Guild Wars 2

So, this build is bad against dueling opponents? Just sit down and think about how that appeals to all of us forum Mesmers. Don’t get me wrong. Your build has serious potential. But this build will be sort of useless fighting more than one person since you have only one stealth. this is the reality. Unless you have some massive mobility, which is not the case. 7 seconds phase retreat is not nearly enough, you will be running away so many times from your opponents. You should have at least said that you were gonna improvise on this build. I know people are trying to be radical these days, I respect that, which was what I was aiming for in my Apex Predator build, but only a few succeed to actually talk about it to another day. This is the darn reality. Like I said, your build has serious potential. All our builds do. It’s up to the OP to be able to unlock the build’s inner secret max potential.

@menace: Your criticisms are pretty much all bogus. You sound like you’re trying to sound knowledgeable, but you just come off as a fool.

@OP: Here is the main issue with celestial stats, which is why I just never can get myself to run them. None of your stats (with the exception of crit damage) are good at all. They’re all sorta decent though.

What that means is that this build performs in a sorta decent way in a lot of situations. You have actually gotten a reasonable trait setup for reinforcing that, which is good.

Ultimately, if you’re ok with never actually being really good at anything, but always being able to sorta scrape by, then celestial stats will work.

umm, Pyros, I actually saw his build. I was just expressing my opinion. My opinion has a ring of truth. There is no rule or law forbiding me to speak what I feel is right in my view. Yes. Celestial is useless to go full on. They are only good for mixing it with other armor sets. Not to be used fully. It is a disasterous build outcome if you were to use full Celestial. Like I said in Natsu’s newest thread build post,

a full Celestial= Jenga tower with missing blocks.

I’m not trying to piece either of you out here. I just am sharing my opinions. Like you have just said with me by calling me bogus. Which is all cool. Everyone has been a hypocrite at least once in their lives. Including me no doubt.

stay positive. That was my attitude when everyone kept telling me my builds had no potential. Now my hybrid build(s) are viable, or around 90% viable.

Well, yeah, sorry for being immature in this thread. I had no reason to disrespect the OP and had no intention of. I wasn’t trying to draw any attention. Just that Pyros just got in the way of my friendly talk with the OP and he said I was bogus. Obviously I was surprised by that comment. But I can’t blame Pyros. It’s just in his nature. Just like me hating comments like that is in my nature.

Ooook then. Lets see.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

So, this build is bad against dueling opponents? Just sit down and think about how that appeals to all of us forum Mesmers.

Well, seeing as there’s an awful lot of things to do in this game that don’t involve 1v1 dueling, I’d say that’s not a bad start.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Don’t get me wrong. Your build has serious potential. But this build will be sort of useless fighting more than one person since you have only one stealth.

Really? Since when did massive amounts of stealth become a prerequisite for fighting in a group? We’ve already established that it won’t be super effective at dueling, so a 1 vs many scenario is already out the window. This comment makes 0 sense.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

this is the reality. Unless you have some massive mobility, which is not the case. 7 seconds phase retreat is not nearly enough, you will be running away so many times from your opponents.

Again with the 1 vs many thing. That’s not what this build is designed to do.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

You should have at least said that you were gonna improvise on this build. I know people are trying to be radical these days, I respect that, which was what I was aiming for in my Apex Predator build, but only a few succeed to actually talk about it to another day. This is the darn reality. Like I said, your build has serious potential. All our builds do. It’s up to the OP to be able to unlock the build’s inner secret max potential.

This paragraph is just full of fail.

Ultimately, before you type out responses like this, you need to stop and think about what you’re saying, and if it actually makes any sense at all.

Well, this is my point of view. You all act like once you create a build for a specific purpose in WvW, you expect to see that build fulfilled in that process. You guys never really give a second thought about what might happen in WvW. If you make a support, you think you are gonna be in a zerg every time. If you make a condition you guys think you are gonna solo roam every time. I am just pointing out here of what might happen if OP was to fight a decent player with this build. He will crumble. That is what I was trying to say. You guys are too believing in your builds. I made 2 builds for my Apex Predator build so that their can be counter measures for different situations you feel you might encounter. that is what I am trying to tell the OP and everyone else in this thread. Always think about what bad might happen, instead of all the good things that will come your way through this build. That is too much of a one-way thinking.

If you still think I am bluffing, let’s apply this in real life. Let’s say you brought short pants and sleeve shirts outside. It can be rainy or sunny, you never know. That means if it were to be rainy, you are gonna be drenched and sick and likely at home for the rest of the week. What I am trying to emphasize here is that don’t go around thinking that everything is going to be suited to your build. Anything can happen in WvW.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Well, this is my point of view. You all act like once you create a build for a specific purpose in WvW, you expect to see that build fulfilled in that process. You guys never really give a second thought about what might happen in WvW. If you make a support, you think you are gonna be in a zerg every time. If you make a condition you guys think you are gonna solo roam every time. I am just pointing out here of what might happen if OP was to fight a decent player with this build. He will crumble. That is what I was trying to say. You guys are too believing in your builds. I made 2 builds for my Apex Predator build so that their can be counter measures for different situations you feel you might encounter. that is what I am trying to tell the OP and everyone else in this thread. Always think about what bad might happen, instead of all the good things that will come your way through this build. That is too much of a one-way thinking.

If you still think I am bluffing, let’s apply this in real life. Let’s say you brought short pants and sleeve shirts outside. It can be rainy or sunny, you never know. That means if it were to be rainy, you are gonna be drenched and sick and likely at home for the rest of the week. What I am trying to emphasize here is that don’t go around thinking that everything is going to be suited to your build. Anything can happen in WvW.

When im running in shorts and a tank top on a warm sunny day, and it starts raining… I act appropiately and go inside/stand under something so i dont get wet/sick. Im not dressed for rain, so I avoid it.

The same can be done with a zerg only build. See a roamer? Just avoid detection or run.

edit: I cant actually see the build atm because im on mobile :’(

Yes, I understand. I know that you can just run. But I understand what that feels like. It sucks having to run away from your enemy if it means being further separated from your group, which is a possibility. I just don’t want OP to have to frickin suffer that. His build will be a one shot kill by a thief too. They can catch up to him no matter what. Same with engis if they are smart enough. I just want to get the message to OP that he needs to think about how this build will affect the rest of his group and himself. It is a bit dangerous to roam around with that low of a toughness. He might die before he even gets to his zerg group.

Ok Menace (wow do you live up to that name) lets take something into our thinking process.

What do you want do to right now?
I want to run in a zerg. I will run a zerg style build.
Time passes of fun zerging and zerg breaks for some reason.
O well crap zerg is gone.
Option 1: find new zerg
Option 2: switch builds for different purpose.
Option 3: Log off and read Menaces posts for a good laugh.

We can build, builds for singular purposes because we CAN in fact pick what we do even in WvW. If you are wanting to run with a zerg it is very uncommon for your path from the zone in to the zerg to be blocked. You are not going to be running a build for the purpose of running in a zerg and go “I am going to go totally ignore the zerg over at Bay and take the fishing village solo”. Some people may do this but they are kinda silly because they wouldn’t be running a build for it.

Also, you Apex Pred(ahahahhaha) not viable at all unless your opponent is running away from you as we saw in your amazing video.

As for the build. It accomplishes what it sets out to do that is for sure. Seems like a perfect build for running with a zerg. ^^

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Yes, I understand. I know that you can just run. But I understand what that feels like. It sucks having to run away from your enemy if it means being further separated from your group, which is a possibility. I just don’t want OP to have to frickin suffer that. His build will be a one shot kill by a thief too. They can catch up to him no matter what. Same with engis if they are smart enough. I just want to get the message to OP that he needs to think about how this build will affect the rest of his group and himself. It is a bit dangerous to roam around with that low of a toughness. He might die before he even gets to his zerg group.

Pretty much every sentence in this paragraph is false.

I’m not talking about the issues of how this build handles other zergs. I’m worried that when you do engage on someone even by accident, you will have a very tough time trying to survive, or try to get away without dying. I am just saying that you can make small adjustments to this build so that it become good at handling zergs, and handling roamers. This is what I want the op to accomplish. I was only trying to say this. His zerg purpose is fulfilled, but his roaming purpose is diminished because all his attention is on zerg fighting. I get that you lead zergs, and I admire your confidence. I just think it is a bit weird for my taste that how mighty this build is in zerg, but how it is bad in
1 vs 1. A good leader is good at everything. So let’s say you see a comrade surrounded by 2 people. Your natural instinct would be to save him or try to help him. If they suddenly switch their attention on you, you wouldn’t be that much of a help to your friend since you are too busy trying to get away/survive.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I’m not talking about the issues of how this build handles other zergs. I’m worried that when you do engage on someone even by accident, you will have a very tough time trying to survive, or try to get away without dying. I am just saying that you can make small adjustments to this build so that it become good at handling zergs, and handling roamers. This is what I want the op to accomplish. I was only trying to say this. His zerg purpose is fulfilled, but his roaming purpose is diminished because all his attention is on zerg fighting. I get that you lead zergs, and I admire your confidence. I just think it is a bit weird for my taste that how mighty this build is in zerg, but how it is bad in
1 vs 1. A good leader is good at everything. So let’s say you see a comrade surrounded by 2 people. Your natural instinct would be to save him or try to help him. If they suddenly switch their attention on you, you wouldn’t be that much of a help to your friend since you are too busy trying to get away/survive.

You have no idea how to tweak a build so that it becomes good at handling zergs and handling roamers. How on earth could you spot the deficiencies in one?

Well, i was just saying that it should be tweeked so it can be good at both areas. I wasn’t going out of the way to say that I was gonna take over this thread and revise his entire build. It’s the op’s job to do that. I don’t get why you are putting words in my mouth pyros. I thought we were past that by now.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Well, i was just saying that it should be tweeked so it can be good at both areas. I wasn’t going out of the way to say that I was gonna take over this thread and revise his entire build. It’s the op’s job to do that. I don’t get why you are putting words in my mouth pyros. I thought we were past that by now.

Because it’s disgusting to see you come into a thread and leverage poorly thought-out criticism at a build. The fact that valid criticism of this build does exist just goes to show how little thought was put into your statements here. It’s disparaging to the build creator, it’s demeaning to this forum, and it (should be) embarassing to yourself and makes you look like a fool.

I clearly had my reasons for not liking its current state. I don’t have the time to quote right now so i will get onto it. I stated that this build lacks the good mobility and toughness to handle a solo player. around 90% of the zerg build out there can do both of those things. I wanted the OP to realize that he could maximize his trait line if he just tweeked some stuff. Everyone here knows that full Celestial is bad. Don’t you think I would have thought of that when I first saw this post?? So I just added that he should do better in the areas of solo roaming so he can pickup a needy player as he tries to find a zerg. Then you come along and said that my ideas are ridiculous. How is it not worth talking about? I’m just trying to help a player out and you guys are calling it foul play almost. It is getting very confusing.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

I clearly had my reasons for not liking its current state. I don’t have the time to quote right now so i will get onto it. I stated that this build lacks the good mobility and toughness to handle a solo player. around 90% of the zerg build out there can do both of those things. I wanted the OP to realize that he could maximize his trait line if he just tweeked some stuff. Everyone here knows that full Celestial is bad. Don’t you think I would have thought of that when I first saw this post?? So I just added that he should do better in the areas of solo roaming so he can pickup a needy player as he tries to find a zerg. Then you come along and said that my ideas are ridiculous. How is it not worth talking about? I’m just trying to help a player out and you guys are calling it foul play almost. It is getting very confusing.

Ok, so you’re wrong, and as usual, you are unable to see that you’re wrong, despite multiple people telling you so. We generally reach this point eventually, but you managed to streamline the process today.

Just explain to me where I messed up. All you guys are saying is that I am wrong. All I was trying to say was that a good zerg build should also be able to hold his own against other skilled players with good builds. Just stop acting dumbfounded at me and tell me where I went wrong.

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Just explain to me where I messed up. All you guys are saying is that I am wrong. All I was trying to say was that a good zerg build should also be able to hold his own against other skilled players with good builds. Just stop acting dumbfounded at me and tell me where I went wrong.

^ This is where you went wrong.

Why does a good “zerg” build need to be able to do anything other than run in a zerg? Throw out another example: "Why does my solo roaming build which can handle 1v3s pretty easily need to be “effective” in a zerg?"

No one ever decided that except for you apparently and based on that video you posted you are not the person to be making these kinds of decisions.

Alright, I’m sorry if I kitten ed off the whole lot of you. I seriously wanted to point out that OP’s build could be dramatically better if he could do both these things very very well. After all, you are bound to meet an enemy player in WvW while you are by yourself. I just wanted the OP to know that his build doesn’t have to be bad at 1 vs 1. His weapon setup was good for doin 1vs1 if he just made some few clicks and changed his armor stats.

Hexxen.7216:

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Just explain to me where I messed up. All you guys are saying is that I am wrong. All I was trying to say was that a good zerg build should also be able to hold his own against other skilled players with good builds. Just stop acting dumbfounded at me and tell me where I went wrong.

^ This is where you went wrong.

Why does a good “zerg” build need to be able to do anything other than run in a zerg? Throw out another example: "Why does my solo roaming build which can handle 1v3s pretty easily need to be “effective” in a zerg?"

No one ever decided that except for you apparently and based on that video you posted you are not the person to be making these kinds of decisions.

Quoted for truth.

Besides, zerglings are my favourite prey when im using a roaming build, because they are specced for zerging.

Mesmer is a specialist proffession, if you dedicate to either roaming or zerging youre very good at one of them, but if you try to “specialise” in both youre mediocre at both.

Lets compare it to clothes again… You can wear a tank top with a winter coat over it, and shorts with skipants on a sunny day.
If it suddenly starts snowing, youre prepared. But if it remains sunny you have to put the warm clothes off, and run around with them all day, which limits your effectiveness.
You can also carry an umbrella incase it starts raining, but youd have to carry even more.

Now try going grocery shopping with all those extra clothes and umbrella…

What im saying is, theres no reason to expect snow or rain to fall on a summer day, and if it does, there are enough options for you to avoid it even without 2sets of clothes and an umbrella. Its just too much trouble to carry everything :P

>__<

I didn’t even bother reading the rest of menace’s posts after reading his first post.

Anyway:
I’d say you will be much more effective by dealing much more damage if you switch your build a little bit to this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArdWl0zqqHVTmGb9IxJFMf5oeodw/dSKaNqB-jUCBYjCi0fQUEAEBgJfFRjtsuIasqaER1abYGcFRrWKgFlGB-w

Though I also ran some sort of build like this, it can have a higher dps when fighting 50+ man blobs, but will never be better than the standard shatter build in GvG’s.

what are your thoughts on replacing Illusionary Persona with Blinding Beffudlement? to stack a bit more blinds and cause Confusion in effect. Especially if you take Dazzling Glamours?

JKwervo.7852:

what are your thoughts on replacing Illusionary Persona with Blinding Beffudlement? to stack a bit more blinds and cause Confusion in effect. Especially if you take Dazzling Glamours?

Well, running in with the front line with chaos armor on spamming shatters cause probably many more confusion stacks than just 5 per glamour.
I could also post my old confusion build almost similar to the one I’ve just posted just above, though that build really requires skill. Maybe a bit too much skill for most people to even be effective.

Ah. I was just asking and curious is all. True, Shatters cause more confusion in general. I guess I was just trying to apply it to my gameplay, and I’m not really much of a shatterer. So I was just wondering how the 5 per glamour would work.

Like, after it hits 5, is that it? You don’t hit anymore, whereas if you shatter, you hit more?

Also, in regards to shattering, i find my illusions to be all over the place. LOL, so I miss out on the initial burst.

I thought reflects were based on our own power, precision and crit damage? It’s why the Arah runners in the dungeon forum roll the 10/30/0/20/10 variant of the standard phantasm build for compounding power to give reflected projectiles 9%+ damage versus Lupicus.

colesy.8490:

I thought reflects were based on our own power, precision and crit damage? It’s why the Arah runners in the dungeon forum roll the 10/30/0/20/10 variant of the standard phantasm build for compounding power to give reflected projectiles 9%+ damage versus Lupicus.

I believe it ignores power, but not crit damage/% based boosts.

Not quite right – I believe reflects don’t use personal power or weapon damage (as seen by boss attacks doing boss-level reflected damage) – seems like it takes the base damage from the original projectile, and then uses the player’s damage multipliers, precision and crit-damage to determine the final damage.

A celestial build will still crit pretty hard when it does since celestial has almost-zerk level crit on most pieces. Given the crit food, oil, and accuracy/perception sigils this build should actually do pretty good for reflect damage — it’s pretty much a best-case scenario, since the significant loss of power from going zerk→celestial shouldn’t affect it at all.

Gotcha. Thanks Eoz for the clarification on the blind effect ICD.

bro, I know you are doing great now. I am sorry for messing up your clean thread yesterday. I want to somehow make it up. Anyway I can help you in other areas besides staying out of your way???