Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

I feel like Mistrust should get 4 stacks, though. It’s a GM, shouldn’t it be defining our build?

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

I feel like Mistrust should get 4 stacks, though. It’s a GM, shouldn’t it be defining our build?

My main problem with mistrust: you interrupt a foe, he gets confusion… but it does not proc because he is dazed.

I really wish mistrust would be: “reduce duration of daze to 0.25s. Dazed enemies are blinded (maybe also weakened). Inflict 4 (for example) stacks confusion to interrupted enemies.”
The perfect example of high risk high reward + you don’t prevent confusion to proc.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

On the subject of stealth – I’ve already replaced Decoy with Well of Precognition which I believe is superior in pvp.

At the moment I’m only using prestige and mass invis on my condition build.

I’ve also found less opponent whining with less stealth which is good for my morale.

(edited by Curunen.8729)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

On the subject of stealth – I’ve already replaced Decoy with Well of Precognition which I believe is superior in pvp.

At the moment I’m only using prestige and mass invis on my condition build.

I’ve also found less opponent whining with less stealth which is good for my morale.

Idk, I had people still whine at me about playing PU condie mes when running sc/shield+staff, blink, pDisenchanter, precog…

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

It’s really only in WvW that they are a problem, after the PU nerf i decided to drag my sinister mesmer out of retirement. I like the added raw DPS pressure sinister provides over pure condis. Although i lose out on the crazy hps/bunkeryness of dire.

Annnd it’s still above the curve in the niche of solo roaming, fighting multiple opponents. But in a game format where the metric for success is PPT it doesnt seem much of a problem. WvW dueling is not balanced, some classes are just better at it than others.

But as someone said above i dont think you should be rewarded for camping stealth/passive play. It’s just a terrible play style, you should be rewarded for active play.

As a side note the boon strip on the disenchanter now with a 2 second attack speed is real.

Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Yasi.9065

Yasi.9065

Im really never quite sure if people are in earnest about that disenchanter or not. Coming from playing boonrip necro for years, it is kinda a joke to me :/

Thing about PU (and thief dp) is, instead of giving other professions tools to disrupt stealth and punishing that kind of “passive gameplay”, anet just tries to nerf stealth skills in general, making the whole unbalanced thing going from one extreme (totally OP) to the other (absolutely useless).

But, tbh, PU never was for me essential to Condi mesmer anyway. I mean, if you need PU to disengage/engage properly in WvW as a mesmer, you might want to re-think your positioning.

Anyway, what I really wanted to post:
Pure condi might not be “the thing” anymore, at least not in sPvP, but Carrion shatter/condi is still quite nice when solo queueing. Against organized groups it faces the same problems as any other condi reliant build: not enough insta gib, too much condi cleanse available to enemies. So its not really limited to mesmer imo.

Lets be perfectly honest, the only condition that REALLY does dmg is burning, and mesmers access to burning is rather…. indirect And bleed stacking is limited as well.
The only condition mesmer can stack passably well is confusion, but that condition was nerfed to the bottom of damaging conditions and most of the time doesnt even provoke a cleanse anymore.

Mesmer however is very good at one thing: cover condis. Access to so many condis in one build means good attrition (only really nice in 1v1) and, “works well with other condi builds”.

Mesmer and thief team, mesmer as carrion/shatter and thief with venoms really hurts. Same for burn guard + mesmer etc.

(edited by Yasi.9065)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

I feel like Mistrust should get 4 stacks, though. It’s a GM, shouldn’t it be defining our build?

My main problem with mistrust: you interrupt a foe, he gets confusion… but it does not proc because he is dazed.

I really wish mistrust would be: “reduce duration of daze to 0.25s. Dazed enemies are blinded (maybe also weakened). Inflict 4 (for example) stacks confusion to interrupted enemies.”
The perfect example of high risk high reward + you don’t prevent confusion to proc.

Mistrust is balanced around you aoe dazing 5 targets and subsequently aoe applying 10 stack of confusion.

I thought a similar thing about mistrust.

I propose changing the name to : Dazed and Confused (since gw loves popular culture references ) Its new effect: The duration of your dazes is reduced by 100%. When you would apply daze, apply 1 stack of confusion instead.

This would solve many problems. First it would allow you to control the amount of daze you output by using traits like confounding suggestions or the rune of the mesmer. Using either of those two method would insure you did at least 1/4 second daze, even if someone is using signet of humility because the game rounds up control duration. Second it would give condi mesmer more options.

Mantra of distraction becomes another cry of frustration. So does diversion.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Mebaru.4513

Mebaru.4513

I still play a lot PU condi mesmer unranked because it’s so fun to trick people. Unfortunately, it’s very true that with all past nerfings this build isn’t strong anymore.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Mikkel.8427

Mikkel.8427

Mistrust – Whenever you inflict vulnerability, you also inflict 1 stack of confusion for 3 secs.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Mefiq.7039

Mefiq.7039

How about creating healthy mesmer build instead of cancer like Condi mesmer that is so extreame. There is 1 thing in this game i hate more than rangers and its Condi Mesmer build, it kittens totaly whole idea of playin pvp where you have to be active, attack to deal dmg, use stills to condi clear. When im forced to fight vs this pile of garbage it denies any movement (10++ torment) it denies any fight/cleansing(20+ conf) basicly renderig every melee class in 1v1 to nothing, i know this build is garbage in teamfghts but still, i would like more to get burned from noobguard than go fight with class that basicly need to drop all shatters/block/stealth/repeat, Atleast when im trying to cleanse burning i wont get punished with 1000+++ Conf tick.

TL:NR Condi Mesmer is not healthy for pvp so lets reduce it to the ground. Its insane only cuz of matchmaking system that wont balance team buildwise. If enemy got teamsupport u gonna suck, if they dont- god help them.

AND PLEASE! Dont try to deny that this build is totaly broken, I had arguments with burnguards that were saying “burnguard is just for fun and not rly effective(while stacking tons of burns)” they were so mad when i called thier trololo build broken and GUESS WHAT? Wheres medi guard? Not meta anymore? ooOooOoo Burnguard “so fun and not effective” build is meta now? They better kill this build before it grows.

AND YES im a Thief dont “burn” me

“Im speaker of Truth” – Mefiq.7039 2015

(edited by Mefiq.7039)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

How about creating healthy mesmer build instead of cancer like Condi mesmer that is so extreame. There is 1 thing in this game i hate more than rangers and its Condi Mesmer build, it kittens totaly whole idea of playin pvp where you have to be active, attack to deal dmg, use stills to condi clear. When im forced to fight vs this pile of garbage it denies any movement (10++ torment) it denies any fight/cleansing(20+ conf) basicly renderig every melee class in 1v1 to nothing, i know this build is garbage in teamfghts but still, i would like more to get burned from noobguard than go fight with class that basicly need to drop all shatters/block/stealth/repeat, Atleast when im trying to cleanse burning i wont get punished with 1000+++ Conf tick.

TL:NR Condi Mesmer is not healthy for pvp so lets reduce it to the ground. Its insane only cuz of matchmaking system that wont balance team buildwise. If enemy got teamsupport u gonna suck, if they dont- god help them.

You lost me at “cancer”. Try analyzing the build, or better, try playing it, instead of repeating someone else’s ignorant bullkitten. Using the word “cancer” immediately gave you away, but I’ll point out a couple other spots that reveal how little you understand what you’re talking about:

Condi mesmer that is so extreame.

Nearly every other condi class has more reliable/stronger burst than condi mesmer, because they get multiple stacks of burning. Condi mesmer is, by definition, the least “extreame” condi class.

There is 1 thing in this game i hate more than rangers

Oh, noez, teh rangers! You do realize that Rangers are probably in the worst position of any class in pvp, right?

and its Condi Mesmer build, it kittens totaly whole idea of playin pvp where you have to be active,

Try playing it, it’s not “passive”. It takes effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up. If you’d actually tried it, you’d not have said this. A classic hallmark of fools repeating the cancer crap, because they don’t realize that you can’t succeed as a condi mes by playing passively.

attack to deal dmg,

If the whole idea of playing pvp were that your attacks deal all your damage directly, Anet wouldn’t support condi builds at all. But…they do.

use stills to condi clear.

If there were no condi builds, there’d be no need to use skills to condi clear.

When im forced to fight vs this pile of garbage

If it wins, it’s not garbage, it’s quality.

it denies any movement (10++ torment)

Bullkitten. To get 10 stacks of torment, you have to shatter 10 clones. That’s 2 3-illusion shatters and 1 1-illusion shatter, all hitting you in the same short period of time. If you got hit by that, you were either afk, or you’re lying. The only alternative is that you attacked a mesmer who was using his scepter 2 block, which is a l2p issue, because you can easily avoid attacking that block.

it denies any fight/cleansing(20+ conf) basicly renderig every melee class in 1v1 to nothing,

1. If you try a condi mesmer, and can post a screenshot of throwing 20+ confusion on somebody, I will give you a cookie. Otherwise, you’re lying out your kitten.
2. Using a single skill, even with “20 confusion”, to cleanse said confusion, will not kill you. In fact, a single power block probably deals about the same damage. If the confusion killed you, you probably spammed your skills without actually trying to cleanse it. 20 confusion goes away with a single cleanse, and unlike necro/engineer, mesmers don’t have the cover condis to keep their precious confusion safe.

i know this build is garbage in teamfghts but

No “but”, that right there is a full stop. If you can’t win in teamfights, you can’t win. If you’re getting your kitten kicked 1v1 by mesmers, stop trying to fight mesmers 1v1. PvP is all about teamfights, and trying to take on the duelist class is a waste of your time. Go cap some points with your teammates, and let the mesmer waste his time trying to accomplish something without them.

still, i would like more to get burned from noobguard than go fight with class that basicly need to drop all shatters/block/stealth/repeat,

What you just described from mesmer is a lot more involved than what a burn “noobguard” has to do to get full stacks. The guard just slaps a handful of buttons and tada! Burning! Getting full shatters is complicated, because you’ve gotta manage illusions to do it. This was another tell that you’ve never actually tried playing mesmer, because no mesmer player would think shattering is as easy as what burn guards do to apply their burning.

Atleast when im trying to cleanse burning i wont get punished with 1000+++ Conf tick.

1. No, instead you’ll just take that 5000++ tick whether you take any actions or not. Burning does more damage than confusion. Only a thief takes actions fast enough to take more damage from confusion than burning, and it’s a dumb thief who keeps spamming skills instead of entering stealth to clear out that confusion.
2. Power builds do several thousand damage with their bursts, why is it so crazy for confusion to deal a 1000+ tick? I mean, that’s the condi mesmer’s full burst there, it’s gotta deal SOME damage before it gets cleansed, or what’s even the point of condi stats in the first place?

TL:NR Condi Mesmer is not healthy for pvp so lets reduce it to the ground. Its insane only cuz of matchmaking system that wont balance team buildwise. If enemy got teamsupport u gonna suck, if they dont- god help them.

There are no condi mesmers taken in WTS or ESL. It’s not doing any harm to pvp at all, it just punishes people who don’t bring condi cleanse, as it should.

Lastly, condi mesmer has been nerfed. Repeatedly. Not only are you wrong, but you haven’t even been paying attention.

Edit: oh hey, you are a thief. I’m shocked, really.

(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Leodon.1564

Leodon.1564

How about creating healthy mesmer build instead of cancer like Condi mesmer that is so extreame. There is 1 thing in this game i hate more than rangers and its Condi Mesmer build, it kittens totaly whole idea of playin pvp where you have to be active, attack to deal dmg, use stills to condi clear. When im forced to fight vs this pile of garbage it denies any movement (10++ torment) it denies any fight/cleansing(20+ conf) basicly renderig every melee class in 1v1 to nothing, i know this build is garbage in teamfghts but still, i would like more to get burned from noobguard than go fight with class that basicly need to drop all shatters/block/stealth/repeat, Atleast when im trying to cleanse burning i wont get punished with 1000+++ Conf tick.

TL:NR Condi Mesmer is not healthy for pvp so lets reduce it to the ground. Its insane only cuz of matchmaking system that wont balance team buildwise. If enemy got teamsupport u gonna suck, if they dont- god help them.

AND PLEASE! Dont try to deny that this build is totaly broken, I had arguments with burnguards that were saying “burnguard is just for fun and not rly effective(while stacking tons of burns)” they were so mad when i called thier trololo build broken and GUESS WHAT? Wheres medi guard? Not meta anymore? ooOooOoo Burnguard “so fun and not effective” build is meta now? They better kill this build before it grows.

AND YES im a Thief dont “burn” me

I don’t play condi for PVP but this post brought a smile to my face. (I also stopped reading after the first sentence but I get the gist of it.) Bonus points for it being a thief.

Faye Oren – Mesmer
Lee Oren – Ranger
Eve Oren – Revenant

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

AND PLEASE! Dont try to deny that this build is totaly broken, I had arguments with burnguards that were saying “burnguard is just for fun and not rly effective(while stacking tons of burns)” they were so mad when i called thier trololo build broken and GUESS WHAT? Wheres medi guard? Not meta anymore? ooOooOoo Burnguard “so fun and not effective” build is meta now? They better kill this build before it grows.

So it is ok for a power build to be meta, but not a condi build? Also burn guard is basically a medi-guard with a torch and different traits. It’s not easier or more difficult to play, it’s the same build! And Carrion is barely more survivable than marauder.

About mesmer: as others said, play it and see if you can stack the amount you claim on anything else than a golem… Condi mesmer is not a very different gameplay to power mesmer, with the difference that you take twice as long (at best) to down someone.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Mefiq.7039

Mefiq.7039

Condi mesmer that is so extreame.

Nearly every other condi class has more reliable/stronger burst than condi mesmer, because they get multiple stacks of burning. Condi mesmer is, by definition, the least “extreame” condi class.

Its extreame cuz its average build with even lower skillcap that gives you sure win vs almost every melee class in 1v1?
[/quote]

There is 1 thing in this game i hate more than rangers

Oh, noez, teh rangers! You do realize that Rangers are probably in the worst position of any class in pvp, right?

Still did you ever won 1v1 vs not braindead ranger? ton of cc(hard cc) massive dmg reduction better than any other class tons of dmg from both range melee and pet. To make ranger meta ranger is buffed patch after patch…

and its Condi Mesmer build, it kittens totaly whole idea of playin pvp where you have to be active,

Try playing it, it’s not “passive”. It takes effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up. If you’d actually tried it, you’d not have said this. A classic hallmark of fools repeating the cancer crap, because they don’t realize that you can’t succeed as a condi mes by playing passively.

You can render enemy useless (passive), and dont try to say its soooo hard to play condi mesmer cuz i tested it myself.

attack to deal dmg,

If the whole idea of playing pvp were that your attacks deal all your damage directly, Anet wouldn’t support condi builds at all. But…they do.

Even to stack Condis u need to attack enemy, your clones must ATTACK enemy DMG is not only physical dmg but also CONDI, and u need to take action to DEAL ANY KIND OF DMG, but ofc lord mesmer will just render your teammate useless making it build that is not only boring and not fun to play but also frustrating for enemies

use stills to condi clear.

If there were no condi builds, there’d be no need to use skills to condi clear.

If there is a build that denies even condi clear and is condi based then wtf>?

When im forced to fight vs this pile of garbage

If it wins, it’s not garbage, it’s quality.

More like easymode for morons.

it denies any movement (10++ torment)

Bullkitten. To get 10 stacks of torment, you have to shatter 10 clones. That’s 2 3-illusion shatters and 1 1-illusion shatter, all hitting you in the same short period of time. If you got hit by that, you were either afk, or you’re lying. The only alternative is that you attacked a mesmer who was using his scepter 2 block, which is a l2p issue, because you can easily avoid attacking that block.

Ye l2p issue when condimesmers just “TORRA TORRA TORRA” with block on to ur attack animation, only way to not get dmg from this build is to stay still/afk what is as i wrote before NOT HEALTHY for pvp. It must be rly fun that only real counter to this build is not doing anything, it punishes u if you attack it punishes you if you want to win vs it.

it denies any fight/cleansing(20+ conf) basicly renderig every melee class in 1v1 to nothing,

1. If you try a condi mesmer, and can post a screenshot of throwing 20+ confusion on somebody, I will give you a cookie. Otherwise, you’re lying out your kitten.
2. Using a single skill, even with “20 confusion”, to cleanse said confusion, will not kill you. In fact, a single power block probably deals about the same damage. If the confusion killed you, you probably spammed your skills without actually trying to cleanse it. 20 confusion goes away with a single cleanse, and unlike necro/engineer, mesmers don’t have the cover condis to keep their precious confusion safe.

Its not even about spamming, you cant get close to mesmer without moving you cant deal dmg without attacking and both of these will deal dmg to you…

i know this build is garbage in teamfghts but

No “but”, that right there is a full stop. If you can’t win in teamfights, you can’t win. If you’re getting your kitten kicked 1v1 by mesmers, stop trying to fight mesmers 1v1. PvP is all about teamfights, and trying to take on the duelist class is a waste of your time. Go cap some points with your teammates, and let the mesmer waste his time trying to accomplish something without them.

What if Your role is to stop what mesmer is doing right now. Put mesmer on khylo treb and gg, no1 can get you put mesmer on tranq and no1 will kill you

TL:NR Condi Mesmer is not healthy for pvp so lets reduce it to the ground. Its insane only cuz of matchmaking system that wont balance team buildwise. If enemy got teamsupport u gonna suck, if they dont- god help them.

There are no condi mesmers taken in WTS or ESL. It’s not doing any harm to pvp at all, it just punishes people who don’t bring condi cleanse, as it should.

IT punishes you for not playing stacked team, punishes you for playing solo.

Lastly, condi mesmer has been nerfed. Repeatedly. Not only are you wrong, but you haven’t even been paying attention.

Edit: oh hey, you are a thief. I’m shocked, really.

HOPEFULLY it got nerfed and im hoping it will get nerfed even harder.

“Im speaker of Truth” – Mefiq.7039 2015

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Lol, complaining about rangers now, are we?

Based on the nature of your complaints, I can confidently say that no matter how hard condition mesmer gets nerfed…you’ll still get dumpstered by them.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Rashagar.8349

Rashagar.8349

I’ve found this thread interesting, though with some posters I was a bit unsure which game mode they were referencing with their posts. This post is probably going to attract a lot less attention than for example Mefiq’s is, but thought I’d make it anyway, cos why not.

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

I’m going to assume you find thieves frustrating to fight as well then?

My only counterpoint to that, really, is that I think Anet wants you to not engage 1v1 in WvW regularly. As a large-scale pvp arena, they seem to intend people to travel in groups, where condi mesmer isn’t really a problem. The ability of some classes to survive solo roaming is incidental, a consequence of giving them stealth (mesmer, thief, engi), mobility (warrior, etc.), or just all-around awesomeness (d/d ele). They just don’t care about solo roaming specifically, because solo really doesn’t matter, and they intend it to be that way.

So if solo mesmers are actually accomplishing significant things in WvW (retaking keeps, soloing a defended garrison), expect them to first kneecap the ability to do such things in the first place, before they nerf the class’s ability to fight 1v1. No surprises that that’s exactly what they’re doing about mesmers hiding in keeps.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Rashagar.8349

Rashagar.8349

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

I’m going to assume you find thieves frustrating to fight as well then?

My only counterpoint to that, really, is that I think Anet wants you to not engage 1v1 in WvW regularly. As a large-scale pvp arena, they seem to intend people to travel in groups, where condi mesmer isn’t really a problem. The ability of some classes to survive solo roaming is incidental, a consequence of giving them stealth (mesmer, thief, engi), mobility (warrior, etc.), or just all-around awesomeness (d/d ele). They just don’t care about solo roaming specifically, because solo really doesn’t matter, and they intend it to be that way.

So if solo mesmers are actually accomplishing significant things in WvW (retaking keeps, soloing a defended garrison), expect them to first kneecap the ability to do such things in the first place, before they nerf the class’s ability to fight 1v1. No surprises that that’s exactly what they’re doing about mesmers hiding in keeps.

Condi stealth thieves have been a lot rarer to come across than condi stealth mesmers for me, for whatever reason, the one time I did meet one alone I blinked and then saw I had about 6-8 different conditions on me including immobilise before I died a second later, never even saw a character model until I was already dead on the ground, and then only for a second. I can’t even comment if it was lag on my laptop’s part or what haha!

I amn’t referring to anything about why skills/traits should or shouldn’t be changed here, just to clarify, or how Anet should balance things, I don’t have enough experience with the class to make those kinds of statements with any amount of credibility, I was mostly replying to the posts hypothesising on why people hate conditions.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

Some silver lining – as unbelievably shocking as it sounds, it is actually possible to get compliments as a condi mesmer. :o

One from a greatsword mesmer and one from a power warrior after some pretty good “duels”.

I can’t remember the last time receiving compliments when playing condi compared to the endless slew of whining/moaning/hate messages and whispers. I suppose running sword instead of scepter and choosing bountiful disillusionment has its benefits in terms of morale.

I was close to quitting condi come hot but it’s comforting to know it’s not all endless hate.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Embolism.8106

Embolism.8106

I got quite a few “nice Mesmer bunker” comments when I played Condi Chrono, which is funny as IMO it’s much stronger than the typical Mesmer Condi that garners accusations of “condi cancer”.

You would think the constant blocking and blurring while slapping everyone with Confusion and Torment would be more frustrating to fight against, but people seem to appreciate that I’m standing there and taking it rather than teleporting away? I don’t know.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

I got some (polite) hate during the beta. Like a warrior saying “c’m’on you block more than me”.

I also got a very fun hate comment while playing the druid. I am a terrible ranger, and it was my first match as a druid, on stronghold (while I clearly asked no stronghold ), so needless to say I was awful. I was around a fight at some point where an enemy died. I don’t think I did anything to him except a couple of staff AA (on a cleric amulet, so really tickles), he got killed mostly by my teammates. Yet he insulted me saying “druid OP”…
The proof that people call OP anything they don’t understand.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

I got quite a few “nice Mesmer bunker” comments when I played Condi Chrono, which is funny as IMO it’s much stronger than the typical Mesmer Condi that garners accusations of “condi cancer”.

You would think the constant blocking and blurring while slapping everyone with Confusion and Torment would be more frustrating to fight against, but people seem to appreciate that I’m standing there and taking it rather than teleporting away? I don’t know.

Funny, I just got people cursing at me, ah well.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

I’ve found this thread interesting, though with some posters I was a bit unsure which game mode they were referencing with their posts. This post is probably going to attract a lot less attention than for example Mefiq’s is, but thought I’d make it anyway, cos why not.

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

What class do you play?

Not going to accuse or belittle you. When roaming solo you have to account for the fact you will run into groups of players. WvW is a big arena and while it may seem unfair that some classes roam well solo remember that any group will cancel out just about any solo build. So solo player run builds with the capability to disengage and engage easily.

Mesmer does not have strong chase especially condi mesmer. I could get away with satff 2 and some camera work but in terms of chasing I have no chance. So keep that in mind. Unlike thief mesmer mobility is better for a run than a chase. So sitting still wondering what’s going on is a mistake. PU mesmers have strong stealth but generally do not carry inspiration which means there condi management is bad. If you load them they will likely go down.

Thief can just disengage the fight. So can a well played warrior or ranger. Engi can (to a degree) with stealth. DD ele with FGS can not be caught. Of those Ele can directly resist a condi build that doesn’t have a good deal of power. Warrior can out run and fend off most attacks and condis. Thief can clear (some what) with decent stealth application and the right builds (sword, ss, etc.) Engineer has the hardest time dealing with condis but has strong stealth application too (with Kinetic in hand I can actually stealth pretty well vs a non pu mesmer).

Roaming is about who can outrun/think the other player. I out ran some players the other day by mixing teleports and water using no stealth. On engineer I have used juggernaut and rifle to run em for days. Thief can just out run anyone and short bow 5 is the mobility king. If you are solo roaming on a class that can not disengage well then you are running solo at your own risk. When I used to play thief heavily we used to say thieves only die when they overextend. This is true of all classes suited for solo roaming. If you never overextend no one should really be able to catch you (save a smart thief) all by them self. It really isn’t about dueling but out thinking the other guy. If you get hell bent on killing a player and you start waiting around for them or chasing to who knows where that is on you.

Right now imho zerg vs zerg is more of an issue overall that solo roaming imbalances. Simply because 6 out of the 8 classes can do it just fine.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
Hulk Roaming Montages/Build Vids
I always rage but never quit.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Embolism.8106

Embolism.8106

You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

And there goes all your credibility.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: AtomsOrSystems.9420

AtomsOrSystems.9420

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

To be fair, even the bog-standard Sc+T/Staff PU Condi Mes can’t “auto attack” anyone to death. Not unless they’re literally Akitten

IT: “high stacks of torment by auto attacking…” lawl

(edited by AtomsOrSystems.9420)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

common i kill condi mesmer as p/p thief with almost no condi cleanse
and they kill me

pu is harder cause of stealth but just put blind and you will be ok or kill the clones faster

condi mesmer is in the worst position atm compare to other condi class. the problem we got stealth while other dont so ppl still after 3 years dont know how to handle it

i killed a guard with no illusion line at all only with scepter so mesmer are OP? learn not to move with +5 torment and not to use skills with +8 confusion
is that do hard to learn

i do agree that stealth ability of the mesmer is too much but in pvp its great as they cant contest. so i cap the point and lure them by moving out so they get out of stealth to decap and i burst them and they go stealth and all over again while they accomplish nothing till they use MI, torch and than they are vulnerable
and if they kill me than gg for them as i mess with my rotations

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

The problem with PU condi is not that it isn’t supposed to be a thing, it’s that it’s the easiest spec to play in the game, yet quite possibly the hardest spec to fight against.

I really can’t believe people that are coming here trying to make a case about PU condi requiring ‘effort, timing and constant work to get the condis up and keep them up’. I mean, how deep can you fall into your own dreamworld? You can literally keep up high stacks of torment by auto attacking…

As a person who generally can’t play PvE longer then an hour because it’s so dull, I found playing this build to be worse (and easier).

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

To be fair, even the bog-standard Sc+T/Staff PU Condi Mes can’t “auto attack” anyone to death. Not unless they’re literally AkittenIT: “high stacks of torment by auto attacking…” lawl

Agreed – it’s not possible to take that much damage/application from auto attacks.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Rashagar.8349

Rashagar.8349

I’ve found this thread interesting, though with some posters I was a bit unsure which game mode they were referencing with their posts. This post is probably going to attract a lot less attention than for example Mefiq’s is, but thought I’d make it anyway, cos why not.

Speaking from a wvw perspective, I can’t say I hate fighting against condi mesmers so much as it is I hate fighting against such ridiculous levels of stealth. Just because there’s no winning against one in a 1v1 scenario when they jump you while you’re going somewhere. You can possibly outplay one, or fight one off, or get to safety in time, but you have zero chance of killing one, which just isn’t particularly fun to play against, especially when the risk of dying is as high as it is. At the barest hint of an even playing field they just disappear, and then you spend the next 10+ seconds wondering if they went to roam somewhere else or are going to come back to try finish you off now that they’ve reset their hit points and all of your condition removal is still on cooldown (for example). Comparatively, if someone disengages when they start losing by simply using superior mobility it’s fine with me, because at least I know that’s what they’ve done, and I can feel satisfied with myself for successfully fending someone off. That satisfaction doesn’t exist in a fight against one of these kinds of mesmers, because of the 10+ seconds of stress wondering if the fight is really over or not.

What class do you play?

Not going to accuse or belittle you. When roaming solo you have to account for the fact you will run into groups of players. WvW is a big arena and while it may seem unfair that some classes roam well solo remember that any group will cancel out just about any solo build. So solo player run builds with the capability to disengage and engage easily.

Mesmer does not have strong chase especially condi mesmer. I could get away with satff 2 and some camera work but in terms of chasing I have no chance. So keep that in mind. Unlike thief mesmer mobility is better for a run than a chase. So sitting still wondering what’s going on is a mistake. PU mesmers have strong stealth but generally do not carry inspiration which means there condi management is bad. If you load them they will likely go down.

Thief can just disengage the fight. So can a well played warrior or ranger. Engi can (to a degree) with stealth. DD ele with FGS can not be caught. Of those Ele can directly resist a condi build that doesn’t have a good deal of power. Warrior can out run and fend off most attacks and condis. Thief can clear (some what) with decent stealth application and the right builds (sword, ss, etc.) Engineer has the hardest time dealing with condis but has strong stealth application too (with Kinetic in hand I can actually stealth pretty well vs a non pu mesmer).

Roaming is about who can outrun/think the other player. I out ran some players the other day by mixing teleports and water using no stealth. On engineer I have used juggernaut and rifle to run em for days. Thief can just out run anyone and short bow 5 is the mobility king. If you are solo roaming on a class that can not disengage well then you are running solo at your own risk. When I used to play thief heavily we used to say thieves only die when they overextend. This is true of all classes suited for solo roaming. If you never overextend no one should really be able to catch you (save a smart thief) all by them self. It really isn’t about dueling but out thinking the other guy. If you get hell bent on killing a player and you start waiting around for them or chasing to who knows where that is on you.

Right now imho zerg vs zerg is more of an issue overall that solo roaming imbalances. Simply because 6 out of the 8 classes can do it just fine.

Thanks for some of those tips, I hadn’t known about the weak chasing/condi clear capabilities. I’ll have to try abusing that more should this trend continue haha!

Yeah, my wvw roaming mind set was formed during my time with necromancer hehe so, whatever class I’m on these days, if I engage I tend to engage til the end, no matter how bitter it may be. =)

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Out of curiosity, do you find people still react more negatively than expected to playing against you when you play as condi mesmer but without those tools? (not meant in any sort of accusatory tone).

I know this is like a tangential conversation to the OP of this thread but I am curious where this derail leads.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Out of curiosity, do you find people still react more negatively than expected to playing against you when you play as condi mesmer but without those tools? (not meant in any sort of accusatory tone).

I know this is like a tangential conversation to the OP of this thread but I am curious where this derail leads.

Well I think it’s on topic in anycase so no worry about derailing the thread.

Most comments will be hate/moaning anyway – because that is the stigma attached to condi mesmer. Some will just shout “PU cancer” for the hell of it, some will say “condi scrub” and so on – the usual nonsense.

But I believe I have received more positive comments due to build choices – things like “I didn’t expect sword with condi”, to “gg wp mesmer”, “interesting build”, and so on.

Edit: for the record
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfWlsnhy0YRawRNwtGLvGk5KGeNLnwGiGaAyZTA-TJRHwAp3fIZZAAnCABPBAA
I know it’s not the most efficient thing but I enjoy it and who cares about efficiency if you’re having fun.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Mebaru.4513

Mebaru.4513

This topic supposed to discuss condi mesmer problems not how annoying they are, not?
I play PU condi often, while being fun it has a lot of flaws. There’s a lot of builds they can’t really fight well. They are vulnerable to condition pressure or a high damage pressure. DPS is quite low and generally fights are long. They can’t chase well.

For example, I find unload stealth-abusing thieves are much more annoying than all mesmers together

(edited by Mebaru.4513)

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

This topic supposed to discuss condi mesmer problems not how annoying they are, not?

It’s relevant in that unfortunately the (balance) problems can be indirectly caused by qq from irrational hatred/annoyance – ie knee jerk nerfing.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: Sombrero.9204

Sombrero.9204

I think condi mesmer is very balanced actually, it just requires a lot more thinking to build a working build than other build/class Ive tried so far.

Mistrust as it is is not very powerful but combined with the ridiculously op 5th skil of the chronomancer mistrust gets terribly op. If you have just three ennemies packed you use 5 interrupt them twice which lead them to have all 8 stack of confusion for free. When there is 5 ennemies it’s 16 stack with one spell, it’s just ridiculously op in PvE, pretty useful in PvP and probably op aswell in wvw for same reason as pve format.

My ONLY issue with condi mesmer is the fact that perplexity runes are not available in PvP and is THE rune for a good condi mesmer (all the other classes have op choices for runes but not condi mesmer ? really ? unfair !)

For those sceptical feel free to ask me in private my build and try it out.

Are Condi Mesmer not supposed to be a thing?

in Mesmer

Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

Mistrust as it is is not very powerful but combined with the ridiculously op 5th skil of the chronomancer mistrust gets terribly op. If you have just three ennemies packed you use 5 interrupt them twice which lead them to have all 8 stack of confusion for free.

I’m sorry, did you just assume:
1. When you hit 3 people with the same hyper-telegraphed stun, it’ll interrupt all three reliably?
2. When someone gets interrupted and stunned by Tides of Time, you’re at all likely to interrupt them again on the way back?
Because neither of those things is likely.

it’s just ridiculously op in PvE,

Against mender groups yeah. But since breakbar/defiance mobs can’t be interrupted, how does “OP” apply here at all?

pretty useful in PvP and probably op aswell in wvw for same reason as pve format.

This was tested in BWE. Even in WvW, dropping Tides of Time on the enemy zerg, it didn’t seem to have a lot of impact. Possibly because the stun is super-telegraphed, so you don’t actually interrupt many people, more likely because mass cleanses happen every 1-2s.
In sPvP, you are NEVER going to land shield5 on more than 3 people, and probably not even that.

My ONLY issue with condi mesmer is the fact that perplexity runes are not available in PvP and is THE rune for a good condi mesmer (all the other classes have op choices for runes but not condi mesmer ? really ? unfair !)

This is indeed pretty lame. But Perplexity runes will probably get nerfed pretty fast once they get added to spvp b/c of all the qq.