Guild Wars 2

Hello, Mesmer buddies!

With the recent AoE mantra change, I’ve been trying to make a mantra-centric ranged build happen in WvW. I’m still on the fence about investing in Elementalist or Mesmer, so I thought I’d get some advice before giving up.

I’m currently running something like:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWl0npMtloxGNcrNipxcqqIdAHMQpHZ8FA

I’d love some playstyle tips from anyone else trying a similar build. It feels like it’s on the brink of being “an ok build”, but I’m struggling with the large recast times on mantras as well as the difficulty maximizing my AoE potential. Tab-targeting is not the most reliable tool in the world, is what I’ve come to realize, and I often find myself casting on a straggler away from the pack. I’m also not sure if the Domination line is worth it over the Bountiful Interruption and some of the other traits in Chaos.

In general, I try to follow these rules:
-Keep mantras charged when out of battle. If I have less than 3 charges- burn them on empty air and recharge.
-For damage, the priority is: iZerker->Mind Stab->MoP recharging (large groups only)->Mirror Blade/Auto attack (few targets or small groups)->MoD recharging. (Due to the high access of Stability, MoD often only lands on 1-2 targets so it’s not a reliable source of damage/control. MoP seems like higher DPS on a group than GS auto-attack, but that’s the only case where its recharge should be prioritized)
-Use regroups as opportunities to recharge mantras

Any other tips to maximizing the new changes? Or am I hindering myself trying to use those skills in the first place?

I wanted to try making some builds for a Mantra Support Mesmer, but the lack of templates makes it annoying to go back to what I have now.

I did some tinkering. With “Restorative Mantras” and “Mantra Mastery”, you can AoE heal about 11k every 8 seconds, or heal yourself about 17k every 11 seconds. Combined with “Mender’s Purity”, I was able to stand under constant AC fire for a prolonged amount of time and be just fine and remove 4 conditions every 10 seconds. All of this while dealing about 1.4k AoE damage every 5 seconds, not to mention the AoE Daze and AoE Stability. Though spike builds could tear you apart fairly easily, you could probably stay alive against an auto attack from any veteran NPC.

To make this build somewhat practical, I did a 6/4/0/4/0 trait, with “Blade Training”, “Halting Strike”, “Greatsword Training”, and finally , “Empowering Mantras”. I used dual swords primarily. Mind Slash and iLeap will apply Vulnerability and some damage, while also leaving you free to shatter your clone for Diversion at any moment if you need a daze. The skill Counter Blade gives you another free daze every 12 seconds (assuming you’re not attacked at the correct time). The skill Blurred Frenzy (and occasionally iReposte) will provide you with the opportunity to do damage with no worries, as well as provide a good time to use your charged mantras. Disregarding the amount of Vulnerability that your attacks have done, just one Daze will be enough to apply 7s stack of 3 Vuln if you interrupt and 11.25s stack of 5 Vuln for each daze. All the while, you are doing 16% more damage, and an additional 5% if they are not using a skill, which is very possible due to all the Daze going around. If you have the right luck, you could possibly maintain a stack of 15 Vuln. You could potentially shut down your target, if it were not that mantras take 2.75s to cast, and you only have access to 3 short timed dazes where they cannot use skills. Since this is not possible, the healing you get from channeling them partially will make up for it.

What I described above is very difficult to pull off and subject to being worthless when faced by any half decent player in WvW or PvP. There were other combinations of traits such as using “Harmonious Mantras”, but for that you would have to sacrifice either your healing or your damage increase. All in all, I have not found a good way to make a Mantra Mesmer and they will forever be a utility.

That’s unfortunate, narwhalsbend!
I was toying around with a 4/6/0/4/0 build and enjoyed the healing output. It was kind of a toss up between nabbing the chance at stun versus the AoE healing. I liked healing half the time, I liked the stun half the time.

I’ll try again a bit tonight, but “very difficult to pull off” is how I’m feeling so far. There’s a lot of rapid clicking/button pressing when using the mantras. Cycling my normal DPS skills along with balancing charges/recharging is an awful lot of complexity when the elementalist next to me just drops a Lava Font and a static field and has about the same impact on the battle.

Kelthien.8593:

That’s unfortunate, narwhalsbend!
I was toying around with a 4/6/0/4/0 build and enjoyed the healing output. It was kind of a toss up between nabbing the chance at stun versus the AoE healing. I liked healing half the time, I liked the stun half the time.

I’ll try again a bit tonight, but “very difficult to pull off” is how I’m feeling so far. There’s a lot of rapid clicking/button pressing when using the mantras. Cycling my normal DPS skills along with balancing charges/recharging is an awful lot of complexity when the elementalist next to me just drops a Lava Font and a static field and has about the same impact on the battle.

Yeah I know, and in regard to the traits, it’s really a toss up between 6/4/0/4/0 for increased overall damage or 4/6/0/4/0 for another activation on each mantra. Either way, it felt like jumping through a lot of hoops for little reward.

I have not tried out a Mantra build since the patch, however I did run Mantras a good bit pre-patch, so take my comments as you will:

GS & Staff is a combination I would not use. 1 handed weapons have many invulnerabilities/blocks that help you survive which is key in a non-ideal burst build. I tend to think of staff as a complimentary weapon to melee weapon sets and great sword as our main ranged weapon.

Your domination line seems to be aimed toward interrupts. This is one very fun yet micro-management required path. When going the interrupt route for dueling I like to take Furious Interruption over Harmonious Mantras. 3 insta-casts is nice, but if you are focusing on animations and interrupts FI gives you the timely dps burst to take full advantage of your vigilance. Additionally, I long ago gave up on Mantra Mastery. Depending on which 1 handed weapons you use, I would go with either Blade Training for faster Distortion recovery or Retalitory Shield for damage from defense.

If you chose not to go with FI (which I often do), Restorative Mantras is a great place to add your extra points. Spamming Mantra of Pain (which has a very quick cooldown) adds up the aoe healing very well.

Dunno…this was a pvp build with a very high skill cap that really frustrates people that are used to PU or Shatter mesmers…it is virtually a whole new class Post patch I am sure some things have changed

I will be testing 0/(1,10,11)/0/(4,10)/(1,7) Mantra zerg WvW build this weekend GS/Sw+F.

Korusef.3714:

I will be testing 0/(1,10,11)/0/(4,10)/(1,7) Mantra zerg WvW build this weekend GS/Sw+F.

Let me know what you think!
Hopping back and forth between my Ele and Mesmer last night to compare damage, it’s still tough for me to say.

Good mantra bursts are satisfying and even better when dazes/interrupts/stuns work. However, I’d say I’m hitting for 1k-2.4k from a single MoP charge, which is about the same as a tick of meteor or Lava Font on my lower-geared Ele. The Ele also has the benefit of ground targeting, which feels a bit more forgiving in large battles than player targeting.

I definitely notice that I do better when I play slower instead of button-mashing like builds with many instant skills often demand.

Korusef.3714:

I will be testing 0/(1,10,11)/0/(4,10)/(1,7) Mantra zerg WvW build this weekend GS/Sw+F.

I’ve played with a similar trait set-up for a couple of nights. In the end I swapped harmonious mantras for Illusionary Persona for the extra invul. My weapons were sword/focus + Staff.

My utilities are veil, blink, mantra of pain, and of course the mantra heal. Veil and blink are very mandatory in WvW zergs.

IMO restorative mantras is better without HM if you’re running mantra of pain, and restorative mantras is really only worth using if you have MoP; HM essentially reduces the heal efficacy of MoP.

I mostly played with an all-ranger party. IP shatters with IE staff clone bounces were very effective in pressuring out backline gankers. I had my rangers call target on me so they knew where the Time Warp was going to be dropped to Legolas down the enemy commander/squishies. I used a very support healing power setup with Dwayna Runes (Aoe regen on heal, 10s cd; heal mantra arguably is the best heal for on-heal runes) to keep my bow-buddies alive through chip damage and shootouts.

Edit: Posted build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWl0npYtloxMNUrNitxcyaiB1Ld0UlMghB-TlRNwAA0EUT53b1fYqHorSQB7PQKAYWDA-w

I’ll try out runes of altruism (aoe fury and might on heal like Dwayna) sometime later

When using this build, cycle through Mantra of Pain as often as possible, even if it means firing your mantra charges into nothing. I start fights with all mantras charged.

adelaide,
are you having more luck with incorporating shatters into your build rather than focusing purely on mantras? I’ve had such terrible luck with shatter-oriented builds in organized, large-group wvw that I usually avoid them unless specifically told by a commander to stay in backline defense.

I definitely like your healing suggestion! I’ll have to try it out. The mantra healing is pretty strong, and maybe focusing on MoP rather than healing, MoP, and MoD on the same char will make me feel less like I’m in mantra recharge mode all the time.

Kelthien.8593:

adelaide,
are you having more luck with incorporating shatters into your build rather than focusing purely on mantras? I’ve had such terrible luck with shatter-oriented builds in organized, large-group wvw that I usually avoid them unless specifically told by a commander to stay in backline defense.

I definitely like your healing suggestion! I’ll have to try it out. The mantra healing is pretty strong, and maybe focusing on MoP rather than healing, MoP, and MoD on the same char will make me feel less like I’m in mantra recharge mode all the time.

I run the shatter line because:
*IMO illusionist’s celerity deserves to be a GM trait
*IE is very good now
*Shatter3 w/ IP is good for stopping dagger thieves that stone you.
*Shatter4 w/ IP allows you to cross lines/statics without having to dodge first, helping you not get split-off when you do not have stability.
*Shatter1/2 is very good for PbAoe tagging.
*Even if you are not built for burst, Shatter1/2 still provides decent damage with IP

For me, the heal on mantra was just secondary benefit and MoP was going to be the main tagging source so HM gives more damage per charge. But yes, with your setup IP is better.

4/6/4/0/0

Halting Strike, Greatsword Training
All mantra traits in Precision tree
Your choice in Chaos tree

Greatsword + GS

robotempire.2451:

4/6/4/0/0

Halting Strike, Greatsword Training
All mantra traits in Precision tree
Your choice in Chaos tree

Greatsword + GS

I’ll try it out! Do you mean Greatsword and Staff?

Versus my build, you drop 50% stun on daze and 5% damage to inactive foes, along with phantasm retal/condition cleanse. In their place, you pick up some solid defense in the chaos minors and unlock Bountiful Interruption. That could be awesome! I’ll definitely try that out!

I’ve been having good results with this build in large groups (4/6/0/4/0):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhEQJARWl0npEtFrxUNUrNipxcyqiikBcQpHZ8FA-T1xHwADeSB+U+5VXTclg+V/p1+DAukCBAQA25OTn7MduzduzH9oH9oH9od0je0je0jWGgqFA-w

I have been having a ton of fun with this build currently. I have tested all sorts of different specs for zerging and ive found this one to be the best considering the normal zerging conditions (fire fields/empowers giving might and hoelbrak/lemongrass kinda overshadow ci and bi). Mirror can be swapped with ether feast for those rangers

Heres the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpEt1oxMNcrNipxcqqIdANMQpHZ8FA-TlCEwAtUVhwDAgpyruKBlqEhlaFd0NA4gA84KAIc/hAAIAczbezbezbWKgIWGB-w

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I have been having a ton of fun with this build currently. I have tested all sorts of different specs for zerging and ive found this one to be the best considering the normal zerging conditions (fire fields/empowers giving might and hoelbrak/lemongrass kinda overshadow ci and bi). Mirror can be swapped with ether feast for those rangers

Heres the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpEt1oxMNcrNipxcqqIdANMQpHZ8FA-TlCEwAtUVhwDAgpyruKBlqEhlaFd0NA4gA84KAIc/hAAIAczbezbezbWKgIWGB-w

Great build! Very similar to what I’ve been running. I swap Sword/torch out for Staff, since I’m less comfortable in Melee and really enjoy the multi-target interrupts from chaos storm.

I’ve pretty much been swapping between 4/6/4/0/0 and 6/6/0/2/0 and finding them pretty gosh darn similar. 4 in chaos lets me pick up some more defensive, ‘selfish’ buffs like Bountiful Interruption. That might stacks up VERY fast in large battles… wow. The daze/stun is awesome, though I really wish it didn’t have 50% chance to do nothing. It’s so good for catching people when it works!

Bouncing in between these builds and my Ele, I’m finally starting to feel like my mesmer is catching up in contributions to large group battles. Solid damage, great interrupts/disables, and enough buffs/survival/mobility to stay alive.

Kelthien.8593:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I have been having a ton of fun with this build currently. I have tested all sorts of different specs for zerging and ive found this one to be the best considering the normal zerging conditions (fire fields/empowers giving might and hoelbrak/lemongrass kinda overshadow ci and bi). Mirror can be swapped with ether feast for those rangers

Heres the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8flknpEt1oxMNcrNipxcqqIdANMQpHZ8FA-TlCEwAtUVhwDAgpyruKBlqEhlaFd0NA4gA84KAIc/hAAIAczbezbezbWKgIWGB-w

Great build! Very similar to what I’ve been running. I swap Sword/torch out for Staff, since I’m less comfortable in Melee and really enjoy the multi-target interrupts from chaos storm.

I’ve pretty much been swapping between 4/6/4/0/0 and 6/6/0/2/0 and finding them pretty gosh darn similar. 4 in chaos lets me pick up some more defensive, ‘selfish’ buffs like Bountiful Interruption. That might stacks up VERY fast in large battles… wow. The daze/stun is awesome, though I really wish it didn’t have 50% chance to do nothing. It’s so good for catching people when it works!

Bouncing in between these builds and my Ele, I’m finally starting to feel like my mesmer is catching up in contributions to large group battles. Solid damage, great interrupts/disables, and enough buffs/survival/mobility to stay alive.

The reason I don’t run BI is because I already have 25 stacks of might from empowers and fire fields before the fight starts so I picked CS and menders purity, even though I love the trait normally. But yea, I definitely love this build and definitely makes Mesmer viable in zergs

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

The reason I don’t run BI is because I already have 25 stacks of might from empowers and fire fields before the fight starts so I picked CS and menders purity, even though I love the trait normally. But yea, I definitely love this build and definitely makes Mesmer viable in zergs

I’m not as fortunate- I run in zergs, but my might stacks usually run out pretty quickly. With all those interrupts, it’s a LOT of self-buffing ability. For a solo-but-with-people player like myself, that’s fantastic.

If I were to make a guide, I’d definitely lump the two builds together. The play style is almost identical, they just swap a few priorities around here and there. The more I practice and run WvW with the build, the happier I am with it! Landing those huge daze/stun/interrupt and damage bursts is SO satisfying.

What is yours standard combos?

yanniell.1236:

What is yours standard combos?

Not much in the way of combos for my build, unfortunately. Standard Mesmery ones (Chaos Storm+Staff 2 for Chaos Armor, try to aim GS 2 through a field if you can).

As far as attack chains go, if that’s what you’re wondering, it’s tricky.

I almost always start in Staff. Beginning battle with a Chaos Storm is so satisfying, and all those interrupts will usually net me 15-25 stacks of Might right off the bat.

Once in combat, I usually test the water with GS 1, since I’m awful at telling who I have targeted in large battles. If it hits and my target is positioned well- preferably with no stability- I’ll do GS 3 (strip boons in case he/she has protection), MoD (I run Bountiful Interruption, so this gives me Might), MoP (damage), iZerker, Mirror Blade, Mind Wrack. Then I’ll tap MoP 2 more times while auto-attacking before recharging.

It’s a nice chunk of burst very quickly

Kelthien.8593:

yanniell.1236:

What is yours standard combos?

Not much in the way of combos for my build, unfortunately. Standard Mesmery ones (Chaos Storm+Staff 2 for Chaos Armor, try to aim GS 2 through a field if you can).

As far as attack chains go, if that’s what you’re wondering, it’s tricky.

I almost always start in Staff. Beginning battle with a Chaos Storm is so satisfying, and all those interrupts will usually net me 15-25 stacks of Might right off the bat.

Once in combat, I usually test the water with GS 1, since I’m awful at telling who I have targeted in large battles. If it hits and my target is positioned well- preferably with no stability- I’ll do GS 3 (strip boons in case he/she has protection), MoD (I run Bountiful Interruption, so this gives me Might), MoP (damage), iZerker, Mirror Blade, Mind Wrack. Then I’ll tap MoP 2 more times while auto-attacking before recharging.

It’s a nice chunk of burst very quickly

I’m so sad in most case chaos armor doesn’t worth to do that combo anymore.

musu.9205:

Kelthien.8593:

yanniell.1236:

What is yours standard combos?

Not much in the way of combos for my build, unfortunately. Standard Mesmery ones (Chaos Storm+Staff 2 for Chaos Armor, try to aim GS 2 through a field if you can).

As far as attack chains go, if that’s what you’re wondering, it’s tricky.

I almost always start in Staff. Beginning battle with a Chaos Storm is so satisfying, and all those interrupts will usually net me 15-25 stacks of Might right off the bat.

Once in combat, I usually test the water with GS 1, since I’m awful at telling who I have targeted in large battles. If it hits and my target is positioned well- preferably with no stability- I’ll do GS 3 (strip boons in case he/she has protection), MoD (I run Bountiful Interruption, so this gives me Might), MoP (damage), iZerker, Mirror Blade, Mind Wrack. Then I’ll tap MoP 2 more times while auto-attacking before recharging.

It’s a nice chunk of burst very quickly

I’m so sad in most case chaos armor doesn’t worth to do that combo anymore.

I tend to stay at range, so armors aren’t as useful as someone expecting to get hit a lot. If I’m taking hits… I’m activating evasive mode and getting out of there!

If you were running with sword/torch instead of Staff, you’d at least have some access to a Blast