Guild Wars 2

UPDATE: Cho’s rage was totes undeserved. Sorry anet. Now, we can just discuss the wording on Mender’s Purity and hopefully have a helpful discussion on how it should be worded.

So, I’m not usually the poster who rages against Anet. In fact, you might call me one of those optimistic fluffy types in relation to gw2. I love the Mesmer class, and I’ll never play another one, because I enjoy it that much even with the many issues with the profession and obvious neglect. I complain once about something they do [or don’t do], and I try not to mention it again as I don’t believe having a toxic relationship with the developers is healthy for the game or my enjoyment.

That being said, I’m really disappointed with a change that I just found out tonight. About 3 or 4 months ago, I was experimenting with a mantra bunker build, and I explicitly remember removing 2 conditions when charging Mantra of Recovery giving me 6 removed for Recovery and 4 removed for Mantra of Resolve. If I totally made this up in my head, please tell me now and delete this thread, but I’m pretty sure I’m not crazy. Now, Mender’s Purity doesn’t cleanse any conditions when you charge your MoRecovery. idk when this was fixed, but I don’t remember being made aware of it. Again, if this was posted somewhere please tell me. I have thick skin and can take any amount of criticism. lol

If Anet wants to call this “a fix”, then so be it. An argument can be made that they never intended for MoRecovery to remove conditions since Mender’s Purity explicitly states “Remove conditions when you heal.” and MoRecovery doesn’t actually heal you. It’s Power Return that heals you. Compare this to centaur runes and other runes that state “_ when you use a heal skill.” Here’s my issue: if you aren’t going to be transparent about changes that effect the viability (lol) of our class, then you have to accept the responsibility of receiving criticism on why skills work some ways but don’t in others based on their wording. i.e. Power Block.

Now, due to the shady way this trait was changed to work with Mantra Heal, I have several questions on on the wording of and how Mender’s Purity actually works:

• Should it remove conditions when we heal via regen, other allies, passive heal on signet of ether, etc? Obviously not what they intended but just play along with me here.
• Should it remove conditions when healing ourselves via Restorative Mantras? i.e. MoRecovery would remove conditions as would MoPain (imagine that!). Why wouldn’t this be the case based on the way Mender’s Purity is worded? This also isn’t what is intended, but if they don’t want it to work this way, they need to change the wording on Mender’s Purity to “remove 2 conditions when you use a heal skill”.

I don’t even use our mantra heal skill for anything and won’t be using it for much of anything in the future. However, I need some transparency here, because it seems like Anet continues to make “fixes” that, in actuality, nerf our class.

But if they changed it to “on heal skill”, it’d also have to work on charging MoR since that’s a heal skill as well, even if it doesn’t heal. If it’s “on heal”, it should definitely work with Restorative Mantras if they’re going to be literal about it now.

MailMail.6534:

If I totally made this up in my head, please tell me now and delete this thread

You totally made this up in your head. MoR has never removed conditions with mender’s purity when you charge it. It’s always been a bit of an odd case that way.

Whether or not it should is a discussion worth having, but it never has.

Whether it used to work the way I describe it or not, they need to be more explicit in how Mender’s Purity works. I’m definitely mincing words here like a pro sous chef, but it’s worth exploring the different ways you can interpret this trait.

• Does it work when we heal ourselves with a heal skill?
• Does it work when when use a heal skill?
• Does it work when we heal ourselves?
• Does it work when we are healed.

Ok, I just looked at a video from 2 years ago, and it didn’t remove conditions when using MoRecovery. Sorry Anet, I take back my uber rage!!! Forgive me. I guess now, my thread title will just be click bait.

But we can still discuss the wording on Mender’s Purity.

One odd thing that happened (and I believe still does) when charging mantra of recovery is it procs runes that work on heal. Semi related to the thread topic but yeah it’s bad consistency that some things work with that and some don’t.

skcamow.3527:

One odd thing that happened (and I believe still does) when charging mantra of recovery is it procs runes that work on heal. Semi related to the thread topic but yeah it’s bad consistency that some things work with that and some don’t.

If you’re talking about runes like Centaur, MoRecovery should work, because it explicitly says “when you use a heal skill”. MoRecovery is a heal skill, but it just doesn’t happen to heal you… unless of course you have Restorative Mantras traited. Another example is Rune of Vampirism, because it says “after using your healing skill”. Again, it doesn’t say anything about actually healing yourself.

I haven’t tested to see where it works and where it doesn’t, but I hope it’s consistent across the board. Despite the premise of this thread, it definitely doesn’t work nor has it ever with Mender’s Purity.

The wording is definitely misleading, it doesn’t even mention the heal has to be affecting yourself…
Finding a correct wording will be difficult though, because to my knowledge it doesn’t proc on the passive signet heal either.

Of course there’s also Confusing Combatants, which doesn’t seem to work for phantasms, and Dazzling Glamours, which doesn’t elaborate on its interaction with pulses (plus Portal doesn’t have a “target location” per se)

While it would be nice for the condi removal to also proc on cast, I’m glad its not solely so. I’d take the 6 condi removal on heal over 2 on charge if I had to pick between the two.

Though I think it would be a bit too potent if it did so on charge too. Already got 6 groups of 2 cleanses with Resolve on top. It’s enough to make most condi specs rage. XD

Anet Lack of Transparency [regarding just about everything important to our class].

What is new here and what could possibly come from discussing this?

In my experience it is often the case that a lack of coherent explanation for the actions of someone or some organization comes from the inability to provide it. In other words, when a person or team is totally incompetent in some of their actions, don’t expect a coherent explanation of those actions because they aren’t able to give you one!

News flash: Anet is incompetent when it comes to mesmers.

MSFone.3026:

Anet Lack of Transparency [regarding just about everything important to our class].

What is new here and what could possibly come from discussing this?

In my experience it is often the case that a lack of coherent explanation for the actions of someone or some organization comes from the inability to provide it. In other words, when a person or team is totally incompetent in some of their actions, don’t expect a coherent explanation of those actions because they aren’t able to give you one!

News flash: Anet is incompetent when it comes to mesmers.

It’s not (only?) incompetence though. Anet is generally bad when it comes to negative feedback, discussions and dia logue with the community.
In SC2 the full intended patch changes are uploaded for public testing, along with an official developer overview detailing the intentions behind the change and known concerns.
LoL even integrates this into the patch notes themselves, with a developer comment adressing every change made in the patch, even with known exploits.

We get vague “fixed an issue…” bullet points and random numbers every few months, with little to no information on how or why these came to be. Half the changes aren’t even listed, and sometimes officially declared changes aren’t actually functional (Illusionary Elasticity anyone?)

I don’t know if they can’t (due to lacking manpower or official “no disclosure” rules from NCSoft/whoever) or don’t want to, but Anet communication sucks almost as bad as their QA team (if they have one)

Just needs to be updated to say “…when using a healing skill”. That should suffice.

It would be nice if it worked with other Mesmer healing traits though (not with regen procs ofc). Well it would make things more interesting at least.

It’s my opinion that the wording should be changed to “remove 2 conditions when using a heal skill” for the following 2 reasons:

• It reduces the amount of confusion based on wording. Based on how it is phrased, Mender’s Purity should also be removing conditions when we heal in other ways. And if they meant healing via a heal skill, then when wouldn’t MoRecovery with traited Restorative Mantras not remove 2 conditions???
• It would buff a very underwhelming skill to give Mesmer more sustainability. The healing is very weak and doesn’t make up for the low CD.

Some other comments based on recent posts —

Anet Lack of Transparency [regarding just about everything important to our class].
What is new here and what could possibly come from discussing this?
News flash: Anet is incompetent when it comes to mesmers.

Your air of negativity isn’t exactly helpful? :$ Everyone has a right to be jaded about anet and the repeated failure they’ve been to the Mesmer class. However, I don’t think people should give their negative input just for the sake of giving it as it stifles effective communication even further. Just to be witty and snotty in return, what’s the point of not discussing this? lol It sucks when we complain and nothing changes, but it sucks just as much to not complain in the first place. I’d prefer to be in the first camp and continue to make efforts with Anet with the hope that change happens.

While it would be nice for the condi removal to also proc on cast, I’m glad its not solely so. I’d take the 6 condi removal on heal over 2 on charge if I had to pick between the two.

This is an unfair comparison to make. In order for MoRecovery to remove conditions at all, let alone 6, you’d need to make the 2 point investment into Inspiration, and take Mender’s Purity. You’d be surprised with how difficult this contingency can sometimes be with the way our Mesmer class works. No investment into Inspiration is necessary for MoResolve to remove 4 conditions.

Of course there’s also Confusing Combatants, which doesn’t seem to work for phantasms, and Dazzling Glamours, which doesn’t elaborate on its interaction with pulses (plus Portal doesn’t have a “target location” per se)

This is a little off topic, but not really? I had no idea that phantasms didn’t proc CC!! :O Can someone confirm this? There’s no room for confusion here: phantasms are definitely illusions as proved via Illusionist Celerity. If this bug is true, it would deserve a “hot fix”, but I we only get hot fixes when they’re nerfing things like Power Block. el oh el.

In reference to Dazzling Glamours, I always took “…blind foes at target location” to mean that the blind is applied only at activation of the glamour. i.e. if you walked into a Null Field after it was cast, you wouldn’t be blinded. idk if this is how it works, but it’s how I always imagined it. So this wouldn’t take into account the pulses of Null Field. No other glamour “pulses”.

It really comes down the details in the wording.

MoRecovery
-is a mantra skill
-is a healing skill, but does not “heal”

Power Return
-is not a mantra skill
-is a healing skill and does “heal”

Mender’s Purity – “lose 2 conditions when you heal”
-MoRecovery does not heal, so it does not process the trait
-Power Return does heal, so it process the trait

Centaur Runes (example) – “gain swiftness when you use a heal skill”
-both MoRecovery and Power Return are healing skills, so both process the rune

The confusing part is on Mender’s Purity’s wording. If you look at the wiki, it has a note stating it "only works on healing skills’. So Mender’s Purity description should probably be rephrased to say:

Mender’s Purity: “remove 2 conditions when you heal with a healing skill”

I can see it now, the next big balance patch and the only thing listed for Mesmer’s is:
“Update to Mender’s Purity’s tooltip.”

MailMail.6534:

This is a little off topic, but not really? I had no idea that phantasms didn’t proc CC!! :O Can someone confirm this? There’s no room for confusion here: phantasms are definitely illusions as proved via Illusionist Celerity. If this bug is true, it would deserve a “hot fix”, but I we only get hot fixes when they’re nerfing things like Power Block. el oh el.

Last I checked, phantasms proc confusing combatants. This was fixed well over a year ago I believe.

MailMail.6534:

In reference to Dazzling Glamours, I always took “…blind foes at target location” to mean that the blind is applied only at activation of the glamour. i.e. if you walked into a Null Field after it was cast, you wouldn’t be blinded. idk if this is how it works, but it’s how I always imagined it. So this wouldn’t take into account the pulses of Null Field. No other glamour “pulses”.

What you have here is exactly how it works. The wording isn’t crystal clear, but it’s pretty evident what it’s trying to say.

SlimChance.6593:

Mender’s Purity: “remove 2 conditions when you heal with a healing skill”

I can see it now, the next big balance patch and the only thing listed for Mesmer’s is:
“Update to Mender’s Purity’s tooltip.”

How do you account for the passive heal on Ether Signet? At the very least it would have to be “…when you heal using a healing skill”, which technically also covers RM since it’s the trait that heals, and not the skill. Does the cleanse proc on tonics?

Is there any up-to-date repository of what skills/traits actually do? The game itself obviously doesn’t tell, and the wiki has gotten a bit out of date with the last few Feature Pack fixes and “fixes”.

Ok, is this better?

Menders’s Purity – “remove 2 conditions when you heal by ‘activating’ a healing skill”

That will exclude Ether Signets passive heals and any healing from a trait. So only healing that is obtained from the player hitting the 6th skill on the toolbar.

SlimChance.6593:

Menders’s Purity – “remove 2 conditions when you heal by ‘activating’ a healing skill”

Aside from having misspelled Mender’s Purity, excellent! :P

Now, are there any fringe cases with Tonics or the like which would contradict this wording? I think some environmental effects can still apply conditions without putting you in combat, has anyone tested the tonic revert skills in such cases?