Guild Wars 2

I love the intent behind the changes to the skills system, and for a large part, we now have a lot more choice and viability.

However, the builds largely seem to come down to two choices still: Phantasm or Shatter.

When it comes to shatter builds, it seems as though you simply MUST have Deceptive Evasion.

Given all this choice, why does it seem to come down to DE or no shatter. Am I still stuck in the old build-system? I just don’t seem to be an effective shatterer without DE.

Your input as always, is much appreciated.

Thanks

Look at your whole toolkit.

Direct damage from attacks
Direct damage from Mind Wrack
Direct damage from interrupts via Power Block
Direct damage from phantasms
Condition damage from attacks
Condition damage from clones
Condition damage from phantasms (mostly Pistol and Torch)
Survival through stealth
CC
Sustain through condition clearing and healing
Damage mitigation through blinds, reflects, or evade frames

You can combine several of these in one build. The biggest obstacle is that direct damage and condition damage require different gear.

Shattering as much as you can requires DE. But now you’re freer to shatter some because you’ve got the amazing Illusionary Persona trait “baked in” to your shatters. So you can, e.g, start out a fight with lockdown and phantasm damage and then finish up with a Mirror Blade greatsword shatter.

Hmm, so you’re suggesting that we now have a more viable option of combining the benefits from illusions with timely shatters?

More or less. DE is still really, really good for shattering.

But, like, in PvP, any phant build can also shatter. (In PvE, you have the problem of really inflated boss hp making sustained DPS more important than burst, so shattering is less desirable.)

I like DE, but with the current state of mesmer I don’t feel it’s as mandatory as before for a shatter build. I can pick harmonious mantra without feeling like a core class mechanic is missing and I like that.
It has the worth and feel of a GM and is definitely in a good place, but there are other viable choice in the same line and even in different one. I don’t feel impaired without the trait and can still pump out enough clônes while not wasting dodges for the production. It’s different.

Doni.6095:

Hmm, so you’re suggesting that we now have a more viable option of combining the benefits from illusions with timely shatters?

Don’t underestimate the power of a 3 clone shatter. On every weaponset you have the ability to spawn a clone and a phantasm. If you’re in melee range and shatter that’s considerable damage. Powerblock interrupt + whatever for more damage. You can also proc the 4th clone off decoy, or the Defender from the Illusions line on evade. Or swap sets to produce more clones. Sw/sw gets you the second clone from on block (sw 4), so that’s a full 4 clone shatter on one set.

Anyway, I’ve not run DE sine before November last year. I’m finding it waaay easier to put togeather strong shatter bursts in amongst my phant loadouts, and interrupt playstyle.

Yeah with IP baseline, so many mesmer builds open up that don’t require DE to be effective. Shatter is pretty much the playstyle now no matter what you’re playing (in PvP anyway). Any destroyed illusion is pretty much a wasted one now, especially phantasms – assuming you let them perform their first attack.

I’d recommend playing around with different specs that don’t have DE to get a feel for it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

You can also proc the 4th clone off decoy, or the Defender from the Inspiration line on evade or block

Fixed that for ya

skcamow.3527:

Ross Biddle.2367:

You can also proc the 4th clone off decoy, or the Defender from the Inspiration line on evade or block

Fixed that for ya

It’ll probably proc more often on evade than block… We have access to two bloc out of all of our weapon set and even then, only one is actually used as a block because of the torment it gives

Pepsi.8907:

It’ll probably proc more often on evade than block… We have access to two bloc out of all of our weapon set and even then, only one is actually used as a block because of the torment it gives

You’re forgetting about all that sweet, sweet Aegis, though.

ASP.8093:

Pepsi.8907:

It’ll probably proc more often on evade than block… We have access to two bloc out of all of our weapon set and even then, only one is actually used as a block because of the torment it gives

You’re forgetting about all that sweet, sweet Aegis, though.

Ahah you’re so right x) how could I dare forget about aegis

The mantra shatter build which is honestly more “meta” on NA right now than traditional shatter uses harmonious mantras instead of DE, so check it out.

I find it ironic that the mesmer meta has evolved past dodge clones at long sweet last.

Pre 23rd July, Shatter was defined by Illusionary Persona. If you didn’t take Illusionary Persona you weren’t playing Shatter. You were playing MTD or CI or some other variant. MTD was sometimes called MTD shatter to distinguish it from condi clone death builds but these no longer exist.

Technically, Shatter as a distinct build no longer exists. Shatter is no longer defined by the presence or absence of 1 grandmaster trait. It is now a true profession mechanic that you can use (or not use) in any build. It is no longer conditional on the presence and position of an AI. Shattering illusions is now a question of necessity, no matter what build you run.

When it comes to shatter builds, it seems as though you simply MUST have Deceptive Evasion.

This was perhaps true in the old trait system, particularly for non (IP) shatter builds because you had no reliable access to your profession mechanic. With IP it didn’t matter if you had no clones out because you always count as a clone for the purpose of enabling shatter. If you needed invulnerability, you smashed F4 and no matter what, you will get a guaranteed 1 second of invuln. Doesn’t matter if all your illusions are cleaved out, what weapon set you are in or if you are stunned or knocked down.

Without IP, you needed a clone or phantasm to be alive when you hit F4, otherwise it would go on a 4 second cooldown with no effect. Opportunistic cleave could really screw you out of shatters when you need them the most.

Without DE, your clone production was bound by weapon skill cooldowns and being able to weapon swap in combat to a set with illusion summoning skills off cooldown. Having IP baseline automatically makes DE less mandatory but by not taking DE you lose a source of clone production that is independent of weapon and utility cooldowns. You still pay a heavy price for dropping it but there are other options now like Harmonious Mantras which are, certainly playable.

Playing a HM build requires you to be very deliberate with your clone production – when you create clones and where you create them. Not having to dodge for clones also changes the way you play and takes getting used to. You can now use dodges exclusively for damage avoidance.