Guild Wars 2

It seems that when I’m swimming in Borderlands and I engage someone in underwater combat, they usually just run away.

Mesmer Condition builds wreck almost everyone underwater. Which I guess is a small consolation after how badly we’ve been “accidentally” nerfed.

rangers are immortal underwater.

Most classes have what feels like “incomplete” weapons underwater. They may not engage you simply because underwater combat was an afterthought in this game, and certainly not balanced for pvp.

They might also have bad memories of when mesmer clones caused confusion on autoattack when underwater. Back then, 1v3ing was not only possible, it was easy.

Though we lost a lot of our underwater power with the clones-change, we are still extremely strong as a result of four things:

• We can quickly stack up 25 stacks of bleeds, re-apply them near instantly (so cleansing is pointless), and gain loads of boons in the process.
• We have three types of CC / area denial.
• We’re faster than nearly anyone else underwater.
• Our Spear #2 can cause absolutely absurd amounts of damage if the enemy is immobilized / stunned / sunk / floating near a wall or rock or other surface.

Could you guys give some tips on what weapon skills are strong? I heard never go to spear but I’m so inexperienced in water I might miss out.

A while ago though I was on my shatter glass mesmer, my friend was on his BM regen ranger and we had another mesmer in greens. We were engaging a guardian in water (boon bunker) and we literally couldn’t get him below 25%. 3 guys, both of the so called best classes in water. How was this possible? I trief stacking phantasms, didn’t work. I tried shattering first, worked even less.

When I went to run cause I was bored he suddenly hit me for half my health very quickly (2s). That was my first real combat experience with mesmer underwater (I have a lot of experience on land) and it sucked hard.

Trident 54321
Spear 54321
Are strong skills.

How to use them? I typically start with…

Trident 5 —> 4 —> 3 —> 2 —> Spear 5 —> 2 —> 4 —> 3 —> 2 —> Trident 1

By default, you want 3 clones up at all times. Like Carighan said, you can maintain nearly 25 stacks of bleeds at all times, and you apply them so quickly with 3 clones up that cleansing it does barely anything at all. Even with little condition damage, it’s still quite powerful, and the boons you get will be glorious.

If you are condition specced: Once you get those clones up, you spam your blind and retaliation (trident #2 and #3) along with your trident #5 for some CC when needed. Shatter whenever you have the ability to very quickly make 3 more clones (Mirror Images, full endurance if you have Deceptive Evasion, #3 makes a clone, etc.). Use the iWhaler phantasm if you need shatter fodder, can’t make a 3rd clone yet, or another person with you can generate bleeds.

The clones are generally better. But since you can hit the bleed cap yourself, if another person generates bleeds, then your bleeds may become redundant. Adding in some confusion instead of extra bleeds will allow for more overall group damage.

Overall, you aren’t looking to spike them down. You are putting up sustainable damage to win by attrition. Kite, avoid as much damage as possible, and keep the clones firing until it wears them down. Also, it would be wise to use Arcane Thievery underwater- we don’t have as much access to boon-hate as on ground, so a well-timed Arcane can make all the difference.

I don’t have much experience with power based builds underwater, but I would assume you would do a standard shatter-spike, with trident clones for sustained dps in-between shatters:

Set up clones for bleeds → Shatter (Mind Wrack if you can get it to recharge, otherwise Cry of Frustration) → Evade (for a clone) → Spear #5 for CC→ Spear #3/phantasm → Spear #2 → Spear #2 again to return to location → Mind Wrack → Set up clones for bleeds until you can spike again.

Thanks for the extensive feedback I acutally think I had Arcane Thievery on because of the jellyfish in fractals but I don’t think I used it… Too distracted by what the guardian could do lol.

Basically what Nixon said, if you’re more power-focused. The clones’ bleeds are still a staple source of steady damage, and supply you with boons in the process.

Start all defensive fights with Trident, start offensive fights with the Spear (which is a given since you need to catch up to them). Switch to Trident as you get into range in the latter case, if need be open up with an Anchor.
Then:

1. 3 Clones
2. Blind
3. Switch to Spear
4. Now the slightly tricky part. In the ideal case, between anchor and choosing your battles you are near any surface. Be near it, trap the enemy in the Vortex, then dodge to above or next to them and Surge into the surface. You’ll hit the enemy ~10 times, for very large damage.
5. As the Surge is about to end, Shatter the Trident Clones, time the teleport-back on the Surge so you get both the end-clone and the teleport-clone, then also summon a Mariner right away.
6. At this point you either won, or you swap back to Trident to get 3 Clones again. If the enemy is however both alive and stupid, and stays near the wall, don’t swap back, instead just Surge into them again for a kill.

Really, much of the Spear is in using Surge when someone is near a surface. 2 Clones + excessive damage.

Well, trident auto attacks with 3 clones can stack 25 bleeds with 100% uptime easily :/.
Maybe were the strongest in offense, even when youre not condition specced…. But ranged are immortal underwater. They could easilh win a 1vs2. With near zero chance of defeat.

Not really. It’s not easy killing a ranger due to the rezz-bug with the dead pet, but you can just bleed the pet to death first (doesn’t take long at all), or if you’re power-specced it dies due to the surge-action. Then kill the ranger.

The problem is with that bug, ofc.

Mind you, I think land damage is too high. I don’t mind people having time to react before having to hit release.

Mesmers should lose to necros underwater aswell. Only weapons on the necro which actually feel complete and strong. Got aoe snares and the lot to deal with mesmer clones and nuke them down. But yeah I find mesmer one of the few classes with decent underwater weapons. Wouldnt say the best, feel like necro is stronger imo.

Jackums.3496:

We’ll lose to a Ranger, but that’s about it.

I don’t necessarily agree with this, although it’s just my personal experience. Fighting rangers, I just can’t kill them (pet rez being OP), but they spend nearly the entire fight in downed state until one of us breaks off. xD

I call that a win in my book, even if they don’t die. lol

Rangers are the one thing that scare me underwater.

Otherwise the only major threat is another mesmer (or just a very good player!)

Deceptive evasion + trident clones + elasticity (before the “bug”) is crazy, although recently I tend to favour the spear in combat so each weapon is seeing 50/50 usage, and not just as a mobility weapon.

Jackums.3496:

We’ll lose to a Ranger, but that’s about it.

No we won’t,

step 1) target ranger pet

Step 2) create illusion

Step 3) hit F3

Congratulations, the pet no longer is reszing his master!

Jackums.3496:

That’s assuming you have Diversion off of cooldown. I run shatter, so I tend to use it before Mind Wrack for the vulnerability stacks. So, no, it’s still a matter of what if.

And you can’t not use that when facing a Ranger? It’s not like downing people is any difficult underwater.

Jackums.3496:

Durzlla.6295:

Jackums.3496:

We’ll lose to a Ranger, but that’s about it.

No we won’t,

step 1) target ranger pet

Step 2) create illusion

Step 3) hit F3

Congratulations, the pet no longer is reszing his master!

That’s assuming you have Diversion off of cooldown. I run shatter, so I tend to use it before Mind Wrack for the vulnerability stacks. So, no, it’s still a matter of what if.

You could always go ahead and do this amazing thing called bring sig of dom or mantra of distraction, or you know, not use that skill while fighting a ranger, i mean cmon, does it -need- to be used?

I’m surprised not to see more mention of traited grenade engineers – that’s what feels like my strongest underwater build, before condition necro and mesmer. Still, I haven’t made much use of the spear on the mesmer yet – must investigate.

Jackums.3496:

Carighan.6758:

And you can’t not use that when facing a Ranger? It’s not like downing people is any difficult underwater.

Durzlla.6295:

You could always go ahead and do this amazing thing called bring sig of dom or mantra of distraction, or you know, not use that skill while fighting a ranger, i mean cmon, does it -need- to be used?

Thank you, Captain Obvious #1 and #2. I was obviously speaking in the context of not going into every underwater battle knowing what’s going to happen, especially considering you can’t control who attacks you.

You’re a bit rude and condescending, considering that YOU are the one that has difficulty with rangers, not everyone. You can try to prove people wrong, but it’s different for other players apparently. I don’t have a problem with rangers – at least, they can’t kill me and I can’t kill them underwater. They won’t “eventually kill me if they keep their pet on me.” I’ve 1v1’ed rangers – where else are they going to keep their pet other than attacking me? And yes, the result was the same for me – ranger in downed state, pet rezzing faster than I can kill him. Now, you can continue to go ahead and say I’m wrong and try to defend it, but somehow a statement of “your experience is incorrect, that ranger really did kill you and you’re not remembering it right” seems a bit silly.

Hot Boy.7138:

rangers are immortal underwater.

I’ve stomped every single ranger I’ve faced underwater. Effortlessly. Between feedback, tons of condition damage, disables, confusion, and decent direct damage, they simply can’t catch a break underwater. They’re either running or dying.

When i interupt the pet revive… It just continues to revive afer the daze wears of anyway :’(.
Or maybe thats the bug that everyone talks about? That bug happens more than half the time then…

Alissah.9281:

When i interupt the pet revive… It just continues to revive afer the daze wears of anyway :’(.
Or maybe thats the bug that everyone talks about? That bug happens more than half the time then…

Are you dazing the pet or the ranger? Because my main was a ranger since beta and daze/stun always 100% ended the pet revive, anything else just delays it but those 2 flat out stop it.

I can confirm this because i can use my rangers downed #2 to stop other rangers from getting back up, not to mention i’ve used diversion to send quite a few rangers into dave jones locker on my new favorite character.

rangers are also very strong underwater (as others have stated)

… i dont think eles get enough/any recognition for underwater combat; but imo they’re pretty good too (massive CC chain(air float, earth sink, water sink, air cage stun, whirlpool pull, fire cripple, water chill), aoes, blinds and water 2/3/5 do tons of damage

edit
stealth, vigor and heals)

Linguistically Inept.6583:

rangers are also very strong underwater (as others have stated)

… i dont think eles get enough/any recognition for underwater combat; but imo they’re pretty good too (massive CC chain(air float, earth sink, water sink, air cage stun, whirlpool pull, fire cripple, water chill), aoes, blinds and water 2/3/5 do tons of damage)

The reason Eles are unsung heroes of underwater combat is people don’t know how to use it because it’s different than on land, underwater earth is tanky condi melee (like on land), air is mobile melee direct damage + CC, Water is Damage (unlike on land), and fire is support (unlike on land) so a lot of people think “I want AoE damage! i’m going to go into fire!” and then just don’t have anything to really hurt anyone with.

BM ranger with shark/lashtail devourer is better than any1 underwater

Necromancer and Ranger are currently enormously overpowered in underwater combat.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Necromancer and Ranger are currently enormously overpowered in underwater combat.

Necromancers are? How? And rangers are only strong because their downed state is hard to take out.

Try fighting a good Terrormancer underwater, you’ll see what I mean.

Dhampyr.2104:

Jackums.3496:

We’ll lose to a Ranger, but that’s about it.

I don’t necessarily agree with this, although it’s just my personal experience. Fighting rangers, I just can’t kill them (pet rez being OP), but they spend nearly the entire fight in downed state until one of us breaks off. xD

I call that a win in my book, even if they don’t die. lol

umm with the majority of rangers who are kids that just want to use a longbow i find it rather amusing using reflet against them

Durzlla.6295:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Necromancer and Ranger are currently enormously overpowered in underwater combat.

Necromancers are? How? And rangers are only strong because their downed state is hard to take out.

Necro’s have incredibly powerful underwater weapons. Go beserker and you do damage similar to a warrior but with more aoe and better cc along with control conditions. Using a condition build also works due to the cc and the tridents condition applications. The weapons synergise amazingly, necros actually have mobility, combo finishers and the lot on their underwater weapons (the only perfectly designed weapons they have). Also underwater DS is very strong except for the #4 which is more of a support skill but it can be used to make plague blast more effective.

RedCobra.7693:

umm with the majority of rangers who are kids that just want to use a longbow i find it rather amusing using reflet against them

While I agree with reflects being awesome, I don’t think we’ll see many longbows underwater. Brings up a good point that I think is very relevant though – how good are reflects underwater?

Dhampyr.2104:

While I agree with reflects being awesome, I don’t think we’ll see many longbows underwater. Brings up a good point that I think is very relevant though – how good are reflects underwater?

Against Mesmers they can be very deadly.

Mesmer’s are now weaker underwater with the change/bug/nerf to bouncing skills.

I haven’t played mesmer in a while, but I was maining it, I was never afraid to engage in underwater combat unless it was a situation in which I was grossly outnumbered. Mesmers are arguably the best class underwater. I don’t much about rangers, except that I found their downed state annoying if I didn’t kill them quickly enough.

It was also better before they ‘fixed’ Trident #5 and nerfed confusion. Shatter mesmers/condition mesmers are incredibly good underwater imo. Between the constant pressure of bleeds from clones, regular shatters from dodging and the damage the phantasms put out, they’re in a good spot.

Except maybe with that bouncing bug, but I don’t know about that since I haven’t played mesmer in a while.