Guild Wars 2

Ok, so my Mesmer runs a 0/0/30/10/30 w/ nightmare runes and a shaman pendant in PvP and I just wreck everyone with little to no effort on my part, where when I play my ranger, or my guardian (granted I’m god awful at guardian) I do not do -nearly- as well…

So would you guys say mesmers are OP? Or do bads just not do well against mesmers? I personally haven’t had many issues against mesmers, but idk…

Thoughts?

PS: maybe it’s just the build? I can and will link the build itself later, the weapon combo is Staff +scepter/torch, heal is mirror, utilities are mirror images, the mantra that dazes, sig of illusions and the elite is mass invis.

mesmer is not OP, if you ask me it has lots of UP skills, mantras being the major sucky utility skills.

the trick about mesmers (especially in sPvP) is knowing how to distinguish between the mesmer and it’s clones, once you’ve figured that you basically have just another caster on your hands.

Can you please put “PvP” into your thread title next time? Thanks. :-)

with this build how do you do any damage? Can you link your build? It doesn’t look like it’s able to provide any significant damage.

Mesmer’s are one of the most punishing classes against people who don’t know what they are doing because of clones. Clones provide a great defense if the person doesn’t know how to tell the difference, but once they can tell the difference mesmer’s aren’t OP at all.

Also you mentioned rangers and guardians as what you are comparing the mesmer to. Rangers are acknowledge as not being in the greatest place. Guardians make great bunkers but they are not known for just killing people.

EvGenius.6208:

with this build how do you do any damage? Can you link your build? It doesn’t look like it’s able to provide any significant damage.

It’s a condi+ shatter build, it doesn’t have that great if -burst- but it has very strong single target and AoE sustain, between poison, burning, bleeding, confusion and interrupts it brings people down.

RapidSausage.4620:

mesmer is not OP, if you ask me it has lots of UP skills, mantras being the major sucky utility skills.

the trick about mesmers (especially in sPvP) is knowing how to distinguish between the mesmer and it’s clones, once you’ve figured that you basically have just another caster on your hands.

Yeah even on my ranger (which many say is UP I don’t see it though) I don’t have issues against mes… I’m thinking it may just be bad players that could figure out where I was with all the staff teleports and clone spawning…

It’s little from column A and a little from column B.

Mesmer is a powerful class, they’re up there with thief and warrior for the ability to set up massive (frequently instant-kill) burst combos.

But they’re also offset by the fact they’re a “weird” class, they don’t behave in a way that fits normal MMO class archetypes. Many players dive into PvP without exploring the mechanics what they’ll be facing and when presented by something as alien as a mesmer have no idea how to respond, leaving themselves wide open to a killing blow.

If you understand what you’re facing, a mesmer is (arguably) just as easy as any other class to drop. Whenever I’ve ended up in a 1 on 1 situation with another mesmer I usually take them down just as fast, if not faster than any other opponent.

Mesmers will always be “OP” to a majority of players. (they’re not)

It’s just the nature of the class. Any class that can make multiple personas of its self, will be deemed op. You could nerf this class into the ground, and people would still complain. Only way to get people to stop complaining would be starting the class from scratch.

Personally I love the Mesmer. Anet did a great job with the profession.

Mesmer is highly dependent on player skill. on paper you could say its UP but a good player can do anything behind a mesmer. Were pretty great at backing up allies too. those clones get a little more confusing when there not the only thing running at you. con effects and aoe boons are always awesome.

Harbinger.8637:

Mesmers will always be “OP” to a majority of players. (they’re not)

It’s just the nature of the class. Any class that can make multiple personas of its self, will be deemed op. You could nerf this class into the ground, and people would still complain. Only way to get people to stop complaining would be starting the class from scratch.

Personally I love the Mesmer. Anet did a great job with the profession.

Oh I agree I LOVE the class mechanic, it’s really fun, and I know in tPvP it’s hard (for me at least) to give an accurate number on how many people are attacking a point.

PLUR.3086:

Mesmer is highly dependent on player skill. on paper you could say its UP but a good player can do anything behind a mesmer. Were pretty great at backing up allies too. those clones get a little more confusing when there not the only thing running at you. con effects and aoe boons are always awesome.

It’s even more confusing when there’s multiple mesmers I remember I was in a 5v5 against a team of all mesmers and it was awful trying to figure out what was happening other then the fact that we were losing…

Durzlla.6295:

PLUR.3086:

Mesmer is highly dependent on player skill. on paper you could say its UP but a good player can do anything behind a mesmer. Were pretty great at backing up allies too. those clones get a little more confusing when there not the only thing running at you. con effects and aoe boons are always awesome.

It’s even more confusing when there’s multiple mesmers I remember I was in a 5v5 against a team of all mesmers and it was awful trying to figure out what was happening other then the fact that we were losing…

tPvP has seen it’s share of 5 players all the same class and it has never been difficult to deal with by a balanced group of players that can recognize the cheese. Try it out sometime and see how far you can actually get. It is quite amusing to see the reaction of random join players but that’s about it. If you make it passed round 1 you’re not likely to go any further. Besides if you’re going to do a 5 man same class cheese team you should go all Guardian.

Durzlla.6295:

PLUR.3086:

Mesmer is highly dependent on player skill. on paper you could say its UP but a good player can do anything behind a mesmer. Were pretty great at backing up allies too. those clones get a little more confusing when there not the only thing running at you. con effects and aoe boons are always awesome.

It’s even more confusing when there’s multiple mesmers I remember I was in a 5v5 against a team of all mesmers and it was awful trying to figure out what was happening other then the fact that we were losing…

make every third attack aoe and watch mesmerx5 melt.

Mesmers are OP everyone you kill are not ‘bads’ kids that play OP classes like to belive its pure skill.

I’m facerolling to great victory on my mesmer, I actually have to try when I’m on my necro to do half as well.

I guess I could drink the coolaid and say man Im really skilled on a mesmer I beat everyone and everything mesmers are not OP im just that good at the class.

Xom.9264:

Mesmers are OP everyone you kill are not ‘bads’ kids that play OP classes like to belive its pure skill.

I’m facerolling to great victory on my mesmer, I actually have to try when I’m on my necro to do half as well.

I guess I could drink the coolaid and say man Im really skilled on a mesmer I beat everyone and everything mesmers are not OP im just that good at the class.

Agreed. I, for instance, stopped playing mesmer in pvp cause it was too boring and easy. Was I really skilled on a mesmer and unskilled on every other proffesion?

Durzlla.6295:

RapidSausage.4620:

mesmer is not OP, if you ask me it has lots of UP skills, mantras being the major sucky utility skills.

the trick about mesmers (especially in sPvP) is knowing how to distinguish between the mesmer and it’s clones, once you’ve figured that you basically have just another caster on your hands.

Yeah even on my ranger (which many say is UP I don’t see it though) I don’t have issues against mes… I’m thinking it may just be bad players that could figure out where I was with all the staff teleports and clone spawning…

I don’t know. My mesmer “Windwoven” has given your ranger issues in tpvp

Shady.3142:

Durzlla.6295:

RapidSausage.4620:

mesmer is not OP, if you ask me it has lots of UP skills, mantras being the major sucky utility skills.

the trick about mesmers (especially in sPvP) is knowing how to distinguish between the mesmer and it’s clones, once you’ve figured that you basically have just another caster on your hands.

Yeah even on my ranger (which many say is UP I don’t see it though) I don’t have issues against mes… I’m thinking it may just be bad players that could figure out where I was with all the staff teleports and clone spawning…

I don’t know. My mesmer “Windwoven” has given your ranger issues in tpvp

Are you sure? Because most mesmers i fight I end up on top, unless they portal their team to gang bang me (which has happened many a times granted) but i don’t consider that a fight with a mesmer but a fight with a team xD

EDIT: The name Windwoven sounds very familiar, i’ve totally fought you a few times at least for me to actually remember that name xD

EDIT2: Here’s the link, i just realized that with the staff i bring EVERY condition but immobilize (granted fear isn’t on demand) and EVERY boon but stability….
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7fl0zaqnRzhGb9IipHBHFicnKkcoecdZ33B;T0Ag2Cro+y8l4L7XuvkftWYswZhdBvFA

If you’re playing sPvP, chances are at least half of the population still struggles with finding the real mesmer and they will get wrecked. Occasionally you’ll find someone more experienced who knows the “tells” and will stick to you like glue.

I wouldn’t say they’re OP, just that somewhat like thieves, they tend to stomp baddies for not understanding the game mechanics.

Jericho.4521:

If you’re playing sPvP, chances are at least half of the population still struggles with finding the real mesmer and they will get wrecked. Occasionally you’ll find someone more experienced who knows the “tells” and will stick to you like glue.

I wouldn’t say they’re OP, just that somewhat like thieves, they tend to stomp baddies for not understanding the game mechanics.

Well i was fighting with my friend and his guild of paid tourney pvpers and was wrecking all of them which is why i decided to make this thread… well at least i -think- they do well in paid tournies i just know he tells me all his armor is from there and i just shrug it off, not sure how believable it is if he goes for my clones 8/10 times….

Durzlla.6295:

Jericho.4521:

If you’re playing sPvP, chances are at least half of the population still struggles with finding the real mesmer and they will get wrecked. Occasionally you’ll find someone more experienced who knows the “tells” and will stick to you like glue.

I wouldn’t say they’re OP, just that somewhat like thieves, they tend to stomp baddies for not understanding the game mechanics.

Well i was fighting with my friend and his guild of paid tourney pvpers and was wrecking all of them which is why i decided to make this thread… well at least i -think- they do well in paid tournies i just know he tells me all his armor is from there and i just shrug it off, not sure how believable it is if he goes for my clones 8/10 times….

The answer is within the title, mine call is the 2nd one: Your setup can be easily countered by keeping a certain distance. The non-issue you probability noticing could be duo their build, mainly close-range with little to no either vitality or toughness, also, I’m assuming that duo the wrongful use of their AoE ability, they simply let you stack more confusion than they can actually bear, thus.. they end killing they self.
..and I would also like to note that duo the recent changes to the mesmer class..
unless they unaware of your presence, letting use your core skill, is another symptom of why I’ve chosen this answer.

Tekla.2139:

Durzlla.6295:

Jericho.4521:

If you’re playing sPvP, chances are at least half of the population still struggles with finding the real mesmer and they will get wrecked. Occasionally you’ll find someone more experienced who knows the “tells” and will stick to you like glue.

I wouldn’t say they’re OP, just that somewhat like thieves, they tend to stomp baddies for not understanding the game mechanics.

Well i was fighting with my friend and his guild of paid tourney pvpers and was wrecking all of them which is why i decided to make this thread… well at least i -think- they do well in paid tournies i just know he tells me all his armor is from there and i just shrug it off, not sure how believable it is if he goes for my clones 8/10 times….

The answer is within the title, mine call is the 2nd one: Your setup can be easily countered by keeping a certain distance. The non-issue you probability noticing could be duo their build, mainly close-range with little to no either vitality or toughness, also, I’m asuming that duo the wrongful use of their AoE ability, they simply let you stack more confusion than they can actually bear, thus.. they end killing they self.
..and I would also like to note that duo the recent changes to the mesmer class..
unless they unaware of your presence, letting use your core skill, is another symptom of why I’ve chosen this answer.

I don’t see how my build would be easily countered by distance, but i totally know what you’re talking about, they were mostly melee ranged builds or single target builds (a simple spawning a clone can destroy a single target builds damage because it changes their target) so it’s likely my build just did well against theirs?

And it actually turned out that a majority of my damage was from burning and bleeding, confusion was in there, but it wasn’t as high as those two.

You can shut down the entire mesmer class now with simple dodges. I fail to see how they could possibly be op in their current state.

Aberrant.6749:

You can shut down the entire mesmer class now with simple dodges. I fail to see how they could possibly be op in their current state.

Yeah, i think the thread has essentially decided they were just bad, mesmer isn’t even my main and i don’t see them as OP, i think the reason a lot of people think they’re OP is because of the whole “Mind kitten” aspect of the prof

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah, i think the thread has essentially decided they were just bad, mesmer isn’t even my main and i don’t see them as OP, i think the reason a lot of people think they’re OP is because of the whole “Mind kitten” aspect of the prof

It’s pathetic for anyone to complain about mes at this point. We have major drawbacks that NO other class has to deal with… and people still complain. That just shows it’s their unwillingness to learn about the other classes and how to fight them… instead it seems most will just re-roll to another class, complain about their own, and call for nerfs on whatever beats… then the devs listen to those people -.-

Aberrant.6749:

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah, i think the thread has essentially decided they were just bad, mesmer isn’t even my main and i don’t see them as OP, i think the reason a lot of people think they’re OP is because of the whole “Mind kitten” aspect of the prof

It’s pathetic for anyone to complain about mes at this point. We have major drawbacks that NO other class has to deal with… and people still complain. That just shows it’s their unwillingness to learn about the other classes and how to fight them… instead it seems most will just re-roll to another class, complain about their own, and call for nerfs on whatever beats… then the devs listen to those people -.-

Hey that sounds exactly like what i’ve heard in the ranger forums!! Personally i don’t notice any issues with mesmer, it has issues where if you break the clones faster then you can put it up that the survivability is pretty much destroyed… but other then that i haven’t seen many issues.

Durzlla.6295:

Aberrant.6749:

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah, i think the thread has essentially decided they were just bad, mesmer isn’t even my main and i don’t see them as OP, i think the reason a lot of people think they’re OP is because of the whole “Mind kitten” aspect of the prof

It’s pathetic for anyone to complain about mes at this point. We have major drawbacks that NO other class has to deal with… and people still complain. That just shows it’s their unwillingness to learn about the other classes and how to fight them… instead it seems most will just re-roll to another class, complain about their own, and call for nerfs on whatever beats… then the devs listen to those people -.-

Hey that sounds exactly like what i’ve heard in the ranger forums!! Personally i don’t notice any issues with mesmer, it has issues where if you break the clones faster then you can put it up that the survivability is pretty much destroyed… but other then that i haven’t seen many issues.

Other than the major damage bugs, multi hitting attacks being countered by a single dodge/block/blind (blinds arn’t even removed half the time after the failed phantom summon), 2 chances to avoid every phantom attack (on summon and once they attack), and the 20+ other major bugs we’ve had since launch… yea… no issues…

Aberrant.6749:

Durzlla.6295:

Aberrant.6749:

Durzlla.6295:

Yeah, i think the thread has essentially decided they were just bad, mesmer isn’t even my main and i don’t see them as OP, i think the reason a lot of people think they’re OP is because of the whole “Mind kitten” aspect of the prof

It’s pathetic for anyone to complain about mes at this point. We have major drawbacks that NO other class has to deal with… and people still complain. That just shows it’s their unwillingness to learn about the other classes and how to fight them… instead it seems most will just re-roll to another class, complain about their own, and call for nerfs on whatever beats… then the devs listen to those people -.-

Hey that sounds exactly like what i’ve heard in the ranger forums!! Personally i don’t notice any issues with mesmer, it has issues where if you break the clones faster then you can put it up that the survivability is pretty much destroyed… but other then that i haven’t seen many issues.

Other than the major damage bugs, multi hitting attacks being countered by a single dodge/block/blind (blinds arn’t even removed half the time after the failed phantom summon), 2 chances to avoid every phantom attack (on summon and once they attack), and the 20+ other major bugs we’ve had since launch… yea… no issues…

Well with the whole phantasm thing they kinda sit around until destroyed, so it kinda makes sense that they made it so they had 2 chances to block it… and i’ve never been able to dodge an entire multi hit attack by any prof, trust me, i’ve tried… blocks are different, there’s some blocks that can block for an entire duration, in which case it makes sense they block an entire multi hit attack…

Durzlla.6295:

Tekla.2139:

Durzlla.6295:

Jericho.4521:

If you’re playing sPvP, chances are at least half of the population still struggles with finding the real mesmer and they will get wrecked. Occasionally you’ll find someone more experienced who knows the “tells” and will stick to you like glue.

I wouldn’t say they’re OP, just that somewhat like thieves, they tend to stomp baddies for not understanding the game mechanics.

Well i was fighting with my friend and his guild of paid tourney pvpers and was wrecking all of them which is why i decided to make this thread… well at least i -think- they do well in paid tournies i just know he tells me all his armor is from there and i just shrug it off, not sure how believable it is if he goes for my clones 8/10 times….

The answer is within the title, mine call is the 2nd one: Your setup can be easily countered by keeping a certain distance. The non-issue you probability noticing could be duo their build, mainly close-range with little to no either vitality or toughness, also, I’m asuming that duo the wrongful use of their AoE ability, they simply let you stack more confusion than they can actually bear, thus.. they end killing they self.
..and I would also like to note that duo the recent changes to the mesmer class..
unless they unaware of your presence, letting use your core skill, is another symptom of why I’ve chosen this answer.

I don’t see how my build would be easily countered by distance, but i totally know what you’re talking about, they were mostly melee ranged builds or single target builds (a simple spawning a clone can destroy a single target builds damage because it changes their target) so it’s likely my build just did well against theirs?

And it actually turned out that a majority of my damage was from burning and bleeding, confusion was in there, but it wasn’t as high as those two.

Even if both’s torch and scepter are cosidered ranged, in mine view, they’re skill are in fact optimized for the “bunker” type build.
You rely on having the opponent as close as you can to be effective duo the delay it take for both’s, you and your armies to actually accomplish both’s counter and attack.
This is why, confusion and retaliation have a such really short window time and that’s also why this opportunity would be rendered usless by a certain imposed delay.

Durzlla.6295:

Well with the whole phantasm thing they kinda sit around until destroyed, so it kinda makes sense that they made it so they had 2 chances to block it… and i’ve never been able to dodge an entire multi hit attack by any prof, trust me, i’ve tried… blocks are different, there’s some blocks that can block for an entire duration, in which case it makes sense they block an entire multi hit attack…

Phantoms right now have the drawbacks of both summons and attacks and the benefits of neither. They can be canceled on creation in many ways, killed (with 1-2 normal attacks, thus denying our resource and many traits), and don’t proc sigils. You can even stop the mesmer from summoning up defensive phantoms at all.

I’m fine with it if they want to make them either attacks (which they clearly aren’t, but I could deal with it) OR summons. Hell, put a self destruct timer on them instead and I would be fine with that too…. but atm it’s all messed up.

Mesmer has full trait lines devoted to phantoms which are very very easily denied now.

Also I’ve personally dodged and seen other people dodge the izerker spin attack fully before this patch. There are some others you can fully dodge as well such as the thief’s sneak attack. But now vs mesmer you just need to dodge when the mesmer loudly broadcasts when they are going to do summon with their animation and none of the multi hitting phantoms will even appear at all. With other classes you still have the chance of hitting other people in the line/area of attack and they aren’t totally denied a major resource on top of that.

Sorry but you people are nuts, actually think one of the strongest pvp classes in the game is broken….. All because you had to learn to play by the same rules as other classes.

Let it go you sound like babies focus on other things because you will never get god mode back. Now you have to pay attention like everyone else does, deal with it.

I play 4 classes… Thief, Ele, Eng, Mes. Mes has many issues that the others don’t. You’ll kill baddies with mes still… yea… but you can do that on any class. Anyone worth a salt will just dodge the phantom summons when they see those animations. I shut down phantoms constantly with my other classes and it’s ridiculously easy to do so after the last patch. Keep on trolling though…

Well if you consider stronger than majority of the classes (more than half of the classes), i would say they are possibly OP. Imo mesmers bring alot to the table that some classes do not have the capability of doing. They are one of the best duelist, have great burst, huge variety of utilities and can support their team pretty effectively without having to sacrifice a thing. Why do you think they are becoming more and more popular? Of coarse people on this forum may not just admit it because they play mesmers themselves, but i also play a mesmer and i sometimes do feel like the class is pretty strong (i didnt say OP).

Mesmer is tied for most played along with Guard and Necro for me in tPvP and Hotjoin.

It’s the only class without a true hard counter. Thieves come to a full stop against bunkers, warriors have trouble with anything that kites remotely well. Condition specs should always fall to Necros and so forth. But there’s nothing in the game that comes remotely close to checking Mesmers.

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs, for most other classes you could count at three max, one really viable and others just effective. For the Mesmer shatter is possible the most “OP” one, but that doesn’t mean any of the other builds are lacking.

The class design in itself is really slippery, like Thieves they can get away with building full on glass if you’re decent at actively avoiding damage. They have stealth too (albeit more limited) but also the huge advantage of really good ranged. Not to mention, distortion effects on Blurred Frenzy is bounds better than Pistol Whip evade or any other channel swing shindig skill. If you’re a shatter build, you’ll always immobilize them before your burst combo and unless they have a condition removal, they can’t peel. You can’t fear a Mesmer away like you would a Pistol Whip thief or 100b Warrior mid channel.

They also have the lowest CDs on a large number of stun breaks and better iterations of other class’ skills like Blink > Lightning Flash, Null Field > Wells.

Then you get to the elites, even though Time Warp is the best elite, Moa is still bounds better than a lot of what other classes can utilize, most classes can only dream for their elites to have such game changing consequences as Mesmer elites.

Mesmers are also really self sufficient, unlike some specs who play better when supported (Warriors), Mesmers are great at doing whatever they’re doing AND bringing unique support to others at the same time.

All of these points while not OP by themselves adds up to a lot and sets this class ahead of all classes right now in PvP. Yes, Mesmers are OP.

Lumines.3916:

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs

This made me lol.

Mes is very limited right now. Staff+sword/pistol or focus. That’s it.

Scepter, sword offhand, and torch suck… and GS is bugged (mind stab will continue to suck even after they fix the zerk bug as well… not to mention the bug where wave doesn’t push back close up people).

Yes they are. Their mechanics are unlike any other class, hence making them unacceptable. Argue all you want, but there are reasons the Contra VS Donkey Kong game was never released.

Aberrant.6749:

Lumines.3916:

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs

This made me lol.

Mes is very limited right now. Staff+sword/pistol or focus. That’s it.

Scepter, sword offhand, and torch suck… and GS is bugged (mind stab will continue to suck even after they fix the zerk bug as well… not to mention the bug where wave doesn’t push back close up people).

Carry on rationalizing however you want to, won’t change what’s factual. Mesmers have shatter, phantasm, and condition builds going for them. They have defensive builds though its not as popular and you probably want another class for that usually. Still Mesmers can do it really well.

Classes like Necro and Ranger? Conditions or go home. Warriors? Outside of their burst, no one wants them as Guardians bunker better. Elementalists? You only see defensive/support ones out. Engis? Don’t remember the time I last saw one w/o Bomb kit.

You may be using similar weapon set ups in a lot of builds, but there’s way more freedom and viable traits scattered in all lines compared to most other classes.

Phantasm builds took a big hit recently, but still function well if you’re working in a melee build.

However, the reason why your’re doing well is that conditions get underestimated pretty heavily in sPvP. Yes, mesmer has great distraction strenght against bad players, but good players often neglect condition damage as well in favor of stronger burst, and even bunker classes tend to underestimate the strength of specific status effects (ahem confusion) in the longer term.

So, no, mesmer is not overpowered. Condition damage typically goes unconquered in everything but specific bunker builds. Additionally, mesmers are hard to track due to having a decent number of builds.

Lumines.3916:

Carry on rationalizing however you want to, won’t change what’s factual. Mesmers have shatter, phantasm, and condition builds going for them.

Mesmers have phantasm builds going for them right now? Just… wow… I think I’m done here.

All dat 7k total shatter+blurred frenzy instakill burst, plz don’t nerf

Aberrant.6749:

Lumines.3916:

Carry on rationalizing however you want to, won’t change what’s factual. Mesmers have shatter, phantasm, and condition builds going for them.

Mesmers have phantasm builds going for them right now? Just… wow… I think I’m done here.

Not everything revolves around sPvP where an enemy can jukedoge a phantasm.

Provided a Mesmer is carefully summoning and placing their phantasems, it’s still quite possible to use them in PVE effectively. Yes, it’s buggy and still needs fixing but once summoned they don’t dispawn if their attacks are dodged or blocked, only if the summon itself is dodged or blocked.

My biggest gripe is that they didn’t adjust the timers back down again and we still have the inflated timers even though our summons are more easily defended against. It’s overcompensation at this point and we deserve to have shorter timers now.

There are a few select trait/build setups that need toning down, because they are still OP, but mesmer is not conceptually OP as a whole.

Lumines.3916:

Mesmer is tied for most played along with Guard and Necro for me in tPvP and Hotjoin.

It’s the only class without a true hard counter. Thieves come to a full stop against bunkers, warriors have trouble with anything that kites remotely well. Condition specs should always fall to Necros and so forth. But there’s nothing in the game that comes remotely close to checking Mesmers.

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs, for most other classes you could count at three max, one really viable and others just effective. For the Mesmer shatter is possible the most “OP” one, but that doesn’t mean any of the other builds are lacking.

The class design in itself is really slippery, like Thieves they can get away with building full on glass if you’re decent at actively avoiding damage. They have stealth too (albeit more limited) but also the huge advantage of really good ranged. Not to mention, distortion effects on Blurred Frenzy is bounds better than Pistol Whip evade or any other channel swing shindig skill. If you’re a shatter build, you’ll always immobilize them before your burst combo and unless they have a condition removal, they can’t peel. You can’t fear a Mesmer away like you would a Pistol Whip thief or 100b Warrior mid channel.

They also have the lowest CDs on a large number of stun breaks and better iterations of other class’ skills like Blink > Lightning Flash, Null Field > Wells.

Then you get to the elites, even though Time Warp is the best elite, Moa is still bounds better than a lot of what other classes can utilize, most classes can only dream for their elites to have such game changing consequences as Mesmer elites.

Mesmers are also really self sufficient, unlike some specs who play better when supported (Warriors), Mesmers are great at doing whatever they’re doing AND bringing unique support to others at the same time.

All of these points while not OP by themselves adds up to a lot and sets this class ahead of all classes right now in PvP. Yes, Mesmers are OP.

I disagree with nearly everything you have said.

In WvW, the simple test whether you play well is how you do against your own class.

The advanced test is realizing a 1v1 heavy setup is overkill in all but the most dead hours of the night.

Lumines.3916:

Aberrant.6749:

Lumines.3916:

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs

This made me lol.

Mes is very limited right now. Staff+sword/pistol or focus. That’s it.

Scepter, sword offhand, and torch suck… and GS is bugged (mind stab will continue to suck even after they fix the zerk bug as well… not to mention the bug where wave doesn’t push back close up people).

Carry on rationalizing however you want to, won’t change what’s factual. Mesmers have shatter, phantasm, and condition builds going for them.

If you can not completely shut down and destroy a phantasm build mesmer you are simply not a good player in pvp.

Phantasms are summoned with easily seen “tell” animations and there are multiple ways, once a mesmer starts summoning a phantasm, to deny them that summon and put that skill on cooldown. If the mesmer does somehow manage to summon a phantasm, you can still dodge the phantasms attack as well.

In it’s current state, a phantasm mesmer build is one of the easiest builds in the game of any class to completely shut down.

Lumines.3916:

Mesmer is tied for most played along with Guard and Necro for me in tPvP and Hotjoin.

It’s the only class without a true hard counter. Thieves come to a full stop against bunkers, warriors have trouble with anything that kites remotely well. Condition specs should always fall to Necros and so forth. But there’s nothing in the game that comes remotely close to checking Mesmers.

Mesmers unlike a lot of classes also have a much bigger variety of viable specs, for most other classes you could count at three max, one really viable and others just effective. For the Mesmer shatter is possible the most “OP” one, but that doesn’t mean any of the other builds are lacking.

The class design in itself is really slippery, like Thieves they can get away with building full on glass if you’re decent at actively avoiding damage. They have stealth too (albeit more limited) but also the huge advantage of really good ranged. Not to mention, distortion effects on Blurred Frenzy is bounds better than Pistol Whip evade or any other channel swing shindig skill. If you’re a shatter build, you’ll always immobilize them before your burst combo and unless they have a condition removal, they can’t peel. You can’t fear a Mesmer away like you would a Pistol Whip thief or 100b Warrior mid channel.

They also have the lowest CDs on a large number of stun breaks and better iterations of other class’ skills like Blink > Lightning Flash, Null Field > Wells.

Then you get to the elites, even though Time Warp is the best elite, Moa is still bounds better than a lot of what other classes can utilize, most classes can only dream for their elites to have such game changing consequences as Mesmer elites.

Mesmers are also really self sufficient, unlike some specs who play better when supported (Warriors), Mesmers are great at doing whatever they’re doing AND bringing unique support to others at the same time.

All of these points while not OP by themselves adds up to a lot and sets this class ahead of all classes right now in PvP. Yes, Mesmers are OP.

I also disagree with a lot of your points here. You’re underselling these other classes and bolstering the mesmer. If that’s your opinion, then fine. You find the mesmer OP. For anyone else…

Facing a Mesmer is a mind game and the fact that you can’t simply rely on your auto target to follow them throws many players off. Like when a thief stealths and you have to think about where it’s going to hit you from, you have to watch a mesmer in order to discover which is the real one. Unlike a thief, you can see the mesmer (for the majority of the fight at least :P) so you have an easier time figuring them out. A mesmer is only OP if you’re letting them mess with your head.

As for the viable builds, just no!. Like every class, our abilities need to have another look all the bugs. A condition-mancer is not the only build for a necromancer. It is a powerful build until you meet anything with mass condition removal but it’s not all the class has. A warrior does not have to be the 100blades/frenzy setup to succeed and a skilled warrior (probably best not to use this setup though) can do just as well against a larger group as a mesmer.

We are a class in which all 3 elites can be useful to different users, but other classes have good elites too. Thieves have dagger storm and thieves guild, engineers get supply drop (2 second stun is fantastic!), Necromancers have Plague Cloud and Lich Form…I think this makes my point.

Also, your later snipe at taking a guardian over a warrior for anything but burst? I normally run wvwvw with a Greatsword/shout warrior and I’d take him into an outnumbered fight over a bunker guardian any day. Not only will he terrify them by not using a frenzied 100 blades, he’ll be buffing me as I mess with their head.

darkrequiem.6258:

I also disagree with a lot of your points here. You’re underselling these other classes and bolstering the mesmer. If that’s your opinion, then fine. You find the mesmer OP. For anyone else…

Facing a Mesmer is a mind game and the fact that you can’t simply rely on your auto target to follow them throws many players off. Like when a thief stealths and you have to think about where it’s going to hit you from, you have to watch a mesmer in order to discover which is the real one. Unlike a thief, you can see the mesmer (for the majority of the fight at least :P) so you have an easier time figuring them out. A mesmer is only OP if you’re letting them mess with your head.

As for the viable builds, just no!. Like every class, our abilities need to have another look all the bugs. A condition-mancer is not the only build for a necromancer. It is a powerful build until you meet anything with mass condition removal but it’s not all the class has. A warrior does not have to be the 100blades/frenzy setup to succeed and a skilled warrior (probably best not to use this setup though) can do just as well against a larger group as a mesmer.

We are a class in which all 3 elites can be useful to different users, but other classes have good elites too. Thieves have dagger storm and thieves guild, engineers get supply drop (2 second stun is fantastic!), Necromancers have Plague Cloud and Lich Form…I think this makes my point.

Also, your later snipe at taking a guardian over a warrior for anything but burst? I normally run wvwvw with a Greatsword/shout warrior and I’d take him into an outnumbered fight over a bunker guardian any day. Not only will he terrify them by not using a frenzied 100 blades, he’ll be buffing me as I mess with their head.

The mesmer is not really being bolstered; it’s one of the most universally viable professions in the game right now.

Facing the mesmer is not simply a mindgame. Players who are experts at picking out the real mesmer still don’t have a really good chance when bugged phantasms are stacking 20+ confusion on a build that hardly shatters. Signet of Ilusions probably has the strongest passive of all signets in the game because illusions gain pretty much all of your stats except vitality, making them unrealistic targets, especially when you are facing a phantasm mesmer. Nevermind the fact that a mesmer stacking toughness/healing/precision condition damage can stack almost constant regeneration/protection through nothing but passive effects gained through traits via illusions that are not realistic targets during a fight if he has specced the right way.

High crit chance+toughness mesmers have such a ridiculous advantage over most professions that it’s really laughable, especially since illusions do not have a chance to bleed on crit when you invest in Dueling; they automatically bleed. There’s so much that mesmers have become accustomed to that any nerfs will send them into ragefits for weeks at a time.

There’s more to the mesmer that’s broken than this, but I figured you might want an example.

Vendris.4201:

If you can not completely shut down and destroy a phantasm build mesmer you are simply not a good player in pvp.

Phantasms are summoned with easily seen “tell” animations and there are multiple ways, once a mesmer starts summoning a phantasm, to deny them that summon and put that skill on cooldown. If the mesmer does somehow manage to summon a phantasm, you can still dodge the phantasms attack as well.

In it’s current state, a phantasm mesmer build is one of the easiest builds in the game of any class to completely shut down.

The fact is that most mesmers are simply not good players; the profession doesn’t really encourage skillful play when half of the stuff is given to you. Those that have uncovered the truly powerful specs are not going to be easily denied, which leads me to believe that you just haven’t faced a really good player yet.

Xom.9264:

Mesmers are OP everyone you kill are not ‘bads’ kids that play OP classes like to belive its pure skill.

I’m facerolling to great victory on my mesmer, I actually have to try when I’m on my necro to do half as well.

I guess I could drink the coolaid and say man Im really skilled on a mesmer I beat everyone and everything mesmers are not OP im just that good at the class.

Could be that you aren’t exceptional on your necro. I still find it doubtful you actually have a mesmer since I see you trolling every thread, making outrageous claims, while have a rather poor grasp of the mechanics of the profession.

Xom.9264:

Mesmers are OP everyone you kill are not ‘bads’ kids that play OP classes like to belive its pure skill.

I’m facerolling to great victory on my mesmer, I actually have to try when I’m on my necro to do half as well.

I guess I could drink the coolaid and say man Im really skilled on a mesmer I beat everyone and everything mesmers are not OP im just that good at the class.

I’m gonna have to agree here. I played Mesmer for like the first month and its like driving with cruise control. Played over 300 games and never really found it that challenging its definitely much much easier and doesn’t take much effort to achieve success. I main engineer now and I love kit switching and what not

Good thing everything is exactly the same as it was on launch. All abilities perform identically; no players have learned anything.