, but I won. I stomped both of them. To add to the shame, I am full berserker and have at least ten times the ability to survive than my Warrior.

Now, I will say they were not the best out of the bunch I have ever played, but they were not the worst either. The Warrior profession has trouble enough with one person. Dear Balthazar, throw in another you are practically dead on the spot. I easily 1v1 and 1v2 now. I have only died so far to mob balls in hot join. After playing the Warrior for so long switching to Mesmer makes me feel like a Giant walking among flees.

It is just outrageous that a professions can be so good while other suffer horribly. I will most likely not stick with Mesmer as there is no challenge what so ever in killing anyone.

So, congratulations I guess on picking the clearly OP class in this game. You can try to defend it but there is a clear gap in professions and Mesmer is sitting very high.

Any mesmer that claims the class is not OP: I just ask him/her to join a duel with them playing as a warrior vs. a good mesmer. It’s funny seeing them panic and start making excuses to get out of it.

I understand, however, that some people need OP classes to carry them.

XII.9401:

Vanthian.9267:

PREFACE
I am not claiming to be pro nor be the best. Simply stating what happened and how I came to what I think.

Finally tried out the Mesmer profession in sPvP. I am fairly adept with all classes having played all of them at least to level 50; I currently have most at level 80. I only played Warrior in sPvP because I liked the challenge. I finally decided to toss in my hat because it is obvious that Warriors will be broken for still quite some time, so I decided to give the profession I thought would be the most OP a whirl.

I understand most people think D/D Elementalist is OP, but that is only true when in a organized group of 3 or more. It is the combined healing/condition clearing that makes them a problem. I could kill unskilled/low skilled Eles on my Warrior as well as many other classes up to skilled level, but I decided to give up the struggle with trying to best someone that is really skilled and go on to something I thought would be easier.

….And boy… did I ever choose right. How over powered can a class be? How has no one noticed how disgusting this is? After 50 games and only leveling to 80 I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease. I left the fight with 80% health. Granted I had no cool downs left, but I won. I stomped both of them. To add to the shame, I am full berserker and have at least ten times the ability to survive than my Warrior.

Now, I will say they were not the best out of the bunch I have ever played, but they were not the worst either. The Warrior profession has trouble enough with one person. Dear Balthazar, throw in another you are practically dead on the spot. I easily 1v1 and 1v2 now. I have only died so far to mob balls in hot join. After playing the Warrior for so long switching to Mesmer makes me feel like a Giant walking among flees.

It is just outrageous that a professions can be so good while other suffer horribly. I will most likely not stick with Mesmer as there is no challenge what so ever in killing anyone.

So, congratulations I guess on picking the clearly OP class in this game. You can try to defend it but there is a clear gap in professions and Mesmer is sitting very high.

Any mesmer that claims the class is not OP: I just ask him/her to join a duel with them playing as a warrior vs. a good mesmer. It’s funny seeing them panic and start making excuses to get out of it.

I understand, however, that some people need OP classes to carry them.

again warriors are the weakest class in spvp. any other class can seem op vs them. so your little troll comment is pretty useless here as u just insulted everyone that plays a mesmer especially the ones that play it since start. so why dont u go and troll somewhere else yeah?

@OP:
The scenario you described seems actually very likely. I believe Mesmer is one of the professions, that can easily combat 1v1 and 1v2, even 1v3. However, one must now look deeper into the matter. But I can give mainly a WvW point of perspective, where imho the balance can be quite different from sPvP.

Comparing Warrior and Mesmer
This comparison is in favor of the Mesmer. Allone the ability to cloak and teleport gives Mesmers the ability to avoid most of melee dmg. I have met only a few warriors, who are a danger to me in smal scale combat. However, especially in WvW, you have not only the task to win small duels. In matters of duels, the Mesmer as magical duelist, is better than the warrior from my point of view.

Player Skill
However, at a high level of skill players have realized to exploit the strenghts of their professions to compensate for the disatvantages. I myself like to think I have a desent level of skill. A guild mate of mine though, who playes a far superior mesmer to my own, although mesmer is my main, now is running guardian and has no complaints at all. He finds it quite fun and doesn’t see one of both superior. I for instance play a necro alt in WvW from time to time and found myself during leveling up (I was lvl 60 at that time) fighting 3 lvl 80 players in one of the borderlands, who weren’t able to defeat me. Eventually they run of, after I repeatedly downed them. Just I could not finish one. Should I know say that Necro is OP?

Statistics
Olthough players have thrown hate speeches at me, because I am a statistics fanatic, I still must say, that you have described only one scenario. That does not give much weight to your experience in matters of an objectiv perseption (a contradiction in itself, if you think about it). As stated by others, you can only judge the ability comming from the profession design when you face players with an equal level of skill. Otherwise your personal skill interferes with this experiment and you might have measured only your prersonal skill level against those two.

Play Style
What also comes to mind is personal play style. Maybe some players are more suited to play mesmer, others are more suited to play Warrior, and others own ppl as Thieves.

What do I want to say?
Imho Mesmer is a very strong profession. And defeating a warrior with a mesmer is not as challanging as defeating a mesmer with a warrior I might imagine (I do not have a warrior of my own, but I have fought plenty). Looking through this forum, you will find posts stating the difference to your perception and say that Mesmer is not good at all.

I do believe that you have done, what you say. I just doubt, that this singular experience qualifies to label Mesmer far as superior to anything else.

I am not implying…
Most PvP players/dev about cantrip ele were….

Also they STATED ele never been a problem in WWW…..

Here you go….
“The ele is the PvP extremely powerful at evasion right now. But even then, he bleeds into WvW, he is adamantly not useful in PvE as a damage mitigator.”

I followed the discussion that led to current nerfs and it proves how most forum posters just heard few words and they didn t get how www is different from PvP.

PvE= all about zerkers (mesmer balanced)
PvP= all about capture points/spirit watch (here any bunker or mobile profession is OP now is ranger turn to be the fotm…) i.e. all about bunkers
WWW= here surviving in a spot is quite useless you need to actualy do/kill things.

That is why people should discuss thing makinfg differences.

if something is OP in PvP it may be even BAD in WWW
if something is bad in PvP it could be strong or OP in WWW (warriors, thieves)

You made instead the same mistake that thread starter did.

Vanthian.9267:

So, congratulations I guess on picking the clearly OP class in this game. You can try to defend it but there is a clear gap in professions and Mesmer is sitting very high.

I hope you got what you wanted! Now I will feel really sad every time I kill a warrior. congratulation Sir :*(

hot join is a joke. real tpvp is much more balanced. Mesmer is very good at owning newbs .

oh well than forgive me…
But even there is not about profession….as much as designing a “the most hairy character get points” make norn OP in the game.

If you designed a killcount gamemode…mesmer would still be strong….bunkers would lose most of their appeals.

Is more that designing a game mode around surviving in a square can be silly…..
And even worse something like spirit watch…..(as i predicted now is ranger is OP turn).

rather than the profession

Mesmer is easy, Phantasmal is almost faceroll level. However, it isn’t OP.

Now Thief… Thief is starting to get a little OP…

As it stands, Mesmer is by far the most OP class for 1v1 in this game.

You will lose to good thieves and eles… You should attend to fight clubs in WvW in order to find people who can actually fight back. People in fight clubs are very used to fighting mesmers and know your build through and through. It’s entirely differend from some random spvp dudes doing their dailys. For gods sake, hot join is generally easier than lvl 10 fractals.
When you show me a video where you streamroll the best duelists of your opposing servers in WvW, I will agree that mesmer is indeed the #1 duel class. Let’s see if you actually have some meat to back up your so far quite empty words.
Currently and otherwise I believe it’s either d/d ele or a decent thief.

It is just the staple shatter build, 20/20/0/0/30. With Sword/Pistol (or sword)—-Staff. Sigil for Sword-Fire, Pistol-Leeching (my preferred), Staff—Leeching. Since you can only swap weapons every 10 seconds you will get the leeching effect every time which heals for 1-1.5k which is nice.
Traits:
20 First Line: Trait I and VII
20 Second Line: Trait V (or II) and X
0 Third
0 Fourth
30 Fifth: Trait I, VI, and XI

Pretty standard all except for the sigil. The Runes I run are divinity if I remember correctly to round out a little health and armor. I also use a berserker amulet.

Interesting. Whisp me in game and I shall duel you with my duel specced p/d thief. I’m not the best thief out there but still, if you win the fight easily I’ve got something to learn from you.