Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I love the fact that you can do a ton of different things with Mesmer. But the sheer fact that there is so many directions and combinations that Mesmer keeps getting nerfed because someone is going to find the new powerful combo. I think Anet really needs to step back and think hard on what they really want Mesmer to be.

Personally, I see Mesmer as being a counter-class. They don’t need to be powerful or do top end raw damage, leave that to other simple classes. Of late I keep seeing our ‘counter’ strategies being crippled and getting more and more raw DPS. That is somewhat nice for PvE, I guess… but that isn’t Mesmer(except in the case of the two block skills, but that is a type of counter which they pay for not noticing).

Mesmer should be there to control a fight, they cause chaos, mislead you with clones. You notice a powerful Phantasm, you should kill it before it unleashes it’s pain. You win by CC and disables? We have things like Mirror of Anguish and a few good stun breakers. You want to get at us? Maybe you need to run through that chaos storm and take the random chance. You’re gonna cast that big power attack? No, interrupted and your gonna pay since I noticed and countered you. You’re gonna hit me with a ton of fast attacks without thinking? How about some confusion and retribution to make you pay for your mistake.

This is the essence of Mesmer, it’s not supposed to be a powerful class. It’s a smart class that if you play well, your opponent will do themselves in or run away raving mad. You assist a team by throwing a psychic dagger at the proper time making the other team stumble and give yours the advantage.

Everything I’ve seen from day one is making things purely stronger, but not actually fixing skills (with the exception of Confusing Images, which was nice, and the half fix on The Prestige so it isn’t channeled, now you just need to fix the blast finisher). And to counterbalance that you’ve made our counter/utility weaker like confusion(first lowering the length of time and now dropping the damage), quickness, nerfing illusion of life, keeping mantras(a really nice anti CC skillset) pretty weak(though I appreciate the initial cast reduction as a start), nerfing blurred frenzy so it’s effect isn’t distortion can’t reflect from the trait instead of fixing it(just add the Mirror effect, not that hard). Fixing the animation and timing on when the effects actually go off(Like Temporal Curtian’s crazy swiftness, our only ‘dependable’ one, that doesn’t play nice with others or if you[or a Dolyak] start on it and stealth not playing nice with Thief stealth). I like being chaotic but using stuff should be somewhat dependable even if it fails to get the desirable outcome aka they didn’t fall for the trap. My skill shouldn’t be based on how I avoid bugs in the stuff I use.

I love Mesmer, I’ve learned to adapt, but I have to say for the most part I’m not happy with the direction the changes, stop upping direct damage, fix our bugs and please stop nerfing our class specials and counters.

Well, some people like to have variety. What does need to be buffed, as you said is our Control. That is it, everything else, no matter how hard they hit us we still perform the best in. I agree with what you say, making the Mesmer more like the Gw1 equivalent, and I think they are moving towards that area with mantra buffs etc, however other classes need fixing more.

Chaos Maestro > Guardian Boons.
Immortal Mesmer > Guardian Retaliation
Shatter Cat > Thief Burst
Phantasm Builds > Warrior DPS (2 Duelists anyone?)

See how many “>” there was, that’s because we are possibly overpowered, but most certainly one of the most fixed classes, ok they nerfed confusion, we can still do the other stuff. So we need a list of what needs to be done:

→ Fix other classes
→ Give us CC

They nerfed confusion but it is still a powerful shut down condition… Pure rabid builds still do some great things.

Benjamin.8237:

Well, some people like to have variety. What does need to be buffed, as you said is our Control. That is it, everything else, no matter how hard they hit us we still perform the best in. I agree with what you say, making the Mesmer more like the Gw1 equivalent, and I think they are moving towards that area with mantra buffs etc, however other classes need fixing more.

Chaos Maestro > Guardian Boons.
Immortal Mesmer > Guardian Retaliation
Shatter Cat > Thief Burst
Phantasm Builds > Warrior DPS (2 Duelists anyone?)

See how many “>” there was, that’s because we are possibly overpowered, but most certainly one of the most fixed classes, ok they nerfed confusion, we can still do the other stuff. So we need a list of what needs to be done:

-> Fix other classes
-> Give us CC

The different classes bring different things alongside those boons, retal/survival, burst, & dps. A good example is a healway guardian (retal/bunker) will bring large heals (like 3k in WvW) to their allies with selfless daring. Mesmer is generally lacking in that regard.

I also don’t agree that mes is the better in all of those cases. It would be highly situational.

I agree with the OP about the working around bugs thing… this is a bane far too many classes have to deal with this far out from launch. Hopefully this next month’s batch of fixes (which they say will be their focus) will clear some of this junk up.

ben pretty much nailed it. the other classes need to be brought up to par

well the glam build was pretty much that. no direct dmg, but punishing mindless zergs that love to blob and button spam. and yes our class should have different ways to lock enemies down. confusion, stuns, daze,cripple,vulnerability and of course reflection. and believe me glam only dealt direct dmg if a projectile was reflected…i want my confusion back!

Maybe some kind of cast bar like we had in GW would be awesome. Builds focused on interrupting would be possible then.

I know you can do that already now by looking at the cast animations but try that against a small Asura.^^

Imo those interrupt builds were the most fun and required the most skill back in GW.

Dracatis.1908:

You’re gonna hit me with a ton of fast attacks without thinking? How about some confusion and retribution to make you pay for your mistake.

…Yeah, um… certain other professions which have our best elite as a utility skill (-_-;) already cried that one into oblivion. Was one of my favorite ways to down an overzealous and careless thief… and now it’s gone.

the problem i see with this argument… “make this class a smart class”

how do you buff stupid people enough to beat smart people without nerfing stupid people that play mesmers.

the problem is that anet looks at the strongest potential of a class and compares that to the worst players of another class and nerfs to balance that.

confusion wasnt killing good players. and good players were balanced vs confusion specs. same with thief stealth. but it killed alot of dummies. so it got nerfed.

it should be balanced around the best players of each class. if they can go back and forth evenly with even skill they are balanced.

they should balance the class based on thier potential and make people who suck strive for that potential to be balanced vs the best of another profession. but they tone down the top end to make crappers comparable to the best geared/played.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Dracatis.1908:

You’re gonna hit me with a ton of fast attacks without thinking? How about some confusion and retribution to make you pay for your mistake.

…Yeah, um… certain other professions which have our best elite as a utility skill (-_-;) already cried that one into oblivion. Was one of my favorite ways to down an overzealous and careless thief… and now it’s gone.

Someone can Moa on a utility skill? :-P

TooBz.3065:

Someone can Moa on a utility skill? :-P

:-P <— icwutudidthar (I get the sarcasm)

I obviously don’t consider Moa Morph to be mesmer’s best elite, but the way in which it renders all of your skills useless is comparable to stealth (if the thief moves out of range of any used skills, obviously), which actually lasts longer than Moa Morph. :P

I vote for confusion being buffed again!!!!yaaaaaaaaay…erm i mean moa is such an amazing buff they gave us instead….we will turn zergs into an army of birds and shall rule the world!…..oooorr maybe not..

It wasn’t sarcasm so much as a joke.

I actually though you were either talking about timewarp (haste, fenzy) or mass invisibility (blinding powder, shadow refuge)

Gotcha.

As a footnote, sarcasm and jokes aren’t mutually exclusive as sarcasm is a form of joking.

…and what was that one post above? Turn Moa Morph into an AOE? LOL. Brilliant idea.

I read this as an obviously justified complaint of a natural consequence of a well-predicted outcome of the fail patch that nerfed confusion.

More power Mesmers; what did you expect would happen?

Something that is very perturbing to me…. They nerfed confusion to sPvP levels in WvW because we are fighting players in WvW and whatever else bogus excuse they can come up with for hamstringing this condition….Yet certain other things that are excluded from sPvP are still allowed in WvW.
Higher Crit Chance in WvW
Higher Crit Damage in WvW
Ele’s/Guardians healing
Boon duration increases through food etc etc….

So why hamstring this one condition neutering an entire build for a class but allow thieves to run around with a 120% crit chance/damage? Is it really that fair?

jportell.2197:

Something that is very perturbing to me…. They nerfed confusion to sPvP levels in WvW because we are fighting players in WvW and whatever else bogus excuse they can come up with for hamstringing this condition….Yet certain other things that are excluded from sPvP are still allowed in WvW.
Higher Crit Chance in WvW
Higher Crit Damage in WvW
Ele’s/Guardians healing
Boon duration increases through food etc etc….

So why hamstring this one condition neutering an entire build for a class but allow thieves to run around with a 120% crit chance/damage? Is it really that fair?

yup very true it’s not fair but hey the dev’s have already proven, that they are not really good with balancing(look at ac’s…)

TooBz.3065:

It wasn’t sarcasm so much as a joke.

I actually though you were either talking about timewarp (haste, fenzy) or mass invisibility (blinding powder, shadow refuge)

Both Mass Invisibility and Time Warp are vastly superior to either options you mentioned.

zaxon.6819:

the problem i see with this argument… “make this class a smart class”

how do you buff stupid people enough to beat smart people without nerfing stupid people that play mesmers.

the problem is that anet looks at the strongest potential of a class and compares that to the worst players of another class and nerfs to balance that.

confusion wasnt killing good players. and good players were balanced vs confusion specs. same with thief stealth. but it killed alot of dummies. so it got nerfed.

it should be balanced around the best players of each class. if they can go back and forth evenly with even skill they are balanced.

they should balance the class based on thier potential and make people who suck strive for that potential to be balanced vs the best of another profession. but they tone down the top end to make crappers comparable to the best geared/played.

Could not agree with you more, however ANet focuses on the mainstream so that might never happen. The need of the many outweighs the need of the few, even if that need is really stupid. This is the history of humanity basically bro.

Blackhat.4016:

Maybe some kind of cast bar like we had in GW would be awesome. Builds focused on interrupting would be possible then.

I know you can do that already now by looking at the cast animations but try that against a small Asura.^^

Imo those interrupt builds were the most fun and required the most skill back in GW.

Second! I lived for that. There’s too many particle effects and movement though to be as efficient as GW1 currently though. You need to be able to size up people, builds, and general dynamics quickly – hard to do when everybody is moving 24/7, there’s all kinds of pretty lights and whatnot going off, and you can’t tell exactly when/what they are doing without guessing/digging deep into your own knowledge.

ExZee.8109:

I read this as an obviously justified complaint of a natural consequence of a well-predicted outcome of the fail patch that nerfed confusion.

More power Mesmers; what did you expect would happen?

Actually just the opposite. My personal build actually has very little to do with conditions so I don’t have a ton in condition damage and more in power/precision. But my build isn’t about doing big damage, it’s to take advantage of mistakes and things people are too dependent on.

Purifier.9865:

zaxon.6819:

the problem i see with this argument… “make this class a smart class”

how do you buff stupid people enough to beat smart people without nerfing stupid people that play mesmers.

the problem is that anet looks at the strongest potential of a class and compares that to the worst players of another class and nerfs to balance that.

confusion wasnt killing good players. and good players were balanced vs confusion specs. same with thief stealth. but it killed alot of dummies. so it got nerfed.

it should be balanced around the best players of each class. if they can go back and forth evenly with even skill they are balanced.

they should balance the class based on thier potential and make people who suck strive for that potential to be balanced vs the best of another profession. but they tone down the top end to make crappers comparable to the best geared/played.

Could not agree with you more, however ANet focuses on the mainstream so that might never happen. The need of the many outweighs the need of the few, even if that need is really stupid. This is the history of humanity basically bro.

You nerf stupid people that play mesmers. I’m sorry, not every class needs to be accessible to every play style. While I understand they don’t want the specific classical party types (AKA Tank, Healer, DPS, ext.) there are certain things and specialties that some classes will do better. Thieves will stealth, Rangers will trap, Guardians will wall off areas, ext. I simply wish Mesmer’s would simply be more like the class they were set up to be a class that counters tactics. The weakness being of course if they aren’t using a tactic that you are set to counter, you’re probably going to lose or at least have a hard fight. Powerful long cast spells and minions/turrets counter confusion, melee and beams counter reflection, no dependance on boons counters boon removal/steal, no dependance on conditions counters condition stripping/giving, condition removal(or pure random luck) counters mass random conditions or confusion/bleed stacks.

Our variety should be on how we choose to pick our counters to things our parties are most threatened by. We need our counters working and stronger rather then more pure DPS.

a class to shut down enemies does not exist nor will exist in the future. This is not casual enough and anet is all about goofy things aimed at casuals that play 2h per week.

selan.8354:

well the glam build was pretty much that. no direct dmg, but punishing mindless zergs that love to blob and button spam. and yes our class should have different ways to lock enemies down. confusion, stuns, daze,cripple,vulnerability and of course reflection. and believe me glam only dealt direct dmg if a projectile was reflected…i want my confusion back!

I agree, I had to change my entire set because I wasn’t getting the satisfaction I once had…. Mesmers need to stop being nerfed.

Mesmers are awesome- like.. why add something then take it away then re add it but less effective then completely take it away again?? Whats the purpose in that- with any class nerfing.
Confusion builds were my fav to run in WvW so now I and many others must find a different build that will eventually be nerfed in some way and the cycle will continue.. regardless I still love my mesmer I just stay out of WvW from now on

SnowHawk.3615:

Mesmers are awesome- like.. why add something then take it away then re add it but less effective then completely take it away again?? Whats the purpose in that- with any class nerfing.
Confusion builds were my fav to run in WvW so now I and many others must find a different build that will eventually be nerfed in some way and the cycle will continue.. regardless I still love my mesmer I just stay out of WvW from now on

very true. …hmm we are supposed to mesmerize, thats why we are called mesmers right? sooo when somone is mesmerized, it will affect his playstyle, his attacks, they get confused and hurt themselves while being confused…i mean if u are confused and use a sword, u might end up hitting or cutting yourself…so yeah confusion should be part of a mesmer and also should deal a great dmg…

glam is a build choice and believe we give up everything else for it. no dmg, long cooldowns…glam needed a lot of coordination in order to be effective

confusion was fine in wvw the way it was, people just do not like to slow down their attacks and yes i died to it too the first time i was exposed to a glambomb. my guild wiped a couple of times till we understood how to deal with it.

Confusion and random conditions should BE our damage in my opinion. If anything to keep it balanced they should nerf the stacks and time OTHER classes that do confusion get, not nerf the overall effect in itself. High level nerfs have horrible fallout like how nerfing quickness killed our elite but made it a bit more viable for other classes utility. Or maybe the damage nerf was so they could buff our confusion length or stacks in an upcoming patch? Because yea, as one of the few backers behind iMage in hopes it gets more worthwhile… this, along with the stealth reveal/unable to combo with thief stealth… almost kills me running torch… ever now. I’m reconsidering Pistol(I’m a level 80 that hasn’t touched pistol even to learn the skills for personal reasons, mostly a distaste of guns in these types of settings) and I really would hate to have to change styles simply because it’s being nerfed to oblivion. That is the worst thing you can do in a game. Well not SWG combat patch worst, but getting there.

Purifier.9865:

zaxon.6819:

the problem i see with this argument… “make this class a smart class”

how do you buff stupid people enough to beat smart people without nerfing stupid people that play mesmers.

the problem is that anet looks at the strongest potential of a class and compares that to the worst players of another class and nerfs to balance that.

confusion wasnt killing good players. and good players were balanced vs confusion specs. same with thief stealth. but it killed alot of dummies. so it got nerfed.

it should be balanced around the best players of each class. if they can go back and forth evenly with even skill they are balanced.

they should balance the class based on thier potential and make people who suck strive for that potential to be balanced vs the best of another profession. but they tone down the top end to make crappers comparable to the best geared/played.

Could not agree with you more, however ANet focuses on the mainstream so that might never happen. The need of the many outweighs the need of the few, even if that need is really stupid. This is the history of humanity basically bro.

Its shooting yourself to the leg. Eventually the noobs become veterans and leave because they find the game shallow.