Guild Wars 2

We already have a mid range single target power weapon.

Scepter is a hybrid weapon, not power.

Overall hybrid is better as it allows greatest flexibility for the player to choose what stats they like to use with the weapon.

If I was able to do it, I’d make all weapons hybrid, or at least have skill options for power, condi or both allowing the player to decide how they want to use the weapon and not saying “you can only play this with a power build” etc.

I hate restricting weapons to either power or condi. It limits build possibilities.

Curunen.8729:

If I was able to do it, I’d make all weapons hybrid, or at least have skill options for power, condi or both allowing the player to decide how they want to use the weapon and not saying “you can only play this with a power build” etc.

I hate restricting weapons to either power or condi. It limits build possibilities.

Fully agreed on the limitation, but I’d go about it a different way: I’d remove stats on gear / items / runes / sigils.

The focus on conditions vs power then becomes a matter of class, trait and weapon design.
And as a result, maybe some classes are always about conditions. Or maybe not. Or some weapons are for conditions, some for power, some a mix. But you wouldn’t shut out part of them with your gear choice.

I think fewer weapons need to be hybrid actually, all it does is add to spam. Hybrid weapons allow you to deal huge power damage while also kittenting out tons of conditions. I don’t think you should be able to do both at the same time, period. It should be either or.

Perhaps it may seem convoluted at first, but a rather simple way to design hybrid weapons would be for them to be incredibly weak baseline, but scale very well with condition damage/expertise and power/ferocity.

Also, Reapers are currently going Greatsword and Viper stats, capitalizing on both power and conditions through Bitter Chill. I don’t necessarily see the issue with combining them, especially since Confusion remains a rather disadvantageous condition for PvE as is.

Malice.8439:

Perhaps it may seem convoluted at first, but a rather simple way to design hybrid weapons would be for them to be incredibly weak baseline, but scale very well with condition damage/expertise and power/ferocity.

That’s an admirable concept, but it’s simply not possible in GW2. There’s no such thing as “baseline strength” of a given skill. There’s no such thing as “base damage”. You can’t make any skill “scale better” with condition damage and expertise. If it applies conditions those conditions do their thing. If it deals damage, the skill coefficient does its thing. There’s no way to make it “baseline weak but scales well.” That’s simply not a concept that exists in GW2.

You can do it for power, by giving something a low base coefficient and a high scaling for power. However, that just encourages people to run builds with both power and condition damage (and expertise if they can squeeze it in).

draxynnic.3719:

You can do it for power, by giving something a low base coefficient and a high scaling for power. However, that just encourages people to run builds with both power and condition damage (and expertise if they can squeeze it in).

No you can’t, the damage calculation is weapon strength*power*coefficient of the skill including auto attacks/armour.

Skills do not have a basic damage number that factors into it, it is entirely a derived value.

Fay.2357:

Malice.8439:

Perhaps it may seem convoluted at first, but a rather simple way to design hybrid weapons would be for them to be incredibly weak baseline, but scale very well with condition damage/expertise and power/ferocity.

That’s an admirable concept, but it’s simply not possible in GW2. There’s no such thing as “baseline strength” of a given skill. There’s no such thing as “base damage”. You can’t make any skill “scale better” with condition damage and expertise. If it applies conditions those conditions do their thing. If it deals damage, the skill coefficient does its thing. There’s no way to make it “baseline weak but scales well.” That’s simply not a concept that exists in GW2.

You learn something new every day!

Fine. If you can’t manipulate the co-efficient, you can manipulate the application. A specialization could be designed to be mostly powerline based, but apply conditions through certain interactions and synergies in the talent tree. If I don’t misrecall, this is how Mesmers used to make use of conditions back in the day, by summong iDuelists with the Duelist’s Discipline and Sharper Images traits.

My point is, I don’t see any reason to clearly distinguish between whether a weapon needs to be condition or power. I believe hybrids weapons could work, as their playstyle may be fundamentally changed by choosing one trait over the other.

apharma.3741:

draxynnic.3719:

You can do it for power, by giving something a low base coefficient and a high scaling for power. However, that just encourages people to run builds with both power and condition damage (and expertise if they can squeeze it in).

No you can’t, the damage calculation is weapon strength*power*coefficient of the skill including auto attacks/armour.

Skills do not have a basic damage number that factors into it, it is entirely a derived value.

My experimentation seems to suggest otherwise.

If what you say is true, then dividing the damage of an attack by its power coefficient should consistently result in the same value.

Working through some mesmer auroattacks, using damage values from the hero panel (to avoid changes in power from switching weapons) and coefficients from the wiki:
Mind Slash: 346/0.7 = 494.`285714` (using ` marks to indicate repeating decimals)
Spatial Surge, minimum range: 267/0.54 = 494.`4`
Ether Bolt: 247/0.5 = 494
Winds of Chaos: 163/0.3 = 543.`3`

Sword, greatsword, and scepter are all within error of one another. Winds of Chaos, however, is noticeably different. Either the coefficient on the wiki is wrong (a coefficient of 0.33 would give the same figure as the other weapons) or there’s something else going on. Note that this seems to be an issue with the staff in general – all of the sword, greatsword, and scepter skills I tested this way came out the same, but with staff, the same test for the direct damage for Chaos Storm gives about 543 just like Winds of Chaos (which would require a coefficient of about 0.36 to bring into line with the other weapons).

Now, we know that healing skills have a level-dependent base value which is then added to by the power coefficient. This could be the same for damage skills. Of course, it’s entirely possible that for some skills, the base value is simply a flat 0, in which case for those skills it will be purely power coefficient.

Or the wiki could just have the wrong coefficients for staff. shrug

Hang on. If it’s a case of the wrong coefficient… then the figures should come out the same if I change my power by removing equipment.

With all my character’s equipment (apart from weapons – I didn’t have the inventory space to go that far) removed:
Winds of Chaos: 108/0.3 = 360
Chaos Storm: 118/0.33 = 357.`57`
Mind Slash: 229/0.7 = 327.`142857`
Spatial Surge: 177/0.54 = 327.`7’
Ether Bolt: 163/0.5 = 326

The error margin seems to be higher at the lower Power value, but the non-staff weapons seem to be getting 326-327, while the staff is getting around 360. Now, let’s try with the proposed corrected coefficients from previously:

Winds of Chaos: 108/0.33 = 327.`27`
Chaos Storm: 118/0.36 = 327.`7`

That looks like you’re probably correct after all – it is just the coefficient that matters, but the coefficients for Winds of Chaos and Chaos Storm on the wiki are wrong – they should each be 0.03 higher.

What?

Each weapon has a range on its weapon strength. For an ascended staff its 1,034 – 1,166, for lvl 80 exotic staffs its 985 – 1111.

As you can see, there’s quite a large range here, and a RNG picks a number in this range, then multiplies that number by your power and the skill coefficient in order to determine how much base damage a certain attack will deal. Then for the next attack it rerolls a new random number.

I know it won’t happen but if mesmar ever got a Longbow elite spec then I’d probably never stop playing it.

The game does, however, display a single damage number for skills rather than a range. I think what it does is show the damage from the middle of the range.

When you’re looking at skills from the hero screen, though, I think it assumes that each weapon will have the same damage range as the weapon you currently have equipped. Or, possibly more likely, it uses a common value rather than the value of any specific weapon (I’ve noticed, for instance, that the values from the hero screen tend to be less than from the skillbar).

The takeaway, though, is that it does seem to be a straight case of multiplying by power (as opposed to healing skills, which typically have a base value which is added to a multiple of healing power). At least for the skills I looked at. I think the damage from phantasm skills might have different rules, though.

draxynnic.3719:

The game does, however, display a single damage number for skills rather than a range. I think what it does is show the damage from the middle of the range.

When you’re looking at skills from the hero screen, though, I think it assumes that each weapon will have the same damage range as the weapon you currently have equipped. Or, possibly more likely, it uses a common value rather than the value of any specific weapon (I’ve noticed, for instance, that the values from the hero screen tend to be less than from the skillbar).

The takeaway, though, is that it does seem to be a straight case of multiplying by power (as opposed to healing skills, which typically have a base value which is added to a multiple of healing power). At least for the skills I looked at. I think the damage from phantasm skills might have different rules, though.

Phantasms use the exact same equation, just different weapons sometimes.

Carighan.6758:

Curunen.8729:

If I was able to do it, I’d make all weapons hybrid, or at least have skill options for power, condi or both allowing the player to decide how they want to use the weapon and not saying “you can only play this with a power build” etc.

I hate restricting weapons to either power or condi. It limits build possibilities.

Fully agreed on the limitation, but I’d go about it a different way: I’d remove stats on gear / items / runes / sigils.

The focus on conditions vs power then becomes a matter of class, trait and weapon design.
And as a result, maybe some classes are always about conditions. Or maybe not. Or some weapons are for conditions, some for power, some a mix. But you wouldn’t shut out part of them with your gear choice.

If they flat out removed stats I would be so happy

I won’t be buying the expac, ( if any, ) for a few months.

I bought HoT,(twice,) in advance. This time though, I’m going to wait a few months and see what kind of nerfs, reworks and giveaways to other classes happen.

What a thematic failure! Is it just me or does dagger makes much more sense for Mesmer? On launch I was shocked to see Mesmer wielding swords and great sword as opposed to daggers, but this is just to far (in the wrong direction). Daggers are associated with deception, and axes are associated with barbarity…which one sounds more like a Mesmer?

Williamt.9625:

What a thematic failure! Is it just me or does dagger makes much more sense for Mesmer? On launch I was shocked to see Mesmer wielding swords and great sword as opposed to daggers, but this is just to far (in the wrong direction). Daggers are associated with deception, and axes are associated with barbarity…which one sounds more like a Mesmer?

Not sure, I’ll get back to you once I see how it feels to have my clones and phantasms bash peoples heads in with an astralaria skin (which I have yet to make). XD

In all seriousness though, while I get the thematic trouble some might see, I always felt like mesmer was the confusing type of caster breaking all norms. Let them Elementalist and Necromancer pansies carry daggers, we’ll bash skulls in with sword and (hopefully soon) axe.

Cyninja.2954:

Williamt.9625:

What a thematic failure! Is it just me or does dagger makes much more sense for Mesmer? On launch I was shocked to see Mesmer wielding swords and great sword as opposed to daggers, but this is just to far (in the wrong direction). Daggers are associated with deception, and axes are associated with barbarity…which one sounds more like a Mesmer?

Not sure, I’ll get back to you once I see how it feels to have my clones and phantasms bash peoples heads in with an astralaria skin (which I have yet to make). XD

In all seriousness though, while I get the thematic trouble some might see, I always felt like mesmer was the confusing type of caster breaking all norms. Let them Elementalist and Necromancer pansies carry daggers, we’ll bash skulls in with sword and (hopefully soon) axe.

I know I enjoy Mesmer using their weapons in weird ways lol, however I do kinda wish the offhand sword were an offhand dagger so we’d have a more “fencery” style to Sword/Sword, because as it is it feels kinda weird…

Because of this my Mesmer uses a gigantic sword skin in their off hand and a smaller one in their main hand #screwlogicimamesmer

For anyone who knows of the Redwall novels and has read Marlfox, there were “magical” silver foxes as the main antagonists who used stealth and deception to become like shadows or illusions and whose trademark weapon was an axe. Sure that description could read more like a thief spec but I think it can equally apply to Mesmer.

In any case I think thematically axe makes perfect sense for this elite spec and also most of the axe skins in game are magical and elegant anyway. Dagger is so cliche I’m glad they didn’t go with that.

Finally I don’t give a kitten because I’ll finally be able to use Astralaria on a Mesmer – that’s reason enough to like it.

Curunen.8729:

For anyone who knows of the Redwall novels and has read Marlfox, there were “magical” silver foxes as the main antagonists who used stealth and deception to become like shadows or illusions and whose trademark weapon was an axe. Sure that description could read more like a thief spec but I think it can equally apply to Mesmer.

Well rumour is the new utility skills are deception skills.

Levetty.1279:

Curunen.8729:

For anyone who knows of the Redwall novels and has read Marlfox, there were “magical” silver foxes as the main antagonists who used stealth and deception to become like shadows or illusions and whose trademark weapon was an axe. Sure that description could read more like a thief spec but I think it can equally apply to Mesmer.

Well rumour is the new utility skills are deception skills.

Yeah I saw that and am really happy about it.

I think things like the current changes to active cast on phantasm skills in order to break stealth might be in preparation for balance if we end up getting at least one more stealth utility – otherwise I could imagine stealth uptime would be too much (especially in wvw) given our current stealth skills and things like PU – I can just see the whining on the forums from other classes, “permastealth mirage OP, nerf now!” and other annoying stuff people would post on here.

Well I suppose whining will happen one way or another as it’s mesmer.

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

Curunen.8729:

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

Since they gave up on Glamours (compared to Wells) and Manipulations (AT, Mimic) a while ago, I’ll just hope for the best. I really enjoy evasive Duelist-ish gameplay but we don’t really have the appropriate utilities to properly do so.

Xaylin.1860:

Curunen.8729:

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

Since they gave up on Glamours (compared to Wells) and Manipulations (AT, Mimic) a while ago, I’ll just hope for the best. I really enjoy evasive Duelist-ish gameplay but we don’t really have the appropriate utilities to properly do so.

I imagine a few of our current utilities will be made redundant, or be superceded by superior utilities with mirage.

Though I don’t think anything will ever be as good as blink or decoy – those things remain in a level all of their own.

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

I agree, I think stealth in the entire game needs clipping down substantially. I’d rather mesmer did more clone swapping, something you actually imagine a mesmer or fighting a mesmer to be like. Where you CC and hit with a burst attack only for it to splinter as it was an illusion that the mesmer switched places with.

apharma.3741:

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

I agree, I think stealth in the entire game needs clipping down substantially. I’d rather mesmer did more clone swapping, something you actually imagine a mesmer or fighting a mesmer to be like. Where you CC and hit with a burst attack only for it to splinter as it was an illusion that the mesmer switched places with.

I’d like to see some moving around of skill types between specialisations – for example things like Time Warp ought to be Chrono exclusive, things like Veil Mirage exclusive, and things like swapping positions with illusions base mesmer specific.

Just an example but I’d rather those core features of mesmer be actual core features of base mesmer so Mirage isn’t used as another band aid for stuff we don’t have but should have, just like Chrono was.

Curunen.8729:

apharma.3741:

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

I hope we don’t get another stealth utility. In every game that has had it, stealth has annoyed me because its never balanced. Its either worthless crap, or its overpowered as kitten. GW2 leans heavily towards the later, even though recently they have been trying to scale that back.

I’d also rather not have excessive stealth, but thematically deception, blurring and stealth fit the theme of a mirage.

I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.

I agree, I think stealth in the entire game needs clipping down substantially. I’d rather mesmer did more clone swapping, something you actually imagine a mesmer or fighting a mesmer to be like. Where you CC and hit with a burst attack only for it to splinter as it was an illusion that the mesmer switched places with.

I’d like to see some moving around of skill types between specialisations – for example things like Time Warp ought to be Chrono exclusive, things like Veil Mirage exclusive, and things like swapping positions with illusions base mesmer specific.

Just an example but I’d rather those core features of mesmer be actual core features of base mesmer so Mirage isn’t used as another band aid for stuff we don’t have but should have, just like Chrono was.

I think the last balance patch in some ways gave a lot of people hope that Arena Net is open to the possibility of simply redesigning skills and aspects of classes that don’t fit or cause a lot of problems. While I agree time warp is a lot more thematic with chrono I doubt that they will switch a core skill with an elite spec skill.

Maybe in time (no pun intended) when we get more elite specs and Arena Net has the opportunity to really get a handle on what an elite spec does, how and it’s theme we might see big overhauls to classes to better align skills.

The last balance patch definitely showed that Anet is willing to redesign skills and even, to a lesser extent, entire weapons on some classes. But at the slow rate of balance patches I don’t think it will mean much honestly. Unless patches start coming monthly, it will still take several years to even have a hope of touching all of the underused skills/traits of any class, which is not acceptable

Another p/p mesmer in the latest trailer. :o

DaShi.1368:

Another p/p mesmer in the latest trailer. :o

That is not a mesmer, especialy since it would not be using both weapons to shot(remember that you can have something else in offhand).

But there are infact 2 illusions with bows in their hands, right before the necromancer swings his greatsword.

http://imgur.com/9BA4agZ

https://youtu.be/z_VNG6N2evU?t=59s
If you set it to 0.25 speed it’s a lot easier to catch.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

http://imgur.com/a/t84mx

Again. I can’t parse the sentences you wrote, or understand why are you linking to a necromancer. I don’t know how to reply to you.

Ok let’s write this the long way.

1. A mesmer would not be using 2 pistols to execute any skill, since offhand can be different. Meaning that you can have torch, focus or sword instead of a pistol in your offhand. Unless ofc, ANet gives mesmer skill 3 similar to thief. Also that purple splash on screen seems to be in the background.

2. Here is my suggestion as to what mesmer reveal was in this trailer.
If you look at the background of the necromancer, you can see 2 phantasms that are apparently using bows, which suggest a npc that is using those 2 phantasms or it’s part of new elite specialization for mesmer and since all phantasms use weapons they were summoned from, that would suggest mesmer is getting eather a longbow or a shortbow.

Links are there as proof.

If you don’t understand me now, you are eather trolling me or are blind drunk.

SloRules.3560:

Ok let’s write this the long way.

1. A mesmer would not be using 2 pistols to execute any skill, since offhand can be different. Meaning that you can have torch, focus or sword instead of a pistol in your offhand. Unless ofc, ANet gives mesmer skill 3 similar to thief. Also that purple splash on screen seems to be in the background.

1. We’ve seen p/p mesmers already in game. I’m just pointing out that there is another one in the trailer.
2. That doesn’t disprove anything. You’re a making things up. In fact, you are making a lot of assumptions about the game and about me.

I’ll never understand how people can’t just post something interesting without someone else spoiling for a fight.

could that prob be phantasms in the area? That have the orrian weapons

Levetty.1279:

Unfortunatly there only two Axe skins I like on Mesmer, bloodstone and Astralaria.

Well Kryta’s salvation and the beaded axe skins look pretty good too

Where’s the p/p mesmer? I just see two bow wielding phantasms.

SloRules.3560:

Ok let’s write this the long way.

1. A mesmer would not be using 2 pistols to execute any skill, since offhand can be different. Meaning that you can have torch, focus or sword instead of a pistol in your offhand. Unless ofc, ANet gives mesmer skill 3 similar to thief. Also that purple splash on screen seems to be in the background.

2. Here is my suggestion as to what mesmer reveal was in this trailer.
If you look at the background of the necromancer, you can see 2 phantasms that are apparently using bows, which suggest a npc that is using those 2 phantasms or it’s part of new elite specialization for mesmer and since all phantasms use weapons they were summoned from, that would suggest mesmer is getting eather a longbow or a shortbow.

Links are there as proof.

If you don’t understand me now, you are eather trolling me or are blind drunk.

Not sure what you are getting at, you do know that axe was already leaked as next mesmer weapon right?

Cyninja.2954:

SloRules.3560:

Ok let’s write this the long way.

1. A mesmer would not be using 2 pistols to execute any skill, since offhand can be different. Meaning that you can have torch, focus or sword instead of a pistol in your offhand. Unless ofc, ANet gives mesmer skill 3 similar to thief. Also that purple splash on screen seems to be in the background.

2. Here is my suggestion as to what mesmer reveal was in this trailer.
If you look at the background of the necromancer, you can see 2 phantasms that are apparently using bows, which suggest a npc that is using those 2 phantasms or it’s part of new elite specialization for mesmer and since all phantasms use weapons they were summoned from, that would suggest mesmer is getting eather a longbow or a shortbow.

Links are there as proof.

If you don’t understand me now, you are eather trolling me or are blind drunk.

Not sure what you are getting at, you do know that axe was already leaked as next mesmer weapon right?

What’s not to get the guy even bothered to provide everyone with links.

Someone stated that the latest trailer showed a P/P mesmer when in actuality it showed longbow mesmer phantasms. There is nothing that states were only getting one weapon with the expansion either so the two possiblities are that the Mesmer gets the longbow or the phantasms that come with axe would be longbow based. The focus mesmer already comes with axes and thus the precedent for different combinations already exists.

Doam.8305:

There is nothing that states were only getting one weapon with the expansion either

Ahahaha

Doam.8305:

the phantasms that come with axe would be longbow based.

Wat. Unless we get offhand axe, we’re not getting a new phantasm.

Totally with you on the comment on “might get two weapons”, Fay. I’ll be surprised if classes get one new weapon, nevermind two. :P

Classes are getting a new weapon so you shouldn’t be surprised.

Those look like clones not phantasms. Main hand axe, if following conventions, would only provide illusions of the axe wielding clone variety. However that picture looks like two clones with a bow so…
1) new weapon is bow not axe ( leaks have changed before)
2) conventions have changed for this elite spec
3) story npc mesmer doing npc things.
My bet would be on 3.

SloRules.3560:

all phantasms use weapons they were summoned from, that would suggest mesmer is getting eather a longbow or a shortbow.

Yes, just like focus summons axe phantasm and staff summons scepter phantasms. I dont see a problem as to why an axe shouldnt summon a bow phantas.

Only off-hands summoning phantasms is a good point as to why it couldn’t be possible. But then again this is a new elite spec which could dramatically change how illusions function and we have no idea what and how it will change what we know now.

I feel like we need a new phantas. Not getting a new phantas for a new mes elite would almost be like ranger not getting new pets. For me atleast.

Edit: Something worth noting aswell, with shield you could summon 2 phantas on one weaponset, so maybe mirage’s axe will feature a phantasm skill instead of clone so it adds up to 2 phantas on one weapon set again, combined with the off-hand.

Takashiro.8701:

Something worth noting aswell, with shield you could summon 2 phantas on one weaponset, so maybe mirage’s axe will feature a phantasm skill instead of clone so it adds up to 2 phantas on one weapon set again, combined with the off-hand.

Yeah, that reasoning makes zero sense.

you cant equip elite soec weapons outside of elite soecs sadly