Guild Wars 2

blakdoxa.7520:

As some others mentions alacrity makes chronomancer one of the best supports

You forget to mention that we are also one of the worst dps classes, in a game where there are classes like war or rev who brings mandatory support aswell (facet of nature, might, fury, banners) while bringing 1.5/2x dps compared to chrono.

You also forget to mention in wvw there are only revenant, in pvp after the chronobunker nerf we actually sliding out of meta and in raid (pve endgame) we are holding not more than 1 spot over 10 while there are 3 classes (rev\war\ele) who actually bring from 6 to 8 spot by themself.

2/3 spot for warrior
2/3 spot for rev
2 spot for ele (sometimes 3 too)
1 spot for chrono

But yeah you’re right man, xxxx there are classes that brings 3x spot while chrono hold just 1, alacrity\chrono should be nerfed!!!

blakdoxa.7520:

not to mention their ability to fulfill a tank role due to wells and continuum shift.

You forgot to say even every other classes of the game can tank and that they’re tanking aswell.

Sabetha doesnt have any tank required and i’ve succesfully done the other 2 bosses with chrono tank, druid tank, engie tank, rev tank, war tank and even an ele tank.

There’s youtube filled of video of people doing all bosses using all the classes to tank, There is gorseval no updraft record with a druid tanking, there is 5 men vale guardian kill with a war tanking..

But yeah you’re right man, xxxx all classes can\are tanking, chrono shouldnt and should be nerfed\remove alacrity FTW.

blakdoxa.7520:

There ARE going to be more elite specs in the future and just HOW will Anet even begin to make another spec on par with chronomancer?

<cut>

There’s only two possibilities I can think of: either chronomancer gets nerfed to the ground to make the upcoming spec more appealing (i.e. sell dat xpac) OR the new spec is so ridiculously op that chronomancer put on a shelf (i.e. power creep).

You forget to say anet promised to add trait\new spec\new classes at gw2 release.

You forget to say anet took 3 years to add 1st spec\new classes in gw2 (with hot).

You also forget to say there’s no eta about any new spec and that, if anet is 3x times more faster than has been till now, we will have to wait 1 year to see other specialization.

But yeah you’re right man, it doesnt mind the present where actually chrono isnt by far nearly to be one of the strongest classes of the game. It doesn’t mind we hold 1 spot while there are 3 classes who are actually op and who hold between 2 or 3 spots… anet should nerf chrono\remove alacrity NOW for the future to avoid the dramatic option that if\when they will add some actually unknowed new specialization chorno could be op!!!

blakdoxa.7520:

Believe me when I say there are going to be more nerfs.

yeah! anet should really take you into account for a balance team job!

^Viable or barely viable Mesmers/Chronos are heresy. Also, they are scary. Must. Be. Nerfed.

Now!!!111!1!oneleven!!!1!

…it’s always the same story. I mean; people seem to be so used to Mesmers not being anywhere in the meta, that as soon as they make a tiny bit of an appearance in it, it must mean that they’ve suddenly become completely broken and overpowered. It doesn’t matter at all that even then, other classes can do the same (and often they still do it better than Mesmers)… if Mesmers can do it, they are OP. Mesmers are supposed to be trash tier. How dare you to want to be viable! Know your place, filthy Mesmers!

(Part of that post was obviously sarcasm. Felt like I need to add this; otherwise surely someone would claim that I actually agree with the moo-poo of some people).

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

blakdoxa.7520:

I don’t giving alacrity to the mesmer was the best idea either.
There ARE going to be more elite specs in the future and just HOW will Anet even begin to make another spec on par with chronomancer?
As some others mentions alacrity makes chronomancer one of the best supports, not to mention their ability to fulfill a tank role due to wells and continuum shift.
There’s only two possibilities I can think of: either chronomancer gets nerfed to the ground to make the upcoming spec more appealing (i.e. sell dat xpac) OR the new spec is so ridiculously op that chronomancer put on a shelf (i.e. power creep).

Believe me when I say there are going to be more nerfs.

Or the next elite brings mesmer damage on par with other classes. It’s not like raids are composed entirely of chronos.

I don’t want an elite spec to fix the problems with core mesmer. Elite specs should never fix massive glaring unintended weaknesses like huge dps ramp up times and a general lack of dps.

Though I must admit I find it hilarious when someone (not anyone in this thread) says mesmer dps is too high and should be nerfed.

Anyone remember the guangmath from before the spec patch that was vomiting crazy about how mesmer condie dps with pistol phantasms was going to be incredibly broken?

As frifox points out, and his comment also applied to AlphaWhite’s generous condi mesmer estimates, napkin math is one thing and it translating to game encounters is an entirely different beast.

Mesmers suffer the same thing rangers do. A large percentage of their damage does not benefit from runes or sigils (phantasms/pets) or food damage modifiers. Ascended upgrades don’t confer the same scaling benefits to AI classes as they do to classes whose entirety of damage comes from themselves.

And instead of fixing ranger and mesmer they chose to turn them into niche support classes instead. At least mesmer got the less garbage deal as they didn’t get forced to become a healer overnight to stay relevant to raids.

But both are buff/healbots.

3 years later the massive differences in DPS across classes still haven’t been fixed, and something as simple as balancing autoattack damag across classes hasn’t even been attempted since their rationale is to allow PvP “e-sports” to interfere with PvE balancing.

The obvious take is this game will never be taken seriously in PvE or PvP given the massive imbalances allowed to fester since developers will not balance them separately.

This game won’t have the WoW, Wildstar, or FFXIV raiding scene, nor will it have a serious PvP scene as a result of trying to straddle the middle line with both formats and dedicate as few resources and developers as possible to balancing the kitten game more than once every 4-6 months.

Not that it matters because the “big” patches they usually excuse the “quarterly” (more like half a year) wait for end up being mostly bug fixes/icon text polish with a few anemic tweaks to garbage traits/utilities.

Fay.2357:

Anyone remember the guangmath from before the spec patch that was vomiting crazy about how mesmer condie dps with pistol phantasms was going to be incredibly broken?

Hey, I resemble that comment.

Not that I ever suggested it would be broken.
And we never got to see that version of DD anyway…

Edit: and I guess I came in after the spec patch anyway, checking my posting history.

Zenith.7301:

You remove alacrity as it currently is from mesmers, and they’ll be dropped from raids.

Mesmer is bar none the lowest DPS class ingame, if it can’t have the strongest utility there’s no point to having one.

While I think removing alacrity from chronos is stupid, this isn’t true. They would be still taken for the quickness they can give it.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

They would be still taken for the quickness they can give it.

At least last time I checked this wasn’t true because the DPS gain is lower than just getting a different class instead. It’s Alacrity + Quickness that is better than having someone else.

There’s an additional problem: Our Quickness is redundant compared to what Guardians push out.

You would need 2 guardians with 100% boon duration to achieve 83% quickness on 1 party (5ppl only). Make it to 10 (4 guardians) and its wasted party potencial.
The raid would look something like
4 guards
2 revs
4 dmg (doesnt matter if condi zerker/engie/necro or ele)

I personally dont think that it would be better than taking just 1 chrono that can tank and give perma (100%) quickness to the entire raid himself.

Alacrity is ok, nothing game breaking in my opinion. It makes the specialization viable in any kind of gameplay (pve/pvp).
All the available content is also doable without the chrono with the same effectiveness, so I dont think anybody should feel any concerns about anything chrono can bring onto the table.

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

blakdoxa.7520:

I don’t giving alacrity to the mesmer was the best idea either.
There ARE going to be more elite specs in the future and just HOW will Anet even begin to make another spec on par with chronomancer?
As some others mentions alacrity makes chronomancer one of the best supports, not to mention their ability to fulfill a tank role due to wells and continuum shift.
There’s only two possibilities I can think of: either chronomancer gets nerfed to the ground to make the upcoming spec more appealing (i.e. sell dat xpac) OR the new spec is so ridiculously op that chronomancer put on a shelf (i.e. power creep).

Believe me when I say there are going to be more nerfs.

Or the next elite brings mesmer damage on par with other classes. It’s not like raids are composed entirely of chronos.

I don’t want an elite spec to fix the problems with core mesmer. Elite specs should never fix massive glaring unintended weaknesses like huge dps ramp up times and a general lack of dps.

Though I must admit I find it hilarious when someone (not anyone in this thread) says mesmer dps is too high and should be nerfed.

Anyone remember the guangmath from before the spec patch that was vomiting crazy about how mesmer condie dps with pistol phantasms was going to be incredibly broken?

Yeah that was hilarious, even more so when you realise it was only ever going to be on one target while eles, guards, wars, thieves, engy, rangers and now revs are cleaving 3-5 targets with their meta weapons.

Carighan.6758:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

They would be still taken for the quickness they can give it.

At least last time I checked this wasn’t true because the DPS gain is lower than just getting a different class instead. It’s Alacrity + Quickness that is better than having someone else.

There’s an additional problem: Our Quickness is redundant compared to what Guardians push out.

Guards quickness isn’t even close to touching chronos, and while chrono isn’t terribly damaging compared to other classes, don’t just take into account the quickness, take into account quickness AND chrono DPS.

Look in a game like GW2 having no cost to skills only cd something like 40% cdr becomes a big deal (even 10%). Things like venomes and other class only effects do not effect other skills they simply add on to an effect what alacrity dose is make every thing about other ppl classes better to the point that your worst off not to have it.

I suggest you drop it effectiveness or you make it something that only works on wepon skills and NOT utility (something that should have long cd due to how powerful the effects are on most of them.)

I would think a rule of balancing for any game is not to add in something that drops the cd of the very thing that is drooping the cd. Kind of like putting a bag of holding in a bag of holding your simply making an loop that makes the effect stronger becuse you can use that effect.

Jski.6180:

I would think a rule of balancing for any game is not to add in something that drops the cd of the very thing that is drooping the cd. Kind of like putting a bag of holding in a bag of holding your simply making an loop that makes the effect stronger becuse you can use that effect.

And I think a rule of posting on forums is needing to have all posts vetted by someone who knows what they’re talking about, but we can’t all have what we want, can we?

That’s your opinion. Alacrity is in a perfect state and shouldn’t be changed. Mesmers have always been a utility/support class. Please don’t start crying because you have an opinion of something.

Kusa.6438:

That’s your opinion. Alacrity is in a perfect state and shouldn’t be changed. Mesmers have always been a utility/support class. Please don’t start crying because you have an opinion of something.

Also, just be glad that we do have the Chrono line. If it weren’t for the Chrono line, no you would take mesmers into raids what so ever… much like theifs. Just be happy that every raid requires 1 mesmer spot because of Chrono line.

Kusa.6438:

Kusa.6438:

That’s your opinion. Alacrity is in a perfect state and shouldn’t be changed. Mesmers have always been a utility/support class. Please don’t start crying because you have an opinion of something.

Also, just be glad that we do have the Chrono line. If it weren’t for the Chrono line, no you would take mesmers into raids what so ever… much like theifs. Just be happy that every raid requires 1 mesmer spot because of Chrono line.

That alone shows you there is something wrong with the Chrono line and the mez class. A lot of that has to do with the cdr of alacrity simply out classing EVERYTHING mez has on all of its lines.
Most classes have strong attk or stronger def or stronger support though boons and class only effects but alacrity being able to effect every thing even the ability that make alacrity makes it the true end all be all effect in GW2. It even goes as far as effects sieges skills in wvw making it a MUST when trying to take down a door or wall. Its even more of a “must have” in wvw then the old vit/power stacking from wvw rank that they removed.

Jski.6180:

Kusa.6438:

Kusa.6438:

That’s your opinion. Alacrity is in a perfect state and shouldn’t be changed. Mesmers have always been a utility/support class. Please don’t start crying because you have an opinion of something.

Also, just be glad that we do have the Chrono line. If it weren’t for the Chrono line, no you would take mesmers into raids what so ever… much like theifs. Just be happy that every raid requires 1 mesmer spot because of Chrono line.

That alone shows you there is something wrong with the Chrono line and the mez class. A lot of that has to do with the cdr of alacrity simply out classing EVERYTHING mez has on all of its lines.
Most classes have strong attk or stronger def or stronger support though boons and class only effects but alacrity being able to effect every thing even the ability that make alacrity makes it the true end all be all effect in GW2. It even goes as far as effects sieges skills in wvw making it a MUST when trying to take down a door or wall. Its even more of a “must have” in wvw then the old vit/power stacking from wvw rank that they removed.

I’m just going to go out on a limb and assume that all these tears are because you either don’t want to purchase HoT or are just being stubborn about playing a meta build? Those are the only two possible reasons I can see for this thread. Neither of which is a valid reason for any nerf to alacrity.

Its been said before and I’ll say it again…you should be thankful that they gave us alacrity. Without alacrity, we were completely a niche class…barely accepted in any instanced content. When were were tolerated…we were relegated to reflect/veil/portal bots. Any content that did not have need for those things…ended up being content we struggled to get to participate in. Now we are no longer niche. We have something that is a valuable contribution to groups and here people are letting a flood of tears loose on the forums.

I see these false/over the top complaints that alacrity makes everything better…but those statements are just false/hyperbole. All alacrity does is decrease cool downs. It doesn’t make a weapon/utility hit harder. It doesn’t affect auto attacks to any noticeable degree if at all. All it does is let you use abilities that have cool downs more frequently. It does not change the nature of the abilities themselves. It does not even provide the same level of benefit for all classes/builds. It has almost no effect on my Herald…as the class is not gated by cool downs..but by energy instead. I’m pretty sure that the situation is very similar for thieves/daredevils. The Chronomancer, themselves, have their weapon/utility cool downs designed with alacrity in mind…which is why it takes alacrity to get the cool downs to a respectable time. I think this just boils down to players being either cheap or mad that their preferred build is not preferred by others. That has nothing to do with anything being wrong with alacrity. That is an issue with the core mesmer class or with the bad build the person is running.

I think there are multiple game mode specific builds for the mesmer class. There are stealth/shatter builds that are better choices for player versus player modes. There is Chrono, which is the undisputed PvE meta. There is even a signet build I used to run in fractals for shared distortion. Players need to stop expecting ANET to force their play style on everyone else and play what is effective/preferred when grouping with others. Its not like you are being asked to re-roll into another class. Its just another trait line in the same class. Its not like there was not a meta build before Chrono. Nothing has changed except which trait lines are meta in which game mode….all this crying is ridiculous. Before…PvE builds meant you needed reflects and portal traited or gtfo…now its pretty much the same for wells/alacrity….and its not so niche anymore. I personally prefer to have a build to play…that’s actually wanted…versus being forced to portal bot everyone. I had actually stopped playing my mesmer before due to portal crying in random groups. I’m unhappy with the PvP based nerf we just got to well of precognition and echo/deja…but overall I love where the mesmer is now in PvE.

I wouldn’t mind if they finally did add an elite spec with a drastic change to the way illusions work though. A spec that makes illusions deal no damage and be purely there for their support functions. A spec where the mesmer weapon skills actually deal all the damage. My biggest complaint about mesmers are their low direct sustained damage ouput versus other classes. I can see why they would not make that part of one of the core trait lines…as that would overpower shatters and be too much when factoring in the Chrono line.

Jski.6180:

Kusa.6438:

Kusa.6438:

That’s your opinion. Alacrity is in a perfect state and shouldn’t be changed. Mesmers have always been a utility/support class. Please don’t start crying because you have an opinion of something.

Also, just be glad that we do have the Chrono line. If it weren’t for the Chrono line, no you would take mesmers into raids what so ever… much like theifs. Just be happy that every raid requires 1 mesmer spot because of Chrono line.

That alone shows you there is something wrong with the Chrono line and the mez class. A lot of that has to do with the cdr of alacrity simply out classing EVERYTHING mez has on all of its lines.
Most classes have strong attk or stronger def or stronger support though boons and class only effects but alacrity being able to effect every thing even the ability that make alacrity makes it the true end all be all effect in GW2. It even goes as far as effects sieges skills in wvw making it a MUST when trying to take down a door or wall. Its even more of a “must have” in wvw then the old vit/power stacking from wvw rank that they removed.

Hold up. Stop… You have no clue what you’re talking about.
As build variety goes, mesmers have the most diversity right now in the game.

Let’s start in PvE. Mesmers have two solid raid builds. Where most classes only have one, and some literally have none (thieves). Mesmers can go power DPS and tank.

PvP. Mesmers have 3 solid builds. Chrono Bunker (which is the strongest), power shatter, or condi shatter.

Not to mention the huge variety of builds used in fractals. Mesmers by far utilize all their trait lines more than any other class.

Just because some content doesn’t provide for the play type you like, doesn’t mean build variety isn’t there.