Guild Wars 2

lowkey salty my build got kitten on

Not really, it was annoyingly clunky and interacted poorly with the other mantra traits.

I just miss the extra charge… It was essencially 33% more effectiveness. Especially on the nerfed healing mantra.
The casting time is a little better and more rewarding ( fall inside each theme) but less one cast really makes them feel lacking.
The auto recharge ammo system on mantras is useless. Too long, making it just better to spend the last charge and recast again.

FJSAMA.2867:

The auto recharge ammo system on mantras is useless. Too long, making it just better to spend the last charge and recast again.

I think that’s intentional, it’s a QoL change so you don’t have to waste charges after finishing a fight. They openly stated their intention was for mesmers to spend their charges and recast the mantra in combat (if not in the patchnotes it’s in a WoodenPotatoes interview). Contrast that with the Firebrand where the ammo recharge is shorter, the final charge is stronger and the cooldown is much longer.

@OP: nope, not missing it one bit. If the heal or Restorative Mantras are too weak now that’s a separate issue caused directly by their nerfs and the extra charge would be even less useful now with the recast bonus.

I don’t miss harmonious mantras.

I’d just like the ridiculous 50% contextual healing of Mantra of Recovery reverted to a flat amount.

Curunen.8729:

I don’t miss harmonious mantras.

I’d just like the ridiculous 50% contextual healing of Mantra of Recovery reverted to a flat amount.

The extra charge was so nice tho

yes… I miss it… and contrary to what ANet claimed and what others in this thread seem to think, Harmonious Mantras and Restorative Mantras functioned perfectly well together, in fact I’d honestly say they complemented each other quite nicely. Restorative Mantras made the charge time not feel like a complete waste, and Harmonious Mantras made it feel more rewarding as you knew you’d spend more time actually using your mantras than recharging them… using Mantras felt much more fluid with 3 charges than it does with 2. Without Harmonious Mantras, mantra use is just plain clunky.

The charge time is still to long, a 0.5s cast time reduction from 2.75 to 2.25 makes zero difference in reality. They should have reduced it all the way to 2s or even 1.75s to make them not feel clunky.

The recharge rate is absurdly high. 2x the normal cooldown is NOT functional by any means, even for recovering mantras out of combat, in most cases you’re better off just burning that last charge. The recharge honestly shouldn’t be any longer than the cooldown plus the charge time, if anything it should only be 1-2s longer…

The bonus for full charge is only obtained from burning all charges and recasting the mantra, which makes waiting for charges to recover on their own even more pointless. If they are going to take 2x as long to recharge on their own, then they should provide the same benefit as casting it manually, otherwise what’s the point? If they are going to provide no benefit when recharged on their own, then the cast time could easily be half the normal cooldown.

And of course, with a recharge system 2 charges is one of the clunkiest things you can do. Making them 3 charges gives you the freedom to actually use your mantras when needed while also giving you that choice between burning that last charge or waiting for a recharge. Additionally, it makes the recharge more appealing when you’ve still got 2 of your 3 charges left at the end of combat.

I do see why Harmonious Mantra’s extra charge would help in PvP and WvW. But the changes to mantras benefits in raid/fractals content, it adds lots of dps to the Mesmer by making it charge overtime. I love Superiority Complex so much and didn’t really mind if Harmonious Mantras were removed. I do agree that 2 charges feel awful though in PvP and WvW, but I think it’s enough for PvE.

Fay.2357:

Not really, it was annoyingly clunky and interacted poorly with the other mantra traits.

This.

The only thing I miss is power cleanse on the minor in insp and the healing of mantra of restoration. I can get behind the changes in some way to restorative mantras but to straight up nerf mantra of restoration like they did means condition cleansing has plummeted.

Not really. Just messes with the way Mantras are used.

I’d very much prefer if Mantras went back to being just a single charge. The main reason it was split into two charges IIRC was because of Harmonious Mantras (it used to have no effect on Mantra of Recovery for balance reasons).

That said most Mantras are better with more charges (Distraction, Resolve, Concentration and, with Mender’s Purity, Recovery), so my reasons are more thematic and… well, multicharge Mantras (particularly Mantra of Pain and Recovery) feels clunky.

No reason we can’t have Mantras with different numbers of charges of course. I don’t see Anet doing that though, they want to show off their shiny new (and for Mantras, horribly ineffectual) ammo system.

Yes, I do. The main purpose of Mantras was to have more fine control over utility skills — the individual charges had weaker effects than a normal utility skill, but taken together (especially with Harmonious Mantras) the effect was more powerful while offering more control.

The downside? It’s difficult to get a recast off in-combat. It’s easy to interrupt (in PvP) and a massive hit to your DPS (in PvE). That’s a fair tradeoff, in my opinion.

If Harmonious Mantras was not playing well with other traits, those traits could have been slightly altered. I will say that I really miss being able to keep conditions off me between Power Cleanse and Power Cleansing on using a charge of the healing mantra.

I miss the harmonious mantra too :‘( I use to play them in PVE / fractal (with the heal on mantra for support party who work perfectly), PvP in interruption build and had and the extra charge of the mantra of distraction and for cleaning alteration… I don’t know if harmonious mantra was used a lot but i really miss it…. And … it’s a nerf for me ^^’

I just cry to see that the new gard spe have 3 mantra and now we can’t even choose trait to have the same amount. Could this trait be merged with other to improve core mesmer mantra ? I hope so … The new system of munition only encourage me to blow all the cast and recast than wait for the too long CD

Sorry for my bad english and have fun to play mesmer

This charge mechanic would have been fine a year ago, with a buff to each individual use to make up for the loss of Harmonious Mantra, but alot of skills outside of mantras are getting this. I don’t see the compensation for them having a 2 sec cast time? 2 sec of resistence 2 seconds after you would want it sure isn’t it.

I think Mantra of Distraction had the right idea in terms of channel effects. Why not go bonkers with that: make every Mantra recharge an associated Shatter skill?

.

Mantra of Pain: Reduce Mind Wrack’s CD by 5s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Resolve: Reduce Cry of Frustration’s CD by 10s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Distraction: Reduce Diversion’s CD by 15s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Concentration: Reduce Distortion’s CD by 10s when channel finishes. CD increased from 15s to 20s.

.

But what about Mantra of Recovery? Well…

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Mantra of Recovery: Grant 5s of Alacrity to yourself when channel finishes. Power Return no longer heals for half health when above 50% HP.

.

Two reasons for this.

First, if other professions are getting Alacrity baseline Mesmer most certainly should get it too.

Second, it’s a throwback to what Mantra of Recovery originally did in GW1. Fitting, no?

Embolism.8106:

I think Mantra of Distraction had the right idea in terms of channel effects. Why not go bonkers with that: make every Mantra recharge an associated Shatter skill?

.

Mantra of Pain: Reduce Mind Wrack’s CD by 5s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Resolve: Reduce Cry of Frustration’s CD by 10s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Distraction: Reduce Diversion’s CD by 15s when channel finishes.
.

Mantra of Concentration: Reduce Distortion’s CD by 10s when channel finishes. CD increased from 15s to 20s.

.

But what about Mantra of Recovery? Well…

.

Mantra of Recovery: Grant 5s of Alacrity to yourself when channel finishes. Power Return no longer heals for half health when above 50% HP.

.

Two reasons for this.

First, if other professions are getting Alacrity baseline Mesmer most certainly should get it too.

Second, it’s a throwback to what Mantra of Recovery originally did in GW1. Fitting, no?

I love it! As for Harmonious, I do miss it but I like the new trait that replaced it even more.

I don’t like the two new traits because they’re boring. Both of them are just straight up number boosts with some conditional bigger number boost.

They’re bandaid fixes to complaints regarding Mesmer power damage, nothing more.

To be honest the new system is fine. I’ve been thinking if what if the ammo system kept going even when the Mantra charge is on cooldown.

For example we take Mantra of Recovery, CD 10, Recharge 20s. Mantra Charges get filled up 20 seconds over time but when you spend all of the charges the skill goes on cooldown just like usual. What I propose is that when it goes on cooldown, the recharge still happens in the background. When you can cast Mantra of Recovery after the 10 second CD, you either have a choice of charging it up for 2 charges, or wait for a bit and not deal with the pain of charging the mantra again for 10 more seconds for 1 charge. This allows Mantra users to have more flexibility with their 2 charges.

Then another example would be Mantra of Pain. 1s CD, 10s recharge. So after spending all your charges you can either wait a bit and not deal with casting the Mantra in battle to get one charge or charge the Mantra so that you get 8 might gain and 2 charges ready for use.

While I couldn’t care less about the trait I am more annoyed on how mantras were changed. In my opinion just a small qol thing instead of a real improvement. Now most ammunition skill are what mantras should have been, while we are still stuck with that terrible charge up, which is no fun to use and lets them feel clunky.

Refia Montes.3205:

To be honest the new system is fine. I’ve been thinking if what if the ammo system kept going even when the Mantra charge is on cooldown.

For example we take Mantra of Recovery, CD 10, Recharge 20s. Mantra Charges get filled up 20 seconds over time but when you spend all of the charges the skill goes on cooldown just like usual. What I propose is that when it goes on cooldown, the recharge still happens in the background. When you can cast Mantra of Recovery after the 10 second CD, you either have a choice of charging it up for 2 charges, or wait for a bit and not deal with the pain of charging the mantra again for 10 more seconds for 1 charge. This allows Mantra users to have more flexibility with their 2 charges.

Then another example would be Mantra of Pain. 1s CD, 10s recharge. So after spending all your charges you can either wait a bit and not deal with casting the Mantra in battle to get one charge or charge the Mantra so that you get 8 might gain and 2 charges ready for use.

Good explanation, that is more or less how I hoped mantras would end up. You spend your charges and have the option to wait for them to recharge over time or you take the risk to recharge them immediately with the drawback of the 2,25 s cast time. Would offer good risk reward play with the changes that mantras get benefits if recasted to max stacks.

Refia Montes.3205:

To be honest the new system is fine. I’ve been thinking if what if the ammo system kept going even when the Mantra charge is on cooldown.

For example we take Mantra of Recovery, CD 10, Recharge 20s. Mantra Charges get filled up 20 seconds over time but when you spend all of the charges the skill goes on cooldown just like usual. What I propose is that when it goes on cooldown, the recharge still happens in the background. When you can cast Mantra of Recovery after the 10 second CD, you either have a choice of charging it up for 2 charges, or wait for a bit and not deal with the pain of charging the mantra again for 10 more seconds for 1 charge. This allows Mantra users to have more flexibility with their 2 charges.

Then another example would be Mantra of Pain. 1s CD, 10s recharge. So after spending all your charges you can either wait a bit and not deal with casting the Mantra in battle to get one charge or charge the Mantra so that you get 8 might gain and 2 charges ready for use.

This would be a step in the right direction, but I think at least a few mantras should have an extra charge with them for that to work – I would suggest pain, recovery and power cleanse.

With this – if you take mantra of pain as an example – you could either wait a bit for that extra charge to help you finish a fight or recharge in full with 8 stacks of might for another powerful burst.

Would provide a nice change / alternative to the skill.

The trait was kinda meh because of it being in dueling (isn’t used in most builds) and at the same time competing with deceptive evasion, at least from a pvp/wvw standpoint it was never a strong trait.