Why are you kittening? We got buffs….so kittening what if they gave Alacrity to a Legend no rev in this game will ever use.
Why is this sub forum so full of self entitled players who refuse to actually see the bigger picture of this game? Keep quiet before Anet hot fixes our buffs away. The players who know the big picture know that we should ALL keep mum…..we got away with one here fellas.
So, I should be happy to have ‘paid for’ a specialization that is no longer a specialization? I should be willing to give up anything for the good of the game?
It doesn’t matter.. Mesmer got buffs right? I suppose you’d be happy swinging a sword like a warrior, yes?
It doesn’t matter that Mesmer is a unique profession with it’s own identity. We should be willing to hand that to revenant because…. reasons… right?
That sounds a bit too close to religion or some segments of current politics for me.
Leave the game then. Get your pink tux and sit on the street all day long while playing on your ocarina. Special enough then? Gosh, mesmers got problems.
Its very annoying that Rev has it so incredibly easy to keep such a high alacrity uptime while chrono has to work their kitten off, relatively speaking, to get anywhere near that for party members.
This might be true… but while Mesmers might be stuck with a very specific rotation they do provide more to the group while doing so than a Revenant. Revenants can only spam one utility skill and AA. A majority of the healing coming out of this will be vasted.
It’s not like one of those options is more attractive than the other. Mesmers just had Alacrity first. Then again, I wouldn’t be too mad if it was a bit easier for Mesmers to apply Alacrity to their allies. I’m not a fan of party Alacrity being attached to Wells.
This might be true… but while Mesmers might be stuck with a very specific rotation they do provide more to the group while doing so than a Revenant. Revenants can only spam one utility skill and AA. A majority of the healing coming out of this will be vasted.
As far as boons go, yes. If the game had actually high incoming damage in some fights, their raw healing (after all the primary reason to bring a Ventari Rev) would be the alpha and omega. Their non-trivial uptime on Alacrity coupled with a small but consistent intake of might stacks is just a cherry on top.
And that’s what grates a bit. But I put it largely up to ANet frankly having no idea what to do with their classes. A main buffer class would be fine. Plenty games handled that before, look at Nurture Druids in DAoC. Raid buffs are fine, heck WoW is full of them, they share them among classes, too.
The devs just need to get together and actually do something about their class balance.
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Yup Carrighan nailed it. I think you still missed what I was trying to say Daniel Handler. Even though chrono can bring more utility than a healing rev can, we have to invest everything into our alacrity rotation, and keep a very strict rotation if we even hope to get that high while maintaining quickness. Yet rev literally presses 1 button and has as high of an alacrity uptime as we can pull off. Its annoying to say the least.
Rev has a minor trait that has better alacrity generation than anything that Chrono got. Even our shatters can’t generate 75% alacrity uptime on just ourselves, and they involve a bunch of skills intertwining to both summon the illusions and then destroy them.
Its very annoying that Rev has it so incredibly easy to keep such a high alacrity uptime while chrono has to work their kitten off, relatively speaking, to get anywhere near that for party members.
The quickness rotation is hard. The timing of distorts can be hard to pair with said quickness rotation. While this rotation is paired with alacrity, don’t get confused into thinking that Chrono somehow has it harder than Rev to maintain alacrity. Think about it this way, if I want to mimic ventair rev to max out healing and alacrity uptime and nothing else since the ventari Rev provides nothing else.
Inspiration, illusions, Chrono full magi/healing.
Shield 4, SotE Shield 4 = 100% uptime on alacrity.
Spam mantra of pain 5.8k heal in a 360 radius aoe. The herald heal has a 1 second delay and effectively a 4 second CD if they cast nothing else and a 240 radius. The chrono can chain the other mantras on CD for more healing while the Herald only auto attacks. Unlike the Herald, you also have 100% passive regen from phantasms for another 540 health per second and room for more utility.
So if you actually compare apples to apples, two builds that due nothing but heal and provide alacrity, Chrono alacrity is so much easier and better with 100% alacrity uptime and the healing isn’t that far behind when you chain mantras together. Meanwhile Ventari is at 75% alacrity uptime if they don’t ever move the tablet or swap legends and everyone stands perfectly inside that 240 bubble. If they swap to herald for boons/CC every 30 seconds, this drops down to 50% alacrity uptime. If they have to move the tablet a few times that’s another drop in alacrity uptime.
As far as boons go, yes. If the game had actually high incoming damage in some fights, their raw healing (after all the primary reason to bring a Ventari Rev) would be the alpha and omega. [snip]
Not really.
In this game, and all the games you mentioned, there are timers on bosses.
without the dps from quickness you will fail the boss.
otherwise we could take 10 guardians with full nomads and have them auto attack the boss for an hour.
Even if they edit boss timers Ventari is useless.
Ventari + any class is inferior to Druid + Chronomancer
99% of the time whether it’s raw, burst, sustain or whatever you want to call it
the only exception is range healing, something that only occurs in WvW
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If you have another class that has a trait that would give a group 10% dmg it wouldnt be a GotL ripoff it would just be a dmg buff trait.Of course it would have some inpact and would rival GotL but it will not lead to the downfall of druids because of this. Basically if the tablet would shorten the CD on skills similar like Alacrity would do it but it wouldnt have the same name and effect it would have the same function.
It it still bound to an altruistic trait and changes the usefullness of ventari, but chronos still have better alacrity uptime and ventari tablet revs are now basically the backup of chronos in raids.
Fully agreed.
Although, independent of what I as a Chronomancer main might or might not think about Alacrity on the tablet, it’s just a bad fit for the Rev. Extra effect? Cool! Alacrity specifically? Utter rubbish in 3 seconds and on a class which has ~0 personal benefit from it.
Id rather would have some seconds of block for allies. This could have awesome impact especcially in the new raid.
It would bring ventari to a very strong bunker position. Sadly there would be some icd involved with this to restricts its OPness.
Remember when Thief had almost exclusive rights to Stealth mechanics in this game, then, BAM, everyone and their grandma had some skill/ability/spell that gave them stealth and attacks while entering/leaving stealth. I’m not surprised that they are starting to do it with other classes no matter if its from a spec or not.
Remember when Thief had almost exclusive rights to Stealth mechanics in this game, then, BAM, everyone and their grandma had some skill/ability/spell that gave them stealth and attacks while entering/leaving stealth. I’m not surprised that they are starting to do it with other classes no matter if its from a spec or not.
I agree. I think anet is taking the wrong path by doing this though.
Remember when Thief had almost exclusive rights to Stealth mechanics in this game, then, BAM, everyone and their grandma had some skill/ability/spell that gave them stealth and attacks while entering/leaving stealth. I’m not surprised that they are starting to do it with other classes no matter if its from a spec or not.
I mean I know more than a few people who would be absolutely fine with stealth access in this game being lowered dramatically, even to the point of removing it completely from a few classes.
I mean I know more than a few people who would be absolutely fine with stealth access in this game being lowered dramatically, even to the point of removing it completely from a few classes.
My problem is that it doesn’t work like in most other MMOs.
Where stealth is permanent, but cannot be activated once engaged in combat. You’ve been found, that’s it.
In other words you get to freely pick when you join the fight, but not how you leave the fight or break target lock.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I mean I know more than a few people who would be absolutely fine with stealth access in this game being lowered dramatically, even to the point of removing it completely from a few classes.
My problem is that it doesn’t work like in most other MMOs.
Where stealth is permanent, but cannot be activated once engaged in combat. You’ve been found, that’s it.
In other words you get to freely pick when you join the fight, but not how you leave the fight or break target lock.
Yea I agree with you. I think that its really a unique mechanic that you can use stealth in combat in GW2, but the balancing problems that come with that are huge. Short of just reducing access to stealth and giving each class an AoE reveal (even if its a kitten skill and it will never be taken, each class deserves access to a skill to force other players out of stealth) though, I don’t know what else I would change to it at the moment. As any further changes would mean you’d have to redesign thief class.
So, alacrity being exclusive to Mesmers would make all the bad Mes players out there become good? Even me…? I highly doubt it Would it even make ANY frkn difference if alacrity were exclusive to Mesmers? No? Then I really don’t get the point of this whole discussion, maybe I’m just dumb.
This reminds me so much of a girl spotting another girl wearing the same dress and going crazy…
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Alacrity should be renamed and the buff should be spread further to other classes. Rev is an odd choice it would be more fitting for usage with an engineer via temporal gadget cause time machines. Guardian could have been given access through tomes if the still existed because that’s reading off spells and a time based on temporal spells could have worked. Rangers through some sort of unique pet, and the only way rev getting it would be if the original idea of time mages from GW1 panned out because then they’d have a hero that made sense.
Also Moa or similar skills should be shared too the mesmer is a bad class kept afloat with OP and required balloons. If we snipped the two balloons alacrity and Moa then maybe Mesmers could get the rework they need to be an all alround great class with viable builds a manipulation, glamour, mantra, and so forth style of builds are all terrible because niches are carrying the weight of our class and not its skills we have the worst diversity of all the classes it’s shatter or shatter and that’s our options with maybe wells I really have no clue how a well based Chrono would do.
Alacrity should be renamed and the buff should be spread further to other classes. Rev is an odd choice it would be more fitting for usage with an engineer via temporal gadget cause time machines. Guardian could have been given access through tomes if the still existed because that’s reading off spells and a time based on temporal spells could have worked. Rangers through some sort of unique pet, and the only way rev getting it would be if the original idea of time mages from GW1 panned out because then they’d have a hero that made sense.
Also Moa or similar skills should be shared too the mesmer is a bad class kept afloat with OP and required balloons. If we snipped the two balloons alacrity and Moa then maybe Mesmers could get the rework they need to be an all alround great class with viable builds a manipulation, glamour, mantra, and so forth style of builds are all terrible because niches are carrying the weight of our class and not its skills we have the worst diversity of all the classes it’s shatter or shatter and that’s our options with maybe wells I really have no clue how a well based Chrono would do.
Giving away Moa more (engineers already have access to it) would not make ANet redesign mesmer. And they can redesign the class without giving away Moa.
This wouldn’t accomplish anything to continue giving away unique mesmer skills/effects.
Alacrity should be renamed and the buff should be spread further to other classes. Rev is an odd choice it would be more fitting for usage with an engineer via temporal gadget cause time machines. Guardian could have been given access through tomes if the still existed because that’s reading off spells and a time based on temporal spells could have worked. Rangers through some sort of unique pet, and the only way rev getting it would be if the original idea of time mages from GW1 panned out because then they’d have a hero that made sense.
Also Moa or similar skills should be shared too the mesmer is a bad class kept afloat with OP and required balloons. If we snipped the two balloons alacrity and Moa then maybe Mesmers could get the rework they need to be an all alround great class with viable builds a manipulation, glamour, mantra, and so forth style of builds are all terrible because niches are carrying the weight of our class and not its skills we have the worst diversity of all the classes it’s shatter or shatter and that’s our options with maybe wells I really have no clue how a well based Chrono would do.
Giving away Moa more (engineers already have access to it) would not make ANet redesign mesmer. And they can redesign the class without giving away Moa.
This wouldn’t accomplish anything to continue giving away unique mesmer skills/effects.
Since this game started people have been asking for Moa to be nerfed and even Mesmers asked for Moa to be nerfed. It’s was useless in PVE and overpowered to the point our entire class hinged on it and was balanced around it. Since then of course they’ve obviously turned it into a signet and added those passive abilities while adjusting it’s CD. People wanted Moa nerfed so the other elites could be buffed and maintain balance but instead they buffed Moa and nerfed the other elites some more. PU nerfs hurting Mass Invis, conditions removed from glamours hurting Time Warp. Then added another crutch in the form of alacrity even nerfing alacrity output but mesmers are still taken because of it. Wouldn’t it be nice to be taken into a group not for our Alacrity, Portals, or Moa but rather because of our raw ability.
More or less chop down the overgrown tree blocking the light to the forest so that other things can finally get some light shined on them and grow together as one. I agree that giving it away to more classes might not get anet to fix some issues but I’ll still don’t think they’ll fix anything regarding Mesmer without addressing Moa and Alacrity. Heck and this point I’m positive that the next elite spec for Mesmer will also have some sort of OP gimmick.
I guess it boils down to the old bring the player not the class mentality vs the opposing bring the class not the player. I’m a mesmer main and tons of people have mesmers they just use those mesmers for alacrity in raids, moa in pvp, porting golems in wvw, and porting Jp runs in pve then shelving them afterwards.
While this is true, all that it screams to me is that mesmer needs to redesigned at a fundamental level. The class needs more help than changing a skill to a signet and changing some numbers, it needs a proper redesign, and at this point its not the only class that does.
There isn’t a problem with this. Games evolve as they get older, and stuff changes. Sometimes a class needs to be redesigned, so I really don’t understand why ANet shies away from it so much. Likewise, Revenant and thief could use some redesigns as well.
There is a significant problem with redesigning classes at the fundamental level, though what you mean by that isn’t exactly clear.
I’m of the belief that it’s better to leave a class than it is to reinvent what it does. The concept must be preserved; that’s the thing that people buy into when they choose the class. How it executes that ‘what’ is open to interpretation though; those kinds of things are changeable. Just to be clear, performance will not be a compelling reason to do what you suggest. On the other hand, concepts that prevent further design and execution are great reasons to redesign. Frankly, I think elite specs are the path that Anet has implemented to address these ‘fundamental discrepancies’. More likely they will have a more positive response to that kind of idea.
The problem with going that route is that some problems with mesmer design need to be fixed at a core level unless we want solutions that are either halfhearted or OP as hell.
Just look at IR and Chronophantasma when they were first released for all the proof you need. These traits are there precisely to keep our illusions out longer, because our class mechanic is self defeating. Instead of this being fixed at the core mesmer level, we instead got traits that were supposed to cover up this design problem, and to truthfully do that they were extremely OP, especially when combined with PoM. To solve the problem, ANet had to both nerf the chrono traits (which was justified), but also severely nerf core mesmer traits as well.
And the fact remains that the actual problem still exists. The chrono traits just cover it up, and when we get a new elite spec we won’t have them. ANet shouldn’t be using elite specs to cover up core class problems like this. Because inevitably when we get new elite specs either a significant portion of it will be very similar to chronomancer just to cover up these problems, or the problems won’t be covered up at all, except this time the core mesmer traits that were supposed to lessen them have already been nerfed hard.
While this is true, all that it screams to me is that mesmer needs to redesigned at a fundamental level. The class needs more help than changing a skill to a signet and changing some numbers, it needs a proper redesign, and at this point its not the only class that does.
Exactly this.
The number 1 priority for the devs should be take ~all classes back all the way to the concept stage, then scrap a good 50%-75% of each of them, skill/trait/utility wise. Not to say that most won’t be kept around in some way or another, but first of all, there needs to be tabula rasa.
I mean even classes with in-theory modern and refined class goals (Revenants as a role-swapper which re-implements the idea of the Elementalist stances) don’t work, because their design doesn’t work against the underlying design of the game (trait picks and item stats make role swapping impossible, nevermind that we don’t really have hard and defined roles other than healer and DPS).
The concept must be preserved; that’s the thing that people buy into when they choose the class.
That’s why I think they need to go back to the design stage: Most classes don’t have an underlying concept. They’re just skills and ideas thrown against a wall until some stuck, with 90% useless and no rhyme or reason to anything.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Yea I agree with you. Unfortunately this would be an extremely large undertaking, and we have seen that devs are stretched thin enough as it is for class balance/design unfortunately :/
Hopefully the next expansion will come with such an overhaul. Or, more likely, since they are taking their time with this one they won’t need to devote all of their devs to fixing the second expac after it releases, which should free up plenty of people to work on these redesigns. Only problem with waiting is that this will just get harder to do as time goes on.
I propose that we should put a complete overhaul initiative to the main forum and hear what other players say about that.
I myself play 8 of 9 classes and mesmer AND rev feel the most clunky at the moment.
A lot of traits and skills of other classes are flawed or neglected too and there should be a major rework like the june 2015 update where all traits where scrapped or reworked and new ones came into existance.
Would it even make ANY frkn difference if alacrity were exclusive to Mesmers? No? Then I really don’t get the point of this whole discussion, maybe I’m just dumb.