Guild Wars 2

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

I think our damage is fine for LW content, it can just take a while to kill some things due to us being forced to choose between burst or sustained damage. But I highly doubt we will receive any large damage buffs due to our incredibly party support with alacrity :/

OriOri.8724:

I highly doubt we will receive any large damage buffs due to our incredibly party support with alacrity :/

I cant understand why it is so hard to see the need of a dps boost on mesmer.

Even if you consider perma alacrity+quickness:
warrior buffs > druid buffs > mesmer buffs (dps wise on a dps class).

The personal dps of the same builds follow the same pattern:
ps warrior dps> druid dps > mesmer dps

Again the same pattern applies with how easy this classes can mantain/reapply their buffs.

And if you consider the rest of utility the same classes can also bring in the very same builds:

- warrior brings tons of cc ( and can play condi variant if needed to condi bosses)

- druid brings tons of heal(translating in dps uptime or +10%dps to scholar users) and can still bring fury and protection(translating again in dps uptime) and can play condi variant if needed for condi bosses

- mesmer not really too much to add other than gimmick distortion share and boon copy with signet( that is irrelevant to other boons but quickness, i guess it can help on disorganized groups) and a bit of other utilities that all classes also bring.

FJSAMA.2867:

Even if you consider perma alacrity+quickness:
warrior buffs > druid buffs > mesmer buffs (dps wise on a dps class).

The personal dps of the same builds follow the same pattern:
ps warrior dps> druid dps > mesmer dps

Again the same pattern applies with how easy this classes can mantain/reapply their buffs.

And if you consider the rest of utility the same classes can also bring in the very same builds:

- warrior brings tons of cc ( and can play condi variant if needed to condi bosses)

- druid brings tons of heal(translating in dps uptime or +10%dps to scholar users) and can still bring fury and protection(translating again in dps uptime) and can play condi variant if needed for condi bosses

- mesmer not really too much to add other than gimmick distortion share and boon copy with signet( that is irrelevant to other boons but quickness, i guess it can help on disorganized groups) and a bit of other utilities that all classes also bring.

Right now the only Mesmer build with a somewhat “decent DPS” is Scepter/Pistol (with focus on Bleeding). And it’s single target only… meanwhile, other classes have alternatives with better damage (and AoE).

This is why I think our class needs a complete overhaul.

FJSAMA.2867:

OriOri.8724:

I highly doubt we will receive any large damage buffs due to our incredibly party support with alacrity :/

I cant understand why it is so hard to see the need of a dps boost on mesmer.

Even if you consider perma alacrity+quickness:
warrior buffs > druid buffs > mesmer buffs (dps wise on a dps class).

The personal dps of the same builds follow the same pattern:
ps warrior dps> druid dps > mesmer dps

Again the same pattern applies with how easy this classes can mantain/reapply their buffs.

And if you consider the rest of utility the same classes can also bring in the very same builds:

- warrior brings tons of cc ( and can play condi variant if needed to condi bosses)

- druid brings tons of heal(translating in dps uptime or +10%dps to scholar users) and can still bring fury and protection(translating again in dps uptime) and can play condi variant if needed for condi bosses

- mesmer not really too much to add other than gimmick distortion share and boon copy with signet( that is irrelevant to other boons but quickness, i guess it can help on disorganized groups) and a bit of other utilities that all classes also bring.

I want a DPS boost on mesmer, I really do. But where we are right now is a good enough DPS to do LW content is all I said about that.

But I think you missed my point. Solo play, yes alacrity does just about nothing for us DPS wise because our base DPS is just so low. Alacrity could be unnerfed back to its 66% increase in CD speed, but our base DPS is so low it still would hardly make a difference compared to what other classes can put out. But the thing with alacrity is its a party wide buff. Perma alacrity is what, a 25% increase in party DPS? Considering we bring that to the table I think ANet actually wants our damage to be low because, and I agree with them here, a class that can increase a parties damage by ~25% shouldn’t also be dealing a huge amount of personal DPS on top of that. Could our DPS be buffed? Absolutely! Should it be buffed? Again absolutely! But to reiterate what I said initially, I highly doubt it will be buffed by any significant amount.

In theory its all fine, but right now we have the others 2 “buffer” classes giving higher dps increase buffs and also having higher self dps.
Heck warrior buffs give ~ 20-30% more dps than chrono buffs and having almost 2x more personal dps.
Its so easy to confirm. Go golem tests with ele do the same rotation with raid wide buffs and then without each class buffs individually and check how much dps you lost doing it.
Then if you want, consider each “buffer” personal dps + additional utility + ease of buffing.
Its naive to go with math on paper when you can test on reality. Like saying current alacrity gives 25% dps and old one gave 66% dps increase like a dev said.

And sure its fine to kill sw mordrems and hot maps mobs bursting them with mesmer every ~12s BUT as long as they are normal ones. It doesnt take too much for them to upscale to veterans and then your burst wont work and the real pain starts… Sure mesmer’s great to min max raid comps. But i can safely say:

Mesmer is the most painful class for solo play like maps and story, no doubt.

So i question your reiteration, why not? The only answer i have is the all-time answer for many mesmer things: “Because mesmer…”.

OriOri.8724:

FJSAMA.2867:

OriOri.8724:

I highly doubt we will receive any large damage buffs due to our incredibly party support with alacrity :/

I cant understand why it is so hard to see the need of a dps boost on mesmer.

Even if you consider perma alacrity+quickness:
warrior buffs > druid buffs > mesmer buffs (dps wise on a dps class).

The personal dps of the same builds follow the same pattern:
ps warrior dps> druid dps > mesmer dps

Again the same pattern applies with how easy this classes can mantain/reapply their buffs.

And if you consider the rest of utility the same classes can also bring in the very same builds:

- warrior brings tons of cc ( and can play condi variant if needed to condi bosses)

- druid brings tons of heal(translating in dps uptime or +10%dps to scholar users) and can still bring fury and protection(translating again in dps uptime) and can play condi variant if needed for condi bosses

- mesmer not really too much to add other than gimmick distortion share and boon copy with signet( that is irrelevant to other boons but quickness, i guess it can help on disorganized groups) and a bit of other utilities that all classes also bring.

I want a DPS boost on mesmer, I really do. But where we are right now is a good enough DPS to do LW content is all I said about that.

But I think you missed my point. Solo play, yes alacrity does just about nothing for us DPS wise because our base DPS is just so low. Alacrity could be unnerfed back to its 66% increase in CD speed, but our base DPS is so low it still would hardly make a difference compared to what other classes can put out. But the thing with alacrity is its a party wide buff. Perma alacrity is what, a 25% increase in party DPS? Considering we bring that to the table I think ANet actually wants our damage to be low because, and I agree with them here, a class that can increase a parties damage by ~25% shouldn’t also be dealing a huge amount of personal DPS on top of that. Could our DPS be buffed? Absolutely! Should it be buffed? Again absolutely! But to reiterate what I said initially, I highly doubt it will be buffed by any significant amount.

Just so you know, permanent alacrity reducing cool downs by 25% does not translate to a 25% dps boost. It has a lot to do with which classes you’re buffing, the skills they’re using and cast/aftercasts along with original cool down.

A good example is thief, it gains nothing from alacrity as its rotation is pretty much 11111 on staff with dodging mixed in. Quickeness however has a much more profound effect due to how it reduces cast/aftercasts of the auto attack which the chrono brings in buckets.

I think Nike made a raid guide on team comp and what he said was that warrior and Druid buffs were so good it was worth making sure everyone kept them up, Mesmer wasn’t except for the quickness which they can keep on a full raid squad with just 1.

Only takes an ill thought out nerf to say signet of inspiration and I dare say mesmer would be dead for raids most likely.

FJSAMA.2867:

In theory its all fine, but right now we have the others 2 “buffer” classes giving higher dps increase buffs and also having higher self dps.
Heck warrior buffs give ~ 20-30% more dps than chrono buffs and having almost 2x more personal dps.
Its so easy to confirm. Go golem tests with ele do the same rotation with raid wide buffs and then without each class buffs individually and check how much dps you lost doing it.
Then if you want, consider each “buffer” personal dps + additional utility + ease of buffing.
Its naive to go with math on paper when you can test on reality. Like saying current alacrity gives 25% dps and old one gave 66% dps increase like a dev said.

And sure its fine to kill sw mordrems and hot maps mobs bursting them with mesmer every ~12s BUT as long as they are normal ones. It doesnt take too much for them to upscale to veterans and then your burst wont work and the real pain starts… Sure mesmer’s great to min max raid comps. But i can safely say:

Mesmer is the most painful class for solo play like maps and story, no doubt.

So i question your reiteration, why not? The only answer i have is the all-time answer for many mesmer things: “Because mesmer…”.

I say again, I never said I don’t want a buff to our personal DPS. I think we really need one actually. I merely said that I doubt we will be getting one. Why do you guys keep insisting I am arguing against a DPS buff?

@Apharma thanks. I don’t deal with too much theorycrafting so I was mainly going off of just reduced cooldowns and how many more times you can cast your skills in a given time frame

Our current dps good enough for LW content, yes OriOri….but you seem to miss the point that it’s still miserable. Can it be completed? Sure. Will you hate yourself by the end of it? Yep.

The Exalted Trial took me 4 tries alone because I couldn’t kill the dragon minons fast enough. In full zerker gear.

Ananeos.4587:

The Exalted Trial took me 4 tries alone because I couldn’t kill the dragon minons fast enough. In full zerker gear.

Try doing the timed LS2 achievement in the Durmand Priory library as a mesmer. It’s hell.

Fay.2357:

Our current dps good enough for LW content, yes OriOri….but you seem to miss the point that it’s still miserable. Can it be completed? Sure. Will you hate yourself by the end of it? Yep.

For the last time. I want a DPS boost. I honestly cannot understand why you guys think I don’t want one.

Literally all that I said was that I doubt we will get one. That doesn’t mean I don’t want one. Christ.

Fye.7594:

This is why I think our class needs a complete overhaul.

Agreed. Hell I’d go as far as say that any time spent on balancing the current setup is a waste, virtually nothing should be kept the way it is in a rework. As in, effectively the game needs to lose an entire class, and gain an entirely different one which just happens to share the name. :S

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

Our current dps good enough for LW content, yes OriOri….but you seem to miss the point that it’s still miserable. Can it be completed? Sure. Will you hate yourself by the end of it? Yep.

For the last time. I want a DPS boost. I honestly cannot understand why you guys think I don’t want one.

Literally all that I said was that I doubt we will get one. That doesn’t mean I don’t want one. Christ.

The major point of your first post was actually “our dps is fine”.

OriOri.8724:

I think our damage is fine for LW content, it can just take a while to kill some things due to us being forced to choose between burst or sustained damage.

Our dps isn’t fine. This is the point.

My big wish would be that illusions don’t despawn until we’re out of combat, that illusion generation is shaved from traits and put into the weapons themselves, and that phantasms are just illusionary summons that do bigger spike of damage but despawn after doing the attack so you don’t have 3 up.

In turn, phantasm skill cooldowns could be reduced to the cooldowns of 100 blades (6.5-8 seconds) as our big hitter skills. They probably would need a cast time reduction though, it’s pretty much impossible to hit a thief with a 1 sec cast time on top of the illusion’s animation anyways.

We would scale much better as our autoattack and ability damage like Blurred Frenzy (which needs to go up to at least the damage of a pistol shot, which thieves can spam 3 times and theirs stuns) could go up.

Increase our sustained pressure and scaling damage so we’re not just some mindwrack one hit wonder that’s either doing that big burst or failing to land it and being useless for another 10 seconds.

Hell, I’d remove the 3 clones, cap illusions to two and scale our shatters accordingly.

Cry of Frustration needs a rework, and Diversion needs to go back to being aoe baseline and 1 second stackable per clone (and diversion needs to apply the daze immediately, not wait for the clones to walk to a target as that is the most unreliable interrupt in the game).

It really kills me to see we were supposed to be the CC/interrupt/denial class and instead a head shot spamming thief with pulmonary impact is a far better iteration of gw1 mesmer than gw2 mesmer will ever be.

Even warriors/engineers have more lockdown/interrupt potential.

Necros and mesmers should have more degen capacities. Endurance steal/degen (and not weakness, which theieves can pretty much cleanse with their kittened OP traits by spamming evades), damage decreases and ways to frustrate and deny the enemy.

I am not sure what % damage 25 stacks of might adds when tested. However, in theory, using ascended zerk armor and trinkets, sigil of force, scholar runes, seaweed salad, toxic sharpening stones, and 100% crit chance, your dps should go up by roughly 28.17%. Permanent alacrity and quickness increases your dps by 25% to 50% (depending on the class and skills used). I am also not sure what kind of dps a phalanx strength warrior brings exactly. However, I have seen videos of warriors with dps at 28k. This is over twice the dps of a mes. When a chrono has to concentrate so much on rotations just supplying quickness and alacrity, giving up the 10% boost of scholar runes, giving up dps food for boon duration, and giving up phantasm damage to support allies with alacrity from iavenger, the dps is much, much lower. Especially, when initiating fights they have a period where they need to bring up 3 phantasms to bring their dps up anyway.

What all this actually means, idk. However, I do hope that now that they are doing a little pve/pvp splitting that chrono gets a little more sustained dps because as of right now its laughable. It takes forever to bring some mobs down compared to other classes. Besides, as of right now, doubling the sustained dps of a chrono would have no effect on the meta (other classes would still be brought for their higher dps, might, healing, etc.) and it would have little effect on the outcome of a raid fight because chronos are 1/10th of the group and have minimal dps to begin with.

I agree with Pyro, a full rework should be done. Remove phantasms and simply have clone generator skills/traits and shatters to consume them. I’d also love it if clones mimic you so they actually are defensive and can be used to hide you.

Here it is a bit of golem testing. I used a freshair D/Wh ele to measure and medium hitbox golem with 4kk HP and 1400 thoughness.

Test 1: With all buffs i got a dps of 32 128.
Test 2: Removing mesmer buffs from Test1 i got a dps of 24 973.
Test 3: Removing druid buffs from Test1 i got a dps of 24 221.
Test 4: Removing warrior buffs from Test1 i got a dps of 21 369.

Conclusion:
-If i added mesmer buffs to test2 i would increase my dps by ~28.65% (24 973 × 1.2865 = ~test1 result)
-If i added druid buffs to test3 i would increase my dps by ~32.65% (24 221 × 1.3265 = ~test1 result)
-If i added warrior buffs to test4 i would increase my dps by ~50.35% (21 369 × 1.5035 = ~test1 result)

Final considerations:
I choose fresh-air ele because its a class that gets affected by all kind of buffs (quickness, alacrity, power, precision, ferocity, condi damage, and both power and condi modifiers)
I used superior sharpening stones and 8% dmg while moving food.
On realistic scenarios perma alacrity, glyph of empowerment and 5GotL stacks is impossible decreasing even more the dps druid and chrono buffing would boost in reality. Yet for warrior it possible to mantain their buffs permanent and with ease, being it the only test as close as possible to reality.

So please, stop saying mesmer have low dps cause their huge dps increase buffs when warrior buffs gives much more dps increase while having 2xpersonal dps and additional utility.

Screen proof: http://i.imgur.com/LSQVfEQ.png

ps: I wish i could made same tests when alacrity still was 66%… I doubt mesmer would buff an ele dps for warriors magnitude.. Yet alacrity was nerfed and mesmer dps still pittyfull…. Maybe cause it was a new addition and it was on haters spotlight and warrior thing is an old thing and everyone got used to it…. Oh well… #Becausemesmer.

A good Druid will still keep up 4-5 stacks of gotl up, frost spirit, spotter as well as being a fury generator which are in short supply outside of revs these days. They also contribute to keeping up the scholar buff too which you need to factor in as a + to them as they can sustain the group very easily even in zerk.

The funny thing is that if you rank them in DPS you find warrior having the most party boosting power and dps with ranger being roughly joint second for party damage boosting but a little higher dps than mesmer but still well below the 20k mark.

Yea, its funny… I highly inflated mesmer test and even being it a completly unrealistic scenario its roughly half of a warrior realistic scenario …
On a realistic scenario mesmer is half of a warrior in both personal dps and dps increase.
Then if we consider additional utility warrior in its cc rotation can do 1k+ damage on a breakbar in ~3s (for reference it is “just” half of VG breakbar).
Druid like you said bring heals and fury and i would add protection(that combined with heals contribute for scholar and dps uptime, a dead guy or healing cant dps) but still pulls/pushes, SnR resses, AoE breakstun, projectile handling (x2) and also a fair amount of cc with axe/lunar impact/pet ect.. specially if done by quickdraw triggers.

Again, its funny when we leave cheap math/assumptions aside and test in reality.
I bet if we ask anyone that didnt make this kind of tests, they would say mesmer dps increase buffs is somewhere at double of a warrior when in reality its the other way around (like someone already said in this topic).

Bear in mind that when you mention that druid utility, such as protection and SnR, you are talking about even lower DPS variants than the already low one with marksmanship.

Both druid and mesmer are outright garbage DPS classes and both need DPS buffs.

If you actually look at the common denominator, all the weak DPS classes are pet classes.

Necromancers are only strong for boon corrupt and epidemic aoe, otherwise their single target is among the lowest of the condi specs in the game and they’d get replace by engineer/condi warrior.

Power necro is miserably bad, much like power mesmer and ranger.

Yes i know, druid dps isnt good either. Yet it still have more utility variety and can pump slighty higher dpses (personal and party buffs). Even better than this, druid(and warrior) can play both power and condi variant within same role and as effective. Its a plus for some raids / higher fractals.

Zenith.7301:

Both druid and mesmer are outright garbage DPS classes and both need DPS buffs.

But Rangers have an easier time leveling, and better AoE capabilities (it’s not good, but still better than Mesmer). Their personal DPS (with Marksmanship) is enough to kill things in a solo setting without being miserable… they certainly are better prepared for the LS3 than us. All this while bringing better utility.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t get DPS buffs, but I think Mesmer is in a worse situation.

What we really need is for % modifiers to affect phantasm DPS. Sure there could be some tweaks afterwards, but that would be the one big change that would make DPS mesmer viable. However, this is about living story and people are forgetting previous mechanics of living story. It’s not just that we have weak damage but sometimes phantasms literally do zero damage based off of fight mechanics. Coupled with poor base damage and you get problems. This isn’t specific to Mesmer although it affects us the most and shouldn’t be used in future updates.

FJSAMA.2867:

testing/math

It is pretty deceptive to call 25 might stacks warrior buffs and to assume that the warrior and mesmer buff an equal number of people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4mszig/dnt_raid_team_composition_guide/
The only time there are equal number of chronos and warriors in raid comps is 1) Mirror comp: Distortion share is a huge factor here and 2) 7/2/1 which is considered not ideal. Otherwise and more commonly, there is 1 Chrono keeping quickness up on 10 people while 2 warriors buff their respective 4-5 people.

Furthermore, just repeat your warrior buff test but with a Staff tempest and make sure to stand in your overload. F1 in fire alone will give 10 stacks of might for 18 seconds every ~18 seconds. Since there is usually 2 DPS staff tempest per subgroup, that’s 20 stacks of might from Eles. Sigil of Strength alone would be 20 seconds of might per proc on a chrono for a ~2% loss in DPS. Fried golden dumplings are 10 seconds of might per proc. With a bit of bonus might from a herald, the Chrono can share 25 stacks of might with SoI. Does that mean Might is a chrono buff now? Another way to look at this is a what if: What if Empower allies was moved to arms but PS stayed in tactics. Warriors would still be brought but might can easily come from other people because it’s the ~25% buff from EP and banners to 5 people that makes warriors part of the meta.

You also talk about 5x Gotl and alacrity uptime not being 100% but you make no mention of banners lasting 90 seconds on a 120 CD. Banners are stationary and a lot of raid bosses having you moving out of that 600 range too. Hardly realistic to have those buffs up all the time.

Yes, Mesmers need buffs in the DPS department in non-raid settings. In a raid setting though, it’s a lot more fair than you realize, especially when chronos make great tanks and have distortion share. Having % modifiers affect phantasms is the best solution since most of those are mutually exclusive with the raid Chrono tank setup although it would give the raid chrono about a 18% buff to phantasms.

Have I ever mentioned how in hindsight it was a stupid idea to make everyone play a DPSer by virtue of trying to not specialize the classes further? I mean it sounded good at first, granted.

Nowadays it’s just cause for grief because it precludes a ton of interesting balance setups since effectively everyone is eager to be equally effective in everything.

Doesnt change the fact that warrior can buff 25 permanent and with ease within the same build. Bad warriors can still maintain 25 might. Bad mesmers cannot mantain even 30% of quickness uptime.
Warrior can still spill might to more ppl and if they take strength runes and golden dumplings/strenth sigil im sure they could could buff everyone.
Banners can also affect more than 5 ppl since it gives kitten buff and refreshes every 3 seconds. Also banner actually lasts 95s (+5s from buff = 100s buff). And it is commonly taken as a permanent in realistic dps benchmarks tests by all top guilds. You can place them smartly and cover all util area of a raid, even in highly movable raids. Same doesnt happen with last well pulse or even avengers on largeboxes like gorseval. (Same happens with EA 9s buff reapplied in a 3s interval.)
4- Chrono is not a great tank for its “tanking” abilities. It is just taken as a tank since it is optimal to be the mesmer doing the job because its dps is low anyway and since he doesnt sacrifice in its buffing its better than have a dedicated tank. Necro/thief tanking are so much better due to self-sustain.
There, i can also theorycraft. We need more pratical tests not theory.

I do think phantasm should get affected by modifiers long ago. I disagree that giving a dps increase to mesmer it should aim phantasms.. For all the reasons of how a phantasm works..

To the last post. Everyone can stay different yet balanced. No one seeks to be equal by all means. Its just a balanced game is so more healthy and enjoyable. At least for me. If you want to be a special snowflake (even if for all the wrong reasons), you can still portal ppl to the end of jumpingpuzzles. Kappa.

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

First thing you’d need to fix is bounce priority. Everything else is sorta secondary.

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

First thing you’d need to fix is bounce priority. Everything else is sorta secondary.

True but I still see that as less of a problem then the ones we currently deal with.

Levetty.1279:

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

First thing you’d need to fix is bounce priority. Everything else is sorta secondary.

True but I still see that as less of a problem then the ones we currently deal with.

The bounce priority issue straight up halves your damage outside of a solo situation, so that’s the first thing that needs to be fixed. Once that’s fixed, it’s actually competitive with the pistol setup due to higher uptime and more rapid ramp-up.

I don’t even get why we have this crappy hybrid of boons and conditions on staff. The staff auto boons are utterly unnecessary, and the power base numbers of the auto is the lowest in the game, with one of the slowest projectiles in game.

Removing boon bounces on allies would significantly help our cleave condition capacity. Balance the conditions on the attack without bounce on allies.

If you removed the vulnerability from the condition pool, that would also be immense for its DPS ramp up. Or they could just make it apply vulnerability AND another condition.

Chaos Armor needs to have the prot baseline back again. Chaos Storm needs to actually hurt with conditions instead of being a field you use to fish for aegis and to land interrupts.

And in the topic of damage modifiers, Wastrel’s Punishment needs to be scrapped and make it something proper like a % damage increase on targets activating skills for 10% damage and on inactive targets 5%.

We also need all our grandmasters on all our traitlines to not be utter trash. It’s bad enough that Illusion 15% extra damage adept is far bigger a boost than any grandmaster we have in the vanilla traitlines.

It kills me they made Power Block completely useless in PvE and it’s just a crappier version of thief’s headshot+pulmonary impact play, not to mention distracting daggers. Thief, engineer, and warrior are far better classes at lockdown than mesmer is, and that is wrong.

Breakbar in general just kills any interrupt traits anyway. And since ANet confirms that they’ll split PvE and PvP skills, I think they should look into all interrupt traits and make them useful when against breakbars.

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

For fun go to the test zone, put all conditions on the golem, perm might, fury, quickness on yourself. Summon 3 warlocks via CS and Signet of Ether, share your boons with the warlocks with signet of inspiration and auto attack. You should get a pretty high number (for Mesmer) which is completely unattainable outside of a world boss maybe but it’s a nice little reason to craft it =P

FJSAMA.2867:

OriOri.8724:

I highly doubt we will receive any large damage buffs due to our incredibly party support with alacrity :/

I cant understand why it is so hard to see the need of a dps boost on mesmer.

Even if you consider perma alacrity+quickness:
warrior buffs > druid buffs > mesmer buffs (dps wise on a dps class).

The personal dps of the same builds follow the same pattern:
ps warrior dps> druid dps > mesmer dps

Again the same pattern applies with how easy this classes can mantain/reapply their buffs.

And if you consider the rest of utility the same classes can also bring in the very same builds:

- warrior brings tons of cc ( and can play condi variant if needed to condi bosses)

- druid brings tons of heal(translating in dps uptime or +10%dps to scholar users) and can still bring fury and protection(translating again in dps uptime) and can play condi variant if needed for condi bosses

- mesmer not really too much to add other than gimmick distortion share and boon copy with signet( that is irrelevant to other boons but quickness, i guess it can help on disorganized groups) and a bit of other utilities that all classes also bring.

The dps boost just of quickness is about the same as warrior banners…. and please, you are going to be at at least 10 might stacks without a war and there are plenty of builds that do more dps than a PS war and still generate might…. actually a condi scepter ele can maintain permanent 25 might…. the reason you bring a war is the banners and EpA which net about a 34% dps increase. The chronomancy does that level of dps increase for 7 people. Honestly though, buffing chrono solo dps will do very little to the meta, just make bosses burn a couple thousand dps faster. I would like to say though, chrono does about the same dps as a power druid in a speedclear team…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

What we really need is for % modifiers to affect phantasm DPS. Sure there could be some tweaks afterwards, but that would be the one big change that would make DPS mesmer viable. However, this is about living story and people are forgetting previous mechanics of living story. It’s not just that we have weak damage but sometimes phantasms literally do zero damage based off of fight mechanics. Coupled with poor base damage and you get problems. This isn’t specific to Mesmer although it affects us the most and shouldn’t be used in future updates.

FJSAMA.2867:

testing/math

It is pretty deceptive to call 25 might stacks warrior buffs and to assume that the warrior and mesmer buff an equal number of people.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4mszig/dnt_raid_team_composition_guide/
The only time there are equal number of chronos and warriors in raid comps is 1) Mirror comp: Distortion share is a huge factor here and 2) 7/2/1 which is considered not ideal. Otherwise and more commonly, there is 1 Chrono keeping quickness up on 10 people while 2 warriors buff their respective 4-5 people.

Furthermore, just repeat your warrior buff test but with a Staff tempest and make sure to stand in your overload. F1 in fire alone will give 10 stacks of might for 18 seconds every ~18 seconds. Since there is usually 2 DPS staff tempest per subgroup, that’s 20 stacks of might from Eles. Sigil of Strength alone would be 20 seconds of might per proc on a chrono for a ~2% loss in DPS. Fried golden dumplings are 10 seconds of might per proc. With a bit of bonus might from a herald, the Chrono can share 25 stacks of might with SoI. Does that mean Might is a chrono buff now? Another way to look at this is a what if: What if Empower allies was moved to arms but PS stayed in tactics. Warriors would still be brought but might can easily come from other people because it’s the ~25% buff from EP and banners to 5 people that makes warriors part of the meta.

You also talk about 5x Gotl and alacrity uptime not being 100% but you make no mention of banners lasting 90 seconds on a 120 CD. Banners are stationary and a lot of raid bosses having you moving out of that 600 range too. Hardly realistic to have those buffs up all the time.

Yes, Mesmers need buffs in the DPS department in non-raid settings. In a raid setting though, it’s a lot more fair than you realize, especially when chronos make great tanks and have distortion share. Having % modifiers affect phantasms is the best solution since most of those are mutually exclusive with the raid Chrono tank setup although it would give the raid chrono about a 18% buff to phantasms.

They discipline banner alone is 21% you are vastly underestimating the benefit of war buffs here.

Fay.2357:

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

Our current dps good enough for LW content, yes OriOri….but you seem to miss the point that it’s still miserable. Can it be completed? Sure. Will you hate yourself by the end of it? Yep.

For the last time. I want a DPS boost. I honestly cannot understand why you guys think I don’t want one.

Literally all that I said was that I doubt we will get one. That doesn’t mean I don’t want one. Christ.

The major point of your first post was actually “our dps is fine”.

OriOri.8724:

I think our damage is fine for LW content, it can just take a while to kill some things due to us being forced to choose between burst or sustained damage.

Our dps isn’t fine. This is the point.

Our dps was fine for a long time. The problem is they fixed ursan-form clones….
One of the pre HoT was enough 3 was like omg I’m God form solo lupicus in 40s. I mean srsly we had higher dps than eles for a while….. until they / nerfed the only good thing about norn.

Ananeos.4587:

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

Ever played condi mesmer? Pistol 5 oneshots 5 mordrem…. just make sure the menders and together, use it, and watch everything vaguely close die instantly…

Sadrien.3470:

Ananeos.4587:

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

Ever played condi mesmer? Pistol 5 oneshots 5 mordrem…. just make sure the menders and together, use it, and watch everything vaguely close die instantly…

Or my ele drops a lava font and eats a sandvich while they all die

What you described is a very very very niche scenario which may or may not leave you twiddling your fingers while most other classes are steamrolling through.

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know what buffs staff auto would need to have make Mesmer and 3 staff clones our best dps. Obviously thinking in regards to duration of burning and increasing the amount of stacks.

I’m not just looking for an excuse to make Nevermore or anything.

First thing you’d need to fix is bounce priority. Everything else is sorta secondary.

What about that projectile speed though? ;o
I could throw faster than that cloud of disappointment.

Sadrien.3470:

Ananeos.4587:

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

Ever played condi mesmer? Pistol 5 oneshots 5 mordrem…. just make sure the menders and together, use it, and watch everything vaguely close die instantly…

Got video proof of that?

Ananeos.4587:

Sadrien.3470:

Ananeos.4587:

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

Ever played condi mesmer? Pistol 5 oneshots 5 mordrem…. just make sure the menders and together, use it, and watch everything vaguely close die instantly…

Got video proof of that?

Menders when using mistrust. Getting hit by the confusion interrupts them, causing more aoe confusion ad infinitum. They’re technically correct, but embarrassingly irrelevant.

Fay.2357:

Ananeos.4587:

Sadrien.3470:

Ananeos.4587:

LS1, LS2, Dry Top, Silverwastes, HoT, every single one of these was hell on earth for a mesmer. When will we ever get a damage buff to cope with LS3? Especially since people keep asking for harder and more challenging content?

Ever played condi mesmer? Pistol 5 oneshots 5 mordrem…. just make sure the menders and together, use it, and watch everything vaguely close die instantly…

Got video proof of that?

Menders when using mistrust. Getting hit by the confusion interrupts them, causing more aoe confusion ad infinitum. They’re technically correct, but embarrassingly irrelevant.

This is a very small location this can happen, and only because of a bug with interrupts on those enemies. I have done this with the daze mantra one shotting vets who get close to a pack of menders. Again, it only works against menders, which you don’t see many of except in silverwastes. Kinda pointless to claim Mesmer has good dps due to a bug against one enemy type.

Edit: I remembered one other type of enemy this works on. The charge attack things that constantly hit with the charge, again, in silverwastes, interrupting the charge with mistrust will do this as well, I used the the “interrupt the interrupt” trait to protect myself against that attack to play lazy style.

I just hope Mesmer gets a pure dps spec in the next expansion.