Guild Wars 2

Hi guys

Is there such a thing as a Non-shatter condition “legion” build?

I play PvE, I like staff/sword/focus but I don’t like shattering (the mechanic just grates on me sorry) so I want to keep my illusions up doing things and keeping me safe. From looking around I found the “legion” build which focused on keeping illusions up and staff condition builds but they all seem to be using shattering.

Can you guys help me in merging the two builds effectively to fit this play style of mine? Heres what I fumbled to but im not sure if points in duelling is the way to go?…

I’m guessing gear wise I should just go for Condition damage? Any guidence greatly appreciated.

Well, i’m not very deep into condition mesmer since i use to play a power shatter or a power mantra build but..
This is what i think about the build, anyone correct me if i’m wrong:

- compounding power: i read in many posts that this is not affecting condition damage. So..if you run a condition build you probably want to pick up master of misdirection instead
- illusionary elasticity: you don’t have it in your build but since you’re using a staff it’s a must have imo, it greatly increases your dps providing you can stay in a mid-close range from your target
- confusing combatants: i’m not sure if it’s worth it, in a pve situation mobs attacks are so slow that there are better ways to spend that 5 trait points (as going deeper in illusions for illusionary elasticity for example)
- phantasmal fury: well, this is really a matter of opinions..i find this trait not very useful since your iWarlock is not a reliable source of bleeds from crits (too slow, and it deals almost no damage without power and crit dmg) and the iWarden will almost istantly get killed if he starts dealing crits in a mob zerg. I would probably go for desperate decoy but as i said, this is a really open issue..

I’d save the 10 points in dominion too, spamming staff 2 gives you a lot of mobility and in many pve situations (but from solo i guess) you won’t need that extra kite.

Utility: signet of domination isn’t really a good choice imo. The stun is not that useful in a pve situation and it negates the passive bonus, which is not that good compared to other utilities imo. I would probably pick some condition removal instead (null field is a great support in dungeon)
If you aren’t planning on shatters (and you aren’t, as you said) mirror image is probably a major overkill. I’d pick blink instead, i can’t really play without it. There are so many situation in which is a ground breaking skill..you can blink away from a aoe, you can be crippled or immobilized that doesn’t matter. You can teleport and rez your downed buddies, you can blink on reflecting cristals in fractal and do some lame stuffs you’ll learn in time:P
As for the elite, pick up time warp. There is really no point in using the moa in a pve situation (neither in pvp actually imo..but nvm). There are some situations (cof p1 bridge skipping, exploring and so on) where you will pick up mass invis insted, but time warp will be your main choice 9 time out of 10.

As i stated at the beginning, i’m not really deep into condition mesmer so take what i said as it is..
And of course, there are a lot of better mesmers than me here, hope to read what they say too so i can learn a thing or two myself^^

This is great, exactly what i was after many thanks.

illusionary elasticity is one i really wanted but it urked me to have to go so deep into illusions to get it since there was only Illusionist Celerity that i thought benifitial and i didnt need shatter recharge reduction. But i guess it does give me points into condition damage so thats good synergy. Compounding power is just the only tier one trait i like as i thought it might help with the focus phantasm and add a bit to crits in the duelling line?.

Your point on confussion in PvE is good i can see that, as well as the point about Domination. Im not the most skilled keyboard basher so i thought crippling done by killed clones could take care of that for me lol

Thanks for your utility suggestion too. I can see Null field is great as i level up and i know i should use blink more than i do so id best get training I like decoy, its saved me many a time in PvE along with Temporal Curtain.

Build take 2

In groups i like to fall back into a support role so i may keep illusions at 5 and put 15 into inspiration so allow for alliy buffs at the expense of illusionary elasticity.

I’d be interested to here more about the debate on using dueliing for crit bleeds. Do people think its worth it looking from a PvE perspective?

My Current Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa8dlwzKo3QTqGaNJxZGRf5oUgdvTqgqLfA3A;T8Ag1ypEOJxSFlCKqmMNJay2krJZTDI2iMFB

I’m still working on getting more sets of gear, and they recently debugged Duelist’s Discipline, but I’ve been pretty successful with it for months. The gear also easily translates into a WvW Confusion Shatter build as well.

edit: remember the Build Editor only has PvP gear, and does not reflect my true stats.

Ive been trying Sword/Focus & Staff lately. The build I am currently tinkering with is:

20 Duelist: Blade Training, Deceptive Evasion
20 Chaos: Illusionary Defense, Chaotic Dampening
20 Inspiration: Mender’s Purity, Warden’s Feedback
10 Illusions: Compounding Power

I play it as a Power build – since sword/focus has no direct condition damage. But with a few tweaks it may work for your purposes.

If you are not shattering illusion then why not just go full Phantasm build, they will be a major part of your DPS.

20 Duelist: Phantasm Fury, Deceptive Evasion
20 Chaos: Illusionary Defense, Chaotic Dampening
25 Inspiration: Persistant Images, Warden’s Feedback
5 Illusions

That gives your Phantasms: Fury, Retaliation, 15% more damage
They also grant Regeneration which causes you to gain Protection, and you get 9% DR when you have 3 out.

iWarlock is 11 sec recharge and iWarden is 15… so you can get 3 out in 11 sec.

Thats fantastic guys thanks for the good advise this really helps a lot. I’m going to try the phantasm build as a base then build from there

Jack-of-Trades build
Just a build that I’ve been using and happy with.
Gear is Rampager’s Armor and Weapons, a mix of Zerker, Rabid, Celestial, and Rampager’s Jewelery, and 6x Scholar Runes.
Weapons: Sword & Focus + Staff. (I carry each possible weapon combination though at all times.)

Condition Damage is high enough to basically double the Bleed damage, making any Critical Hit from an illusion basically deal 500 damage (over 5 seconds of course). With 55% critical hit rate, this occurs often and reliable enough that I’m quite happy to spawn a couple clones on trash and rip it down rather then attempt to get multiple Phantasms on a target.

Traits change depending on how I’m playing. If I’m using the staff more then the MH-Sword, Phantasmal Haste is swapped for Illusionary Elasticity and Blade Training for Phantasmal Fury. If I’m not shattering much, if at all, I’ll instead swap Illusionary Persona for Illusionary Elasticity instead.

Skill-wise, I.Defender is the most swapped skill. Sometimes its for Feedback, other times for Mirror Images (Shattering in DEs), maybe Signet of Inspiration when feeling especially lazy, Blink if I feel like using it, etc.

Phantasms grant you Regeneration, which is always a nice bonus, but it also heals up other illusions. I.Defender + I.Warden + Clone is a nice opener against most creatures as it helps keep the I.Warden alive during its whirl, gives each other Regen to stay up, and dishes out Retaliation damage to help speed up a fight.

Mantra of Recovery + Mender’s Purity + Restorative Mantras is a useful self-heal combo that I’ve grown to love. 2x Condition Recovery leaves my utility skills open for other uses, can heal while stunned/knocked down/etc., and recharging it during a multi-creature fight also heals my nearby illusions to let them survive a bit longer. That, and I don’t want to get rusty on charging a Mantra in-combat.

In combat, I’ll shatter if I expect my clones are about to die or eat an AoE, but I generally don’t spawn & shatter immediately. I’m not dependent on getting 3x Phantasms out for the core of my build, but I’ll do so when I’m in a fight that allows it. I won’t be putting out the sheer damage of true Shatter or Legion builds, but I’m also not confined to it either.

Try it, even if you do replace Illusionary Persona for Illusionary Elasticity. (I like Illusionary Persona, as it means I can use Shatters even after my clones/phantasms are dead. Distortion is just nice to have as a reactionary.).

As for Phantasmal Haste, which a number of people decry as being less useful then +15% damage to Phantasms (10 in Domination or 25 Inspiration)? I tend to keep it, as when in a multi-creature fight I’ll spawn the I.Warden on a ranged enemy, then tackle a different one. 3 seconds off of its CD for the Projectile Bubble is a nice benefit to have. That said, you can probably drop 10 from Illusions and get 10 in Domination to get a flat +15% Illusion damage instead if you don’t like the trait.

If you are asking for what I think you are, it sounds a lot like my build. I have a precision + condition damage build. I use sharper images (illusions bleed on crit) as well as any of the ‘on illusion death’ traits that I could get. Lots of clone generation (on dodge, decoy, mirror images). I run greatsword at range (most often attacks means more chances for clones to crit) and scepter/sword if they close to me (2 blocks).

I’m currently running this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAsdWlwzKqHTTqGb9IiZGEHyhSx1ldlZYbXIA;T8AAzypESJlSNlSKqmMNJay2krJZTLOGUMXA

Use much rabid gear as you can find, rest can be Rampager’s. Undead runes for extra condition damage, superior corruption sigil for condition damage, etc.

The minor traits in Dueling and Chaos are flexible, I just use the maniuplation ones because they allow me to seamlessly interchange between WvW and PvE. All of the major traits are essential.

Basically, the build is just stack up as many clones as you can. You will have to do a little bit of shattering with it, but the focus certainly isn’t on it (for PvE). Sharper Images and the clone conditions, along with your own, will be plenty to down mobs at a reasonable rate. Just try to shatter when your target is low on health to hopefully get a little extra aoe damage/confusion. Your clone generation is so insane with staff #2 and Deceptive Evasion that you won’t have any trouble replacing the clones

Null Field can also be swapped out for any utility that you deem appropriate- Feedback, Arcane Thievery (which syngerizes nicely with the manipulation traits), Portal, Veil, Mirror Images… whatever you deem necessary will work. Elite can also be Time Warp, though I find the stealth helpful when running through mobs in pve.

Decoy and Blink are there to keep you alive (and trust me, between the toughness from Chaos, Phase Retreat, and these, you should never die in pve). They can be changed if you’re superbly confident in your survival though.

A really quick overview, but hopefully that all makes sense. Whatever you do though, don’t take the “cripple on death” trait for clones. You should have no problems kiting and avoiding damage from melee mobs; that trait only encourages bad habits. You should only be using that in PvP, where players can actually catch up to you/run away from you.

theres really no good phantasm based condition build. since staff clones have the highest condition dps of any illusion.

so if you wanted a condition mesmer build, you basically have to spec into staff/rabid gear/20 precision traitline. or go full confusion traits and scepter/torch, but you have to shatter to make full use of the build, plus its only really useful in pvp/wvw

Rampager gear
0
20(Sword traning, duelist discipline)
15(-3% damage taken per illusion)
15(+20% phantasm health)
20(Compounding power, illusionnary haste)

Weapons: Sword/pistol+Sword/focus

@MLieBennett:
That’s a neat build with some good ideas. I’m trying something similar right now, but in a tanky power spec. But if you are considering giving up 10 in Illusions for +15% illusion damage in Domination, I have to say putting those 5 points into Inspiration would be much more beneficial. The +15% damage for phantasms minor is just as good since clones don’t really do damage any more, plus Warden’s Feedback is much better than anything you’d get in Dom.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAsdWl4zKqnUzhGa9IyJFQnzh6B25dfXJF82FC

that is my build, the sig of inspiration+lyssa+timewarp is quite neat, and then just with a 5sec cd only on staff clones i dont really need any other clone generation other than phase retreat and then just keep them up. Is a build a bit on the supportive side yes but still with a good amount of condition dmg. the 2nd weapon set focus varies what i use thoguh most often torch(for blast finisher mainly) or focus, in wvw it is always focus, nothing is better than pulling a poor sod or 2 down from the keep wals into your zerg with focus 4

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQNAW8dlwzKoHVzqGa9IyJFM3yh6x2ldWXJF42FC

Here you have my build. Generaly its similar to LieBennets build but with few differences here and there. This traits give you a lot of possibilites to switch between fights. You can play confusion aoe. You can play a lot of reflects. Aoe blinds. You can buff phantasms if necessary or shatters. Lots of possibilities.

Now.
You`ll mainly use staff. 3 staff clones out with 1 max 2 phantams eventually. With iwarden you can stack lots of bleeds, fast and aoe. Also when traited he reflects projectiles, temporal courtain also + still you have feedback. Lots of control in your hands. Add chaos storm and you have plenty of ways to use them. Reflect? Combo field for more confusion? For chaos storm with blast? Plenty of room for skillfull players. If you know what to place and when in party you can be really awesome support.
You can take 10 points out from Ilussion but as condi mesmer its bad move. + 100 condition damage is whorth to have. Also illusionary persona is awesome to have in your arsenal. Even if you dont like shattering ( i dont like it personally too but i use shatters ) you should consider using shatters atleast from time to time. Traited distortion with reflect or cry of frustration with retaliation is really helpfull. On surviving and dealing damage too. You dont need 20% cd reduction on staff … really it doesnt hurt you that much in condition damage build. 5% toughnes switched to condition is not that much either. I tried it a bit and i didnt found damage boost noticable. On paper? Propably. During playing? Not at all. And i lost lots of my flexibility.

Besides staff you can use few combinations which depends from your trait choosing, playstyle and fight that you are going in.
Sword/Pistol. Good survivability with Blurred Frenzy. Dont underestimate it. Really precious for surviving. I even trait for reduced cd mostly its that good.
Pistol gives you nice bleeding on single target. If you add combo fields properly he`ll also stack confusion like mad with 2-3 duelists up. Still 2 is usually max that i have up and its very rarely. Nice control with stun.
Sword/Focus. I love focus. My favourite one. Aoe bleedings, neat damage, reflects, and temporal courtain. Pulls, reflects and combo field. Also speed/slow. There is no better offhand in 9/10 situations.
Sword/Torch. If you trait for longer confusion duration, and boost phantasms iMage can be really neat. You need 2-3 up but if you manage to have them up they can deal really impressive damage. Retaliation is nice bonus but its hard to use it properly with image as source
And prestige. Aoe blind that can give confusion with nice burn dot. And blasting finisher. With proper usage you can give a lot of chaos shields arround. If you get caught you can use blurred frenzy to survive
And another offhand scepter. You can trait it for retaliation on block and also he adds nice stacks of confusion with 3rd skill. Besides that his clone generation is too slow and besides shattering they r useless. Atleast with my setup of traits.

Keep staff clones up. They are your main source of condition. Dont use +3% damage per ilussion trait. It buffs only your direct damage. Not clones. Illusionary Elestacity is a must. Use staff on medium/short range as much as possible. You`ll get buffs and you`ll dps faster. You can use Illusionary Persona or Dazzling Glamours. In first tier Confusing Cry or Masterfull Reflection. If you time it well … you`ll start noticing why its good to have.
Inspiration. 1st tier Medics Feedback or Glamour Mastery. Feedback every 10 seconds can be pretty neat if you know how to use it and do it good. 2nd tier Wardens feedback or eventually Temporal Enchanter.
Dueling. 1st tier depends of your MH, rest traits and encounter. If you go more for phantasms use phantasms fury if not retaliation on block with scepter is usefull. With sword mh cd reduction is nice to have for reduced BF. Deceptive evasion is a must have.

Utilities:
Signed of Domination. 10% more condition damage … It`s really noticable. I have full rabid exotic gear with Rabid crests. This one ring gives you nice condition damage buff. Stun can be usefull sometimes too.
Feedback. Aoe blind. Aoe confusion. Reflect. All that in one skill if traited. Pretty neat.
Null field. Condi/boon removal. Aoe blind. Aoe confusion. What more i can say.
Both of course are combo fields so more confusion/chaos shields arround!

Elite: Time Warp or Mass invis. Mostly in dungeons TW is better but for skipping and solo pve mass invis can be much more usefull.

This build is more oriented in dungeons but with some utilities switching and good combination of traits and shattering rarely … you not have problems with taggins mobs in open world be it during dynamic events or solo pve.

Gear. Full rabic. Precision/toughness/conddmg.

Conclusion. With this build you are really versatile. You can play wvwvw/pve/dungeons easly with that build with minor trait changing here and there. You are not forced to shatter but shattering can be usefull and boosts you damage. You can play awesome support that can do condition damage and focus more on supporting team ( have all clones up and rezzing someone, buffing with combos etc ). I played condition specs with random condition on clone kill etc etc. With chaos traits etc. For pve imo you cant find better condition build. Awesome survivability. Pretty nice damage. Flexibility. Support. All in one. My favourite

If you have any questions catch me in game i`ll try to help
Cheers
Leku