Guild Wars 2

i do see in combination with vamp aura it was a big big problem this traid but that nerf is huge!

10 seconds is ways too long for 532 if you go in healing power you get 776^^
before you could heal each time you heal you heal arround you for 500, beeing proced bei everything you have which heals you.

I have to admit, it is getting difficult to find the positive in the face of the constant kneejerk reaction nerfs. What is the balance team even thinking at this point? Have they even looked at thief and engy? I just don’t understand it at all…

I actually did buy the pimp version of the expansion, but I regret it now. Not because I am not going to play it or some other idle threat, but because I feel like I have preemptively rewarded this lackluster decision-making.

They really should have left the traits alone and just bug-fixed for a month while the new meta settles in and people learn effective counter-play. What is happening now is completely counter-intuitive and entirely lopsided.

I am disappointed. Again.

TyPin.9860:

Thief backstab needs to be in melee range

thieves have a handful of gap closers and teleports on 0 cooldown

TyPin.9860:

Mesmer shatter can be melee to increase damage, but doesn’t need to be. It can come from any direction and a very long range even.

dodging mirror blade from more than 300 range can be done while sleeping and the only combo from stealth that can give a similar damage to backstab is mirror blade + shatter from melee range

TyPin.9860:

Thief can be pushed or pulled during stealth to prevent him from getting to you. Often this results in stealth wearing off (in my experience at least). Mesmer with PU has a good chance the pull will get blocked due to aegis.

most classes aren’t as helpless as mesmer is against a stealthed enemy, pushes and pulls are only one of many counters

TyPin.9860:

Backstab always works in the same patterns. Mesmer burst from stealth has way more possibilities (like dodge baiting via phantasms), which only increase with additional stealth time.

you are burning your cooldowns to bait the dodges, seems fair to me?

TyPin.9860:

Thief gets revealed from Backstab. Mesmer can time shatter just when his stealth wears off, preventing him from being revealed.

thieves can also stun you with that same backstab, blind you istantly after that, teleport away and stealth again

TyPin.9860:

Thief gets revealed from Backstab. Mesmer can time shatter just when his stealth wears off, preventing him from being revealed.

Actually, this only works with Decoy and Mass Invis. If your Torch invisibility ends next to an enemy, the burn will reveal you. Just go to sPvP, hit a golem, use The Prestige, and wait for 3/6 seconds to test this.

To be fair you can use Illusionary Leap just before stealth ends, then swap after, but that’s rather impractical and unless you time it perfectly, gives a lot of time for the target to react.

And you know very well why Thief has reveal, it’s because they have no CDs and that is the only mechanic stopping them going Backstab>CnD>Backstab>CnD.etc. Mesmer stealth has cooldowns so you can’t do that continuously.

Edit: Before someone points out that Initiative is a limiting factor, I mean something like Backstab>CnD>wait for initiative>repeat. Obviously I can’t test if this is possible to sustain indefinitely but you sure can do it several times in a row.

Sunflowers.1729:

Edit: Before someone points out that Initiative is a limiting factor, I mean something like Backstab>CnD>wait for initiative>repeat. Obviously I can’t test if this is possible to sustain indefinitely but you sure can do it several times in a row.

Enough times. Reveal wasn’t always a thing. It was implemented after thieves did just that.

it’s not even a big deal. you do know mesmer is currently broken with msg right now? as with engis. LET THE NERFS COME.

yay for typos dmg*

I’m hearing about multiple additional nerfs. The heal on shatter and a “support combo?”

I am deeply sorry I bought the HoT expansion. I just wanted to have a good time playing my favorite class. This cycle of buff and overnerf just depresses the kitten out of me.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? the aoe heal on self heal trait is now on a 10 second cooldown?

the only trait line that i cared about got nerfed. that had so much potential for a mesmer support build.
it was fun while it lasted.

It was being abused with vampiric aura and on crit heal food.

However I don’t see why they didn’t change it to be a percentage of the heal rather than a flat amount. 20% of a vampiric aura heal is what, 5hp, absolutely pitiful. 20% of the on crit food which has a 2s ICD is about 70, hardly game breaking.

20% of a main heal, well, that’s about 1000 or a bit more. Not bad and we don’t have to deal with ICDs on a support trait.

10s ICD on the Healing Prism is insane … I feel like mesmers are gonna get nerfed to oblivion (it seems they continue to [over]nerf us every time a patch hits ;_;)

@Menaka, Sunflowers and Fay:
I responded here.

TBH I played today few shatter without Dom/Chaos but with Inspiration/illusion/Duelist and dear God ,i wreck ppl same as i made with Dom/Chaos lane. Its just sometime harder to nuke som1 at first glance bcos no stun on daze, but 8s later whey will die any way. Also 3s or 6s of stealth dosnt matter if mesmer wants go for kill, he will go after 3 or 4s not more (keep in mind the more Mesmer w8 then more skills cd/vigor enemy will regen) this 6s is good to leave fight you cannot win, or supprise som1 that didnt saw you coming (same as thief do)

Im now on 99.9% sure that its overal thinkin that mesmer do nothink more than clones, and are on last place in food chain… and thats why ppl fail and QQ on forum. They need stop ignoring fact that Mesmer are in pair with others, but in different way.

Shatter Mesmer is nothink more, or less than Thief Stabing for 16k, Guardian Comboed 3ppl for 16k, or Engi killing ppl with 3 granades. And condi/CI/PB Mesmer is no near Trapper Ranger that kills whole party in ~3s, Ele with Guard stacking 5k burning ticks or Cond thief that stack insine loong bleed/poison/ with tons of torments. OVr that Mesmer still need do more than other profession (faceroll) to have same effects.

So please stop looking at Mesmer as broken class, while Mesmer is in pair with others.

Reminder that these nerfs were given priority over the engineer grenadier bug that is giving you a literal one shot skill on a 30 sec cd.

Levetty.1279:

Reminder that these nerfs were given priority over the engineer grenadier bug that is giving you a literal one shot skill on a 30 sec cd.

Bolded for emphasis.

MailMail.6534:

Levetty.1279:

Reminder that these nerfs were given priority over the engineer grenadier bug that is giving you a literal one shot skill on a 30 sec cd.

Bolded for emphasis.

Everythink is broken, better nerf Irelia.. ops i mean Mesmer.

The 5% to 2% CD reduction to staff skills was pretty stupid. Not everyone uses etherial fields with a staff.

Know what I found suspect? Enginades (Sidenote: have they been unreflectable even before patch? Right now they can’t be reflected, wtf, theyre projectiles) and burn stacks are obviously bugged, yet there’s still nothing addressed towards it, meanwhile we’ve already gotten 4 nerfs. lol?

Yet, we still have “skilled” Mesmers calling for nerfs on forum. I don’t undertand that at all. I think we’re in for another multi year spell of being underpowered.

Maybe soon we’ll see a patch again that doesn’t involve some trait-breaking nerf to Mesmers, but at the moment they really have it in for us. I don’t know where they’re getting their facts, or whom they listen to for these nerfs, but I’m beyond caring. They’re breaking everything they created, and in the end will leave us exactly where we were before this huge overhaul.

Lots of broken, bugged, or useless traits and only the one single build that’s viable…the almighty Power Shatter! Love it or leave the Mesmer profession!

I haven’t been this disappointed with Anet since the last time they had it in for Mesmers, and it took 2 years for us to finally see the light of day, and it took literally 2 days for that light to lose it’s brightness.

Every patch brings bad news for Mesmers, and almost no one else is getting nerfed AT ALL! That alone tells you there is someone in charge who hates Mesmers. I’m not talking about balancing here! These are heavy-handed nerfs with intent to kill off the traits in question.

Also it’s plain that they didn’t invest 1 cent in beta-testing this patch, and that we’re currently beta testing for them. With all the alienating frustrations that come along with beta tests.

The recent nerfs has hit pretty hard in pve. I was using the scepter/sword and staff, yesterday. Torment does very little damage, confusion does very little damage. Conditions, for the mesmer is a lot worse than before the patch. Very discouraging.

I then went to the greatsword. Damage is, again, worse than before the patch. I tried to take on the troll champion in Sparkfly Fen. The greatsword made no impression on the troll. When I used the scepter/sword and staff, it did better, but only slightly. The troll also kept healing itself back to full health. So my weapons were useless against it, although I had no problems staying alive at all. I finally just left.

The only thing that looks too strong at the moment for me is confounding suggestions which provide a bit too many stuns. You don’t even need to interrupt to lock down others.

Even PU nerf or not is debatable since it’s mainly a defensive trait.

Exciton.8942:

The only thing that looks too strong at the moment for me is confounding suggestions which provide a bit too many stuns. You don’t even need to interrupt to lock down others.

Even PU nerf or not is debatable since it’s mainly a defensive trait.

How about:

Confounding Suggestions
When you interrupt a target with a daze, stun it instead.

TyPin.9860:

Exciton.8942:

The only thing that looks too strong at the moment for me is confounding suggestions which provide a bit too many stuns. You don’t even need to interrupt to lock down others.

Even PU nerf or not is debatable since it’s mainly a defensive trait.

How about:

Confounding Suggestions
When you interrupt a target with a daze, stun it instead.

I also thought about that. But doesn’t it make it too similar to CI? Remember CI is GM trait. This one is only an adept.

Windwalker.7421:

Lots of broken, bugged, or useless traits and only the one single build that’s viable…the almighty Power Shatter! Love it or leave the Mesmer profession!

That’s what really gets me about these nerfs. The builds that they’re leaving intact are the ones with the least counterplay. PvP players should rejoice if MtD Mesmers unseated Power Shatter. You can’t cleanse Mind Wrack.

The logic behind the nerfs is completely lacking.

Toxsa.2701:

Anet, any idea why you give Mesmer Perma Stealth in the first place?

100% stealth duration increase + pulsing boons every second is way too much. It is even worse than thief because they can set up a 15k burst right beside you and you can’t see it coming.

Honestly, instead of kittening people up later with all the nerf, how about do some real testing before you release something. Yknow these guys are greedy folks that don’t care about balance a single bit. If you take away something from them after you given them something first, they’d refuse to buy your expansion! Totally bad move!

PU mesmer is fine. Sorry, but stop calling for nerfs of other classes. And I say this as a person who also mains ranger.

pu build are broken atm. i have hight rate of winning just playing from stealth and doing nothing and let my clones/phantasms to their trick

even though pu is for roaming and 1v1 its duration is too long

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Exciton.8942:

TyPin.9860:

Exciton.8942:

The only thing that looks too strong at the moment for me is confounding suggestions which provide a bit too many stuns. You don’t even need to interrupt to lock down others.

Even PU nerf or not is debatable since it’s mainly a defensive trait.

How about:

Confounding Suggestions
When you interrupt a target with a daze, stun it instead.

I also thought about that. But doesn’t it make it too similar to CI? Remember CI is GM trait. This one is only an adept.

What kind of trait it is doesn’t matter any more. The trait “level” (adept, master or grandmaster) only determines which traits compete with each other, nothing more.

messiah.1908:

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Nah, just nerf MtD Torment duration by 50%, and you’d have a powerful yet totally balanced and viable Condition Shatter build again. Lacking the ability to punish your opponent quickly is the key issue with the now lacking Condition options for Mesmers.

Far too much of it relies on blocks, interrupts, or application of Blinds for paltry little meaningless stacks. (Outside of Scepter #2 of course.) Single stack here, 2 stacks there, that simply ain’t kitten. You’re not going to kill anyone in a reasonable amount of time like that.

Much better to go with CS, a guarantied 1.25s stun, Vulnerability + Fragility, and the bonus damage from Mental Anguish. You can put a huge damage spike on someone, literally from stealth without them having any counter play chance before eating a 4-8k MW to the face.

In order to get 4-8k damage out of MtD now…lol…takes how many seconds in a reasonable case?

Reasonable nerf would have been to adjust the potential damage output of MtD, but leave the worst case damage output largely unchanged. That’s what a 50% duration nerf would accomplish, without killing off the entire concept of Condition Shatter in the process.

50% duration reduction would mean 3 seconds base, which I think is too much.

33% reduction would be better – from 6 seconds down to 4 seconds. 4 seconds “feels” right – not too much, but enough to push opponents to cleanse.

Also remembering we’ve lost condi duration form the traitlines so at most in pvp we can get only an extra 15% from nigihtmare runes and then depending on the number of boons with Chaotic Persistence. In wvw with tormenting runes of course you could get crazy duration from 6 seconds base (more than 11 seconds), but with 4 seconds base we will only be pushing 7 or 8 seconds in wvw with full duration bonuses.

Windwalker.7421:

messiah.1908:

bring mtd 2 stacks back and nerf pu 50% instead

Nah, just nerf MtD Torment duration by 50%, and you’d have a powerful yet totally balanced and viable Condition Shatter build again. Lacking the ability to punish your opponent quickly is the key issue with the now lacking Condition options for Mesmers.

.

6 sec torment which is 8 sec with runes and trait will become 4 sec (50% nerf)

with 4 sec and rune which lower condi duration on you by 20% it become 3 sec
in wvw with food it become 1-2 sec

so 50% nerf is too much 33% is more balance

dont forget

warrior and ele got immunity abilities
resistance boon
cleanse abilities which now is bit more frequent

before the patch i could do 15 stacks of torment for 3 sec it did 9k dmg and with confusion and other conditions it did 12 k dmg – almost par with powerblock mesmer burst versus your high armor so condi needs 2 burst combo to down someone while powerblock need 1

As you said in the other thread – if MtD swapped positions with the Scepter trait, it could be left at full duration with 2 stacks because you’d get none of the benefits Ineptitude provides.

MtD would be fine at master level with 2 stacks.

Curunen.8729:

As you said in the other thread – if MtD swapped positions with the Scepter trait, it could be left at full duration with 2 stacks because you’d get none of the benefits Ineptitude provides.

I agree with that. The Scepter trait is bad anyway, even if it did work it’s not a GM worthy trait. It would seem balanced to force a choice between MtD and Ineptitude and then just nerf MtD for 33% duration.

However, my only point was/is it would still be absolutely fine to trade the current 50% DPS nerf of MtD, with another 50% DPS nerf, that being cutting it’s duration by 50%.

The fact is that so many times you’re only getting 1-3 ticks out of it at most, and that’s the worst case that Anet ought to consider in their balancing, because that’s really the most common case against competent opponents. Thus they get their 50%, but without destroying the AoE burst potential of MtD. It would still be a 50% nerf, and yet it would have much much less impact on the Condie Shatter concept then the current nerf.

I agree 33% is actually more balanced than 50%, but we could live happily with 3s Torments on MtD, but you simply break the concept of Condie Shatter by nerfing it back to 2014 with 1 stack. It was and is way too little pressure to be worthwhile shattering Clones over.