Guild Wars 2

No ambush skill should have a cast time longer than 3/4 second. End of story. These are supposed to be the core of Mirage’s DPS potential, yet by outlasting our evade, they are pretty easy to interrupt by any player who knows what they are doing.

OriOri.8724:

These are supposed to be the core of Mirage’s DPS potential

Where did you hear this?

Look at the rest of mirage’s skills. Our shatters didn’t get buffed, our utility skills and Axe skills deal pathetic damage. Its obvious that the damage issupposed to come from ambush skills, because there is no other place for it to come from.

The only worthwhile ambush currently imo is Sceptre’s. While it has a long cast time I think it’s justified by the strength of the attack. Other Ambushes are just a little stronger than the regular autos…

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

OriOri.8724:

Look at the rest of mirage’s skills. Our shatters didn’t get buffed, our utility skills and Axe skills deal pathetic damage. Its obvious that the damage issupposed to come from ambush skills, because there is no other place for it to come from.

If you are talk about dps this is probabily pve talk. And in pve mirage will bring an upgrade to base mesmer in terms of dps.
150 c dmg on vigor
A new utility thats not a dead slot
And Axe seems fine
20% c durarion

I dunno why everybody is crying for dmg on ambush skills. Not like they are easly accessed to make them a big dps increase even if they were backstab lvl of dmg.. And plus, clones dont dmg….
For me ambush skills should be all in the line of sword one. Utility. Like daze leap or etc utility. Pure dmg is boring and wont be a big deal.

Now if you mean power dmg, going mirage is a dps loss for pve. Our dmg mods are spread on domi duel and illu. Mirages seems to be a condi utility spec. In pvp i can see the utility for power shatter, but in pve its an irrelevant utility, so nothing to offer here. And thats fine. Chrono didnt offer a dps upgrade to mesmer but a support instead, and chrono is fine.
Maybe next spec will be a power oriented spec. Maybe with interrupts amd such… Mesmer have potential there…

FJSAMA.2867:

OriOri.8724:

Look at the rest of mirage’s skills. Our shatters didn’t get buffed, our utility skills and Axe skills deal pathetic damage. Its obvious that the damage issupposed to come from ambush skills, because there is no other place for it to come from.

If you are talk about dps this is probabily pve talk. And in pve mirage will bring an upgrade to base mesmer in terms of dps.
150 c dmg on vigor
A new utility thats not a dead slot
And Axe seems fine
20% c durarion

I dunno why everybody is crying for dmg on ambush skills. Not like they are easly accessed to make them a big dps increase even if they were backstab lvl of dmg.. And plus, clones dont dmg….
For me ambush skills should be all in the line of sword one. Utility. Like daze leap or etc utility. Pure dmg is boring and wont be a big deal.

Now if you mean power dmg, going mirage is a dps loss for pve. Our dmg mods are spread on domi duel and illu. Mirages seems to be a condi utility spec. In pvp i can see the utility for power shatter, but in pve its an irrelevant utility, so nothing to offer here. And thats fine. Chrono didnt offer a dps upgrade to mesmer but a support instead, and chrono is fine.
Maybe next spec will be a power oriented spec. Maybe with interrupts amd such… Mesmer have potential there…

I won’t wait for another 2 years for that… I mean look at Daredevil, a spec that focuses on dodging and it functions well for both condi and power. Should have been the same with Mirage, focusing on deceiving the enemy and dodging which should also work for both. :/

I think people are forgetting the ambush skills can be traited to activate on illusions, so gs is 470×3×4 with all active illusions +power and crit modifiers.

AsheR.1687:

I think people are forgetting the ambush skills can be traited to activate on illusions, so gs is 470×3×4 with all active illusions +power and crit modifiers.

i doubt clone will do ambush with our power , and phant seems no ambush attack

musu.9205:

AsheR.1687:

I think people are forgetting the ambush skills can be traited to activate on illusions, so gs is 470×3×4 with all active illusions +power and crit modifiers.

i doubt clone will do ambush with our power , and phant seems no ambush attack

They definitely do dmg with the scepter and staff which you can see in streams. It’s really op in the video so probably won’t last. They might be lower but it is definitely much higher than the standard.

Scpeter does dmg with condi application… and that condi is no big deal… Phantasms will be better and the other 2 options in Gm traits are better for pvp and pve

Won’t be the first time Robert Gee designs mesmer with only pvp in mind.

We had to throw a tantrum in the forums about DejaVu and shield phantasms in order for him to make changes, on top of the interrupt traits he littered the class with.

He’s a PvP dev despite calling himself class balance dev. PvP will always come first for him.

It’s the reason he didn’t buff necromance axe auto despite it being pathetic or mesmer greatsword/sword autos, because muh PvP.

Didn’t notice it was just condi, well that’s disappointing. Should have known better.

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

Yeah definitely.

I can only think they must be struggling with a way to make all our shatter traits work if changing our F1-F4 skills.

Zenith.7301:

Won’t be the first time Robert Gee designs mesmer with only pvp in mind.

We had to throw a tantrum in the forums about DejaVu and shield phantasms in order for him to make changes, on top of the interrupt traits he littered the class with.

He’s a PvP dev despite calling himself class balance dev. PvP will always come first for him.

It’s the reason he didn’t buff necromance axe auto despite it being pathetic or mesmer greatsword/sword autos, because muh PvP.

well tbh in 5 years , most of time , mes wasn’t that great in pvp despite being called op .same goes for necro axe .and even mes was in meta , most of time its due to our portal .if his aim is pvp he simply failed doing so .

anet balance team just likes to throw random number until it works. they did this with tempest overload , and look at weave traits and skills , they are pretty much doing that same thing again , power creep numbers until pve ele happy .

btw mirage axe in most case is worse than scepter(worse dmg , worse ambush cast time , worse ambush skill no defensive skills) , only skill 3 make it worth something .

Axe does have cleave whereas Scepter is single target apart from Confusing Images.

Also with scepter bolts all being projectiles, I’m wondering if Evasive Mirror and a simple dodge will counter scepter ambush really hard.

Curunen.8729:

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

Yeah definitely.

I can only think they must be struggling with a way to make all our shatter traits work if changing our F1-F4 skills.

but after 2 expac mes got least new abilities among all classes , that does make me worried and sad. DD actually got 3 dodge to pick up, mirage is just one type lol given how awful gs ambush is , and sword ambush is not useful in pve .

new shatter could be something like souldbeast+ kit
instead of direct shatter , now all f skills must be active before summoning illusion ,once you active certain f skill , the illusion summoned will link to you , you use that f skill again, you consume those illusion to gain access to new weapon skills temporarily. the period is fixed but the power of those new weapon skills will be depending on how many illusion you consume .
f1 = power dps skills f2 condi f 3 cc + movement f4 defensive skills +self portal

Curunen.8729:

Axe does have cleave whereas Scepter is single target apart from Confusing Images.

Also with scepter bolts all being projectiles, I’m wondering if Evasive Mirror and a simple dodge will counter scepter ambush really hard.

forgot to say im meant that in pve .

in pvp axe 2 and axe 3 are more useful .

that said , anet could make False Oasis with a water field so we can use those leaps .chaos armor doesnt seem to be that great on mirage. we have better ways to apply weakness and regen with mirage traits .

Water field for False Oasis would be pretty cool actually.

FJSAMA.2867:

I dunno why everybody is crying for dmg on ambush skills.

The elite spec mechanic is a worse dodge and they are trying to sell it on the idea that its worth it because you get ambush attacks. With the exception of scepter and possibly staff for some aoe condi the ambush attacks are worse then our auto attacks, which are already weak to begin with.

WTF is the point of the mechanic?

FJSAMA.2867:

Pure dmg is boring and wont be a big deal.

You have played the game right?

FJSAMA.2867:

Maybe next spec will be a power oriented spec.

Oh good after 7 years the main portion of the game that most people play might not be a giant pain in the ass for Mesmers to do, how about they just give us a good spec now?

FJSAMA.2867:

interrupts

You have played the game right?

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

Yeah definitely.

I can only think they must be struggling with a way to make all our shatter traits work if changing our F1-F4 skills.

but after 2 expac mes got least new abilities among all classes , that does make me worried and sad. DD actually got 3 dodge to pick up, mirage is just one type lol given how awful gs ambush is , and sword ambush is not useful in pve .

new shatter could be something like souldbeast+ kit
instead of direct shatter , now all f skills must be active before summoning illusion ,once you active certain f skill , the illusion summoned will link to you , you use that f skill again, you consume those illusion to gain access to new weapon skills temporarily. the period is fixed but the power of those new weapon skills will be depending on how many illusion you consume .
f1 = power dps skills f2 condi f 3 cc + movement f4 defensive skills +self portal

I like the idea of the next spec being mesmer version of ranger (assuming Chrono is “necro” and Mirage is “thief” going by wells and deceptions as well as themes).

And yeah replacing shatters with direct control of illusions from F1 through F4 (or absorbing like soulbeast does). Difficulty is how would shatter traits proc, although I’m sure a solution can be created.

Curunen.8729:

And yeah replacing shatters with direct control of illusions from F1 through F4 (or absorbing like soulbeast does). Difficulty is how would shatter traits proc, although I’m sure a solution can be created.

On skill use like they do now, depending waht they go with the only one that will really give them trouble is Master of Fragmentation and even that will be easy to work around.

AsheR.1687:

I think people are forgetting the ambush skills can be traited to activate on illusions, so gs is 470×3×4 with all active illusions +power and crit modifiers.

So? Look at the weapon skills for some of the other PoF specs. They are doing that level of damage by themselves, with no buildup needed (yet we have to get 3 clones up, which while easy enough by using both a utility slot and a weapon skill is still a hoop other classes don’t have to go through), and then can also sometimes deal even more damage/have bonus effects for meeting certain conditions. Just because a 3 clone ambush attack can be on par with a regular attack from other specs (seriously, why are so many people ok with this?) doesn’t make it balanced. For that buildup it should be dealing more damage.

FJSAMA.2867:

OriOri.8724:

Look at the rest of mirage’s skills. Our shatters didn’t get buffed, our utility skills and Axe skills deal pathetic damage. Its obvious that the damage issupposed to come from ambush skills, because there is no other place for it to come from.

If you are talk about dps this is probabily pve talk. And in pve mirage will bring an upgrade to base mesmer in terms of dps.
150 c dmg on vigor
A new utility thats not a dead slot
And Axe seems fine
20% c durarion

I dunno why everybody is crying for dmg on ambush skills. Not like they are easly accessed to make them a big dps increase even if they were backstab lvl of dmg.. And plus, clones dont dmg….
For me ambush skills should be all in the line of sword one. Utility. Like daze leap or etc utility. Pure dmg is boring and wont be a big deal.

Now if you mean power dmg, going mirage is a dps loss for pve. Our dmg mods are spread on domi duel and illu. Mirages seems to be a condi utility spec. In pvp i can see the utility for power shatter, but in pve its an irrelevant utility, so nothing to offer here. And thats fine. Chrono didnt offer a dps upgrade to mesmer but a support instead, and chrono is fine.
Maybe next spec will be a power oriented spec. Maybe with interrupts amd such… Mesmer have potential there…

Mesmer has always had low DPS, why do you want to keep it low? Mirage, especially the mirage cloak mechanic and ambush skills, are a great way to give mesmers that higher damage. But you are wrong abotu several things here:

• Mirage will have plentiful access to mirage cloak. I don’t know why you think it will be scarce. On dodge, plus plenty of vigor. Plus our heal skill and 2 utilities drop mirage mirrors, on top of a 3rd utility just flat out giving us mirage cloak. Its not going to be hard to come by.

• We have already seen with the scepter ambush attack that its weaker on clones, so its safe to assume that the other ones will be weaker as well. Which means that the sword and GS ambush attacks will probably not be dealing even auto attack levels of damage when used by clones.

I’m pretty disappointed with GS and sword ambushes. I was hoping out that they would somehow be decent enough to make pve power ok but that doesn’t seem to be the case. They might be interesting in pvp but I kinda doubt that since there is so much random aoe clears but I guess there is always tomorrow to see if it works out.

I agree with everyone else that we should have received completely different F abilities. The core selling point of Mirage is Ambush (our first class trait), which requires our clones to stay up, yet we have shatters which destroy these clones. Though I guess this goes into the longer problem of mesmer for the past couple of years where there is this weird class combination between burst (shatter) and sustained dps (phantasms). It is like our class design is trying to fit both but by being jack of all trades we aren’t really excelling in either. (If you bring up recent PvE raid benchmark increases, notice how mesmers are still at the lower end only higher than d/d thief and condi thief… BARELY. These benchmarks don’t include your phantasms also getting owned by boss raid aoes which will drop your dps.)

Honestly, I was hoping with Mirage that mesmer would clearly just be sustain or burst instead of this weird hodgepodge of both, especially if ambushes only work with clones (the most easily destroyed illusion).

FJSAMA.2867:

And thats fine. Chrono didnt offer a dps upgrade to mesmer but a support instead, and chrono is fine.

For PVE,
My only problem with this is, following your logic, why are we getting a SECOND support elite specialization? How does this change mesmer play style to be unique? There are condition traits all over the place so why aren’t we a condi dps specialization and not a second support specialization.

For PVP,
Sure extra blinks are nice (even though they aren’t stun breaks) but how do the traits have synergy to keep or even sustain your clones that’ll be destroyed instantly by random aoes? If they don’t well then you still have phantasms, cool but what is the point of even being mirage if you can’t even use ambushes (assuming that ambush doesn’t work with phantasms but I guess we’ll see tomorrow). Does having extra blinks compensate for the lack of continuum split and/or OP utility of shield block?

Well GS ambush visually looks impressive for sure.

I’m going to have to rewatch that because I wasn’t sure where all that vuln was coming from.

Curunen.8729:

Well GS ambush visually looks impressive for sure.

I’m going to have to rewatch that because I wasn’t sure where all that vuln was coming from.

I just made a thingy regarding that and noticed they had exposure sigils. but that’s a lot of vuln, and I don’t think it would trigger on illusions, also not 100% sure if that was after a swap. If it does natively stack some vuln that’d at least be better than flat 1.2.
(and yeah it looks realllly cool)

Also confirmed no ambush attacks on phantasms. (which we kinda already figured right?)

Sword ambush + Sigil of Absorption (WvW or PvP) or Sigil of Draining (for spike damage) … not to mention up to 4 stacks of Stability lost too … and I’m not counting all the traits that synergize with interrupts. Interrupt builds just got a whole lot more powerful.

GS ambush is basically a let’s-tag-everything move which is great for a whole different reason (PvE or WvW zerg). The problem here is just the cast time needs to be shortened but maybe that’s the intention of balancing since this seems like a huge possible power alpha spike if 3 illusions are out.

Artaz.3819:

Sword ambush + Sigil of Absorption (WvW or PvP) or Sigil of Draining (for spike damage) … not to mention up to 4 stacks of Stability lost too … and I’m not counting all the traits that synergize with interrupts. Interrupt builds just got a whole lot more powerful.

GS ambush is basically a let’s-tag-everything move which is great for a whole different reason (PvE or WvW zerg). The problem here is just the cast time needs to be shortened but maybe that’s the intention of balancing since this seems like a huge possible power alpha spike if 3 illusions are out.

How do you think of removing 4 stacks of stability using that?

Removing stability has 0.75s internal cooldown.

Daishi.6027:

Also confirmed no ambush attacks on phantasms. (which we kinda already figured right?)

I think people were holding out because the trait said illusion and not clone. They seemed to go into a lot of effort to be specific with other traits so maybe they just missed the tooltip on this one.

SloRules.3560:

Artaz.3819:

Sword ambush + Sigil of Absorption (WvW or PvP) or Sigil of Draining (for spike damage) … not to mention up to 4 stacks of Stability lost too … and I’m not counting all the traits that synergize with interrupts. Interrupt builds just got a whole lot more powerful.

GS ambush is basically a let’s-tag-everything move which is great for a whole different reason (PvE or WvW zerg). The problem here is just the cast time needs to be shortened but maybe that’s the intention of balancing since this seems like a huge possible power alpha spike if 3 illusions are out.

How do you think of removing 4 stacks of stability using that?

Removing stability has 0.75s internal cooldown.

Oops, living in 2015 still

I’d like to throw in some love for Chaos Vortex
Compared to Ether Barrage chaos vortex has the exact same base condition damage values.
One has 4 stacks with 5s each and one has 5 stacks with 4s each.
But keep in mind that Chaos Vortex from clones applies conditions with 100% duration while Ether Barrage only applies 50% of the duration if used by clones.

Ether Barrage is single target and can proc a lot of bleeds from sharper images on this single target while Chaos Vortex is a AoE skill that also buffs your allies.

I think both skills are good in specific situations.

Me Games Ma.8426:

I’d like to throw in some love for Chaos Vortex
Compared to Ether Barrage chaos vortex has the exact same base condition damage values.
One has 4 stacks with 5s each and one has 5 stacks with 4s each.
But keep in mind that Chaos Vortex from clones applies conditions with 100% duration while Ether Barrage only applies 50% of the duration if used by clones.

Ether Barrage is single target and can proc a lot of bleeds from sharper images on this single target while Chaos Vortex is a AoE skill that also buffs your allies.

I think both skills are good in specific situations.

Chaos vortex does look sexy and I’m going to enjoy using it.

Daishi.6027:

Also confirmed no ambush attacks on phantasms. (which we kinda already figured right?)

This was confirmed? Where?

@Me Games Ma – Yea, there isn’t any real argument that those are the best two ambush attacks lol I happen to like them pretty well as is. Its the other ones, sword and GS, that are the problem. They are pathetically weak.

But we still have the problem that they have a longer cast time than the duration of evade we get with mirage cloak. This means that you could burst down scepter clones before they even finish ether barrage, due to the cast being twice as long as the duration of a dodge.

Looking at this again, mirage mirrors will apply 1 second of mirage cloak versus 3/4 sec from dodging. So, maximum all cast times should be 1 second imo. And this is mostly because so much of that damage is still tied up in being able to get off multiple ambush attacks at once via clones, so if they can be burst down before even finishing the cast, it defeats the purpose.

Hey guys, so just finished watching the live stream playback regarding the elites, mainly for Mirage and I must say – everyone else has very flashy and far more interesting elites than what we are getting. I took a few action shots for those who don’t want to check out the video and for those who do want to check out a bit of the gameplay, link is provided: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhBf1Q6gTnY

MIRAGE commentary starts @ 57:47

False Oasis: http://imgur.com/ScTPq87 http://imgur.com/OFmmMsW
Sand Through Glass: http://imgur.com/mMS0y0a http://imgur.com/CVjGrRH
Jaunt: (which will definitely be my go to elite. I love the 3 charges as well!) http://imgur.com/NGqB4j0 http://imgur.com/prBZmer

The other utilities I didn’t really bother since they were very fast but they are meh at best. I was considering in grabbing atleast one of them, but now I think i’ll just stick to my decoy/mirror images/ blink.

Split Surge: http://imgur.com/hED03Sv Is definitely meant for large crowds (WvW blobs) but damage is pretty meh but i’m assuming if spec’d and geared correctly it might be a bit good? This would be great with sigils that proc on crit/hit.

and Mirage Thrust, I literally replayed the video numerous times and I just can’t wrap my mind around how bad it is. It literally is just a lunge and the daze effect was so fast that even with the amount of clones up was barely noticeable.

But again, will try everything out tomorrow and give a proper feedback

One thing that struck me during the stream was the intensity of the visual effects – especially for something like Jaunt (it’s far to large and bright). I don’t want to go blind with all the crazy visual effects of using some of these skills! xD

Curunen.8729:

One thing that struck me during the stream was the intensity of the visual effects – especially for something like Jaunt (it’s far to large and bright). I don’t want to go blind with all the crazy visual effects of using some of these skills! xD

I loved Jaunts effects! But I understand how you feel. The effects did seem a bit big so I’m sure they’ll reduce it a bit but here’s hoping they don’t go overkill like they did to auras. I miss my circiular chaos armour

Tseison.4659:

Curunen.8729:

One thing that struck me during the stream was the intensity of the visual effects – especially for something like Jaunt (it’s far to large and bright). I don’t want to go blind with all the crazy visual effects of using some of these skills! xD

I loved Jaunts effects! But I understand how you feel. The effects did seem a bit big so I’m sure they’ll reduce it a bit but here’s hoping they don’t go overkill like they did to auras. I miss my circiular chaos armour

Oh yeah I agree the purple egg isn’t my cup of tea either!

The flash of Jaunt looked a bit too much for me to feel comfortable with – especially as a spammable skill with low cooldown. The other one was axe 3 and illusionary ambush – very cool but a bit… large?

Maybe I’m just so used to asura it’s weird to see what the visual effects look like on a human character. I’ll look forward to release and seeing how it applies to my asura.

Edit – sorry I saw you deleted your post so thought it best if I delete the quote.

The sad thing is that after this weekend I might not want to play the game at all until release! Other than maybe completing Astralaria.

I think the reason why they’re underwhelming is that they are all balanced around your clones casting them as well. Although it is weird that both Illusionary Ambush and Infinite Horizon refer to all Illusions and not just Clones. I feel like it would be better if your Clones innately got Mirage Cloak when you did and then those two things would allow your Phantasms to get it, as well.

Of course, balancing around Clones means we’re yet again held back by our Illusions.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot to mention:
GS Ambush is weaker than an auto attack at max range although it seeks side targets instead of line piercing.
Sword Ambush is weaker than an auto attack if you run Power (in the video I don’t know his gear, because it did more than an auto attack).
Spear Ambush hits for about as hard as the first auto attack in chain over 1.25s, although it applies 8 vulnerability. (? woo)
Scepter Ambush with all Clones will do about as much as a Scepter 3 on Power Builds.

Lastly: Axe is probably the camp weapon in Mirage because of Mirrored Axes sending out “mini ambushes”(?) AFAIK this sends out 1 axe instead of the 2 from ambush.

This is a link to all ambushes with ~3300 Power to see the scaling.
Note: Spear should state
Damage(7x): 630
Final Strike Damage: 179

Overall, I think they’re too slow and balanced around ideas instead of applications. The only “good” ones are Axe, Scepter, and Staff buuuuut…

Axe is only good when traited because it releases tons of mini axes, paired with having effectively 3 skills instead of 2 (assuming auto doesn’t spawn mini ambushes).

Scepter’s half duration on clones makes it really awkward.

Staff has a 5 target limit which makes it not useful for boon sharing as it will be unreliable (if it was 5 enemy 5 allies, that would be nice and it wouldn’t really be broken since you’d need to ambush 2x every 10 seconds with 3 clones to ensure 24 might… while camping staff).

Esplen.3940:

I think the reason why they’re underwhelming is that they are all balanced around your clones casting them as well. Although it is weird that both Illusionary Ambush and Infinite Horizon refer to all Illusions and not just Clones. I feel like it would be better if your Clones innately got Mirage Cloak when you did and then those two things would allow your Phantasms to get it, as well.

Of course, balancing around Clones means we’re yet again held back by our Illusions.

eh… this just means Mirage builds in PvE will only be pigeonholed into being used as Condi DPS. Only one build… unlike other Elites like Tempest, Daredevil, Dragon Hunter, Berserker that allows multiply builds in PvE. Mirage sucks now…

Oh I definitely agree that it sucks right now. Especially because a lot of the Power traits that got changed in the last balance patch feel like they’re missing that last line to make them complete. Almost like an elite spec could help them out.

The weapons don’t help either because the ambushes are pretty trash overall. I’m probably going to be running Mirage regardless, but I’d like to see power get something instead of it being an almost entirely pvp/wvw line with some pve thrown in at the last minute.

Guys… Yes i think mesmer dmg is low in pve . Yes i feel some ambush skills are underwelming, yes im sad mirage is a condi spec i rather prefer power, BUT:

You guys wanted to ambushes to solve mesmer low power dps. Then you mention GS, then you mention clone ambushes… It makes 0 sense
Gs its not the dps wep, granted, clones dont deal power dmg, phantasms have no ambushes, and i dont think spam ambush will be so good to make scepter clones to out dps pistol phantasms in a condi spec. So infinite Horizon seems also underwhelming for condi And totally useless for power. Our power dmg is on sword phantasms not clones.

But I can see a PvE mirage spec. Take current condi mes spec, drop chaos for mirage. You lose nothing, you only gain.
A potential good condi wep to use on swap with scepter
150 c dmg on vigor
Self ambush on scepter or axe
20% c duration (more than what chaos offers)
A condi dmg utility to be used with signets
And all the rest that condi mes already did in pve.

From the 27k dps on golem it will only go up.

Tldr: if you want fix mesmer power dps dont mention mirage or ambushes and clones. What about moddifiers from traits and sigils runes affecting phantasms? What about giving some kind of splash dmg to sword phantasms? What about giving base mesmer a way to redirect phantasms? What about giving base mesmer meaningfull power dmg utility skills? And F skills in pve?
Those are a problems we have with w.e elite spec we get. Those are the problems that once adressed will fix mesmer power dps

The main disappointment for me was that it seems the mirage mirrors will only last for about 5 seconds.

What’s the point of having them if you can’t really plan around when you want to use them? You’re pretty much forced to instantly pick them up which will in return make you pretty predictable. That coupled with the fact that the ambush attacks themselves are predictable as is, i dont know. Guess we’ll have to see how it turns out.

1:00:06 on the youtube video for reference.

Takashiro.8701:

The main disappointment for me was that it seems the mirage mirrors will only last for about 5 seconds.

What’s the point of having them if you can’t really plan around when you want to use them? You’re pretty much forced to instantly pick them up which will in return make you pretty predictable. That coupled with the fact that the ambush attacks themselves are predictable as is, i dont know. Guess we’ll have to see how it turns out.

1:00:06 on the youtube video for reference.

This is a fair point – going to all the trouble of removing dodge movement in order to blend in with illusions, but ambush and necessity of running towards mirage mirrors within a few seconds of creating them kind of contradicts that a bit.

But yeah lets see how it plays.

Doesnt mirrors shatter when enemy touch them?

FJSAMA.2867:

Guys… Yes i think mesmer dmg is low in pve . Yes i feel some ambush skills are underwelming, yes im sad mirage is a condi spec i rather prefer power, BUT:

You guys wanted to ambushes to solve mesmer low power dps. Then you mention GS, then you mention clone ambushes… It makes 0 sense

Esplen.3940:

I think the reason why they’re underwhelming is that they are all balanced around your clones casting them as well.

Overall, I think they’re too slow and balanced around ideas instead of applications.

Look at the ambushes. They’re all fairly weak by themselves (even the Scepter one). They almost NEED clones to do something meaningful, so instead look at what each weapon is trying to accomplish. And then you get to Power weapons which have really awkward applications.

Additionally, if you take the current condi spec and you slap on Mirage, you can actually lose some condi duration because it’s easy to upkeep 7+ boons if your chrono-sharer is running chaos. Other than that, it’s a straight buff, outside of the utilities almost being locked bar elite. (Keep in mind, the only “flexible” slot is Reflect and that’s used because Condi Mes is a meme build that’s used when you want Reflects and don’t trust your Chronos. The idea that it’s considered “viable” as opposed to Power Mes which has higher DPS is silly, especially since the Power Mes can also bring Reflect without significantly hurting it’s DPS is silly.)

Lastly, your tl;dr brings up points that you didn’t write about, so it seems like you did a little skip and a jump to get there. Those points are definitely still valid, but they aren’t pertinent to the discussion at hand. I’m also not saying that Power Mesmer DPS needs to get fixed, it’s just awkward being given tools that don’t actually fulfill a job.

Tl;dr: My complaint with the ambushes is similar to the Phantasmal Sworsdman giving 8 Might without players given the relevant traits to synergize with it. It’s out of place, and doesn’t have the context to make sense. That’s how Mirage ambushes feel, EVEN the condi ones.

I don’t know why do they even bother making ambushes for Sword and GS if they’re not gonna interact well with Mirage trait line. Seems really kitten to me.